FCPS closed Monday

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighborhood is about a 20 minute walk to the high school. The majority of the sidewalks, that line roads to the school have not been plowed. We do not have bus service (that pesky 1 mile radius rule). There is no way the kids can make it to the high school. The sidewalk area next to the main crosswalk to cross a major road, is full of ice. We drove past the high school this morning. The parking spots are cleared, but the sidewalks leading into the school are packed with ice. Do you expect the kids to walk on the aslphalt, along with a bunch if new drivers? Also, what is up with people assuming teachers would have to help clear the ice/snow!? That is ridiculous!

Reid expects the parents will do it. Why not the teachers?

It is not their job! Period, end of story. My kid has a teacher that walks with a cane. Should he go out, cut through the ice and shovel it?! Should that job be only for the younger healthier teachers? Did they go to college for 5+ years to end up being forced to clean up the snow? They didn’t sign up for that job! You signed up to have kids.

It’s not the parents job either, but that didn’t stop Reid from telling them to get out and shovel.

Teachers can go out and break up the ice/snowcrete on sidewalks/at bus stops in their own neighborhoods--if the community spirit moves them--just like accountants, software engineers, grocery cashiers, retail managers, lawyers, realtors, doctors, waitstaff, chefs, dentists, SAHM, landscape company owners, florists and mechanics can.

FCPS's email specified that they would like people to take care of the areas outside of its area of responsibility, which is school grounds. I don't care for Gatehouse either, but let's not misrepresent their communications. They suck enough in reality.

Is everything in FCPS responsibility done? Including public sidewalks leading to schools? I don’t see how Reid can tell parents they should shovel out public bus stops but not expect the FCPS staff who work for her to put in a few hours on a day they’re being paid.

No, in fact, the faculty are professionals who have contracts that outline their roles and duties and “shoveling sidewalks for angry parents” is not among them. They’re not indentured servants who can be assigned any task that dumb people on message boards dream up in frustration.

This response exemplifies the problem with FCPS and its defenders.

You can cry all you want- contracts are legally binding documents that prevent employers from being able to abuse you by doing things like forcing you to shovel snow on school property when you were hired to teach. You need to get a grip on reality.

I am an employment lawyer. I certainly have a grip on this reality. So you can stop your lecture.

You can focus on the contract. Or you can focus on the practical reality. The most successful workplaces generally have employers and employees that take the latter approach.

Here, there is a problem (need to clear school walkways and lots). There is also a large workforce that can be part of the solution. The answer seems obvious.

An example: I went to a smaller private day school (not in this area). After big snowstorms, the faculty and the principal (even nearby parents/students) always pitched in to help our maintenance department clear the school grounds. The school would give everyone a free pizza lunch. It was fun and effective. The result: we always reopened quickly after storms. It was a win-win for everyone.

That’s the reality — you can either focus on what everyone can do to help schools be open or try and push the problem off to someone else. FCPS and its defenders too often take the second path.

Ok lawyer. Let me know how cool you think it is when your client gets upset with you so your firm has you go clean the toilets.

I have no idea what analogy you are trying to make but let me keep it simple. Law firms need to serve their clients to stay in business. If I needed to help shovel out the office to help us stay open, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Employees’ rights are a big word for Elmo. YOU are arguing for an employer (FCPS) to force teachers to shovel snow because “they’re getting paid to work” and you justify this by saying you would (supposedly) happily volunteer to go clean toilets or shovel or do whatever to maintain your company’s building to serve your clients. Compulsory labor that violates a contract is not the same thing as saying “hey, anyone want to come in and help shovel?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighborhood is about a 20 minute walk to the high school. The majority of the sidewalks, that line roads to the school have not been plowed. We do not have bus service (that pesky 1 mile radius rule). There is no way the kids can make it to the high school. The sidewalk area next to the main crosswalk to cross a major road, is full of ice. We drove past the high school this morning. The parking spots are cleared, but the sidewalks leading into the school are packed with ice. Do you expect the kids to walk on the aslphalt, along with a bunch if new drivers? Also, what is up with people assuming teachers would have to help clear the ice/snow!? That is ridiculous!

Reid expects the parents will do it. Why not the teachers?

