Baby stealing approved in South Carolina!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

I'm not a white American, though I am mixed/biracial. My own search about my backgrounds is my own - not my relatives from either side, not my parents, not some monolithic ethnic group (since that doesn't exist). I don't necessarily think that seeking out an identity is unimportant, but however anyone defines themselves isn't irrelevant - it's on an individual to decide for themselves. If Veronica grows up to decide that it's irrelevant, so be it. Lots of people of various heritages do. If she decides to embrace her minute fraction of Native American background, so be it. It would her decision alone. If she decides to embrace her Hispanic heritage, it's again her decision alone. If she embraces all or none of her multiple backgrounds, or some and not others, or changes her mind at different times in her life, that's Veronica's choice alone.

I feel like there's some weird ownership/property thing going on - the Cherokee Nation doesn't get to "claim" Veronica, or decide for her, that she's one of them. That's her decision to make when she's older.

I can't even comment as you apparently haven't even picked up a history book or attempted to even understand why 'she's one of them'. This is always the problem...people who go on without obtaining facts to argue their point. Please pick up a history book, any history book, on Native Americans and then debate your point. But only those who, like yourself, have not bothered to even read Cherokee or Native American laws or treaties with the American government will always go by what they "think" is right, not fact.

Native Americans are more than just a figurehead for a football team.

So Veronica herself, or people of Native American descent don't get to decide for themselves about their personal level of belonging? Seriously? Can you give me an exact citation for themselves?

Pick up a book or go on the internet about Native Americans and how they define their heritage and those who are considered part of the Indian nation.

Nobody's going to do your homework for you. Didn't you even learn that in school?

So you can't give me a citation? No? Ok then.

There are real and current issues of disenfranchisement and deep abuse of Native American communities in the US, but I can't get behind any group taking away an individual's sovereignty to define themselves. Nope. Never.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

I'm not a white American, though I am mixed/biracial. My own search about my backgrounds is my own - not my relatives from either side, not my parents, not some monolithic ethnic group (since that doesn't exist). I don't necessarily think that seeking out an identity is unimportant, but however anyone defines themselves isn't irrelevant - it's on an individual to decide for themselves. If Veronica grows up to decide that it's irrelevant, so be it. Lots of people of various heritages do. If she decides to embrace her minute fraction of Native American background, so be it. It would her decision alone. If she decides to embrace her Hispanic heritage, it's again her decision alone. If she embraces all or none of her multiple backgrounds, or some and not others, or changes her mind at different times in her life, that's Veronica's choice alone.

I feel like there's some weird ownership/property thing going on - the Cherokee Nation doesn't get to "claim" Veronica, or decide for her, that she's one of them. That's her decision to make when she's older.

I can't even comment as you apparently haven't even picked up a history book or attempted to even understand why 'she's one of them'. This is always the problem...people who go on without obtaining facts to argue their point. Please pick up a history book, any history book, on Native Americans and then debate your point. But only those who, like yourself, have not bothered to even read Cherokee or Native American laws or treaties with the American government will always go by what they "think" is right, not fact.

Native Americans are more than just a figurehead for a football team.

So Veronica herself, or people of Native American descent don't get to decide for themselves about their personal level of belonging? Seriously? Can you give me an exact citation for themselves?

Well, you are out you aren't. You don't choose your level of belonging.

http://www.cherokee.org/Services/TribalCitizenship/Citizenship.aspx

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

I'm not a white American, though I am mixed/biracial. My own search about my backgrounds is my own - not my relatives from either side, not my parents, not some monolithic ethnic group (since that doesn't exist). I don't necessarily think that seeking out an identity is unimportant, but however anyone defines themselves isn't irrelevant - it's on an individual to decide for themselves. If Veronica grows up to decide that it's irrelevant, so be it. Lots of people of various heritages do. If she decides to embrace her minute fraction of Native American background, so be it. It would her decision alone. If she decides to embrace her Hispanic heritage, it's again her decision alone. If she embraces all or none of her multiple backgrounds, or some and not others, or changes her mind at different times in her life, that's Veronica's choice alone.

I feel like there's some weird ownership/property thing going on - the Cherokee Nation doesn't get to "claim" Veronica, or decide for her, that she's one of them. That's her decision to make when she's older.

