New Budget Recommendations -- eliminate AAP busing and centers

[Anonymous]

Where is the head slap emoji??

Travel soccer is within the boundaries of a PRIVATE entity paid for separately by parents.

We are discussing PUBLIC school and publicly funded programs.


I read it more as not everyone can or will qualify for the travel team, same for AAP. It's not about parents thinking their child is superior.

But this is a thread discussing the funding of public school programs. The comparisons don't measure up and are being used as theatrics to detract from the actual discussion.

Actual discussion? Which one is that? This is a now 17 page thread with multiple topics. The travel soccer comment was made as an analogy for a limited program for which qualifying criteria must be met. Where's the detracting theatrics in that? Go back and read the context in which it was made. They might has just as easily mentioned varsity sports in public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Where is the head slap emoji??

Travel soccer is within the boundaries of a PRIVATE entity paid for separately by parents.

We are discussing PUBLIC school and publicly funded programs.


I read it more as not everyone can or will qualify for the travel team, same for AAP. It's not about parents thinking their child is superior.

But this is a thread discussing the funding of public school programs. The comparisons don't measure up and are being used as theatrics to detract from the actual discussion.

Actual discussion? Which one is that? This is a now 17 page thread with multiple topics. The travel soccer comment was made as an analogy for a limited program for which qualifying criteria must be met. Where's the detracting theatrics in that? Go back and read the context in which it was made. They might has just as easily mentioned varsity sports in public schools.

I agree there was merit in the travel soccer argument, I was responding to the person who said it was theatrics. If travel sports are theatrics then everything not specifically dealing with "new budget recommendations" should be called theatrics. And yes, varsity (and I'd argue JV) sports is a better comparison where budget is concerned.

[Anonymous]

^oops. I'm 11:11 and thought you were quoting me and not the other poster, sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^oops. I'm 11:11 and thought you were quoting me and not the other poster, sorry.

Ha, not your fault. I have so much trouble getting those quote codes in place that my posts are typically several down the line from what I'm quoting.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone heard any more "insider" insights from AAP teachers or principals about potential program changes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone heard any more "insider" insights from AAP teachers or principals about potential program changes?

The focus of PTAs (etc.) appears to be on fully funding the schools and not pitting parent against parent, program against program.

See the #IamFCPS Facebook page for advocacy efforts:

https://www.facebook.com/IAMFCPS/

[Anonymous]

What are people even arguing about? AAP transportation is $1 million. Want to do away with it? Fine. That's $1 million out of the $75 million FCPS says it needs. AAP level 4 does not cost any more except testing which I'm told would happen anyway. A Center designation does not cost more money. Level 2 and 3 are the services that costs more money. Is this what people are arguing goes away? Getting rid of the AART teachers who teach Young Scholars, level 2 and level 3 advanced academics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are people even arguing about? AAP transportation is $1 million. Want to do away with it? Fine. That's $1 million out of the $75 million FCPS says it needs. AAP level 4 does not cost any more except testing which I'm told would happen anyway. A Center designation does not cost more money. Level 2 and 3 are the services that costs more money. Is this what people are arguing goes away? Getting rid of the AART teachers who teach Young Scholars, level 2 and level 3 advanced academics?

Creating local level 4s will cost money -- they will have to interview and hire AAP teachers at all the ESs, install trailers, deal with picking kids to fill out classes who aren't AAP-qualified, etc. Don't think it's just a quick reduction of $1m to get rid of bussing.

Oh -- I forgot about the costs of rezoning. B/c my kids' AAP center school is over 50% AAP. Get rid of busing and put a phony local level 4 in each feeder school and you will definitely have to rezone the former-center school. There are costs associated with that as well. The budget committee was given a list of items with a direct-cost listed. Indirect costs were not listed... and I believe the indirect costs of eliminating busing and adding local level 4 everywhere are substantial.

The costs will be a lot less if they redefine what "level 4" is. If they decide that level 4 is just pull outs or even grouping kids for math/reading, it will be cheaper than what I've described above... but it will also be a very watered down program. There is good reason to be concerned... not panicked, but concerned. For those of us who know and love our kids' center, there could be drastic changes... and what we know may not exist next year... but right now, it's all very vague.

[Anonymous]

Why can't they just get rid of transportation and curb the number of appeals that get accepted in the future?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why can't they just get rid of transportation and curb the number of appeals that get accepted in the future?

The problem is not appeals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm wondering just how many FARMS kids have parents who will march them out to get an IQ test when they don't get into AAP. I'm thinking not a whole lot have the required $400, much less even know how the system works. Guess that's why AAP is full of white and Asian, HHI kids.

Sorry, what's HHI? From your tone I assume it's something you find distasteful. I've come up with Herfindahl–Hirschman Index and Hilton Head Island so far, but figure it's best to just ask.