It is not their job! Period, end of story. My kid has a teacher that walks with a cane. Should he go out, cut through the ice and shovel it?! Should that job be only for the younger healthier teachers? Did they go to college for 5+ years to end up being forced to clean up the snow? They didn’t sign up for that job! You signed up to have kids.

It’s not the parents job either, but that didn’t stop Reid from telling them to get out and shovel.

Teachers can go out and break up the ice/snowcrete on sidewalks/at bus stops in their own neighborhoods--if the community spirit moves them--just like accountants, software engineers, grocery cashiers, retail managers, lawyers, realtors, doctors, waitstaff, chefs, dentists, SAHM, landscape company owners, florists and mechanics can.

FCPS's email specified that they would like people to take care of the areas outside of its area of responsibility, which is school grounds. I don't care for Gatehouse either, but let's not misrepresent their communications. They suck enough in reality.

Is everything in FCPS responsibility done? Including public sidewalks leading to schools? I don’t see how Reid can tell parents they should shovel out public bus stops but not expect the FCPS staff who work for her to put in a few hours on a day they’re being paid.

No, in fact, the faculty are professionals who have contracts that outline their roles and duties and “shoveling sidewalks for angry parents” is not among them. They’re not indentured servants who can be assigned any task that dumb people on message boards dream up in frustration.

This response exemplifies the problem with FCPS and its defenders.

You can cry all you want- contracts are legally binding documents that prevent employers from being able to abuse you by doing things like forcing you to shovel snow on school property when you were hired to teach. You need to get a grip on reality.

I am an employment lawyer. I certainly have a grip on this reality. So you can stop your lecture.

You can focus on the contract. Or you can focus on the practical reality. The most successful workplaces generally have employers and employees that take the latter approach.

Here, there is a problem (need to clear school walkways and lots). There is also a large workforce that can be part of the solution. The answer seems obvious.

An example: I went to a smaller private day school (not in this area). After big snowstorms, the faculty and the principal (even nearby parents/students) always pitched in to help our maintenance department clear the school grounds. The school would give everyone a free pizza lunch. It was fun and effective. The result: we always reopened quickly after storms. It was a win-win for everyone.

That’s the reality — you can either focus on what everyone can do to help schools be open or try and push the problem off to someone else. FCPS and its defenders too often take the second path.

Ok lawyer. Let me know how cool you think it is when your client gets upset with you so your firm has you go clean the toilets.

I have no idea what analogy you are trying to make but let me keep it simple. Law firms need to serve their clients to stay in business. If I needed to help shovel out the office to help us stay open, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Employees’ rights are a big word for Elmo. YOU are arguing for an employer (FCPS) to force teachers to shovel snow because “they’re getting paid to work” and you justify this by saying you would (supposedly) happily volunteer to go clean toilets or shovel or do whatever to maintain your company’s building to serve your clients. Compulsory labor that violates a contract is not the same thing as saying “hey, anyone want to come in and help shovel?”

I understand from this board the teachers are routinely expected to carry on custodial tasks. Which is why they routinely request cleaning supplies from the parents. I personally don’t see how shoveling is different from washing desks in that both are not part of the teacher’s contract, but expected tasks to make the class function.

[Anonymous]

and teachers wonder why they "don't get paid much" when they only work 7 months out of the year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighborhood is about a 20 minute walk to the high school. The majority of the sidewalks, that line roads to the school have not been plowed. We do not have bus service (that pesky 1 mile radius rule). There is no way the kids can make it to the high school. The sidewalk area next to the main crosswalk to cross a major road, is full of ice. We drove past the high school this morning. The parking spots are cleared, but the sidewalks leading into the school are packed with ice. Do you expect the kids to walk on the aslphalt, along with a bunch if new drivers? Also, what is up with people assuming teachers would have to help clear the ice/snow!? That is ridiculous!

Reid expects the parents will do it. Why not the teachers?

It is not their job! Period, end of story. My kid has a teacher that walks with a cane. Should he go out, cut through the ice and shovel it?! Should that job be only for the younger healthier teachers? Did they go to college for 5+ years to end up being forced to clean up the snow? They didn’t sign up for that job! You signed up to have kids.