I can't even comment as you apparently haven't even picked up a history book or attempted to even understand why 'she's one of them'. This is always the problem...people who go on without obtaining facts to argue their point. Please pick up a history book, any history book, on Native Americans and then debate your point. But only those who, like yourself, have not bothered to even read Cherokee or Native American laws or treaties with the American government will always go by what they "think" is right, not fact.

Native Americans are more than just a figurehead for a football team.

So Veronica herself, or people of Native American descent don't get to decide for themselves about their personal level of belonging? Seriously? Can you give me an exact citation for themselves?

Pick up a book or go on the internet about Native Americans and how they define their heritage and those who are considered part of the Indian nation.

Nobody's going to do your homework for you. Didn't you even learn that in school?

PP again. After reading such unsubstantiated comments about Native Americans (or lack of knowledge from posters), it is obvious that not only are you not even interested in the history but you don't give a damn and will make up your own conclusions.

I am done. And America wonders why non-European countries despise us and question are motives. It's because we don't give a flying damn about anybody else as evidenced by not only the lack of knowledge but the refusal to even pick up a damn book!

Not to worry. I am done with this thread.

Oh bullshit. I am interested and have repeatedly asked you to back up your claims that people of Native American descent aren't allowed to make their own claims about their identity. You're refusing to offer anything besides unsubstantiated hysterics.

FWIW I'm mixed, and while one of my backgrounds is European in origin, it's not the predominant side I personally have been brought up with or chosen to associate with. But let me guess - you know me better than my own self, and think you ought to define my own identity for me, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

I'm not a white American, though I am mixed/biracial. My own search about my backgrounds is my own - not my relatives from either side, not my parents, not some monolithic ethnic group (since that doesn't exist). I don't necessarily think that seeking out an identity is unimportant, but however anyone defines themselves isn't irrelevant - it's on an individual to decide for themselves. If Veronica grows up to decide that it's irrelevant, so be it. Lots of people of various heritages do. If she decides to embrace her minute fraction of Native American background, so be it. It would her decision alone. If she decides to embrace her Hispanic heritage, it's again her decision alone. If she embraces all or none of her multiple backgrounds, or some and not others, or changes her mind at different times in her life, that's Veronica's choice alone.

I feel like there's some weird ownership/property thing going on - the Cherokee Nation doesn't get to "claim" Veronica, or decide for her, that she's one of them. That's her decision to make when she's older.

I can't even comment as you apparently haven't even picked up a history book or attempted to even understand why 'she's one of them'. This is always the problem...people who go on without obtaining facts to argue their point. Please pick up a history book, any history book, on Native Americans and then debate your point. But only those who, like yourself, have not bothered to even read Cherokee or Native American laws or treaties with the American government will always go by what they "think" is right, not fact.

Native Americans are more than just a figurehead for a football team.

So Veronica herself, or people of Native American descent don't get to decide for themselves about their personal level of belonging? Seriously? Can you give me an exact citation for themselves?

Well, you are out you aren't. You don't choose your level of belonging.

http://www.cherokee.org/Services/TribalCitizenship/Citizenship.aspx

Apparently, Baby Veronica's father, though 1/32 Cherokee, is a member of the nation.

Today the Cherokee Nations is nearly 300,000 citizens strong, young and old. To be eligible for Cherokee Nation citizenship, individuals must provide documents connecting them to an enrolled lineal ancestor who is listed on the Dawes Roll with a blood degree. CDIB/Tribal Citizenship is traced through natural parents. In cases of adoption, CDIB/Citizenship must be proven through a biological parent to an ancestor registered on the Dawes Roll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

I'm not a white American, though I am mixed/biracial. My own search about my backgrounds is my own - not my relatives from either side, not my parents, not some monolithic ethnic group (since that doesn't exist). I don't necessarily think that seeking out an identity is unimportant, but however anyone defines themselves isn't irrelevant - it's on an individual to decide for themselves. If Veronica grows up to decide that it's irrelevant, so be it. Lots of people of various heritages do. If she decides to embrace her minute fraction of Native American background, so be it. It would her decision alone. If she decides to embrace her Hispanic heritage, it's again her decision alone. If she embraces all or none of her multiple backgrounds, or some and not others, or changes her mind at different times in her life, that's Veronica's choice alone.

