Boundaries assessment update 2023

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Western Fairfax and do not know the neighborhoods in Mt Vernon area well.

Some questions:
would redistricting keep neighborhoods together or divide them?
would it result in split feeders?
From looking at the maps, it appears that W Potomac lines are reasonable. But, I don't know all the caveats.

How many Mt Vernon kids are pp at West Potomac or other nearby schools for AP?

I would suggest by getting rid of IB at Mt Vernon sooner rather than later. Go from there. But, as long as it is IB, people will have an "out."

The largest group leaving MVHS is military and FCPS has a policy of letting them choose high schools. As many go to west Springfield as westpo. The boundaries make sense, but you could move Ft Hunt and Waynewood to MVHS and the boundaries would still make sense. All that would do is flip the farms percentages and then people would be upset about West Potomac being high farms. Both schools are high farms and you aren’t going to create to schools with rates the county finds acceptable unless you involve more schools and that doesn’t make geographic sense

The other reality is - the "wealthy" part of Mount Vernon is not nearly as large as the wealthy part of West Po. Housing values are significantly cheaper in the Mount Vernon pyramid - I have a 1960's colonial (3 finished levels) in Mount Vernon with a 2 car garage on a 1/4 acre lot. You put my house in Ft. Hunt and it is probably ate least $200K more expensive. So what happens is families move to the Mount Vernon area with the intention of NEVER sending their children to public school. They are spending less on a better house and using that savings to send their children to private schools. I don't know how long it takes housing values to readjust but its definitely not overnight and changing MVHS from IB to AP is not going to be a magically bring back the private school families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Western Fairfax and do not know the neighborhoods in Mt Vernon area well.

Some questions:
would redistricting keep neighborhoods together or divide them?
would it result in split feeders?
From looking at the maps, it appears that W Potomac lines are reasonable. But, I don't know all the caveats.

How many Mt Vernon kids are pp at West Potomac or other nearby schools for AP?

I would suggest by getting rid of IB at Mt Vernon sooner rather than later. Go from there. But, as long as it is IB, people will have an "out."

The largest group leaving MVHS is military and FCPS has a policy of letting them choose high schools. As many go to west Springfield as westpo. The boundaries make sense, but you could move Ft Hunt and Waynewood to MVHS and the boundaries would still make sense. All that would do is flip the farms percentages and then people would be upset about West Potomac being high farms. Both schools are high farms and you aren’t going to create to schools with rates the county finds acceptable unless you involve more schools and that doesn’t make geographic sense

The other reality is - the "wealthy" part of Mount Vernon is not nearly as large as the wealthy part of West Po. Housing values are significantly cheaper in the Mount Vernon pyramid - I have a 1960's colonial (3 finished levels) in Mount Vernon with a 2 car garage on a 1/4 acre lot. You put my house in Ft. Hunt and it is probably ate least $200K more expensive. So what happens is families move to the Mount Vernon area with the intention of NEVER sending their children to public school. They are spending less on a better house and using that savings to send their children to private schools. I don't know how long it takes housing values to readjust but its definitely not overnight and changing MVHS from IB to AP is not going to be a magically bring back the private school families.

This, exactly. I own in the Mount Vernon pyramid. My house is larger and on more land than the vast majority of the West Po pyramid, but I paid $300k less. While we’ll stay in public for elementary and maybe middle, that $300k we saved is going towards private high at the rate things are going now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The largest group leaving MVHS is military and FCPS has a policy of letting them choose high schools. As many go to west Springfield as westpo. The boundaries make sense, but you could move Ft Hunt and Waynewood to MVHS and the boundaries would still make sense. All that would do is flip the farms percentages and then people would be upset about West Potomac being high farms. Both schools are high farms and you aren’t going to create to schools with rates the county finds acceptable unless you involve more schools and that doesn’t make geographic sense

Am I missing something here?
I sure wish you would explain that they get to choose high schools. Most military rent or purchase--unless they live on post. They go to school in their own boundaries. Far more FCPS military kids live off post than on.

