Leaving DC for a lower COL area

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The top two hospitals in the United States are in Cleveland and Rochester, MN. #3 is in Baltimore, #5 is in Michigan, #11 is in St. Louis, #12 is in Phoenix, #14 is in Philadelphia, #15 is in Pittsburgh, #17 is in Nashville, and #19 is in Durham.

Whoever said lower COL areas have crappy hospitals has no idea what they are talking about.

Nice homes and good schools are hardly cheap in Phoenix, Philly, or Durham.

These are still real cities. Not that much cheaper, especially if you want decent neighborhoods

And if you're in a fairly niche field like finance, corporate law, or policy, you'll find a very limited number of opportunities in Phoenix and Durham. Those opportunities that you do find will pay significantly less than in higher COL areas, balancing out the entire purpose for the move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The top two hospitals in the United States are in Cleveland and Rochester, MN. #3 is in Baltimore, #5 is in Michigan, #11 is in St. Louis, #12 is in Phoenix, #14 is in Philadelphia, #15 is in Pittsburgh, #17 is in Nashville, and #19 is in Durham.

Whoever said lower COL areas have crappy hospitals has no idea what they are talking about.

Nice homes and good schools are hardly cheap in Phoenix, Philly, or Durham.

These are still real cities. Not that much cheaper, especially if you want decent neighborhoods

And if you're in a fairly niche field like finance, corporate law, or policy, you'll find a very limited number of opportunities in Phoenix and Durham. Those opportunities that you do find will pay significantly less than in higher COL areas, balancing out the entire purpose for the move.

Summary argument DCUM is generally made up of the top 10% of folks in the country

If you are top 1% it makes sense to stay. If you are in the top 90-99% you can make out much better in many other parts of the country without having to get a 1 million plus mortgage for decent housing schools and commute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you done it?

We are strongly considering it over the course of the next five years. We have to make it work with careers, of course, but if we can, we'd like to head back to upstate NY to be closer to family and to be in a lower COL area.

We didn't get on the property ladder when we should have and now are still renting while paying for childcare, saving for college, and saving for retirement. We simply cannot afford a home in the city that would guarantee good school options through high school. We hate the thought of long commutes and what that will mean for spending time with our kids. DC is increasingly expensive and we think we can have a better quality of life elsewhere. BUT I am sure I am romanticizing, and there are likely plenty of factors I am not considering. So, have you done it? Have you left for a lower COL area, and if so, what have been the pros and cons?

Some friends move to CO, Denver I think, and they love it.

Denver is nice, but mountains are almost inaccessible b/c of weekend traffic, and you are pretty isolated out there in the plains. And it’s no longer much cheaper. If you moved there 10 years ago, you would be golden!

+1, it's very expensive now, and the traffic is horrible. Also DC types would probably be bored by the fleece-wearing outdoorsy types.

We almost moved to Denver more than a decade ago when my job relocated there. All of my colleagues who did relocate, moved back to the east coast. Denver is nice to visit. Living there is a different story. Now if my job had moved to Boulder, we would have moved there in a heartbeat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The top two hospitals in the United States are in Cleveland and Rochester, MN. #3 is in Baltimore, #5 is in Michigan, #11 is in St. Louis, #12 is in Phoenix, #14 is in Philadelphia, #15 is in Pittsburgh, #17 is in Nashville, and #19 is in Durham.

Whoever said lower COL areas have crappy hospitals has no idea what they are talking about.

Nice homes and good schools are hardly cheap in Phoenix, Philly, or Durham.

These are still real cities. Not that much cheaper, especially if you want decent neighborhoods

We live in Philadelphia. I can buy a house in an excellent school district and still be close to Center City for 500k or less. I'm not sure why people are pretending it's somehow no different from DC. There are expensive areas and if you want a large beautiful house in a top neighborhood with top public or private schools you will pay for it, sure, but it'll be cheaper than the equivalent in DC. And even the Mainline has affordable housing for 500k and under. They won't be large and will usually be attached semi-detached housing, but you get great schools, a pleasant neighborhood and a short commute via regional rail to Center City.

Most of our neighbors are highly educated people who went to the best colleges and universities in this country. I don't think they're any less intelligent than people in DC or Boston. They all have great jobs. I find the self-absorbed, self-important perspective of so many DC people chilling rather than informative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The top two hospitals in the United States are in Cleveland and Rochester, MN. #3 is in Baltimore, #5 is in Michigan, #11 is in St. Louis, #12 is in Phoenix, #14 is in Philadelphia, #15 is in Pittsburgh, #17 is in Nashville, and #19 is in Durham.

Whoever said lower COL areas have crappy hospitals has no idea what they are talking about.

Nice homes and good schools are hardly cheap in Phoenix, Philly, or Durham.

These are still real cities. Not that much cheaper, especially if you want decent neighborhoods

We live in Philadelphia. I can buy a house in an excellent school district and still be close to Center City for 500k or less. I'm not sure why people are pretending it's somehow no different from DC. There are expensive areas and if you want a large beautiful house in a top neighborhood with top public or private schools you will pay for it, sure, but it'll be cheaper than the equivalent in DC. And even the Mainline has affordable housing for 500k and under. They won't be large and will usually be attached semi-detached housing, but you get great schools, a pleasant neighborhood and a short commute via regional rail to Center City.