I feel like there's some weird ownership/property thing going on - the Cherokee Nation doesn't get to "claim" Veronica, or decide for her, that she's one of them. That's her decision to make when she's older.

I can't even comment as you apparently haven't even picked up a history book or attempted to even understand why 'she's one of them'. This is always the problem...people who go on without obtaining facts to argue their point. Please pick up a history book, any history book, on Native Americans and then debate your point. But only those who, like yourself, have not bothered to even read Cherokee or Native American laws or treaties with the American government will always go by what they "think" is right, not fact.

Native Americans are more than just a figurehead for a football team.

So Veronica herself, or people of Native American descent don't get to decide for themselves about their personal level of belonging? Seriously? Can you give me an exact citation for themselves?

Pick up a book or go on the internet about Native Americans and how they define their heritage and those who are considered part of the Indian nation.

Nobody's going to do your homework for you. Didn't you even learn that in school?

PP again. After reading such unsubstantiated comments about Native Americans (or lack of knowledge from posters), it is obvious that not only are you not even interested in the history but you don't give a damn and will make up your own conclusions.

I am done. And America wonders why non-European countries despise us and question are motives. It's because we don't give a flying damn about anybody else as evidenced by not only the lack of knowledge but the refusal to even pick up a damn book!

Not to worry. I am done with this thread.

Oh bullshit. I am interested and have repeatedly asked you to back up your claims that people of Native American descent aren't allowed to make their own claims about their identity. You're refusing to offer anything besides unsubstantiated hysterics.

FWIW I'm mixed, and while one of my backgrounds is European in origin, it's not the predominant side I personally have been brought up with or chosen to associate with. But let me guess - you know me better than my own self, and think you ought to define my own identity for me, right?

NP here. What does Native American heritage have to do with you? Why does anybody have to justify themselves to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

I'm not a white American, though I am mixed/biracial. My own search about my backgrounds is my own - not my relatives from either side, not my parents, not some monolithic ethnic group (since that doesn't exist). I don't necessarily think that seeking out an identity is unimportant, but however anyone defines themselves isn't irrelevant - it's on an individual to decide for themselves. If Veronica grows up to decide that it's irrelevant, so be it. Lots of people of various heritages do. If she decides to embrace her minute fraction of Native American background, so be it. It would her decision alone. If she decides to embrace her Hispanic heritage, it's again her decision alone. If she embraces all or none of her multiple backgrounds, or some and not others, or changes her mind at different times in her life, that's Veronica's choice alone.

I feel like there's some weird ownership/property thing going on - the Cherokee Nation doesn't get to "claim" Veronica, or decide for her, that she's one of them. That's her decision to make when she's older.

I can't even comment as you apparently haven't even picked up a history book or attempted to even understand why 'she's one of them'. This is always the problem...people who go on without obtaining facts to argue their point. Please pick up a history book, any history book, on Native Americans and then debate your point. But only those who, like yourself, have not bothered to even read Cherokee or Native American laws or treaties with the American government will always go by what they "think" is right, not fact.

Native Americans are more than just a figurehead for a football team.

So Veronica herself, or people of Native American descent don't get to decide for themselves about their personal level of belonging? Seriously? Can you give me an exact citation for themselves?

Well, you are out you aren't. You don't choose your level of belonging.

http://www.cherokee.org/Services/TribalCitizenship/Citizenship.aspx

Can you point directly to a citation where "you don't choose your level of belonging?" The links you post discuss application *INTO* the Cherokee Nation. They don't discuss basically someone having x-amount of ancestry being forbidden from "opting out" of belonging. From that link, there doesn't seem to be anything indicating that people aren't allowed to choose not to be a part of or not individually recognize their ancestry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

I'm not a white American, though I am mixed/biracial. My own search about my backgrounds is my own - not my relatives from either side, not my parents, not some monolithic ethnic group (since that doesn't exist). I don't necessarily think that seeking out an identity is unimportant, but however anyone defines themselves isn't irrelevant - it's on an individual to decide for themselves. If Veronica grows up to decide that it's irrelevant, so be it. Lots of people of various heritages do. If she decides to embrace her minute fraction of Native American background, so be it. It would her decision alone. If she decides to embrace her Hispanic heritage, it's again her decision alone. If she embraces all or none of her multiple backgrounds, or some and not others, or changes her mind at different times in her life, that's Veronica's choice alone.

