Walls admissions article in the Post

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A FOIA request may get some info. But I'm pretty sure the attorneys will get involved. Pretty naive to think that you can just submit a request involving a DCPS school and they'll just give it to you just because. If the desire to get things to be more transparent, starting with the DC Council and local media is probably more a sure bet. None of them like bad publicity. Can request FOIA in tandeem...

Pretty naive to assume that DCPS staff attorneys won't screw it up wildly and end up getting ripped a new one once it gets before a judge. That tends to be what happens whenever DC government lawyers make decisions that end up in court.

To my knowledge, DCPS has a general counsel that uses outside resources so there's that....different ballgame

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A FOIA request may get some info. But I'm pretty sure the attorneys will get involved. Pretty naive to think that you can just submit a request involving a DCPS school and they'll just give it to you just because. If the desire to get things to be more transparent, starting with the DC Council and local media is probably more a sure bet. None of them like bad publicity. Can request FOIA in tandeem...

Pretty naive to assume that DCPS staff attorneys won't screw it up wildly and end up getting ripped a new one once it gets before a judge. That tends to be what happens whenever DC government lawyers make decisions that end up in court.

To my knowledge, DCPS has a general counsel that uses outside resources so there's that....different ballgame

Only if they are anticipating something being high profile beforehand. Whether or not a foia request pertaining to someone's kid's Walls application sets off the appropriate alarm bells is debatable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A FOIA request may get some info. But I'm pretty sure the attorneys will get involved. Pretty naive to think that you can just submit a request involving a DCPS school and they'll just give it to you just because. If the desire to get things to be more transparent, starting with the DC Council and local media is probably more a sure bet. None of them like bad publicity. Can request FOIA in tandeem...

Pretty naive to assume that DCPS staff attorneys won't screw it up wildly and end up getting ripped a new one once it gets before a judge. That tends to be what happens whenever DC government lawyers make decisions that end up in court.

To my knowledge, DCPS has a general counsel that uses outside resources so there's that....different ballgame

Only if they are anticipating something being high profile beforehand. Whether or not a foia request pertaining to someone's kid's Walls application sets off the appropriate alarm bells is debatable.

In my experience, all the requests are reviewed by attorneys. A school system is extra cautious because of student data. No one wants to be that person....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A FOIA request may get some info. But I'm pretty sure the attorneys will get involved. Pretty naive to think that you can just submit a request involving a DCPS school and they'll just give it to you just because. If the desire to get things to be more transparent, starting with the DC Council and local media is probably more a sure bet. None of them like bad publicity. Can request FOIA in tandeem...

Pretty naive to assume that DCPS staff attorneys won't screw it up wildly and end up getting ripped a new one once it gets before a judge. That tends to be what happens whenever DC government lawyers make decisions that end up in court.

To my knowledge, DCPS has a general counsel that uses outside resources so there's that....different ballgame

Only if they are anticipating something being high profile beforehand. Whether or not a foia request pertaining to someone's kid's Walls application sets off the appropriate alarm bells is debatable.

In my experience, all the requests are reviewed by attorneys. A school system is extra cautious because of student data. No one wants to be that person....

Sure, but a review by a DCPS staff attorney is very different from PP mentioning outside counsel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Similar experience (though my slightly less high-flying DC was in geometry not Algebra 2 and didn't get admitted to quite as many privates, though some). FWIW, I have heard rumors that Walls prefers to not take too many advanced math students--they see themselves as a "humanities" school. Whatever, DC reads voraciously and actually loves ELA and history far more than math...and if they had spent more than 3 minutes with her in the interview, they would have known this. But I wonder if they see the higher math tracks as some sort of flag and those kids have a harder time getting in.

Geometry was once a sticking point because Walls included some questions on the entrance exam but not every MS feeder offered Geometry and thus some candidates were at a disadvantage unless they learned it independently of school or the school offered it as an elective supplement. Not many MS even offer Algebra 2 so that's definitely beyond anything a Walls test would cover.

The mediocre students at above private schools start younger. By HS admission process they can get more selective. The mediocre students never leave.

The geometry on the entrance exam was from the 8th grade common core standards. If 8th grade teachers didn’t teach the standards that is not Walls’ fault. But this rumor that geometry was on the test just out of the blue is nonsense. The test was an 8th grade test. 8th grade includes several strand of math including probability, number sense and basic geometry.

