Banneker versus School Without Walls

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It’s about aptitude, not “genetic” aptitude. Brains have plasticity, which is why education, especially ECE, is important. And the fact that studying — learning more math and logic — can improve scores shows that skills are involved (and, I would argue, these same skills are useful in work and life).

Whether SATs predict college performance or whether it should be used for college admissions are different matters. But the idea that the SAT is all about “genetics” is absurd.

It's absurd if you are totally ignorant of the history of test. Once you learn that history, you will know that the SAT was explicitly and intentionally created by white supremacist and eugenicist Carl Bingham as a test of GENETIC aptitude (specifically in the context of claimed aptitude differences between races).

The Asian obsession over SATs is particularly ironic given that Bingham was staunchly anti-immigrant. There were no "good immigrants" in his estimation, even if his then targets were primarily Southern and Eastern Europeans

Breaking news!!! George Washington was a slave owner!!!

that's also important history to know even if better known than the racist roots of the SATs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It’s about aptitude, not “genetic” aptitude. Brains have plasticity, which is why education, especially ECE, is important. And the fact that studying — learning more math and logic — can improve scores shows that skills are involved (and, I would argue, these same skills are useful in work and life).

Whether SATs predict college performance or whether it should be used for college admissions are different matters. But the idea that the SAT is all about “genetics” is absurd.

It's absurd if you are totally ignorant of the history of test. Once you learn that history, you will know that the SAT was explicitly and intentionally created by white supremacist and eugenicist Carl Bingham as a test of GENETIC aptitude (specifically in the context of claimed aptitude differences between races).

The Asian obsession over SATs is particularly ironic given that Bingham was staunchly anti-immigrant. There were no "good immigrants" in his estimation, even if his then targets were primarily Southern and Eastern Europeans

Breaking news!!! George Washington was a slave owner!!!

that's also important history to know even if better known than the racist roots of the SATs

You probably want to return us to British rule because George Washington was a "racist."

You realize that Americans didn't invent standardized tests, right? They date back to the Han Dynasty (206 BC-220 AD) in China, when officials designed civil service exams to choose people to work in the government based on merit rather than on family status.

Standardized tests are a tool for evaluating kids using an objective, unbiased standard. Sure, they aren't perfect but they are less subjective than grades, recommendation letters, and the like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It’s about aptitude, not “genetic” aptitude. Brains have plasticity, which is why education, especially ECE, is important. And the fact that studying — learning more math and logic — can improve scores shows that skills are involved (and, I would argue, these same skills are useful in work and life).

Whether SATs predict college performance or whether it should be used for college admissions are different matters. But the idea that the SAT is all about “genetics” is absurd.

It's absurd if you are totally ignorant of the history of test. Once you learn that history, you will know that the SAT was explicitly and intentionally created by white supremacist and eugenicist Carl Bingham as a test of GENETIC aptitude (specifically in the context of claimed aptitude differences between races).

The Asian obsession over SATs is particularly ironic given that Bingham was staunchly anti-immigrant. There were no "good immigrants" in his estimation, even if his then targets were primarily Southern and Eastern Europeans

Breaking news!!! George Washington was a slave owner!!!

that's also important history to know even if better known than the racist roots of the SATs

You probably want to return us to British rule because George Washington was a "racist."

You realize that Americans didn't invent standardized tests, right? They date back to the Han Dynasty (206 BC-220 AD) in China, when officials designed civil service exams to choose people to work in the government based on merit rather than on family status.

Standardized tests are a tool for evaluating kids using an objective, unbiased standard. Sure, they aren't perfect but they are less subjective than grades, recommendation letters, and the like.

You’re excellent at hyperbolic and stupid assumptions.

[Anonymous]

I am a standardized test whiz, always have been, but to me there always seemed to be an acculturation aspect to them. Like reading between the lines to figure out tough questions seems like an in-crowd thing.

My own sense of my own intelligence vs. my success on tests makes me doubt them. (I'm intuitive about tests, not the great learner my test scores would point towards, though it's taken a long time into adulthood to finally adjust to this reality.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It’s about aptitude, not “genetic” aptitude. Brains have plasticity, which is why education, especially ECE, is important. And the fact that studying — learning more math and logic — can improve scores shows that skills are involved (and, I would argue, these same skills are useful in work and life).

Whether SATs predict college performance or whether it should be used for college admissions are different matters. But the idea that the SAT is all about “genetics” is absurd.