I feel like there's some weird ownership/property thing going on - the Cherokee Nation doesn't get to "claim" Veronica, or decide for her, that she's one of them. That's her decision to make when she's older.

I can't even comment as you apparently haven't even picked up a history book or attempted to even understand why 'she's one of them'. This is always the problem...people who go on without obtaining facts to argue their point. Please pick up a history book, any history book, on Native Americans and then debate your point. But only those who, like yourself, have not bothered to even read Cherokee or Native American laws or treaties with the American government will always go by what they "think" is right, not fact.

Native Americans are more than just a figurehead for a football team.

So Veronica herself, or people of Native American descent don't get to decide for themselves about their personal level of belonging? Seriously? Can you give me an exact citation for themselves?

Pick up a book or go on the internet about Native Americans and how they define their heritage and those who are considered part of the Indian nation.

Nobody's going to do your homework for you. Didn't you even learn that in school?

PP again. After reading such unsubstantiated comments about Native Americans (or lack of knowledge from posters), it is obvious that not only are you not even interested in the history but you don't give a damn and will make up your own conclusions.

I am done. And America wonders why non-European countries despise us and question are motives. It's because we don't give a flying damn about anybody else as evidenced by not only the lack of knowledge but the refusal to even pick up a damn book!

Not to worry. I am done with this thread.

Oh bullshit. I am interested and have repeatedly asked you to back up your claims that people of Native American descent aren't allowed to make their own claims about their identity. You're refusing to offer anything besides unsubstantiated hysterics.

FWIW I'm mixed, and while one of my backgrounds is European in origin, it's not the predominant side I personally have been brought up with or chosen to associate with. But let me guess - you know me better than my own self, and think you ought to define my own identity for me, right?

NP here. What does Native American heritage have to do with you? Why does anybody have to justify themselves to you?

Nobody has to justify themselves to me. Nobody has to justify their ancestry to anyone. Nobody has the right to choose anyone else's identity belonging, including Veronica. It's hers to decide on her own, likely when she's older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

I'm not a white American, though I am mixed/biracial. My own search about my backgrounds is my own - not my relatives from either side, not my parents, not some monolithic ethnic group (since that doesn't exist). I don't necessarily think that seeking out an identity is unimportant, but however anyone defines themselves isn't irrelevant - it's on an individual to decide for themselves. If Veronica grows up to decide that it's irrelevant, so be it. Lots of people of various heritages do. If she decides to embrace her minute fraction of Native American background, so be it. It would her decision alone. If she decides to embrace her Hispanic heritage, it's again her decision alone. If she embraces all or none of her multiple backgrounds, or some and not others, or changes her mind at different times in her life, that's Veronica's choice alone.

I feel like there's some weird ownership/property thing going on - the Cherokee Nation doesn't get to "claim" Veronica, or decide for her, that she's one of them. That's her decision to make when she's older.

I can't even comment as you apparently haven't even picked up a history book or attempted to even understand why 'she's one of them'. This is always the problem...people who go on without obtaining facts to argue their point. Please pick up a history book, any history book, on Native Americans and then debate your point. But only those who, like yourself, have not bothered to even read Cherokee or Native American laws or treaties with the American government will always go by what they "think" is right, not fact.

Native Americans are more than just a figurehead for a football team.

So Veronica herself, or people of Native American descent don't get to decide for themselves about their personal level of belonging? Seriously? Can you give me an exact citation for themselves?

Well, you are out you aren't. You don't choose your level of belonging.

http://www.cherokee.org/Services/TribalCitizenship/Citizenship.aspx

Can you point directly to a citation where "you don't choose your level of belonging?" The links you post discuss application *INTO* the Cherokee Nation. They don't discuss basically someone having x-amount of ancestry being forbidden from "opting out" of belonging. From that link, there doesn't seem to be anything indicating that people aren't allowed to choose not to be a part of or not individually recognize their ancestry.

