Pendente Lite Guideline vs Actual Spousal Support (in VA) -- How did it compare in your case? SAHM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes at this thread. Never get married fellas!

Yikes at this thread. Never give up your job to stay home, ladies! You need to look out for number one.

Well, the problem is, the SAHM role does not get enough respect. Think of the myriad jobs a SAHM does and consider all the people you hire to replace what a SAHM does. I sometimes feel as though the feminist movement eliminated SAHM as a choice for women in that the concept of alimony seems to have gone away. IMO this role should be a viable option for a man or a woman and it should be protected under the law. A woman or man dosesn't stay home with the kids without the consent of the other partner. That was a choice that partner also made, and the consequences of one partner out of the workforce should not be a burden only that one person has to bear.

People always say this. How you you say it with a straight face, when SAHMs get alimony, while WOHMs (who statistically do many of the things SAHMs do, while also working) get nothing?

Exactly. Once the child is in school what's the purpose of a woman staying home all day? To cook and clean? I don't get it, it just sounds like pure laziness to me. It's all good until the husband leaves or wants a divorce and then they complain about not having a career. Smh.

I've written this before and been shouted at here. I've been a single dad for nearly a decade. Daily cooking and cleaning with teenagers around is at most 90 minutes a day, probably less. Might have to catch up a bit on the weekend with some laundry or vacuuming. No maid or cook in my home, or grocery delivery or lawn service.

There is no way. What do you kids do? Just eat the same food and clothes? Do they do sports or other activities with uniforms? Do you order food already packaged? Laundry alone takes me about 60 minutes a day. Maybe it's not just me, but it takes 60 minutes of actual work. Gathering the clothes, running the wash, running the dryer, folding, and putting away. 60 minutes easily 1 load. Meals another 45 minutes between food prep serving, and cleaning up. Plus time to eat and shop.

Different PP single dad. No way in hell does laundry take 60 minutes a day. Are you standing there watching the clothes tumble in the dryer like Rain Man or something? Each bedroom has a laundry basket, you take it to the washing machine and put them in, that's a couple of minutes tops. Less than a minute to put them in the dryer. Then five minutes to put them away (if it's a teenager they should do this not you). I don't even run a laundry load every day, two kids and I don't generate that many dirty clothes. And yes both my kids do sports.

I cook meals for everyone and that might take 15 minutes per meal.

Do vacuuming and dusting and yard work on the weekends.

This is not an "8 hour a day full-time job".

If you spend 15 minutes on a meal, you’re not a great cook. Sure, you can feed people, but it’s not going to be unimpressive.
If you’re a sahm, kids are there ALL day- which means, you don’t just vacuum and clean on weekends (or you’re a slob).
It’s never 5 minutes to fold and put away for a family of 4. I’ve timed it many times. More like 45 minutes just for 4. Teens can do it themselves, but most women are not sahm of just 2 teens- and if they are, they’ve put in years of pregnancy and childcare while you were bolstering your career.

But most sahm I know don’t spend most of their time on household chores. They are reading to kids, tutoring, chauffeuring to multiple activities, teaching children to cook/clean/garden, enforcing rules, TALKING (emotionally supporting) the children, taking them to playgrounds and play dates, doing all errands -grocery store 1 and 2, dry cleaners, car maintenance, dentist apps, doctor apps, etc.

My impression of men who aren’t impressed with their sahm? THEY are disconnected and lazy fathers.

Yes, they are. After my divorce I went to office. My exH refused to drive children around for activities: chess was dropped, online math classes dropped, swim team dropped; summer hikes and family fishing trips dropped. Kids are whole day on screens when on their 50% at dad's house.

When my teens are at my place, I try to take them to gym in the evenings on free passes, biking, we cook together and they know NY Times recipes, they garden, paint fence, change locks and even cemented the brick chimney on the roof under my supervision.

I bet these "single dads" are just the same: their kids are left for the day with screens, end of parenting.

It goes both ways. My husband's ex left to be with her AP. She got child support, alimony, military retirement and AP income (as he refused to pay child support). Kids were in no activities and had to fend for themselves as Dad did most of the activities/even coached. She refused to even do basics like braces as she had to pay 1/2 with the child support and she thought Dad should pay (but even when he offered, and he couldn't afford it she refused to drive the kids).