It's absurd if you are totally ignorant of the history of test. Once you learn that history, you will know that the SAT was explicitly and intentionally created by white supremacist and eugenicist Carl Bingham as a test of GENETIC aptitude (specifically in the context of claimed aptitude differences between races).

The Asian obsession over SATs is particularly ironic given that Bingham was staunchly anti-immigrant. There were no "good immigrants" in his estimation, even if his then targets were primarily Southern and Eastern Europeans

Breaking news!!! George Washington was a slave owner!!!

that's also important history to know even if better known than the racist roots of the SATs

You probably want to return us to British rule because George Washington was a "racist."

You realize that Americans didn't invent standardized tests, right? They date back to the Han Dynasty (206 BC-220 AD) in China, when officials designed civil service exams to choose people to work in the government based on merit rather than on family status.

Standardized tests are a tool for evaluating kids using an objective, unbiased standard. Sure, they aren't perfect but they are less subjective than grades, recommendation letters, and the like.

Oh look, someone else who hasn't bothered to read the thread and the very, very long discussion about the differences between the SAT (designed to prove that non-whites and non-Nordic people were genetically inferior) and the standardized tests used all over the world which generally have less bias because they are content=specific and don't try to gauge "aptitude."

Can you guys PLEASE be less lazy and actually respond to the previous discussion rather than just ignorantly repeating "standardized tests are fine"?

[Anonymous]

Honestly, grow up. You've been try to shout down everybody who disagrees with you for ten pages now.

Arguably, the SAT does test content, what should be easy math and reading content for college-bound high school juniors and seniors. Many SAT takers need to go back to review algebra and geometry they took two, three even for years earlier to ensure that they can score high. SAT reading is pitched at around an 8th grade level.

Yet one Banneker booster after another comes here to holler that the test is racist, superfluous, outmoded, ossified and on its way out. What's the goal? To let DCPS off the hook in failing to prepare the Banneker students to ace what should be an eminently manageable test for the cream of the DCPS HS crop, at least where AA and Latino students are concerned. Frankly, BASIS' scores for AA kids put Banneker to shame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, grow up. You've been try to shout down everybody who disagrees with you for ten pages now.

Arguably, the SAT does test content, what should be easy math and reading content for college-bound high school juniors and seniors. Many SAT takers need to go back to review algebra and geometry they took two, three even for years earlier to ensure that they can score high. SAT reading is pitched at around an 8th grade level.

Yet one Banneker booster after another comes here to holler that the test is racist, superfluous, outmoded, ossified and on its way out. What's the goal? To let DCPS off the hook in failing to prepare the Banneker students to ace what should be an eminently manageable test for the cream of the DCPS HS crop, at least where AA and Latino students are concerned. Frankly, BASIS' scores for AA kids put Banneker to shame.

I know plenty of AA kids who rocked the SAT.

They did not go to DCPS.

DCPS is the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It’s about aptitude, not “genetic” aptitude. Brains have plasticity, which is why education, especially ECE, is important. And the fact that studying — learning more math and logic — can improve scores shows that skills are involved (and, I would argue, these same skills are useful in work and life).

Whether SATs predict college performance or whether it should be used for college admissions are different matters. But the idea that the SAT is all about “genetics” is absurd.

It's absurd if you are totally ignorant of the history of test. Once you learn that history, you will know that the SAT was explicitly and intentionally created by white supremacist and eugenicist Carl Bingham as a test of GENETIC aptitude (specifically in the context of claimed aptitude differences between races).

The Asian obsession over SATs is particularly ironic given that Bingham was staunchly anti-immigrant. There were no "good immigrants" in his estimation, even if his then targets were primarily Southern and Eastern Europeans

Breaking news!!! George Washington was a slave owner!!!

that's also important history to know even if better known than the racist roots of the SATs

You probably want to return us to British rule because George Washington was a "racist."

You realize that Americans didn't invent standardized tests, right? They date back to the Han Dynasty (206 BC-220 AD) in China, when officials designed civil service exams to choose people to work in the government based on merit rather than on family status.

Standardized tests are a tool for evaluating kids using an objective, unbiased standard. Sure, they aren't perfect but they are less subjective than grades, recommendation letters, and the like.

+1 Exactly!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, grow up. You've been try to shout down everybody who disagrees with you for ten pages now.

Arguably, the SAT does test content, what should be easy math and reading content for college-bound high school juniors and seniors. Many SAT takers need to go back to review algebra and geometry they took two, three even for years earlier to ensure that they can score high. SAT reading is pitched at around an 8th grade level.