Why don't you just contact the Bureau of Indian Affairs for definitive information instead of battling it out here? That's like trying to debate whether you think it should be black, African-American, Negro, Colored, biracial, etc. People define themselves within their communities. Like it or leave it. They have the last say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

I'm not a white American, though I am mixed/biracial. My own search about my backgrounds is my own - not my relatives from either side, not my parents, not some monolithic ethnic group (since that doesn't exist). I don't necessarily think that seeking out an identity is unimportant, but however anyone defines themselves isn't irrelevant - it's on an individual to decide for themselves. If Veronica grows up to decide that it's irrelevant, so be it. Lots of people of various heritages do. If she decides to embrace her minute fraction of Native American background, so be it. It would her decision alone. If she decides to embrace her Hispanic heritage, it's again her decision alone. If she embraces all or none of her multiple backgrounds, or some and not others, or changes her mind at different times in her life, that's Veronica's choice alone.

I feel like there's some weird ownership/property thing going on - the Cherokee Nation doesn't get to "claim" Veronica, or decide for her, that she's one of them. That's her decision to make when she's older.

I can't even comment as you apparently haven't even picked up a history book or attempted to even understand why 'she's one of them'. This is always the problem...people who go on without obtaining facts to argue their point. Please pick up a history book, any history book, on Native Americans and then debate your point. But only those who, like yourself, have not bothered to even read Cherokee or Native American laws or treaties with the American government will always go by what they "think" is right, not fact.

Native Americans are more than just a figurehead for a football team.

So Veronica herself, or people of Native American descent don't get to decide for themselves about their personal level of belonging? Seriously? Can you give me an exact citation for themselves?

Well, you are out you aren't. You don't choose your level of belonging.

http://www.cherokee.org/Services/TribalCitizenship/Citizenship.aspx

Can you point directly to a citation where "you don't choose your level of belonging?" The links you post discuss application *INTO* the Cherokee Nation. They don't discuss basically someone having x-amount of ancestry being forbidden from "opting out" of belonging. From that link, there doesn't seem to be anything indicating that people aren't allowed to choose not to be a part of or not individually recognize their ancestry.

Why don't you just contact the Bureau of Indian Affairs for definitive information instead of battling it out here? That's like trying to debate whether you think it should be black, African-American, Negro, Colored, biracial, etc. People define themselves within their communities. Like it or leave it. They have the last say.

Of course people define themselves - that's exactly what I've been saying. But do you not think people should be allowed to choose their own community/communities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

I'm not a white American, though I am mixed/biracial. My own search about my backgrounds is my own - not my relatives from either side, not my parents, not some monolithic ethnic group (since that doesn't exist). I don't necessarily think that seeking out an identity is unimportant, but however anyone defines themselves isn't irrelevant - it's on an individual to decide for themselves. If Veronica grows up to decide that it's irrelevant, so be it. Lots of people of various heritages do. If she decides to embrace her minute fraction of Native American background, so be it. It would her decision alone. If she decides to embrace her Hispanic heritage, it's again her decision alone. If she embraces all or none of her multiple backgrounds, or some and not others, or changes her mind at different times in her life, that's Veronica's choice alone.

I feel like there's some weird ownership/property thing going on - the Cherokee Nation doesn't get to "claim" Veronica, or decide for her, that she's one of them. That's her decision to make when she's older.

I can't even comment as you apparently haven't even picked up a history book or attempted to even understand why 'she's one of them'. This is always the problem...people who go on without obtaining facts to argue their point. Please pick up a history book, any history book, on Native Americans and then debate your point. But only those who, like yourself, have not bothered to even read Cherokee or Native American laws or treaties with the American government will always go by what they "think" is right, not fact.

Native Americans are more than just a figurehead for a football team.

So Veronica herself, or people of Native American descent don't get to decide for themselves about their personal level of belonging? Seriously? Can you give me an exact citation for themselves?

Well, you are out you aren't. You don't choose your level of belonging.

http://www.cherokee.org/Services/TribalCitizenship/Citizenship.aspx

Can you point directly to a citation where "you don't choose your level of belonging?" The links you post discuss application *INTO* the Cherokee Nation. They don't discuss basically someone having x-amount of ancestry being forbidden from "opting out" of belonging. From that link, there doesn't seem to be anything indicating that people aren't allowed to choose not to be a part of or not individually recognize their ancestry.

