Schools splitting from large ineffective school systems - could the 4 Ws split from MCPS?

[Anonymous]

As always, I find it difficult to tell whether I'm supposed to think that the Bethesda/Potomac schools are really awesome or terrible and downtrodden. If they're really awesome now, why would you want to leave? If they're terrible and downtrodden, why did you spend so much money to send your children to them?

People from Bethesda and Potomac for the most part have seen their schools get worse not better due to MCPS decisions. I have continually heard from parents with older children how they are so happy to have gone through MCPS before all of the changes over the past 10 years started. Same thing from parents with both older and younger kids.

The good things about the schools - some great teachers, students that are very engaged in academics, no crime or safety issues, and competitive peer group don't exist because of MCPS. The problems -bad curriculum, lack of rigorous testing, huge class sizes and no ability to ever address this is all MCPS. MCPS does not see itself as being charged with supporting the W schools at all.

I'll give you a small example from years age. There were a number of elementary schools that were declining in enrollment -result of real estate patterns and people jumping out to privates. In MCPS -when schools lose enrollments they lose teachers and classrooms sit empty. We had some wonderful teachers who had worked in the school for years and were part of the community. They were transferred east adding 45 minutes to their already long commute.

Several parents from schools outside the high school cluster and parents from within our school asked if there could be some type of fast track COSA so students from over crowded nearby schools could fill seats. At the overcrowded schools had kids packed into portables and ridiculous lunch times for younger kids because the classes couldn't fit in the cafeteria. Field trips were curtailed due to the logistics of the class size.

Letting kids in overcrowded schools from nearby areas voluntarily fast track COSA to take empty seats in the under enrolled school would have been a great solution. Parents would be responsible for their own transportation. There were no busing needs. Teachers would remain in their school. Crowding would be eased at the other schools. MCPS response - hell no! MCPS administrators pointed out that the overcrowded elementary schools nearby were high performing. There were hardly only FARMS students in the overcrowded schools nearby only less affluent MC students. MCPS would only consider busing kids from low performing schools which would cost money and require feasibility studies. Couldn't be done, don't waste our time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

As always, I find it difficult to tell whether I'm supposed to think that the Bethesda/Potomac schools are really awesome or terrible and downtrodden. If they're really awesome now, why would you want to leave? If they're terrible and downtrodden, why did you spend so much money to send your children to them?

People from Bethesda and Potomac for the most part have seen their schools get worse not better due to MCPS decisions. I have continually heard from parents with older children how they are so happy to have gone through MCPS before all of the changes over the past 10 years started. Same thing from parents with both older and younger kids.

The good things about the schools - some great teachers, students that are very engaged in academics, no crime or safety issues, and competitive peer group don't exist because of MCPS. The problems -bad curriculum, lack of rigorous testing, huge class sizes and no ability to ever address this is all MCPS. MCPS does not see itself as being charged with supporting the W schools at all.

I'll give you a small example from years age. There were a number of elementary schools that were declining in enrollment -result of real estate patterns and people jumping out to privates. In MCPS -when schools lose enrollments they lose teachers and classrooms sit empty. We had some wonderful teachers who had worked in the school for years and were part of the community. They were transferred east adding 45 minutes to their already long commute.

Several parents from schools outside the high school cluster and parents from within our school asked if there could be some type of fast track COSA so students from over crowded nearby schools could fill seats. At the overcrowded schools had kids packed into portables and ridiculous lunch times for younger kids because the classes couldn't fit in the cafeteria. Field trips were curtailed due to the logistics of the class size.

Letting kids in overcrowded schools from nearby areas voluntarily fast track COSA to take empty seats in the under enrolled school would have been a great solution. Parents would be responsible for their own transportation. There were no busing needs. Teachers would remain in their school. Crowding would be eased at the other schools. MCPS response - hell no! MCPS administrators pointed out that the overcrowded elementary schools nearby were high performing. There were hardly only FARMS students in the overcrowded schools nearby only less affluent MC students. MCPS would only consider busing kids from low performing schools which would cost money and require feasibility studies. Couldn't be done, don't waste our time.

Your example is about MCPS's COSA policy and what is and isn't a justification. I don't see how that shows MCPS isn't "supporting the W schools at all."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Silver Spring and I would actually like if Bethesda and Potomac had their own district. It will never happen, obviously. But they could take their particular brand of affluenza-induced anxious parenting with them. I don't mind being part of an "average" school system where my child has some hope of succeeding at high levels without lots of tutors, year-round travel sports, anxiety medication, and therapists.

Make that two parents in Silver Spring!

One in Gaithersburg too

[Anonymous]

I think it does.

