ICE Shooting in Minneapolis

[Anonymous]

JD Vance has arrived in Minneapolis to fan the flames and make things worse.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

Failure to obey commands?
This is not a police state. ICE doesn’t have unfettered authority to issue commands. ICE’s task is to enforce immigration laws. That’s it.

The correct place to argue that is in court, not during a tense confrontation with federal agents in the middle of a street.

And again, the point here is that it’s legally relevant to determining reasonableness.

Ok, when will we see charges and the start of the investigation?

No idea, but an independent investigation is exactly what serious people should be demanding.

+1

Hennepin county, Minnesota is launching an independent investigation.
My question, is the body at Hennepin county coroners office? Or did IcE take that too?

ICE, DHS, and the FBI are surely in possession of most physical evidence, but if Hennepin County indicts, arrests, and puts the shooter on trial I would think it would be very difficult for them to continue to withhold evidence. That would have quite the impact on not only a possible indictment but also a criminal trial. A jury can take into consideration the withholding of relevant, admissible evidence when deciding the outcome of said trial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:JD Vance has arrived in Minneapolis to fan the flames and make things worse.

He's a moron. He should seek to look Presidential, but he's instead going to remind Independents why he's a non-starter in 2028.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:She literally said ‘I am not mad at you’ seconds before he blew her head off. How does that show she is ‘unhinged’

She said it in a very snide tone. But honestly, I think her wife is the once who escalated it and holds most of the responsibility. How stupid can you be to block in law enforcement and then belittle and insult them?

Hey, I'm a doctor, and I get a lot more than that in the ER many days. If someone spits in my face AND belittles and insults me, is it still professional for me to choke them out?

DP.

Nope, but if they do something that you reasonably believe imminently endangers your life, and you have no other option, you’re entitled to defend yourself.

Such as stepping backwards?

Moreover, if a patient has previously been abusive towards you, that obviously impacts a reasonable person’s assessment of what constitutes threatening behavior.

So while her actions prior to moving the car obviously do not independently justify the shooting, they actually are relevant to whether the shooting was justified.

You mean when she tells him, "I'm not mad at you?"

That’s part of it (pointing to fault on his part), but so is her partner’s hostility, her hostility, and her failure to obey their commands.

Exceptionally complex situation. Facts supporting both “sides”, as is usually the case IRL.

Failure to obey commands?
This is not a police state. ICE doesn’t have unfettered authority to issue commands. ICE’s task is to enforce immigration laws. That’s it.

The correct place to argue that is in court, not during a tense confrontation with federal agents in the middle of a street.

And again, the point here is that it’s legally relevant to determining reasonableness.

Ok, when will we see charges and the start of the investigation?

No idea, but an independent investigation is exactly what serious people should be demanding.

+1

Hennepin county, Minnesota is launching an independent investigation.
My question, is the body at Hennepin county coroners office? Or did IcE take that too?

ICE, DHS, and the FBI are surely in possession of most physical evidence, but if Hennepin County indicts, arrests, and puts the shooter on trial I would think it would be very difficult for them to continue to withhold evidence. That would have quite the impact on not only a possible indictment but also a criminal trial. A jury can take into consideration the withholding of relevant, admissible evidence when deciding the outcome of said trial.

I'm sure there'd be appeals, etc. to play it all out...but there should be enough on that video to get that all kicked off.

[Anonymous]

I am sorry if this has already been discussed, but have lawyers on the thread addressed whether this agent, or ICE or DHS more broadly, can be sued for wrongful death by Good's family?

Given what has happened with the criminal/administrative investigation into the shooting, I would assume her wife and parents are speaking to lawyers or will soon, to discuss the possibility of a lawsuit. I'm a lawyer but not a prosecutor or litigator so no idea what issues might be at play here, but if the Trump administration successfully gets away with a sham investigation/exoneration and keeps the state or city from any investigation or prosecution, I'd like to see a civil case because (1) Good's children deserve to be compensated for the murder of their mother for absolutely no reason, and (2) it would force this issue into the public eye and keep it there through discovery and proceedings.

Similar to E. Jean Caroll's lawsuit against Trump, it seems like a civil case might offer justice if our criminal and federal administrative avenues are corrupted in this case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If ICE Agent Ross's life was in danger from the vehicle as seen in this video, every teacher on car pool duty needs to file for hazard pay.

I've dinged people opening my dishwasher harder than he (possiby) was hit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry if this has already been discussed, but have lawyers on the thread addressed whether this agent, or ICE or DHS more broadly, can be sued for wrongful death by Good's family?