Why don't you just contact the Bureau of Indian Affairs for definitive information instead of battling it out here? That's like trying to debate whether you think it should be black, African-American, Negro, Colored, biracial, etc. People define themselves within their communities. Like it or leave it. They have the last say.

[Anonymous]

^^^Contacting the Bureau of Indian Affairs for solid, correct information would be too simple. Better to fight it out on DCUM throwing all kinds of information out there, right or wrong.

[Anonymous]

In parenting you cannot just change your mind and suddenly decide you want your kid. The girl belongs with the family that always wanted her and tended to her during the most trying and difficult times (infancy).

[Anonymous]

8:18 here -- It's not really relevant that Veronica is a citizen of the Cherokee Nation, according to the Supreme Court. But to the poster who is concerned about Veronica's self-identification as an adult, she is welcome to self-identify as white, hispanic, Cherokee, or anything. To be a CITIZEN of the Cherokee Nation, which includes certain benefits (monetary, etc.), then you need to qualify, which she does.

What more information do you need, PP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

I'm not a white American, though I am mixed/biracial. My own search about my backgrounds is my own - not my relatives from either side, not my parents, not some monolithic ethnic group (since that doesn't exist). I don't necessarily think that seeking out an identity is unimportant, but however anyone defines themselves isn't irrelevant - it's on an individual to decide for themselves. If Veronica grows up to decide that it's irrelevant, so be it. Lots of people of various heritages do. If she decides to embrace her minute fraction of Native American background, so be it. It would her decision alone. If she decides to embrace her Hispanic heritage, it's again her decision alone. If she embraces all or none of her multiple backgrounds, or some and not others, or changes her mind at different times in her life, that's Veronica's choice alone.

I feel like there's some weird ownership/property thing going on - the Cherokee Nation doesn't get to "claim" Veronica, or decide for her, that she's one of them. That's her decision to make when she's older.

I can't even comment as you apparently haven't even picked up a history book or attempted to even understand why 'she's one of them'. This is always the problem...people who go on without obtaining facts to argue their point. Please pick up a history book, any history book, on Native Americans and then debate your point. But only those who, like yourself, have not bothered to even read Cherokee or Native American laws or treaties with the American government will always go by what they "think" is right, not fact.

Native Americans are more than just a figurehead for a football team.

So Veronica herself, or people of Native American descent don't get to decide for themselves about their personal level of belonging? Seriously? Can you give me an exact citation for themselves?

Well, you are out you aren't. You don't choose your level of belonging.

http://www.cherokee.org/Services/TribalCitizenship/Citizenship.aspx

Can you point directly to a citation where "you don't choose your level of belonging?" The links you post discuss application *INTO* the Cherokee Nation. They don't discuss basically someone having x-amount of ancestry being forbidden from "opting out" of belonging. From that link, there doesn't seem to be anything indicating that people aren't allowed to choose not to be a part of or not individually recognize their ancestry.

Why don't you just contact the Bureau of Indian Affairs for definitive information instead of battling it out here? That's like trying to debate whether you think it should be black, African-American, Negro, Colored, biracial, etc. People define themselves within their communities. Like it or leave it. They have the last say.

Of course people define themselves - that's exactly what I've been saying. [b]But do you not think people should be allowed to choose their own community/communities? [b]

Absolutely. We live in communities now but this is different. Some communities are integrated, some not. We are talking about an ethnic group that has rules and regs whose sole purpose is the continuation of the race and to make sure that people who are of Cherokee or any Indian descent are welcomed to be a part of the historical legacy. Sort of like the 'one-drop' rule with African-Americans which the U.S. government said if you have one drop of black blood (doesn't matter how fair skinned you are), you are black.

I'm not sure why the Native American legacy is such an issue. A previous poster mentioned Jewish ethnicity. Jews has maintained this ideology since time immemoriam since they were always being annihilated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In parenting you cannot just change your mind and suddenly decide you want your kid. The girl belongs with the family that always wanted her and tended to her during the most trying and difficult times (infancy).

That's an interesting way to look at it. So the one who tends an infant gets to keep it, or only in this instance (where the adoption was finalized quite recently, in the past month)?