You missed the point. It's not that it was "out of the blue" (weird that you read that but whatever). Geometry may be included in 8th grade curriculum but in DCPS schools without a substantial cohort it was often not taught as a practical matter. Highly motivated students in these schools could get exposure through other avenues (mind you this is pre- Kahn Academy) but it put them at a greater disadvantage than kids who were exposed through math curriculum at their MS. Geometry isn't a high bar but it was a bar that could ding some students on the test. Guess who got dinged most?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Similar experience (though my slightly less high-flying DC was in geometry not Algebra 2 and didn't get admitted to quite as many privates, though some). FWIW, I have heard rumors that Walls prefers to not take too many advanced math students--they see themselves as a "humanities" school. Whatever, DC reads voraciously and actually loves ELA and history far more than math...and if they had spent more than 3 minutes with her in the interview, they would have known this. But I wonder if they see the higher math tracks as some sort of flag and those kids have a harder time getting in.

Geometry was once a sticking point because Walls included some questions on the entrance exam but not every MS feeder offered Geometry and thus some candidates were at a disadvantage unless they learned it independently of school or the school offered it as an elective supplement. Not many MS even offer Algebra 2 so that's definitely beyond anything a Walls test would cover.

The mediocre students at above private schools start younger. By HS admission process they can get more selective. The mediocre students never leave.

Speaking of math and admissions: On a Walls zoom call earlier this year, I pressed school staff as to why the admissions test had been scrapped. They replied that it was because students in Wards 7 and 8 were not generally able to excel at the math problems, since access to advanced math training is lacking in those wards.

So instead of providing that training to Ward 7 and 8 students (which would be true equity), DCPS's solution is to get rid of the admissions test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCPS doesn’t want an entrance exam for Walls. The administration at the school is not strong and therefore does not push back on anything DCPS wants. So there will not be an entrance exam again. If you want one, start with pressuring DCPS. They ultimately control that decision.

This has been my experience too as a Walls parent. It seems that the chancellor fired the previous, string-willed principal in favor of a well-meaning but ultimately compliant acting principal to rubber-stamp his decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS doesn’t want an entrance exam for Walls. The administration at the school is not strong and therefore does not push back on anything DCPS wants. So there will not be an entrance exam again. If you want one, start with pressuring DCPS. They ultimately control that decision.

This has been my experience too as a Walls parent. It seems that the chancellor fired the previous, string-willed principal in favor of a well-meaning but ultimately compliant acting principal to rubber-stamp his decisions.

DCPS doesn't want to be FCPS where their premier (at least by academics) school has no kids from poorer wards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Similar experience (though my slightly less high-flying DC was in geometry not Algebra 2 and didn't get admitted to quite as many privates, though some). FWIW, I have heard rumors that Walls prefers to not take too many advanced math students--they see themselves as a "humanities" school. Whatever, DC reads voraciously and actually loves ELA and history far more than math...and if they had spent more than 3 minutes with her in the interview, they would have known this. But I wonder if they see the higher math tracks as some sort of flag and those kids have a harder time getting in.

Geometry was once a sticking point because Walls included some questions on the entrance exam but not every MS feeder offered Geometry and thus some candidates were at a disadvantage unless they learned it independently of school or the school offered it as an elective supplement. Not many MS even offer Algebra 2 so that's definitely beyond anything a Walls test would cover.

The mediocre students at above private schools start younger. By HS admission process they can get more selective. The mediocre students never leave.

Speaking of math and admissions: On a Walls zoom call earlier this year, I pressed school staff as to why the admissions test had been scrapped. They replied that it was because students in Wards 7 and 8 were not generally able to excel at the math problems, since access to advanced math training is lacking in those wards.

So instead of providing that training to Ward 7 and 8 students (which would be true equity), DCPS's solution is to get rid of the admissions test.

No issue with Walls creating equity carve outs, but they should get it right for all the non-equity seats, which is currently the vast majority of the school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Similar experience (though my slightly less high-flying DC was in geometry not Algebra 2 and didn't get admitted to quite as many privates, though some). FWIW, I have heard rumors that Walls prefers to not take too many advanced math students--they see themselves as a "humanities" school. Whatever, DC reads voraciously and actually loves ELA and history far more than math...and if they had spent more than 3 minutes with her in the interview, they would have known this. But I wonder if they see the higher math tracks as some sort of flag and those kids have a harder time getting in.

Geometry was once a sticking point because Walls included some questions on the entrance exam but not every MS feeder offered Geometry and thus some candidates were at a disadvantage unless they learned it independently of school or the school offered it as an elective supplement. Not many MS even offer Algebra 2 so that's definitely beyond anything a Walls test would cover.

