Do you believe in Hell?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gods way is different than mans. God promises forgiveness to those that understand their dilemma and wash their souls with the blood of Christ.

"God's ways are not our ways" -- The standard out for fundamentalists when they lack a specific, targeted response.

This habit of playing the gotcha game doesn't advance this discussion at all. I there anything this poster could have said that would give you more satisfaction? What if pp had said, "you know, I'm not sure." Be honest. Would that have triggered a more charitable response? I'm really curious what would have been a better answer, IYO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But someone please answer this question: if you get up to heaven and find out that your spouse/father/mother/son/daughter/best friend/favorite aunt/brother/sister or whoever it is you love the most did not make it -- can you honestly say you'd be happy in eternity knowing that loved one is tormented in hell?

I believe you may have profound understanding and acceptance that no one ends up away from God lightly, and that they consciously created such a situation. I don't know how sadness or pity would manifest itself in an eternal state.

I see some waffling there, and an admission of not knowing. Are you saying that once you get to heaven, you'll understand and accept why God rejected the loved ones you were counting on spending eternity with? and won't mind that they are burning in hell forever?

Yes, and that seems like that contradicts what's supposed to be the essence of comforting thoughts about death -- that some day you will be reunited with your loved ones, that they're not really gone, etc. If it turns out you won't be reunited, where's the solace? And why would sadness or pity not be manifest in eternity -- when there are so many instances of God expressing emotions in biblical scripture - anger, sadness, sorrow, pity, being pleased with his creation.

If God gets to be sad about the death of his son, why wouldn't a mother get to be sad in heaven if her son or husband isn't allowed to join her there? Heaven is supposed to be a state of perfection, but I have a hard time imaging it to be perfect if loved ones are separated for all eternity.

Yeah, I'm the poster you quoted and I don't know how it will manifest itself. But I don't think my loving someone and the happiness I derive from that relationship overrides that person's choice to ultimately separate from God. Meaning someone wants nothing to do with heaven/God and my feelings for them force them out of their chosen state to be with me. I wonder if a proclaimed atheist would even want that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gods way is different than mans. God promises forgiveness to those that understand their dilemma and wash their souls with the blood of Christ.

"God's ways are not our ways" -- The standard out for fundamentalists when they lack a specific, targeted response.

God created matter, time, physical laws and logic. He resides outside and well above all of them. You are all tangled up in what you perceive to be your logic. The spiritual state of pure love is beyond our capacity and outside the creation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gods way is different than mans. God promises forgiveness to those that understand their dilemma and wash their souls with the blood of Christ.

"God's ways are not our ways" -- The standard out for fundamentalists when they lack a specific, targeted response.

God created matter, time, physical laws and logic. He resides outside and well above all of them. You are all tangled up in what you perceive to be your logic. The spiritual state of pure love is beyond our capacity and outside the creation.

Really? but somehow you know that God created matter, time, etc. -- and you think I'm tangled up in my perceptions! Thanks for an additional example of flawed thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But someone please answer this question: if you get up to heaven and find out that your spouse/father/mother/son/daughter/best friend/favorite aunt/brother/sister or whoever it is you love the most did not make it -- can you honestly say you'd be happy in eternity knowing that loved one is tormented in hell?

I believe you may have profound understanding and acceptance that no one ends up away from God lightly, and that they consciously created such a situation. I don't know how sadness or pity would manifest itself in an eternal state.

I see some waffling there, and an admission of not knowing. Are you saying that once you get to heaven, you'll understand and accept why God rejected the loved ones you were counting on spending eternity with? and won't mind that they are burning in hell forever?

Yes, and that seems like that contradicts what's supposed to be the essence of comforting thoughts about death -- that some day you will be reunited with your loved ones, that they're not really gone, etc. If it turns out you won't be reunited, where's the solace? And why would sadness or pity not be manifest in eternity -- when there are so many instances of God expressing emotions in biblical scripture - anger, sadness, sorrow, pity, being pleased with his creation.

If God gets to be sad about the death of his son, why wouldn't a mother get to be sad in heaven if her son or husband isn't allowed to join her there? Heaven is supposed to be a state of perfection, but I have a hard time imaging it to be perfect if loved ones are separated for all eternity.