Yet one Banneker booster after another comes here to holler that the test is racist, superfluous, outmoded, ossified and on its way out. What's the goal? To let DCPS off the hook in failing to prepare the Banneker students to ace what should be an eminently manageable test for the cream of the DCPS HS crop, at least where AA and Latino students are concerned. Frankly, BASIS' scores for AA kids put Banneker to shame.

I know plenty of AA kids who rocked the SAT.

They did not go to DCPS.

DCPS is the problem.

I know plenty of AA kids who did poorly on the SAT.

They do not go to DCPS.

Failed logic and anecdotes are useless at proving anything about DCPS’ ability to prepare students versus other school districts.

[Anonymous]

The low expectations in DCPS will never change and starts early at the elementary level. The Banneker boosters on here enable that low expectation to continue and calls everyone racist who criticizes anything about Banneker's low SAT and AP scores.

Also when parents evaluate a school and see the subpar scores for a test in school, heavy on homework with little extracurriculars, and choose not to go there, they are called racist too.

No wonder the charters are gaining more and more steam in attracting higher performing UMC kids. They don’t have to deal with the toxic BS everything is racist culture in DCPS.

Oh and yea, those charter parents are called racist too for leaving DCPS and low performing schools.

Let’s just say everything is racist and call it a day. Ironically, the ones that have the most to lose from this toxicity of racism are the lower SES kids that are left behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It’s about aptitude, not “genetic” aptitude. Brains have plasticity, which is why education, especially ECE, is important. And the fact that studying — learning more math and logic — can improve scores shows that skills are involved (and, I would argue, these same skills are useful in work and life).

Whether SATs predict college performance or whether it should be used for college admissions are different matters. But the idea that the SAT is all about “genetics” is absurd.

It's absurd if you are totally ignorant of the history of test. Once you learn that history, you will know that the SAT was explicitly and intentionally created by white supremacist and eugenicist Carl Bingham as a test of GENETIC aptitude (specifically in the context of claimed aptitude differences between races).

The Asian obsession over SATs is particularly ironic given that Bingham was staunchly anti-immigrant. There were no "good immigrants" in his estimation, even if his then targets were primarily Southern and Eastern Europeans

+1,000,000

Breaking news!!! George Washington was a slave owner!!!

that's also important history to know even if better known than the racist roots of the SATs

You probably want to return us to British rule because George Washington was a "racist."

You realize that Americans didn't invent standardized tests, right? They date back to the Han Dynasty (206 BC-220 AD) in China, when officials designed civil service exams to choose people to work in the government based on merit rather than on family status.

Standardized tests are a tool for evaluating kids using an objective, unbiased standard. Sure, they aren't perfect but they are less subjective than grades, recommendation letters, and the like.

+1 Exactly!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It’s about aptitude, not “genetic” aptitude. Brains have plasticity, which is why education, especially ECE, is important. And the fact that studying — learning more math and logic — can improve scores shows that skills are involved (and, I would argue, these same skills are useful in work and life).

Whether SATs predict college performance or whether it should be used for college admissions are different matters. But the idea that the SAT is all about “genetics” is absurd.

It's absurd if you are totally ignorant of the history of test. Once you learn that history, you will know that the SAT was explicitly and intentionally created by white supremacist and eugenicist Carl Bingham as a test of GENETIC aptitude (specifically in the context of claimed aptitude differences between races).

The Asian obsession over SATs is particularly ironic given that Bingham was staunchly anti-immigrant. There were no "good immigrants" in his estimation, even if his then targets were primarily Southern and Eastern Europeans

Breaking news!!! George Washington was a slave owner!!!

that's also important history to know even if better known than the racist roots of the SATs

You probably want to return us to British rule because George Washington was a "racist."

You realize that Americans didn't invent standardized tests, right? They date back to the Han Dynasty (206 BC-220 AD) in China, when officials designed civil service exams to choose people to work in the government based on merit rather than on family status.

Standardized tests are a tool for evaluating kids using an objective, unbiased standard. Sure, they aren't perfect but they are less subjective than grades, recommendation letters, and the like.

+1 Exactly!

+1,000,000

[Anonymous]

I used to volunteer at Banneker and I was blown away by the students. They were such amazing, hard working and intelligent kid. They were respectful and very motivated to serve in their community.