The mediocre students at above private schools start younger. By HS admission process they can get more selective. The mediocre students never leave.

Speaking of math and admissions: On a Walls zoom call earlier this year, I pressed school staff as to why the admissions test had been scrapped. They replied that it was because students in Wards 7 and 8 were not generally able to excel at the math problems, since access to advanced math training is lacking in those wards.

So instead of providing that training to Ward 7 and 8 students (which would be true equity), DCPS's solution is to get rid of the admissions test.

Doesn't appear the test even matters in regard to students from Ward 7 and 8. It's simply far to get from those locations to SWW. It's even tricky from some parts of Ward 4.

It makes more sense to test everyone and have clusters around the city. I know you get the whole "school within a school" argument. But I'd take that versus a bad commute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who they did enroll this year is more mediocre white students. I know smart kids who got in but also straight B students who don't care about school and who would have never made the top 250 kids in a typical year. Then some of the highest achievers at Deal did not get in because for whatever reason their 2 minute interview did not stand out.

Really "straight B"? got into walls, this cannot be correct because they would not have made the interviews with that GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who they did enroll this year is more mediocre white students. I know smart kids who got in but also straight B students who don't care about school and who would have never made the top 250 kids in a typical year. Then some of the highest achievers at Deal did not get in because for whatever reason their 2 minute interview did not stand out.

Really "straight B"? got into walls, this cannot be correct because they would not have made the interviews with that GPA.

+1

Can we stop pretending we know other kids’ 7th grade GPAs and grades? You clearly do not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Similar experience (though my slightly less high-flying DC was in geometry not Algebra 2 and didn't get admitted to quite as many privates, though some). FWIW, I have heard rumors that Walls prefers to not take too many advanced math students--they see themselves as a "humanities" school. Whatever, DC reads voraciously and actually loves ELA and history far more than math...and if they had spent more than 3 minutes with her in the interview, they would have known this. But I wonder if they see the higher math tracks as some sort of flag and those kids have a harder time getting in.

Geometry was once a sticking point because Walls included some questions on the entrance exam but not every MS feeder offered Geometry and thus some candidates were at a disadvantage unless they learned it independently of school or the school offered it as an elective supplement. Not many MS even offer Algebra 2 so that's definitely beyond anything a Walls test would cover.

The mediocre students at above private schools start younger. By HS admission process they can get more selective. The mediocre students never leave.

Speaking of math and admissions: On a Walls zoom call earlier this year, I pressed school staff as to why the admissions test had been scrapped. They replied that it was because students in Wards 7 and 8 were not generally able to excel at the math problems, since access to advanced math training is lacking in those wards.

So instead of providing that training to Ward 7 and 8 students (which would be true equity), DCPS's solution is to get rid of the admissions test.

Doesn't appear the test even matters in regard to students from Ward 7 and 8. It's simply far to get from those locations to SWW. It's even tricky from some parts of Ward 4.

It makes more sense to test everyone and have clusters around the city. I know you get the whole "school within a school" argument. But I'd take that versus a bad commute.

Agree. It is ridiculous to expect — or even wish — that any school in DC would draw equally across the city. Bad commutes = bad quality of life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM won’t like my post, but I am a teacher who does the interviews. I’m not defending two questions or three minutes or whatever, but I can tell you that after 10 years of being at the school, it is possible to see within ten minutes who is a good fit. Parent interview portion does not factor into the score except to help students who appear to have strong family support. However, with gpa inflation the past two years due to WS plus the ban on getting parcc scores plus random charter schools who have weird report cards, it is very difficult to assess candidates, honestly.

I would support an application ranking system with no interview, just lottery of qualified students. I hate interview days and would rather be teaching.

Thanks. What written records are available? What kind of information could we get with a FOIA request?

This was posted earlier. Basically:

Keep your request simple. Ask for all "records" that contain:
- the formal process by which Walls candidates were ranked
- all guidance for interviewers on how questions they were to ask and how they were to rate candidates
- all records that provides training for interviewers
- all records that provides the weighting for interviews vs GPA and how candidates are ranked in the event of a tie.
Also ask for an example of the interview matrix or rubric that is used for each interview.

There are some exceptions for what has to be disclosed but this is the type of information that has to be released because it's of public interest. If it exists, they will have to provide it. It is likely it doesn't exist and it will show it was capricious.