Most of our neighbors are highly educated people who went to the best colleges and universities in this country. I don't think they're any less intelligent than people in DC or Boston. They all have great jobs. I find the self-absorbed, self-important perspective of so many DC people chilling rather than informative.

Thinking about a move to the Philly area and wondering where you ended up, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The top two hospitals in the United States are in Cleveland and Rochester, MN. #3 is in Baltimore, #5 is in Michigan, #11 is in St. Louis, #12 is in Phoenix, #14 is in Philadelphia, #15 is in Pittsburgh, #17 is in Nashville, and #19 is in Durham.

Whoever said lower COL areas have crappy hospitals has no idea what they are talking about.

Nice homes and good schools are hardly cheap in Phoenix, Philly, or Durham.

These are still real cities. Not that much cheaper, especially if you want decent neighborhoods

We live in Philadelphia. I can buy a house in an excellent school district and still be close to Center City for 500k or less. I'm not sure why people are pretending it's somehow no different from DC. There are expensive areas and if you want a large beautiful house in a top neighborhood with top public or private schools you will pay for it, sure, but it'll be cheaper than the equivalent in DC. And even the Mainline has affordable housing for 500k and under. They won't be large and will usually be attached semi-detached housing, but you get great schools, a pleasant neighborhood and a short commute via regional rail to Center City.

Most of our neighbors are highly educated people who went to the best colleges and universities in this country. I don't think they're any less intelligent than people in DC or Boston. They all have great jobs. I find the self-absorbed, self-important perspective of so many DC people chilling rather than informative.

Thinking about a move to the Philly area and wondering where you ended up, PP.

We still live in Center City but are eyeing a move to the suburbs next year for schools. We really like Wyndmoor, which is just north of Chestnut Hill and has great schools and a lovely housing stock. It's more varied than most Main Line towns and a bit more laid back and we like the Chestnut Hill shopping area along Germantown Avenue. Main Line towns are slightly closer and we will still look into the towns. The housing stock varies greatly. People think it's all mansions but it's not. It's a mixture of mansions and family housing and even affordable duplexes and rows. It entirely depends on where you go in each town. Schools are excellent. Of the towns we like Wynnewood and Merion Station, both closest to the Center City. We also like Wayne but it's a bit further out. Narberth is the most affordable of the Main Line towns, along with Ardmore, but most of these towns feed into the same schools (Lower Merion), with Wayne feeding into Radnor schools (also excellent).

Other towns that get rave reviews are Swarthmore/Media and on the NJ side, Haddonfield.

We are also talking to knowledgeable people about navigating the Philadelphia schools. Some of the neighborhood elementary schools are excellent. The city-wide examination entry high school, Masterman, is one of the best in the nation. It's middle schools that are the problem. We're still exploring the pros and cons of buying in places like Mount Airy or Chestnut Hill itself.

[Anonymous]

I'm here just to get enough experience on my resume and gtfo. DC is horrendously overpriced and you can now work 100% (or close to it) remotely. I'll still be able to make big city money and live elsewhere with half the sticker price, which means an even greater increase in standard of living as compared to paying $700k for a POS hole in the wall abode in this area. The older I get the less I give two craps about the latest fancy schmancy restaurant, cafe with $8 lattes, or the 10000th iteration of a craft cocktail/beer bar. And you'd be dead wrong assuming that there aren't other places in the country that are fun. Boise Idaho is quite hopping town with incredible nature and outdoor activities. Ohio has far lower cost of living and cities like Columbus have a lot of stuff to do. The best new restaurant in America was also just voted by Bon Appetite......and it was located in Tulsa. What is really irksome are the presumptions people in this area have about three rest of the country. Actually that goes for most big city folk. I get the politics aspect, but ironically, the best way to improve that is to actually leave city liberal echo chambers and to spread out. However, there are lots of things to do in other parts of the country where it doesn't require a million dollars to own a decent home and you can still be a short drive away from a major metropolitan area. I can't wait to leave and save tons of money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm here just to get enough experience on my resume and gtfo. DC is horrendously overpriced and you can now work 100% (or close to it) remotely. I'll still be able to make big city money and live elsewhere with half the sticker price, which means an even greater increase in standard of living as compared to paying $700k for a POS hole in the wall abode in this area. The older I get the less I give two craps about the latest fancy schmancy restaurant, cafe with $8 lattes, or the 10000th iteration of a craft cocktail/beer bar. And you'd be dead wrong assuming that there aren't other places in the country that are fun. Boise Idaho is quite hopping town with incredible nature and outdoor activities. Ohio has far lower cost of living and cities like Columbus have a lot of stuff to do. The best new restaurant in America was also just voted by Bon Appetite......and it was located in Tulsa. What is really irksome are the presumptions people in this area have about three rest of the country. Actually that goes for most big city folk. I get the politics aspect, but ironically, the best way to improve that is to actually leave city liberal echo chambers and to spread out. However, there are lots of things to do in other parts of the country where it doesn't require a million dollars to own a decent home and you can still be a short drive away from a major metropolitan area. I can't wait to leave and save tons of money.