Its part of a pattern at MCPS where no problem is important at a W school because UMC kids will always score high enough regardless of the quality of their education in school. No one wants to be under a school system that views their students as "assets" to get good scores and feels no responsibility whatsoever to provide for their education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it does.

Its part of a pattern at MCPS where no problem is important at a W school because UMC kids will always score high enough regardless of the quality of their education in school. No one wants to be under a school system that views their students as "assets" to get good scores and feels no responsibility whatsoever to provide for their education.

truly? how ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it does.

Its part of a pattern at MCPS where no problem is important at a W school because UMC kids will always score high enough regardless of the quality of their education in school. No one wants to be under a school system that views their students as "assets" to get good scores and feels no responsibility whatsoever to provide for their education.

Really? There aren't any MCPS schools in Bethesda and Potomac? That's an outrage!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it does.

Its part of a pattern at MCPS where no problem is important at a W school because UMC kids will always score high enough regardless of the quality of their education in school. No one wants to be under a school system that views their students as "assets" to get good scores and feels no responsibility whatsoever to provide for their education.

So why buy into a neighborhood that feeds to a W school if you really believe MCPS is providing nothing for your kids education???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As always, I find it difficult to tell whether I'm supposed to think that the Bethesda/Potomac schools are really awesome or terrible and downtrodden. If they're really awesome now, why would you want to leave? If they're terrible and downtrodden, why did you spend so much money to send your children to them?

People from Bethesda and Potomac for the most part have seen their schools get worse not better due to MCPS decisions. I have continually heard from parents with older children how they are so happy to have gone through MCPS before all of the changes over the past 10 years started. Same thing from parents with both older and younger kids.

The good things about the schools - some great teachers, students that are very engaged in academics, no crime or safety issues, and competitive peer group don't exist because of MCPS. The problems -bad curriculum, lack of rigorous testing, huge class sizes and no ability to ever address this is all MCPS. MCPS does not see itself as being charged with supporting the W schools at all.

I'll give you a small example from years age. There were a number of elementary schools that were declining in enrollment -result of real estate patterns and people jumping out to privates. In MCPS -when schools lose enrollments they lose teachers and classrooms sit empty. We had some wonderful teachers who had worked in the school for years and were part of the community. They were transferred east adding 45 minutes to their already long commute.

Several parents from schools outside the high school cluster and parents from within our school asked if there could be some type of fast track COSA so students from over crowded nearby schools could fill seats. At the overcrowded schools had kids packed into portables and ridiculous lunch times for younger kids because the classes couldn't fit in the cafeteria. Field trips were curtailed due to the logistics of the class size.

Letting kids in overcrowded schools from nearby areas voluntarily fast track COSA to take empty seats in the under enrolled school would have been a great solution. Parents would be responsible for their own transportation. There were no busing needs. Teachers would remain in their school. Crowding would be eased at the other schools. MCPS response - hell no! MCPS administrators pointed out that the overcrowded elementary schools nearby were high performing. There were hardly only FARMS students in the overcrowded schools nearby only less affluent MC students. MCPS would only consider busing kids from low performing schools which would cost money and require feasibility studies. Couldn't be done, don't waste our time.

Your example is about MCPS's COSA policy and what is and isn't a justification. I don't see how that shows MCPS isn't "supporting the W schools at all."

I actually think pp provided the most rational explanation I’ve ever seen on a DCUM board about why they feel disenfranchised. But I would say, the Ws need to work on coherent messaging. It’s really hard to understand, from a non-W perspective, whether Ws are the best or the worst schools because W parents seem to simultaneously argue both sides. They also then tell non-W parents how horrible our schools are, which doesn’t comport with our experiences. At a minimum, I think you should try to stick to talking points that don’t contradict each other. Based on your post here are some you might try:

- our schools are overcrowded
- we welcome cosas, and the current cosa policy drives up expenses and must be reformed
- we need expanded enrichment/GT opportunities within our schools


I think that would work. The constant “we paid more for our homes and deserve more, all you moochers in DCC and upcounty and all county but bethespotomac are just... POOR” makes you sound kind of insane.

[Anonymous]

Upon reflection, I need to revise one suggested talking point. Strike “our schools are overcrowded” and replace with “our class sizes are unacceptably large”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it does.

Its part of a pattern at MCPS where no problem is important at a W school because UMC kids will always score high enough regardless of the quality of their education in school. No one wants to be under a school system that views their students as "assets" to get good scores and feels no responsibility whatsoever to provide for their education.

truly? how ridiculous.