Thanks, but I asking the SWW teacher who is part of the process, not you.

That's not how publicly disclosable information works. This is why FOIA exists

Huh? You must be new to DCUM. This is an anonymous blog where people disclose information all the time.

Feel free to file your FOIA request and pay applicable fees to DC for searching, reviewing, and reproducing records.

Feel free to ignore the previous poster who, for some reason, is opposed to the public getting information on Walls selection process. The facts are:

1. There is no fee to file a FOIA request.
2. There is usually no fee for the first two hours of research or the first 100 pages of records...
3. If there is going to be a fee, you will be notified and you can narrow your search BUT you can request a waiver if the request is in the public interest ( (which this most definitely is).
"Under the FOIA, fee waivers are limited to situations in which a requester can show that the disclosure of the requested information is in the public interest because it is likely to contribute significantly to public understanding of the operations and activities of the government and is not primarily in the commercial interest of the requester."

Free free to ignore this poster who is citing to federal FOIA law, which applies only to federal agencies.

This is governed by § 2–532 of the DC Code. The relevant section states:

(b) A public body may establish and collect fees not to exceed the actual cost of searching for, reviewing, redacting, and making copies of records. Documents may be furnished without charge or at a reduced charge where a public body determines that waiver or reduction of the fee is in the public interest because furnishing the information can be considered as primarily benefiting the general public.

In other words, the DCPS will determine if your request is primarily benefitting the general public and, if so, will then determine whether the documents will be furnished free or at a reduced charge.

Clearly, the fact that Larla was denied a spot at Walls after attaining a 4.0 GPA at Deal and acing her interview is a manifest injustice. Solving the mystery of her denial will greatly benefit the general public.

As a parent of a 7th grader whose kid hasn't been denied anything, I have an interest in understanding the process. Seems like anyone who is considering applying to Walls--even if it's not their first choice--would need to understand the process so you could understand the likelihood of getting in versus other schools.

The process is your kids applies and if their GPA is good enough then they get an interview. Lots of kids get interviews, not all of them get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This this board is anonymous I'll share that my 4.0 Deal kid in Algebra 2 last year was accepted to Sidwell, Potomac, St. Albans, GDS, Maret and the Scholar's program at St. Johns but not Walls. Quite a few of these schools had 9th grade acceptance rates around 5% last year (so we have since learned).
He was waitlisted at Walls. He is now doing extremely well at one of the privates. He's an outgoing kid, travel athlete who is now on a varsity team, national-level debater, and had 99% PARCC scores from 3rd grade on.
His Walls interview was literally 90 seconds long last year.

Similar experience (though my slightly less high-flying DC was in geometry not Algebra 2 and didn't get admitted to quite as many privates, though some). FWIW, I have heard rumors that Walls prefers to not take too many advanced math students--they see themselves as a "humanities" school. Whatever, DC reads voraciously and actually loves ELA and history far more than math...and if they had spent more than 3 minutes with her in the interview, they would have known this. But I wonder if they see the higher math tracks as some sort of flag and those kids have a harder time getting in.

Geometry was once a sticking point because Walls included some questions on the entrance exam but not every MS feeder offered Geometry and thus some candidates were at a disadvantage unless they learned it independently of school or the school offered it as an elective supplement. Not many MS even offer Algebra 2 so that's definitely beyond anything a Walls test would cover.

The mediocre students at above private schools start younger. By HS admission process they can get more selective. The mediocre students never leave.

The geometry on the entrance exam was from the 8th grade common core standards. If 8th grade teachers didn’t teach the standards that is not Walls’ fault. But this rumor that geometry was on the test just out of the blue is nonsense. The test was an 8th grade test. 8th grade includes several strand of math including probability, number sense and basic geometry.

You missed the point. It's not that it was "out of the blue" (weird that you read that but whatever). Geometry may be included in 8th grade curriculum but in DCPS schools without a substantial cohort it was often not taught as a practical matter. Highly motivated students in these schools could get exposure through other avenues (mind you this is pre- Kahn Academy) but it put them at a greater disadvantage than kids who were exposed through math curriculum at their MS. Geometry isn't a high bar but it was a bar that could ding some students on the test. Guess who got dinged most?

So Walls shouldn’t have written the 8th grade test using 8th grade standards? They should have just guessed what middle school teachers taught and chose not to teach that year? This seems to be really grasping at straws. You can have issues with admissions but this criticism seems like you just want to complain about everything.