Your message is confusing: AP declined to pay whose child support?

She might have refused to pay because CS is usually never sufficient to cover 50% of activities. It doesn't cover even 50% of mortage in my case and mortgage is considered "children expense" by the rules

AP did not pay his child support to his ex who lived in poverty for many years. She got plenty to pay for kids needs. Child support is not supposed to pay half your mortgage. That is a lifestyle choice. Your kids are not roommates.

[Anonymous]

Original poster here:

Please, PLEASE, could people answer the questions I originally posted? I'm asking because this information is very important to me. I'm in a difficult situation and am curious where other people in similar situations ended up.

I would appreciate it if people would only post from here on out if answering those questions, rather than going off on tangents.

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes at this thread. Never get married fellas!

Yikes at this thread. Never give up your job to stay home, ladies! You need to look out for number one.

Well, the problem is, the SAHM role does not get enough respect. Think of the myriad jobs a SAHM does and consider all the people you hire to replace what a SAHM does. I sometimes feel as though the feminist movement eliminated SAHM as a choice for women in that the concept of alimony seems to have gone away. IMO this role should be a viable option for a man or a woman and it should be protected under the law. A woman or man dosesn't stay home with the kids without the consent of the other partner. That was a choice that partner also made, and the consequences of one partner out of the workforce should not be a burden only that one person has to bear.

People always say this. How you you say it with a straight face, when SAHMs get alimony, while WOHMs (who statistically do many of the things SAHMs do, while also working) get nothing?

Exactly. Once the child is in school what's the purpose of a woman staying home all day? To cook and clean? I don't get it, it just sounds like pure laziness to me. It's all good until the husband leaves or wants a divorce and then they complain about not having a career. Smh.

I've written this before and been shouted at here. I've been a single dad for nearly a decade. Daily cooking and cleaning with teenagers around is at most 90 minutes a day, probably less. Might have to catch up a bit on the weekend with some laundry or vacuuming. No maid or cook in my home, or grocery delivery or lawn service.

There is no way. What do you kids do? Just eat the same food and clothes? Do they do sports or other activities with uniforms? Do you order food already packaged? Laundry alone takes me about 60 minutes a day. Maybe it's not just me, but it takes 60 minutes of actual work. Gathering the clothes, running the wash, running the dryer, folding, and putting away. 60 minutes easily 1 load. Meals another 45 minutes between food prep serving, and cleaning up. Plus time to eat and shop.

Different PP single dad. No way in hell does laundry take 60 minutes a day. Are you standing there watching the clothes tumble in the dryer like Rain Man or something? Each bedroom has a laundry basket, you take it to the washing machine and put them in, that's a couple of minutes tops. Less than a minute to put them in the dryer. Then five minutes to put them away (if it's a teenager they should do this not you). I don't even run a laundry load every day, two kids and I don't generate that many dirty clothes. And yes both my kids do sports.

I cook meals for everyone and that might take 15 minutes per meal.

Do vacuuming and dusting and yard work on the weekends.

This is not an "8 hour a day full-time job".

If you spend 15 minutes on a meal, you’re not a great cook. Sure, you can feed people, but it’s not going to be unimpressive.
If you’re a sahm, kids are there ALL day- which means, you don’t just vacuum and clean on weekends (or you’re a slob).
It’s never 5 minutes to fold and put away for a family of 4. I’ve timed it many times. More like 45 minutes just for 4. Teens can do it themselves, but most women are not sahm of just 2 teens- and if they are, they’ve put in years of pregnancy and childcare while you were bolstering your career.

But most sahm I know don’t spend most of their time on household chores. They are reading to kids, tutoring, chauffeuring to multiple activities, teaching children to cook/clean/garden, enforcing rules, TALKING (emotionally supporting) the children, taking them to playgrounds and play dates, doing all errands -grocery store 1 and 2, dry cleaners, car maintenance, dentist apps, doctor apps, etc.

My impression of men who aren’t impressed with their sahm? THEY are disconnected and lazy fathers.

Yes, they are. After my divorce I went to office. My exH refused to drive children around for activities: chess was dropped, online math classes dropped, swim team dropped; summer hikes and family fishing trips dropped. Kids are whole day on screens when on their 50% at dad's house.