It's depressing that every time the school is mentioned on DCUM you see parents doing Olympics level mental gymnastics to defend why they don't want to send their children to a school. Just admit that you where their child would be an ethnic minority. There have been studies that white families have need at least 30 % of white students where they will feel comfortable sending their children to an ethnically mixed school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do, actually. I've volunteered at Banneker over a four-year period, at the invitation of science teachers I met through a STEM mentoring organization I'm involved with.

Sorry, but the SAT scores and AP scores coming out of Banneker speak for themselves.

If the average MATH SAT score really is in the high 400s, at least half of the students don't have a firm grasp of algebra or geometry, let alone trig and calc. They also lack the requisite vocabulary and analytical skills to handle elite college-level humanities studies. Wish things were different.

You volunteer at the school and turn around and trash the teaching?!

When you volunteer somewhere, you gain a little insight into how the place works. Over time, this New Yorker got fed up with lack of ambition for Banneker's upper echelon academically on the part of many adults in the building, at least where STEM education goes. The tyranny of low expectations wasn't hard to identify. Very different feel than Stuyvesant, Bronx Science and Hunter College MS/HS, where I've also volunteered. Lots of happy talk and drill at Banneker, but not enough joy of learning, healthy competition within the peer group, serious extra-curriculars, and aiming high to crack competitive colleges. It's more of a culture of "any 4-year program will do." I left unconvinced that admins and teachers do their utmost to impress the critical importance of scoring high on standardized tests on students. The concept clearly isn't integral to the school culture.

As the parent of a current student, I hope they found better volunteers this year.

Don’t shoot the messenger.

I think it’s terrible that you volunteer and then turn around and bad mouth the students and school.

DP. It seems like you're upset that PP is pointing out a real weakness of the school. It seems to me that Banneker should recognize and address this glaring weakness in order to better serve students. How is pointing that out "bad mouthing the students and school"?

My kid's SAT went up 300 points with tutoring. I'm sure that many kids at Banneker could have similar improvements, which would dramatically increase their college choices and merit aid awards. How is that bad?

The 80 or students that graduated last year had $50 million in aid, I think they’re doing fine.

So you are actually claiming that Banneker students received on average $625k in aid, or approximately twice the 4 year cost of the most expensive private schools? You seem to lack basic math skills.

I don’t lack math skills. You just lack first hand knowledge of Banneker. But PP above explained it to you (all aid offered vs aid accepted).

I DO lack first hand knowledge of Banneker. My kid’s high school choice was between Wilson, Walls and McKinley. Ended up at Wilson for sports.

That said, he wouldn’t have gotten into the college he’s attending if his SATs hadn’t improved. Do you doubt that Banneker kids would have an enormously greater range of options if their SATs were higher? That doesn’t make sense to me. Or are you arguing that schools that will take a kid with a 950 SAT are good enough for all Banneker kids?

What’s the argument against trying to improve Banneker kids’ scores? Do you believe it’s too difficult? Recent changes to the SAT have exacerbated it’s pro-wealth, pro-white bias, but I believe that kids of color CAN do well on the test.

I’m not arguing against them doing better on SATs. I would argue we need to scrap standardized college exams because it’s a waste of time. SATs are dumb. It’s one factor among others in evaluating a student. But truly, you only learn how a student does on standardized tests. They don’t reflect knowledge or potential, no matter what the college board argues. I became anti-standardized tests in graduate school. Foreign students must take the TOEFL (English language exam) to attend American universities. Every year GTA were assigned to a few grad student who had perfect (or close to perfect) scores. Only to have these students arrive on campus with zero abilities to speak or write English. Standardized tests are a game! Do I want my kid to waste learning time on how to take them? No, not really. But clearly there are those who only judge a school on those tests.

To be fair sometimes there is cheating on TOEFL and other standardized tests. It's not just test cramming culture

https://dailybruin.com/2019/05/13/the-toefl-cheating-scheme-a-college-admissions-scandal-you-didnt-hear-about

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to volunteer at Banneker and I was blown away by the students. They were such amazing, hard working and intelligent kid. They were respectful and very motivated to serve in their community.

It's depressing that every time the school is mentioned on DCUM you see parents doing Olympics level mental gymnastics to defend why they don't want to send their children to a school. Just admit that you where their child would be an ethnic minority. There have been studies that white families have need at least 30 % of white students where they will feel comfortable sending their children to an ethnically mixed school.

I think most people are arguing that it's not academically rigorous and appeals to lower performing (but academically inclined) minority students as an academic school because DCPS is pretty crappy overall.