I think we can safely assume that it is only the peoole living on base that can switch, not military renting in Burke or Alexandria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The largest group leaving MVHS is military and FCPS has a policy of letting them choose high schools. As many go to west Springfield as westpo. The boundaries make sense, but you could move Ft Hunt and Waynewood to MVHS and the boundaries would still make sense. All that would do is flip the farms percentages and then people would be upset about West Potomac being high farms. Both schools are high farms and you aren’t going to create to schools with rates the county finds acceptable unless you involve more schools and that doesn’t make geographic sense

Am I missing something here?
I sure wish you would explain that they get to choose high schools. Most military rent or purchase--unless they live on post. They go to school in their own boundaries. Far more FCPS military kids live off post than on.

Military students who live off post go to the school they are zoned for. But there is some DOD rule that students who live on post can transfer to another school with no reason necessary. I'm not sure of the specifics, but many Fort Belvoir students transfer to Hayfield under this policy.

Maybe it is because Mount Vernon has IB. Any FCPS student has the right to transfer for that.

I think it is military specific, not IB/AP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, there are likely not too many high school students who actually live in military housing. In the military, the families tend to have younger kids. I taught in DOD schools. The elementary schools were much, much larger than the high schools on Army posts generally--unless there are several elementary schools on post. In my elementary school there were six first grades and three sixth grades and there . Military members are more likely to retire as kids reach high school age.

I've no idea how many high school students live on Fort Belvoir. My guess would be 300 or so at most. There are 2000 housing units. Most would likely have younger children.

We lived on a base with lots of higher ranking folks living on base, way more than Ft. Belvoir, that had its own high school.

I think 300 high school students would be an over estimate for Belvoir.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Hunt Valley/Orange Hunt/WSHS thing would be easy. 1) cut off HV south of the parkway and send those kids to Newington Forest. That gets them out of the WSHS pyramid entirely since Newington Forest goes to South County. Which is probably about the same distance as WSHS for those kids.

2) change overcrowded OH boundaries to send some kids to now under capacity HV. The schools are physically quite close to one another so you have plenty of options. Also in that area, a not insignificant number of families would elect to stay at OH for the German immersion program so you could likely pick up a larger section of OH’s current boundaries than you might think.

3) if possible, fix the Rolling Valley split feeder and send all the kids to Irving/WSHS if there is still capacity at WSHS.

Now OH and HV aren’t bursting at the seams and we’ve even done a little to fix overenrollment at WSHS. And no one is getting bussed down the parkway to the other side of 95 to do it.

We're at RVES (Irving and WSHS) and it really stinks that Rolling Valley is a split feeder, because most years it's only about 10% of the class that goes to Key/Lee. I wish they would change it either way - either have those kids go to Irving/WSHS or change them to a different elementary school, like Saratoga, with more student who go to Key/Lee. But those few kids aren't really going to make a difference at either school.

How about fixing the Rolling Valley split feeder by sending the RV (split) students to Saratoga? They already go to Key and Lewis. Those split students will ride a bus to elementary school regardless if they are at RV or Saratoga. And Saratoga is close and has plenty of room. You can fix it at the lower level instead of the higher level.

Rolling valley inside the parkway should stay at WSHS.

They are within walking distance of WSHS.

They are the 2nd closet elementary after Cardinal Forest to WSHS.

No rezoning should involve moving any houses from walkable to a bus ride.

None of the kids zoned to RV, Key, and Lewis are within walking distance of West Springfield HS. At least not a practical day after day walk. That is the very south end of the RV boundary. Many probably don't even walk to RV. Sure, you could walk to WSHS, but no parent is going to let that happen every day.

I don't actually expect the county to rezone those kids to Saratoga, just pointing out there is another way to close the split feeder.

I wouldn't be surprised if they do close the split feeder by moving those RV kids to WSHS. And further reducing the catchment area for Lewis. Why would they stop screwing Lewis now?

All of the people zoned for Rolling Valley elementary between OKM and Rolling Rd inside the parkway can walk to WSHS. The Rolling Valley neighborhood is very close to WSHS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, there are likely not too many high school students who actually live in military housing. In the military, the families tend to have younger kids. I taught in DOD schools. The elementary schools were much, much larger than the high schools on Army posts generally--unless there are several elementary schools on post. In my elementary school there were six first grades and three sixth grades and there . Military members are more likely to retire as kids reach high school age.

I've no idea how many high school students live on Fort Belvoir. My guess would be 300 or so at most. There are 2000 housing units. Most would likely have younger children.