When my teens are at my place, I try to take them to gym in the evenings on free passes, biking, we cook together and they know NY Times recipes, they garden, paint fence, change locks and even cemented the brick chimney on the roof under my supervision.

I bet these "single dads" are just the same: their kids are left for the day with screens, end of parenting.

It goes both ways. My husband's ex left to be with her AP. She got child support, alimony, military retirement and AP income (as he refused to pay child support). Kids were in no activities and had to fend for themselves as Dad did most of the activities/even coached. She refused to even do basics like braces as she had to pay 1/2 with the child support and she thought Dad should pay (but even when he offered, and he couldn't afford it she refused to drive the kids).

Your message is confusing: AP declined to pay whose child support?

She might have refused to pay because CS is usually never sufficient to cover 50% of activities. It doesn't cover even 50% of mortage in my case and mortgage is considered "children expense" by the rules

AP did not pay his child support to his ex who lived in poverty for many years. She got plenty to pay for kids needs. Child support is not supposed to pay half your mortgage. That is a lifestyle choice. Your kids are not roommates.

Actually, you are wrong: housing expenses are accounted for in the CS. If your husband's exW agreed to a lower amount than she would be otherwise responsible by court in settlement, then it's obvious why she's not paying for extra curricular. Her AP's CS obligations are irrelevant here

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Original poster here:

Please, PLEASE, could people answer the questions I originally posted? I'm asking because this information is very important to me. I'm in a difficult situation and am curious where other people in similar situations ended up.

I would appreciate it if people would only post from here on out if answering those questions, rather than going off on tangents.

Thank you.

We don't know your state, the living situation (share one roof or live separately from spouse), children needs, legal fees needs etc. Nobody can give you an estimate vs your lawyer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Original poster here:

Please, PLEASE, could people answer the questions I originally posted? I'm asking because this information is very important to me. I'm in a difficult situation and am curious where other people in similar situations ended up.

I would appreciate it if people would only post from here on out if answering those questions, rather than going off on tangents.

Thank you.

No one can answer it. It depends on his income, what state you live in, etc. You need to talk to a lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes at this thread. Never get married fellas!

Yikes at this thread. Never give up your job to stay home, ladies! You need to look out for number one.

Well, the problem is, the SAHM role does not get enough respect. Think of the myriad jobs a SAHM does and consider all the people you hire to replace what a SAHM does. I sometimes feel as though the feminist movement eliminated SAHM as a choice for women in that the concept of alimony seems to have gone away. IMO this role should be a viable option for a man or a woman and it should be protected under the law. A woman or man dosesn't stay home with the kids without the consent of the other partner. That was a choice that partner also made, and the consequences of one partner out of the workforce should not be a burden only that one person has to bear.

People always say this. How you you say it with a straight face, when SAHMs get alimony, while WOHMs (who statistically do many of the things SAHMs do, while also working) get nothing?

Exactly. Once the child is in school what's the purpose of a woman staying home all day? To cook and clean? I don't get it, it just sounds like pure laziness to me. It's all good until the husband leaves or wants a divorce and then they complain about not having a career. Smh.

You know, most children come home at 2 or 3pm from school: are they supposed to play video games or not do any after school activities? Most jobs require overtime, including low paying. And it's hard to go back into job market after employment gap. But in general as a SAHM who worked part time I agree there is no point to stay at home 100%

To me it's much more enjoyable to be in the office now vs being SAHM. And WAY easier. Particular when there are several kids each with their own interests and after school activities and you feel like a free driver without any life of your own

Yes, I do know. I am a working mother. My son never got out of school at 2pm, and he was in an aftercare program when his school day was done. I adjusted my work schedule so that I could pick him up every day while he was in elementary school. I never had an employment gap, my ex-husband and I both worked. I couldn't imagine just being home all day not working or engaging with other people. Where is the fulfillment in that?

If you have kids in travel sports you can't just offload them in daycare. I was engaging with coaches, other parents when I had to be around for my child's training after school. But it's what both of us agreed and a luxury for most

Travel sports as you say are a luxury, and most of us would agree an unnecessary one. But why on earth did you see "engaging with coaches and other parents" a viable use of your time? It wasn't as important as you thought it was. It would have been smarter for you to stay engaged in the workforce, or at the very least have some kind of needlepoint shop on Etsy or something.