It’s not the parents job either, but that didn’t stop Reid from telling them to get out and shovel.

Teachers can go out and break up the ice/snowcrete on sidewalks/at bus stops in their own neighborhoods--if the community spirit moves them--just like accountants, software engineers, grocery cashiers, retail managers, lawyers, realtors, doctors, waitstaff, chefs, dentists, SAHM, landscape company owners, florists and mechanics can.

FCPS's email specified that they would like people to take care of the areas outside of its area of responsibility, which is school grounds. I don't care for Gatehouse either, but let's not misrepresent their communications. They suck enough in reality.

Is everything in FCPS responsibility done? Including public sidewalks leading to schools? I don’t see how Reid can tell parents they should shovel out public bus stops but not expect the FCPS staff who work for her to put in a few hours on a day they’re being paid.

No, in fact, the faculty are professionals who have contracts that outline their roles and duties and “shoveling sidewalks for angry parents” is not among them. They’re not indentured servants who can be assigned any task that dumb people on message boards dream up in frustration.

This response exemplifies the problem with FCPS and its defenders.

You can cry all you want- contracts are legally binding documents that prevent employers from being able to abuse you by doing things like forcing you to shovel snow on school property when you were hired to teach. You need to get a grip on reality.

I am an employment lawyer. I certainly have a grip on this reality. So you can stop your lecture.

You can focus on the contract. Or you can focus on the practical reality. The most successful workplaces generally have employers and employees that take the latter approach.

Here, there is a problem (need to clear school walkways and lots). There is also a large workforce that can be part of the solution. The answer seems obvious.

An example: I went to a smaller private day school (not in this area). After big snowstorms, the faculty and the principal (even nearby parents/students) always pitched in to help our maintenance department clear the school grounds. The school would give everyone a free pizza lunch. It was fun and effective. The result: we always reopened quickly after storms. It was a win-win for everyone.

That’s the reality — you can either focus on what everyone can do to help schools be open or try and push the problem off to someone else. FCPS and its defenders too often take the second path.

I doubt that you work near law thing.
This entire problem is not about school ground.
It is more about how to safely bring kids to school from their home…. And school is not responsible to clean hundreds miles of sidewalk and streets within their zone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighborhood is about a 20 minute walk to the high school. The majority of the sidewalks, that line roads to the school have not been plowed. We do not have bus service (that pesky 1 mile radius rule). There is no way the kids can make it to the high school. The sidewalk area next to the main crosswalk to cross a major road, is full of ice. We drove past the high school this morning. The parking spots are cleared, but the sidewalks leading into the school are packed with ice. Do you expect the kids to walk on the aslphalt, along with a bunch if new drivers? Also, what is up with people assuming teachers would have to help clear the ice/snow!? That is ridiculous!

Reid expects the parents will do it. Why not the teachers?

It is not their job! Period, end of story. My kid has a teacher that walks with a cane. Should he go out, cut through the ice and shovel it?! Should that job be only for the younger healthier teachers? Did they go to college for 5+ years to end up being forced to clean up the snow? They didn’t sign up for that job! You signed up to have kids.

It’s not the parents job either, but that didn’t stop Reid from telling them to get out and shovel.

Teachers can go out and break up the ice/snowcrete on sidewalks/at bus stops in their own neighborhoods--if the community spirit moves them--just like accountants, software engineers, grocery cashiers, retail managers, lawyers, realtors, doctors, waitstaff, chefs, dentists, SAHM, landscape company owners, florists and mechanics can.

FCPS's email specified that they would like people to take care of the areas outside of its area of responsibility, which is school grounds. I don't care for Gatehouse either, but let's not misrepresent their communications. They suck enough in reality.

Is everything in FCPS responsibility done? Including public sidewalks leading to schools? I don’t see how Reid can tell parents they should shovel out public bus stops but not expect the FCPS staff who work for her to put in a few hours on a day they’re being paid.

No, in fact, the faculty are professionals who have contracts that outline their roles and duties and “shoveling sidewalks for angry parents” is not among them. They’re not indentured servants who can be assigned any task that dumb people on message boards dream up in frustration.

This response exemplifies the problem with FCPS and its defenders.