Given what has happened with the criminal/administrative investigation into the shooting, I would assume her wife and parents are speaking to lawyers or will soon, to discuss the possibility of a lawsuit. I'm a lawyer but not a prosecutor or litigator so no idea what issues might be at play here, but if the Trump administration successfully gets away with a sham investigation/exoneration and keeps the state or city from any investigation or prosecution, I'd like to see a civil case because (1) Good's children deserve to be compensated for the murder of their mother for absolutely no reason, and (2) it would force this issue into the public eye and keep it there through discovery and proceedings.

Similar to E. Jean Caroll's lawsuit against Trump, it seems like a civil case might offer justice if our criminal and federal administrative avenues are corrupted in this case.

It’s unclear.
But this seems like a dream case for a lawyer. Also, the family has been quiet which indicates that they are already being advised by counsel to save it all for the trial(s).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

If ICE Agent Ross's life was in danger from the vehicle as seen in this video, every teacher on car pool duty needs to file for hazard pay.

I've dinged people opening my dishwasher harder than he (possiby) was hit

It's what makes the defense of Jonathan Ross so clownish. Hundreds of people will dodge more dangerous cars in the grocery store parking lot today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:JD Vance has arrived in Minneapolis to fan the flames and make things worse.

He's a moron. He should seek to look Presidential, but he's instead going to remind Independents why he's a non-starter in 2028.

lol…the VP is showing up to support a murderer?

Seems pretty desperate.

I thought that he was supposed to be the smart(er) one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:JD Vance has arrived in Minneapolis to fan the flames and make things worse.

Link? I can’t find it anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Watching the cell phone video from the killer's phone, I was struck how this horrible incident is illustrative of Margaret Atwood's declaration that "Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."

Renee Good was a military widow, and probably had a certain confidence in law enforcement that prevented her from being sufficiently fearful of the rageful misogynists approaching her vehicle with guns strapped on.

By the way if you look at all the videos available, you can clearly see that Jon Ross is unholstering his firearm in preparation to point it at Renee Good well before she even moves her vehicle - he escalated the situation far beyond what was appropriate under use of force guidelines and in violation of DHS policy in a number of ways including placing himself in front of her vehicle and creating any harm to himself that existed.

His "f* ckin' b* tch" after executing her with three shots point blank to her head is the full evidence of his rageful misogyny.

It's going to be interesting to see how the administration's attempt to coverup this murder plays out, but for those of us who are seasoned law enforcement officers and who haven't lost our minds to the MAGA cult, it's very obvious this was a extrajudicial killing in violation of all the norms of law enforcement training and procedure.

As an aside, there are lots of MAGAs on the internet citing her car's rapid acceleration as evidence that she intended to use it as a weapon to harm officers. As a former law enforcement officer myself with too much sad experience of death, I'd just like to clarify that her vehicle sped up like that because after bullets traveled through her brain and caused massive damage/death, her body experienced decerebrate/decorticate posturing, which caused her foot to stamp down on the gas pedal and sped up the vehicle until it met an obstacle that could stop it.

I'm a doctor. Thank you for this, and thank you for your service.

This is exactly why shooting the driver of a vehicle is not a defensive, self-protective act, but why jumping back would be. Anyone trained in these situations knows this. It is reflected in the LEO policy of exactly NOT doing this, and specifically not to engage in officer-created exigency to try to set this up as justified.

This was extra-judicial killing. The "f**king b***h" was the cherry on top that underscores it.

[Anonymous]

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I don't care if they were Jeffrey Dahmer and any other mass murderer you can think of. Cops shouldn't shoot fleeing suspects.

It isn’t just she was trying to flee. One cop had an arm in her car and another was in front of her car when “drive, drive!” is yelled and she tries to take off. You can’t safely move your car when someone has an arm inside your car door and another person is a foot from your front bumper

So she should be more concerned for the safety of masked, armed carjackers than her own?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The news media has moved on from this story. The NYT has absolutely nothing about the shooting or ICE activities in the United States anywhere on its home page.

They have however had bits about their fawning interview with Trump for three days straight.

It’s still the top story on WaPo, Politico, CNN, MS Now, and NBC News, just to name a few. NYT is the only one completely pushing it off the front page, probably because they’re sad no one cares about their drip drip stories from the 2 hr interview with Trump.

An NBC article about Ross was the top story in my feed.

There will be vigils all over the country this weekend. There will be more violence from ICE. This issue is not going away. Trump is done. It’s just a question of how many more American deaths we’ll have.

How many of these ICE agent are going to let the tears go when they are sentenced and realize that they are headed into prison?

[Anonymous]

A poem for a poet 💔

BLOOD IN THE SNOW

They will terrorise you
And call you a terrorist
They will threaten you
And call you a threat
There is blood in the snow
Where her life drained out
Is America great again yet?

~ Sarah Daly

[Anonymous]

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I think MAGA is coming to understand that none of the attempted spins are working.

+1

The more they try, the more pathetic they appear.

+ a million