I agree, the last sentence is ridiculous. But the first point isn't. There does appear to be a mindset to not worry about issues at W schools because the kids are still doing well on test scores and beyond. There doesn't seem to be much a concern about whether improvements could be made at W schools because kids there are doing fine. Therefore, attention and resources are focused elsewhere to focus on closing the achievement gap. One could even wonder whether there is an effort to avoid helping W schools do better because that will only worsen the gap, but I am not sure I am quite that cynical.

Some will say (not unreasonably) that MCPS policy should be to focus effort, resources, and policy changes to help kids in lower performing schools. But it isn't crazy for W parents to be annoyed if MCPS seems to feel that they are doing "good enough" and there is no need to try to help maximize the potential of W students, rather than simply being satisfied with good enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A PP poster somewhere upthread said that 95% of Bethesda/Potomac would vote to leave MCPS in a heartbeat. Why not let them leave? There is no integration between the schools. Does anyone in the east even know where Wootton is or do you really go out there often?

Out of curiosity, I googled around to read some of the back story on areas that have split off from large school systems. Its seldom about money being disproportionately spent and almost always about the larger system intervening in a negative manner or completely ignoring the area leaving. The area leaving often pays the larger system and real estate values have risen in all the areas that split off. The larger school systems gets its money, the splitting area gets a responsive education school district and real estate values rise. Its only a lose situation to the administration of the large system that now can no longer take credit for the performance of the area that split off.

Class size is a good example of why the W schools should leave. In many systems, student:teacher ratios are much lower in poorer schools but the system allows the affluent areas to fund raise to put an aide in the classroom. Even DCPS allows this. MCPS does not. The argument that is unfair to Focus and Title 1 schools to allow the W schools to fund raise to put an aide in a lower elementary school class with 29 kids is bull shit. The W school would not be achieving a ratio that is better than the Focus school only one that is equal to the Focus school without taking any resources from the Focus school. The MCPS rationale is that since students in a W school already have non-school advantages then the only way to equal things out is to create a disadvantageous situation within school - as MCPS controls the schools.

The Magnet fiasco is along the same lines. MCPS didn't decide to increase spots in the Magnet to bring in more URM students and UMC students from the east. MCPS decided to leave the kids in the W schools in their home schools and remove this option to equal things out again. As the W students already have advantages outside of school the only way to equal things out is to create a disadvantageous situation in the schools - which MCPS controls.

Curriculum 2.0 and ending math acceleration is another example. There is a problem within MCPS with the achievement gap so MCPS decides to go at not by focusing on bringing up the bottom but by holding back the top.

You can't really blame anyone in the W schools from wanting out from under MCPS.

Which W schools parents are you talking about? The few disgruntled ones on DCUM maybe but not any of the many parents I know. This is fake news to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it does.

Its part of a pattern at MCPS where no problem is important at a W school because UMC kids will always score high enough regardless of the quality of their education in school. No one wants to be under a school system that views their students as "assets" to get good scores and feels no responsibility whatsoever to provide for their education.

So why buy into a neighborhood that feeds to a W school if you really believe MCPS is providing nothing for your kids education???

to get away from the poors who would taint and bore their snowflakes with their poor work ethic intelligence discipline and poor parental involvement

[Anonymous]

OP, you hit the nail on the head but, it’s not going to happen. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Ive said this here before but Ill say it again. I work in the county and the people at the tippy top are not secretive about their feelings about the W schools. The goal is to narrow the achievement gap, and focusing on enrichment or class size or resources or magnet access in the W schools is inconsistent with that goal. They view it as a moral imperative to level the playing field, and whether or not you agree, there are limited resources. So yes, the W schools are going to remain an afterthought and they're going to let parents do the enriching. Honestly, how could anyone look at the MCPS website and not see this mandate so clearly? It's been this way for YEARS. And by the way, they're also not sending the superstar principals the W schools way either. The good ones in the Ws tend to move up quickly. There are one or two exceptions, but at the high school level only. That's why you see a lot of teacher turnover in the W schools too--lack of good leadership.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ive said this here before but Ill say it again. I work in the county and the people at the tippy top are not secretive about their feelings about the W schools. The goal is to narrow the achievement gap, and focusing on enrichment or class size or resources or magnet access in the W schools is inconsistent with that goal. They view it as a moral imperative to level the playing field, and whether or not you agree, there are limited resources. So yes, the W schools are going to remain an afterthought and they're going to let parents do the enriching. Honestly, how could anyone look at the MCPS website and not see this mandate so clearly? It's been this way for YEARS. And by the way, they're also not sending the superstar principals the W schools way either. The good ones in the Ws tend to move up quickly. There are one or two exceptions, but at the high school level only. That's why you see a lot of teacher turnover in the W schools too--lack of good leadership.

It makes you wonder why people pay extra for the privilege of sending their kids to such under-resourced schools with second-rate staff, doesn't it?