You can cry all you want- contracts are legally binding documents that prevent employers from being able to abuse you by doing things like forcing you to shovel snow on school property when you were hired to teach. You need to get a grip on reality.

I am an employment lawyer. I certainly have a grip on this reality. So you can stop your lecture.

You can focus on the contract. Or you can focus on the practical reality. The most successful workplaces generally have employers and employees that take the latter approach.

Here, there is a problem (need to clear school walkways and lots). There is also a large workforce that can be part of the solution. The answer seems obvious.

An example: I went to a smaller private day school (not in this area). After big snowstorms, the faculty and the principal (even nearby parents/students) always pitched in to help our maintenance department clear the school grounds. The school would give everyone a free pizza lunch. It was fun and effective. The result: we always reopened quickly after storms. It was a win-win for everyone.

That’s the reality — you can either focus on what everyone can do to help schools be open or try and push the problem off to someone else. FCPS and its defenders too often take the second path.

Ok lawyer. Let me know how cool you think it is when your client gets upset with you so your firm has you go clean the toilets.

I have no idea what analogy you are trying to make but let me keep it simple. Law firms need to serve their clients to stay in business. If I needed to help shovel out the office to help us stay open, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Employees’ rights are a big word for Elmo. YOU are arguing for an employer (FCPS) to force teachers to shovel snow because “they’re getting paid to work” and you justify this by saying you would (supposedly) happily volunteer to go clean toilets or shovel or do whatever to maintain your company’s building to serve your clients. Compulsory labor that violates a contract is not the same thing as saying “hey, anyone want to come in and help shovel?”

I understand from this board the teachers are routinely expected to carry on custodial tasks. Which is why they routinely request cleaning supplies from the parents. I personally don’t see how shoveling is different from washing desks in that both are not part of the teacher’s contract, but expected tasks to make the class function.

You do see the difference between teachers requesting tissues for the classroom and teachers being forced to shovel snow. You do: you’re just bored and being obtuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:and teachers wonder why they "don't get paid much" when they only work 7 months out of the year

I find blaming the teachers for this incredibly tiresome. I was at a gathering with a teacher (also a parent of a kid in my kid's grade) and she also wanted to go back to school. Teachers cannot control the weather or the road plowing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighborhood is about a 20 minute walk to the high school. The majority of the sidewalks, that line roads to the school have not been plowed. We do not have bus service (that pesky 1 mile radius rule). There is no way the kids can make it to the high school. The sidewalk area next to the main crosswalk to cross a major road, is full of ice. We drove past the high school this morning. The parking spots are cleared, but the sidewalks leading into the school are packed with ice. Do you expect the kids to walk on the aslphalt, along with a bunch if new drivers? Also, what is up with people assuming teachers would have to help clear the ice/snow!? That is ridiculous!

Reid expects the parents will do it. Why not the teachers?

It is not their job! Period, end of story. My kid has a teacher that walks with a cane. Should he go out, cut through the ice and shovel it?! Should that job be only for the younger healthier teachers? Did they go to college for 5+ years to end up being forced to clean up the snow? They didn’t sign up for that job! You signed up to have kids.

It’s not the parents job either, but that didn’t stop Reid from telling them to get out and shovel.

Teachers can go out and break up the ice/snowcrete on sidewalks/at bus stops in their own neighborhoods--if the community spirit moves them--just like accountants, software engineers, grocery cashiers, retail managers, lawyers, realtors, doctors, waitstaff, chefs, dentists, SAHM, landscape company owners, florists and mechanics can.

FCPS's email specified that they would like people to take care of the areas outside of its area of responsibility, which is school grounds. I don't care for Gatehouse either, but let's not misrepresent their communications. They suck enough in reality.

Is everything in FCPS responsibility done? Including public sidewalks leading to schools? I don’t see how Reid can tell parents they should shovel out public bus stops but not expect the FCPS staff who work for her to put in a few hours on a day they’re being paid.

No, in fact, the faculty are professionals who have contracts that outline their roles and duties and “shoveling sidewalks for angry parents” is not among them. They’re not indentured servants who can be assigned any task that dumb people on message boards dream up in frustration.

This response exemplifies the problem with FCPS and its defenders.