We lived on a base with lots of higher ranking folks living on base, way more than Ft. Belvoir, that had its own high school.

I think 300 high school students would be an over estimate for Belvoir.

I am the PP who guessed 300. I was being generous--I agree with you. The post where I taught was composed mostly of lower ranking soldiers. The high school drew from 2 elementary schools. One elementary was quite large. I think there were less than 300--and that included middle school and high school This was overseas and the families had no other option but to send their kids there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Western Fairfax and do not know the neighborhoods in Mt Vernon area well.

Some questions:
would redistricting keep neighborhoods together or divide them?
would it result in split feeders?
From looking at the maps, it appears that W Potomac lines are reasonable. But, I don't know all the caveats.

How many Mt Vernon kids are pp at West Potomac or other nearby schools for AP?

I would suggest by getting rid of IB at Mt Vernon sooner rather than later. Go from there. But, as long as it is IB, people will have an "out."

The largest group leaving MVHS is military and FCPS has a policy of letting them choose high schools. As many go to west Springfield as westpo. The boundaries make sense, but you could move Ft Hunt and Waynewood to MVHS and the boundaries would still make sense. All that would do is flip the farms percentages and then people would be upset about West Potomac being high farms. Both schools are high farms and you aren’t going to create to schools with rates the county finds acceptable unless you involve more schools and that doesn’t make geographic sense

The other reality is - the "wealthy" part of Mount Vernon is not nearly as large as the wealthy part of West Po. Housing values are significantly cheaper in the Mount Vernon pyramid - I have a 1960's colonial (3 finished levels) in Mount Vernon with a 2 car garage on a 1/4 acre lot. You put my house in Ft. Hunt and it is probably ate least $200K more expensive. So what happens is families move to the Mount Vernon area with the intention of NEVER sending their children to public school. They are spending less on a better house and using that savings to send their children to private schools. I don't know how long it takes housing values to readjust but its definitely not overnight and changing MVHS from IB to AP is not going to be a magically bring back the private school families.

There aren’t any private schools down there.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think the assertion that wealthier people won’t send their kids to MVHS now is a reason not to focus on improving the school by reverting to AP and reassigning part of West Potomac there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the assertion that wealthier people won’t send their kids to MVHS now is a reason not to focus on improving the school by reverting to AP and reassigning part of West Potomac there.

What part of West Potomac are you reassigning and how are balancing the increase in farms at West Po? You can easily reassign schools in Ft Hunt, but all that does is flip the farms rates at the two schools. Unless you take some of the low income housing along Rt 1 and push it to Hayfield, then you are just deciding which school between MVHS and WestPo is the high poverty and which one is the very high poverty. I guess it's a great debate for the rest of the county since it pulls attention away from the schools with negligible farms rates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the assertion that wealthier people won’t send their kids to MVHS now is a reason not to focus on improving the school by reverting to AP and reassigning part of West Potomac there.

+1

Has it occurred to anyone that, just maybe, the people zoned to Mt Vernon really do prefer AP? That may be the real reason that people switch to other schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Western Fairfax and do not know the neighborhoods in Mt Vernon area well.

Some questions:
would redistricting keep neighborhoods together or divide them?
would it result in split feeders?
From looking at the maps, it appears that W Potomac lines are reasonable. But, I don't know all the caveats.

How many Mt Vernon kids are pp at West Potomac or other nearby schools for AP?

I would suggest by getting rid of IB at Mt Vernon sooner rather than later. Go from there. But, as long as it is IB, people will have an "out."

The largest group leaving MVHS is military and FCPS has a policy of letting them choose high schools. As many go to west Springfield as westpo. The boundaries make sense, but you could move Ft Hunt and Waynewood to MVHS and the boundaries would still make sense. All that would do is flip the farms percentages and then people would be upset about West Potomac being high farms. Both schools are high farms and you aren’t going to create to schools with rates the county finds acceptable unless you involve more schools and that doesn’t make geographic sense

The other reality is - the "wealthy" part of Mount Vernon is not nearly as large as the wealthy part of West Po. Housing values are significantly cheaper in the Mount Vernon pyramid - I have a 1960's colonial (3 finished levels) in Mount Vernon with a 2 car garage on a 1/4 acre lot. You put my house in Ft. Hunt and it is probably ate least $200K more expensive. So what happens is families move to the Mount Vernon area with the intention of NEVER sending their children to public school. They are spending less on a better house and using that savings to send their children to private schools. I don't know how long it takes housing values to readjust but its definitely not overnight and changing MVHS from IB to AP is not going to be a magically bring back the private school families.