Your condescending ass got owned in the next post, was amusing to see

[Anonymous]

Dear Virginia, it is now year 2022. Reform your archaic laws and eliminate all spousal support ... except for temporary rehabilitative support to help an unemployed spouse get back onto her feet.

Let no person get $$$ from an ex spouse ... who is no longer performing any of their former "spousal duties".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a dog in this fight but the oversimplification of a SAH parents roles is astonishing. they often take on school related volunteer roles, they handle all doctors, dentist, eye appointments, care for sick children, manage household appointments, deal with emergency household issues- and here is the kicker-; they do this largely so that the other parent can be totally dedicated to their career in a way that would not be possible otherwise. They also may take on this role because it’s better for the family not to live life at 1000 miles an hour.

OK - but I do all that and more, and I work full time, so I don't think it's vilification to say SAHM is not a full-time job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a dog in this fight but the oversimplification of a SAH parents roles is astonishing. they often take on school related volunteer roles, they handle all doctors, dentist, eye appointments, care for sick children, manage household appointments, deal with emergency household issues- and here is the kicker-; they do this largely so that the other parent can be totally dedicated to their career in a way that would not be possible otherwise. They also may take on this role because it’s better for the family not to live life at 1000 miles an hour.

OK - but I do all that and more, and I work full time, so I don't think it's vilification to say SAHM is not a full-time job.

Are you a guy? Do you think all guys can handle this working?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dear Virginia, it is now year 2022. Reform your archaic laws and eliminate all spousal support ... except for temporary rehabilitative support to help an unemployed spouse get back onto her feet.

Let no person get $$$ from an ex spouse ... who is no longer performing any of their former "spousal duties".

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes at this thread. Never get married fellas!

Yikes at this thread. Never give up your job to stay home, ladies! You need to look out for number one.

Well, the problem is, the SAHM role does not get enough respect. Think of the myriad jobs a SAHM does and consider all the people you hire to replace what a SAHM does. I sometimes feel as though the feminist movement eliminated SAHM as a choice for women in that the concept of alimony seems to have gone away. IMO this role should be a viable option for a man or a woman and it should be protected under the law. A woman or man dosesn't stay home with the kids without the consent of the other partner. That was a choice that partner also made, and the consequences of one partner out of the workforce should not be a burden only that one person has to bear.

People always say this. How you you say it with a straight face, when SAHMs get alimony, while WOHMs (who statistically do many of the things SAHMs do, while also working) get nothing?

Exactly. Once the child is in school what's the purpose of a woman staying home all day? To cook and clean? I don't get it, it just sounds like pure laziness to me. It's all good until the husband leaves or wants a divorce and then they complain about not having a career. Smh.

I've written this before and been shouted at here. I've been a single dad for nearly a decade. Daily cooking and cleaning with teenagers around is at most 90 minutes a day, probably less. Might have to catch up a bit on the weekend with some laundry or vacuuming. No maid or cook in my home, or grocery delivery or lawn service.

There is no way. What do you kids do? Just eat the same food and clothes? Do they do sports or other activities with uniforms? Do you order food already packaged? Laundry alone takes me about 60 minutes a day. Maybe it's not just me, but it takes 60 minutes of actual work. Gathering the clothes, running the wash, running the dryer, folding, and putting away. 60 minutes easily 1 load. Meals another 45 minutes between food prep serving, and cleaning up. Plus time to eat and shop.

Different PP single dad. No way in hell does laundry take 60 minutes a day. Are you standing there watching the clothes tumble in the dryer like Rain Man or something? Each bedroom has a laundry basket, you take it to the washing machine and put them in, that's a couple of minutes tops. Less than a minute to put them in the dryer. Then five minutes to put them away (if it's a teenager they should do this not you). I don't even run a laundry load every day, two kids and I don't generate that many dirty clothes. And yes both my kids do sports.

I cook meals for everyone and that might take 15 minutes per meal.

Do vacuuming and dusting and yard work on the weekends.

This is not an "8 hour a day full-time job".