Yeah, I'm the poster you quoted and I don't know how it will manifest itself. But I don't think my loving someone and the happiness I derive from that relationship overrides that person's choice to ultimately separate from God. Meaning someone wants nothing to do with heaven/God and my feelings for them force them out of their chosen state to be with me. I wonder if a proclaimed atheist would even want that.

So God knows best, which extends to how his people will be happy in heaven, even if it doesn't turn out the way you expected and you learn that half your loved ones are suffering for eternity -- God's will extends into heaven. I suppose this means God could change the rules any time about heaven. For instance, after a couple more eons, he could shut the whole thing down and send all the souls there into oblivion -- or maybe even to hell, if they don't live up to his expectations.

As for proclaimed atheists -- they don't think there will be a heaven or hell. They think life is what it seems to be -- temporary.

[Anonymous]

Whoever or whatever created matter, time , physical laws , space and love is definitely eons above you and your goofy neurons. Not recognizing your insignificance and tiny mental capacity is the first sign of a dummy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But someone please answer this question: if you get up to heaven and find out that your spouse/father/mother/son/daughter/best friend/favorite aunt/brother/sister or whoever it is you love the most did not make it -- can you honestly say you'd be happy in eternity knowing that loved one is tormented in hell?

I believe you may have profound understanding and acceptance that no one ends up away from God lightly, and that they consciously created such a situation. I don't know how sadness or pity would manifest itself in an eternal state.

I see some waffling there, and an admission of not knowing. Are you saying that once you get to heaven, you'll understand and accept why God rejected the loved ones you were counting on spending eternity with? and won't mind that they are burning in hell forever?

Yes, and that seems like that contradicts what's supposed to be the essence of comforting thoughts about death -- that some day you will be reunited with your loved ones, that they're not really gone, etc. If it turns out you won't be reunited, where's the solace? And why would sadness or pity not be manifest in eternity -- when there are so many instances of God expressing emotions in biblical scripture - anger, sadness, sorrow, pity, being pleased with his creation.

If God gets to be sad about the death of his son, why wouldn't a mother get to be sad in heaven if her son or husband isn't allowed to join her there? Heaven is supposed to be a state of perfection, but I have a hard time imaging it to be perfect if loved ones are separated for all eternity.

Yeah, I'm the poster you quoted and I don't know how it will manifest itself. But I don't think my loving someone and the happiness I derive from that relationship overrides that person's choice to ultimately separate from God. Meaning someone wants nothing to do with heaven/God and my feelings for them force them out of their chosen state to be with me. I wonder if a proclaimed atheist would even want that.

To me that seems to cheapen relationships and love here on earth. Doesn't matter how strong the bond of love is between me and my child - if she decides to separate from God, too bad. I'll still be fine without her without eternity.

I think at the very least it calls into question the simplistic ideas about afterlife that most religions peddle - that you'll be reunited and hanging out with all your loved ones having a grand old time. (How does that work anyway when you consider all the generations of a person's ancestors that go back thousands and thousands of years? You want to be with your grandparents, who want to be with their grandparents and so on and so on -- that gets to be a very crowded gathering. But I digress....)

I still say if any god that's out there can be sad at what happened to his son here on earth (even as he knew he'd be resurrected and reunited with him up in heaven very soon) then humans should be able to feel sorrow in eternity knowing a loved one is tormented in hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whoever or whatever created matter, time , physical laws , space and love is definitely eons above you and your goofy neurons. Not recognizing your insignificance and tiny mental capacity is the first sign of a dummy.

and then there are those who know all about God, from reading a 2 thousand year old book

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whoever or whatever created matter, time , physical laws , space and love is definitely eons above you and your goofy neurons. Not recognizing your insignificance and tiny mental capacity is the first sign of a dummy.

and then there are those who know all about God, from reading a 2 thousand year old book

But they recognize their weakness and pitiful situation which is smarter than you right from the get go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whoever or whatever created matter, time , physical laws , space and love is definitely eons above you and your goofy neurons. Not recognizing your insignificance and tiny mental capacity is the first sign of a dummy.

and then there are those who know all about God, from reading a 2 thousand year old book

But they recognize their weakness and pitiful situation which is smarter than you right from the get go.

because it says so in the book

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But someone please answer this question: if you get up to heaven and find out that your spouse/father/mother/son/daughter/best friend/favorite aunt/brother/sister or whoever it is you love the most did not make it -- can you honestly say you'd be happy in eternity knowing that loved one is tormented in hell?