There aren’t any private schools down there.

Alexandria has plenty. Middle class families there send their kids to St Louis and Immanuel Lutheran

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the assertion that wealthier people won’t send their kids to MVHS now is a reason not to focus on improving the school by reverting to AP and reassigning part of West Potomac there.

What part of West Potomac are you reassigning and how are balancing the increase in farms at West Po? You can easily reassign schools in Ft Hunt, but all that does is flip the farms rates at the two schools. Unless you take some of the low income housing along Rt 1 and push it to Hayfield, then you are just deciding which school between MVHS and WestPo is the high poverty and which one is the very high poverty. I guess it's a great debate for the rest of the county since it pulls attention away from the schools with negligible farms rates

I don’t think the argument that we take actions to improve Mount Vernon because Langley is 3% FARMS holds up either. This was a manageable situation that Democrats like Karen Corbett Sanders made worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the assertion that wealthier people won’t send their kids to MVHS now is a reason not to focus on improving the school by reverting to AP and reassigning part of West Potomac there.

What part of West Potomac are you reassigning and how are balancing the increase in farms at West Po? You can easily reassign schools in Ft Hunt, but all that does is flip the farms rates at the two schools. Unless you take some of the low income housing along Rt 1 and push it to Hayfield, then you are just deciding which school between MVHS and WestPo is the high poverty and which one is the very high poverty. I guess it's a great debate for the rest of the county since it pulls attention away from the schools with negligible farms rates

I don’t think the argument that we take actions to improve Mount Vernon because Langley is 3% FARMS holds up either. This was a manageable situation that Democrats like Karen Corbett Sanders made worse.

How is it manageable? Even if you ignore capacity, any shifting of boundaries results in one high farms and one very high farms school. Shift a couple of Ft Hunt schools to MVHS and MVHS's new farms rate becomes WestPo's current rate WestPo becomes what MVHS is now and then people are complaining about how we need to fix WestPo. You cant take a school with a 57% farms rate and use a school with a 40% farms rate to fix it. No one talks about including Hayfield with a 28% farms rate because that just makes three failing schools instead of two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the assertion that wealthier people won’t send their kids to MVHS now is a reason not to focus on improving the school by reverting to AP and reassigning part of West Potomac there.

What part of West Potomac are you reassigning and how are balancing the increase in farms at West Po? You can easily reassign schools in Ft Hunt, but all that does is flip the farms rates at the two schools. Unless you take some of the low income housing along Rt 1 and push it to Hayfield, then you are just deciding which school between MVHS and WestPo is the high poverty and which one is the very high poverty. I guess it's a great debate for the rest of the county since it pulls attention away from the schools with negligible farms rates

I don’t think the argument that we take actions to improve Mount Vernon because Langley is 3% FARMS holds up either. This was a manageable situation that Democrats like Karen Corbett Sanders made worse.

How is it manageable? Even if you ignore capacity, any shifting of boundaries results in one high farms and one very high farms school. Shift a couple of Ft Hunt schools to MVHS and MVHS's new farms rate becomes WestPo's current rate WestPo becomes what MVHS is now and then people are complaining about how we need to fix WestPo. You cant take a school with a 57% farms rate and use a school with a 40% farms rate to fix it. No one talks about including Hayfield with a 28% farms rate because that just makes three failing schools instead of two.

I understand the challenges of teaching kids who live in poverty. I spent four years teaching kids who came from extreme poverty. However, boundary changes will not fix that. The only thing that will fix that is attention to the kids who need it and good, solid instruction.
Changing boundaries will not fix the problem. It just spreads it around.

What is the purpose of a school system? I think it is to educate every child to the best of their ability.

I've posted this before: my educational policy is to determine where the child is academically and then push and pull them as far as possible.

This means you expose them to instruction at a higher level, while working with them where they are. It does not mean throwing them into challenging classes with no support.