Good grief. It's household income - as in "high household income." And no, I don't find it distasteful at all. I am saying that AAP is full of HHI kids because they have parents who know how the system works and can afford the extra testing to get their kids into AAP (notice the huge amount of AAP kids in HHI areas - McLean, Great Falls, Vienna, Oakton, etc.). FARMS kids don't have any of those advantages, which makes AAP in general a very uneven playing field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, anyone reading this board is unlikely to be FARMS, and understands exactly how the system works (and if they are FARMS, GMU will waive the WISC fee).

Of course it's extremely unlikely that people reading this board are FARMS - which is my point exactly. FARMs parents have no clue what resources to turn to or how the process even works to get their kids into AAP. I doubt many of them even make it as far as GMU for WISC testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+1. Travel soccer teams have athletically talented kids (I could have my kids take hours of private lessons a day and they still wouldn't get in), youth orchestras have musically talented kids, and AAP has -- wait for it-- academically talented kids. According to a combination of work samples, teacher recommendations and standardized tests. And if you don't like the standardized tests, you can get an IQ test done and prove the COGAT wrong. So AAP is not just a "superior in their parents minds" thing. It's a designation that kids get after a vote by an objective panel weighs a number of factors. So yes, GE kids have been determined BY FCPS not to be as academically talented as the cutoff for the AAP pool. But, it is also a fact that any team, group or program that is not open admission (or lottery) will select some kids and not others based on talent and performance. Why is this okay in athletics but not academics? I don't accuse parents in my community of a "superiority complex" when they talk about their child making a "cut" team for a high school sport. I usually think, "Larla is a nice kid. Good for her." It takes nothing away for my kids to recognize that other kids are talented-- sometimes in areas where my kids struggle. It's not a zero sum game.

I wasn't going to come back to this thread after posting a long while back, but am glad I did. The bold statement is so true. Thanks to this PP.

+1

Where is the head slap emoji??

Travel soccer is within the boundaries of a PRIVATE entity paid for separately by parents.

We are discussing PUBLIC school and publicly funded programs.

+1000
Some people seem unable to grasp the concept that FCPS is a public school system. Whatever they want, they feel entitled to demand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If people were being honest, they would acknowledge that the impact of sorting kids into AAP and GenEd tracks at public schools is of a different nature than a kid making a travel soccer team. Not that one predicts success, or the other guarantees failure, but the message delivered and longer-term consequences are more significant.

But, please, carry on with the rationalizations. It's fairly amusing to watch the rhetorical somersaults when the truth is fairly obvious.

Absolutely agree. The tired travel soccer analogy is comparing apples to oranges. It's one thing for a child to know that he or she isn't athletically talented enough to compete on a travel team. Obviously, travel teams are all about competition and want to win, so they'll only accept the best players. (And no, my kids aren't athletes, so I don't have anyone on a travel team).

It's quite another thing to tell one group of kids they're "smarter" than the other group. Labeling based on something as basic as innate knowledge can follow one through life. And what makes the AAP system even more egregious than simply offering a GT program for the exceptionally gifted, is that it sorts the entire population of students into two groups, with an incredible amount of overlap in each. Most AAP kids no smarter than most Gen Ed kids, but all of these kids will grow up falsely believing that they are either smart or not. Nothing about the system as it stands is right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people even arguing about? AAP transportation is $1 million. Want to do away with it? Fine. That's $1 million out of the $75 million FCPS says it needs. AAP level 4 does not cost any more except testing which I'm told would happen anyway. A Center designation does not cost more money. Level 2 and 3 are the services that costs more money. Is this what people are arguing goes away? Getting rid of the AART teachers who teach Young Scholars, level 2 and level 3 advanced academics?

Creating local level 4s will cost money -- they will have to interview and hire AAP teachers at all the ESs, install trailers, deal with picking kids to fill out classes who aren't AAP-qualified, etc. Don't think it's just a quick reduction of $1m to get rid of bussing.

Oh -- I forgot about the costs of rezoning. B/c my kids' AAP center school is over 50% AAP. Get rid of busing and put a phony local level 4 in each feeder school and you will definitely have to rezone the former-center school. There are costs associated with that as well. The budget committee was given a list of items with a direct-cost listed. Indirect costs were not listed... and I believe the indirect costs of eliminating busing and adding local level 4 everywhere are substantial.

The costs will be a lot less if they redefine what "level 4" is. If they decide that level 4 is just pull outs or even grouping kids for math/reading, it will be cheaper than what I've described above... but it will also be a very watered down program. There is good reason to be concerned... not panicked, but concerned. For those of us who know and love our kids' center, there could be drastic changes... and what we know may not exist next year... but right now, it's all very vague.

My kids also attend an AAP center that is over 50% AAP. I completely disagree that rezoning would cost that much and in fact, believe we are long overdue for some rezoning. Why do you call a LLIV program "phony"? Why must your kids have a special center program? This is a public school system which is not in any way required to house AAP kids in centers. GT kids from a decade and more ago were always instructed in their own schools and they did just fine. Besides which, the vast majority of current AAP kids are completely mainstream and absolutely don't need a special learning environment. Why do you feel your kids are entitled to one?