I believe you may have profound understanding and acceptance that no one ends up away from God lightly, and that they consciously created such a situation. I don't know how sadness or pity would manifest itself in an eternal state.

I see some waffling there, and an admission of not knowing. Are you saying that once you get to heaven, you'll understand and accept why God rejected the loved ones you were counting on spending eternity with? and won't mind that they are burning in hell forever?

Yes, and that seems like that contradicts what's supposed to be the essence of comforting thoughts about death -- that some day you will be reunited with your loved ones, that they're not really gone, etc. If it turns out you won't be reunited, where's the solace? And why would sadness or pity not be manifest in eternity -- when there are so many instances of God expressing emotions in biblical scripture - anger, sadness, sorrow, pity, being pleased with his creation.

If God gets to be sad about the death of his son, why wouldn't a mother get to be sad in heaven if her son or husband isn't allowed to join her there? Heaven is supposed to be a state of perfection, but I have a hard time imaging it to be perfect if loved ones are separated for all eternity.

Yeah, I'm the poster you quoted and I don't know how it will manifest itself. But I don't think my loving someone and the happiness I derive from that relationship overrides that person's choice to ultimately separate from God. Meaning someone wants nothing to do with heaven/God and my feelings for them force them out of their chosen state to be with me. I wonder if a proclaimed atheist would even want that.

To me that seems to cheapen relationships and love here on earth. Doesn't matter how strong the bond of love is between me and my child - if she decides to separate from God, too bad. I'll still be fine without her without eternity.

I think at the very least it calls into question the simplistic ideas about afterlife that most religions peddle - that you'll be reunited and hanging out with all your loved ones having a grand old time. (How does that work anyway when you consider all the generations of a person's ancestors that go back thousands and thousands of years? You want to be with your grandparents, who want to be with their grandparents and so on and so on -- that gets to be a very crowded gathering. But I digress....)

I still say if any god that's out there can be sad at what happened to his son here on earth (even as he knew he'd be resurrected and reunited with him up in heaven very soon) then humans should be able to feel sorrow in eternity knowing a loved one is tormented in hell.

Maybe. I don't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whoever or whatever created matter, time , physical laws , space and love is definitely eons above you and your goofy neurons. Not recognizing your insignificance and tiny mental capacity is the first sign of a dummy.

and then there are those who know all about God, from reading a 2 thousand year old book

But they recognize their weakness and pitiful situation which is smarter than you right from the get go.

because it says so in the book

Nope. It's a straight up fact. Death , illness , disease , Alzheimer's is your destiny. Weak and powerless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whoever or whatever created matter, time , physical laws , space and love is definitely eons above you and your goofy neurons. Not recognizing your insignificance and tiny mental capacity is the first sign of a dummy.

and then there are those who know all about God, from reading a 2 thousand year old book

But they recognize their weakness and pitiful situation which is smarter than you right from the get go.

Is there anything in the Bible about ad hominem attacks?

[Anonymous]

Blessed are the weak .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Voluminous scripture" proves nothing.

In a thousand years from now, some culture could make 50 Shades of Gray its bible.


Get it?

I mentioned voluminous Scripture because Christians were referred to as having a "bs theory" and was earlier than that that we can take one piece of the Bible and make it say whatever we want. But what I am presenting is the consistent clear message of Scripture. And the only reason I write these posts is so that perhaps someone will read them and understand that God is a forgiving, loving God that doesn't care what you've done if you'll only repent. I don't want anyone to go to Hell. More than that, I want everyone to go to Heaven. But I am perplexed by the dichotomy of these views denying Christian teaching: On one hand, it's said God is too good to send people to Hell, and on the other hand, some people (like child rapists) really deserve it and how dare I suggest they can find redemption. Which is it?

And the main reason I respond to these posts is so people reading here will see how weak fundamentalist arguments are and how desperate and rigid and brainwashed they sound.

Jesus Christ offers forgiveness and eternal life. What is it you have to offer?

NP here. What I have to offer is, when you're dead you're dead. That is all.