If you spend 15 minutes on a meal, you’re not a great cook. Sure, you can feed people, but it’s not going to be unimpressive.
If you’re a sahm, kids are there ALL day- which means, you don’t just vacuum and clean on weekends (or you’re a slob).
It’s never 5 minutes to fold and put away for a family of 4. I’ve timed it many times. More like 45 minutes just for 4. Teens can do it themselves, but most women are not sahm of just 2 teens- and if they are, they’ve put in years of pregnancy and childcare while you were bolstering your career.

But most sahm I know don’t spend most of their time on household chores. They are reading to kids, tutoring, chauffeuring to multiple activities, teaching children to cook/clean/garden, enforcing rules, TALKING (emotionally supporting) the children, taking them to playgrounds and play dates, doing all errands -grocery store 1 and 2, dry cleaners, car maintenance, dentist apps, doctor apps, etc.

My impression of men who aren’t impressed with their sahm? THEY are disconnected and lazy fathers.

Yes, they are. After my divorce I went to office. My exH refused to drive children around for activities: chess was dropped, online math classes dropped, swim team dropped; summer hikes and family fishing trips dropped. Kids are whole day on screens when on their 50% at dad's house.

When my teens are at my place, I try to take them to gym in the evenings on free passes, biking, we cook together and they know NY Times recipes, they garden, paint fence, change locks and even cemented the brick chimney on the roof under my supervision.

I bet these "single dads" are just the same: their kids are left for the day with screens, end of parenting.

Lazy Father here. I do ALL the scheduling of kid doctor/dentist appointments, I take them to the appointments, I schedule all extracurriculars, pay for them, and take kids to them, I pay for summer camps and take kids to them, I cook for my kids and do their laundry, I help with homework and arrange tutors as necessary, in the evening I take them to the gym, and many other things besides. I fully expect that the entire college search and application process will be on me. The sole parenting activity my XW does is pick them up from school three days a week when school is in session. She refused to take kids to any extracurriculars, as her view was that since I had arranged the activity it was 100% my job to take the kids to it. If not for me, music lessons would certainly have been dropped. Kids are on their screens at mom's house, no active parenting. And oh by the way, I also work full time.

Crappy uninvolved parents come in both genders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stay at home mom. Married almost 20 years. Going through a divorce (2 kids).

Would very much appreciate your feedback or examples of how the spousal support you ended up with (via settlement or court) compared to the pendente lite guidelines (26% of payor's monthly gross income).

Did what you ended up with for spousal support exceed this, come in at right around the same amount, or fall below this? Also, if you feel comfortable sharing, how long did that spousal support last for what length marriage?

Thank you.

In many states (including virginia), 20 years is the magic number for lifetime alimony. Ending your marriage just before "almost" 20 years means you might get support for 10.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a dog in this fight but the oversimplification of a SAH parents roles is astonishing. they often take on school related volunteer roles, they handle all doctors, dentist, eye appointments, care for sick children, manage household appointments, deal with emergency household issues- and here is the kicker-; they do this largely so that the other parent can be totally dedicated to their career in a way that would not be possible otherwise. They also may take on this role because it’s better for the family not to live life at 1000 miles an hour.

OK - but I do all that and more, and I work full time, so I don't think it's vilification to say SAHM is not a full-time job.

Are you a guy? Do you think all guys can handle this working?

Yes I am a guy, and yes I think guys can handle all this stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Original poster here:

Please, PLEASE, could people answer the questions I originally posted? I'm asking because this information is very important to me. I'm in a difficult situation and am curious where other people in similar situations ended up.

I would appreciate it if people would only post from here on out if answering those questions, rather than going off on tangents.

Thank you.

Suffice it to say it's not going to be nearly as much as you expected or hoped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a dog in this fight but the oversimplification of a SAH parents roles is astonishing. they often take on school related volunteer roles, they handle all doctors, dentist, eye appointments, care for sick children, manage household appointments, deal with emergency household issues- and here is the kicker-; they do this largely so that the other parent can be totally dedicated to their career in a way that would not be possible otherwise. They also may take on this role because it’s better for the family not to live life at 1000 miles an hour.

OK - but I do all that and more, and I work full time, so I don't think it's vilification to say SAHM is not a full-time job.

Are you a guy? Do you think all guys can handle this working?

Yes I am a guy, and yes I think guys can handle all this stuff.

Well they can't. And centuries of life have shown this. It's not innate and our country would plummet if every guy did as much as the gals when it comes to parenting.