You can cry all you want- contracts are legally binding documents that prevent employers from being able to abuse you by doing things like forcing you to shovel snow on school property when you were hired to teach. You need to get a grip on reality.

+1

I suspect that PP would be a tad upset if their place of employment called employees in to shovel.

But let’s be honest. Most posters here don’t understand teaching, teaching contracts, etc.

Most places at work, expect their employees to work. Teachers are the only group not expected to either report to the office, or work remotely. I do think it would be a better use of time to work remotely and get rid of these absurd early releases, but I think it’s a vast waste of resources to have people sitting home while there’s work to be done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighborhood is about a 20 minute walk to the high school. The majority of the sidewalks, that line roads to the school have not been plowed. We do not have bus service (that pesky 1 mile radius rule). There is no way the kids can make it to the high school. The sidewalk area next to the main crosswalk to cross a major road, is full of ice. We drove past the high school this morning. The parking spots are cleared, but the sidewalks leading into the school are packed with ice. Do you expect the kids to walk on the aslphalt, along with a bunch if new drivers? Also, what is up with people assuming teachers would have to help clear the ice/snow!? That is ridiculous!

Reid expects the parents will do it. Why not the teachers?

It is not their job! Period, end of story. My kid has a teacher that walks with a cane. Should he go out, cut through the ice and shovel it?! Should that job be only for the younger healthier teachers? Did they go to college for 5+ years to end up being forced to clean up the snow? They didn’t sign up for that job! You signed up to have kids.

It’s not the parents job either, but that didn’t stop Reid from telling them to get out and shovel.

Teachers can go out and break up the ice/snowcrete on sidewalks/at bus stops in their own neighborhoods--if the community spirit moves them--just like accountants, software engineers, grocery cashiers, retail managers, lawyers, realtors, doctors, waitstaff, chefs, dentists, SAHM, landscape company owners, florists and mechanics can.

FCPS's email specified that they would like people to take care of the areas outside of its area of responsibility, which is school grounds. I don't care for Gatehouse either, but let's not misrepresent their communications. They suck enough in reality.

Is everything in FCPS responsibility done? Including public sidewalks leading to schools? I don’t see how Reid can tell parents they should shovel out public bus stops but not expect the FCPS staff who work for her to put in a few hours on a day they’re being paid.

No, in fact, the faculty are professionals who have contracts that outline their roles and duties and “shoveling sidewalks for angry parents” is not among them. They’re not indentured servants who can be assigned any task that dumb people on message boards dream up in frustration.

This response exemplifies the problem with FCPS and its defenders.

You can cry all you want- contracts are legally binding documents that prevent employers from being able to abuse you by doing things like forcing you to shovel snow on school property when you were hired to teach. You need to get a grip on reality.

I am an employment lawyer. I certainly have a grip on this reality. So you can stop your lecture.

You can focus on the contract. Or you can focus on the practical reality. The most successful workplaces generally have employers and employees that take the latter approach.

Here, there is a problem (need to clear school walkways and lots). There is also a large workforce that can be part of the solution. The answer seems obvious.

An example: I went to a smaller private day school (not in this area). After big snowstorms, the faculty and the principal (even nearby parents/students) always pitched in to help our maintenance department clear the school grounds. The school would give everyone a free pizza lunch. It was fun and effective. The result: we always reopened quickly after storms. It was a win-win for everyone.

That’s the reality — you can either focus on what everyone can do to help schools be open or try and push the problem off to someone else. FCPS and its defenders too often take the second path.

Ok lawyer. Let me know how cool you think it is when your client gets upset with you so your firm has you go clean the toilets.

I have no idea what analogy you are trying to make but let me keep it simple. Law firms need to serve their clients to stay in business. If I needed to help shovel out the office to help us stay open, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Employees’ rights are a big word for Elmo. YOU are arguing for an employer (FCPS) to force teachers to shovel snow because “they’re getting paid to work” and you justify this by saying you would (supposedly) happily volunteer to go clean toilets or shovel or do whatever to maintain your company’s building to serve your clients. Compulsory labor that violates a contract is not the same thing as saying “hey, anyone want to come in and help shovel?”