+ 1,000

I feel the same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The top two hospitals in the United States are in Cleveland and Rochester, MN. #3 is in Baltimore, #5 is in Michigan, #11 is in St. Louis, #12 is in Phoenix, #14 is in Philadelphia, #15 is in Pittsburgh, #17 is in Nashville, and #19 is in Durham.

Whoever said lower COL areas have crappy hospitals has no idea what they are talking about.

Nice homes and good schools are hardly cheap in Phoenix, Philly, or Durham.

These are still real cities. Not that much cheaper, especially if you want decent neighborhoods

We live in Philadelphia. I can buy a house in an excellent school district and still be close to Center City for 500k or less. I'm not sure why people are pretending it's somehow no different from DC. There are expensive areas and if you want a large beautiful house in a top neighborhood with top public or private schools you will pay for it, sure, but it'll be cheaper than the equivalent in DC. And even the Mainline has affordable housing for 500k and under. They won't be large and will usually be attached semi-detached housing, but you get great schools, a pleasant neighborhood and a short commute via regional rail to Center City.

Most of our neighbors are highly educated people who went to the best colleges and universities in this country. I don't think they're any less intelligent than people in DC or Boston. They all have great jobs. I find the self-absorbed, self-important perspective of so many DC people chilling rather than informative.

Thinking about a move to the Philly area and wondering where you ended up, PP.

We still live in Center City but are eyeing a move to the suburbs next year for schools. We really like Wyndmoor, which is just north of Chestnut Hill and has great schools and a lovely housing stock. It's more varied than most Main Line towns and a bit more laid back and we like the Chestnut Hill shopping area along Germantown Avenue. Main Line towns are slightly closer and we will still look into the towns. The housing stock varies greatly. People think it's all mansions but it's not. It's a mixture of mansions and family housing and even affordable duplexes and rows. It entirely depends on where you go in each town. Schools are excellent. Of the towns we like Wynnewood and Merion Station, both closest to the Center City. We also like Wayne but it's a bit further out. Narberth is the most affordable of the Main Line towns, along with Ardmore, but most of these towns feed into the same schools (Lower Merion), with Wayne feeding into Radnor schools (also excellent).

Other towns that get rave reviews are Swarthmore/Media and on the NJ side, Haddonfield.

We are also talking to knowledgeable people about navigating the Philadelphia schools. Some of the neighborhood elementary schools are excellent. The city-wide examination entry high school, Masterman, is one of the best in the nation. It's middle schools that are the problem. We're still exploring the pros and cons of buying in places like Mount Airy or Chestnut Hill itself.

Hello Philly! I live out in the Western 'burbs. Moved here from DC a few years ago. I own a small little cottage type house that would have cost me 3 times as much back in an equivalent area in the DC 'burbs. I can walk to the train and my commute total time (door to door) is about 1/2 hour. We can also walk to a few restaurants, and drive 5 minutes to others. My family is much happier here. We have found the locals to be very friendly and inviting.

[Anonymous]

Philly is really insular and kind of mediocre, though the suburbs have some nicer older homes. There’s obviously a reason why it’s more affordable than other areas. It’s better than Baltimore, but beyond that...

[Anonymous]

Philly isn't gentrified for my family to move there. Still too many ghetto areas. Glad DC took care of that issue!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I Boise Idaho is quite hopping town with incredible nature and outdoor activities.

Boise is a backwater cow town with a horrendous crime problem. Avoid at all costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Philly isn't gentrified for my family to move there. Still too many ghetto areas. Glad DC took care of that issue!

So speaks the ignorant. But that's fine. Stay in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Philly is really insular and kind of mediocre, though the suburbs have some nicer older homes. There’s obviously a reason why it’s more affordable than other areas. It’s better than Baltimore, but beyond that...

Philadelphia has a fabulous, wonderful Center City, much better dining scene than DC, home to a world class university and health complex that employs tens of thousands, sizable corporate presence, excellent arts and culture, big sports scene, is just two hours from New York and a hour or so from the beaches. What am I missing? Sure, the city has problems but it's also rapidly gentrifying without the insane prices and genericism of DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Philly is really insular and kind of mediocre, though the suburbs have some nicer older homes. There’s obviously a reason why it’s more affordable than other areas. It’s better than Baltimore, but beyond that...

Philadelphia has a fabulous, wonderful Center City, much better dining scene than DC, home to a world class university and health complex that employs tens of thousands, sizable corporate presence, excellent arts and culture, big sports scene, is just two hours from New York and a hour or so from the beaches. What am I missing? Sure, the city has problems but it's also rapidly gentrifying without the insane prices and genericism of DC.

Not so sure about the rapid gentrification part. Population is about the same as 30 years ago but w/white flight since then.