No. I am saying that FCPS should ask teachers (voluntarily) to pitch in. And suggesting that teachers (and their union) should be willing to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighborhood is about a 20 minute walk to the high school. The majority of the sidewalks, that line roads to the school have not been plowed. We do not have bus service (that pesky 1 mile radius rule). There is no way the kids can make it to the high school. The sidewalk area next to the main crosswalk to cross a major road, is full of ice. We drove past the high school this morning. The parking spots are cleared, but the sidewalks leading into the school are packed with ice. Do you expect the kids to walk on the aslphalt, along with a bunch if new drivers? Also, what is up with people assuming teachers would have to help clear the ice/snow!? That is ridiculous!

Reid expects the parents will do it. Why not the teachers?

It is not their job! Period, end of story. My kid has a teacher that walks with a cane. Should he go out, cut through the ice and shovel it?! Should that job be only for the younger healthier teachers? Did they go to college for 5+ years to end up being forced to clean up the snow? They didn’t sign up for that job! You signed up to have kids.

It’s not the parents job either, but that didn’t stop Reid from telling them to get out and shovel.

Teachers can go out and break up the ice/snowcrete on sidewalks/at bus stops in their own neighborhoods--if the community spirit moves them--just like accountants, software engineers, grocery cashiers, retail managers, lawyers, realtors, doctors, waitstaff, chefs, dentists, SAHM, landscape company owners, florists and mechanics can.

FCPS's email specified that they would like people to take care of the areas outside of its area of responsibility, which is school grounds. I don't care for Gatehouse either, but let's not misrepresent their communications. They suck enough in reality.

Is everything in FCPS responsibility done? Including public sidewalks leading to schools? I don’t see how Reid can tell parents they should shovel out public bus stops but not expect the FCPS staff who work for her to put in a few hours on a day they’re being paid.

No, in fact, the faculty are professionals who have contracts that outline their roles and duties and “shoveling sidewalks for angry parents” is not among them. They’re not indentured servants who can be assigned any task that dumb people on message boards dream up in frustration.

This response exemplifies the problem with FCPS and its defenders.

You can cry all you want- contracts are legally binding documents that prevent employers from being able to abuse you by doing things like forcing you to shovel snow on school property when you were hired to teach. You need to get a grip on reality.

I am an employment lawyer. I certainly have a grip on this reality. So you can stop your lecture.

You can focus on the contract. Or you can focus on the practical reality. The most successful workplaces generally have employers and employees that take the latter approach.

Here, there is a problem (need to clear school walkways and lots). There is also a large workforce that can be part of the solution. The answer seems obvious.

An example: I went to a smaller private day school (not in this area). After big snowstorms, the faculty and the principal (even nearby parents/students) always pitched in to help our maintenance department clear the school grounds. The school would give everyone a free pizza lunch. It was fun and effective. The result: we always reopened quickly after storms. It was a win-win for everyone.

That’s the reality — you can either focus on what everyone can do to help schools be open or try and push the problem off to someone else. FCPS and its defenders too often take the second path.

Ok lawyer. Let me know how cool you think it is when your client gets upset with you so your firm has you go clean the toilets.

I have no idea what analogy you are trying to make but let me keep it simple. Law firms need to serve their clients to stay in business. If I needed to help shovel out the office to help us stay open, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Employees’ rights are a big word for Elmo. YOU are arguing for an employer (FCPS) to force teachers to shovel snow because “they’re getting paid to work” and you justify this by saying you would (supposedly) happily volunteer to go clean toilets or shovel or do whatever to maintain your company’s building to serve your clients. Compulsory labor that violates a contract is not the same thing as saying “hey, anyone want to come in and help shovel?”

I understand from this board the teachers are routinely expected to carry on custodial tasks. Which is why they routinely request cleaning supplies from the parents. I personally don’t see how shoveling is different from washing desks in that both are not part of the teacher’s contract, but expected tasks to make the class function.

You do see the difference between teachers requesting tissues for the classroom and teachers being forced to shovel snow. You do: you’re just bored and being obtuse.

Tissues, sure. But our school requests multiple containers of Clorox wipes. I do not see the difference between washing equipment and shoveling— both are clearly custodial tasks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighborhood is about a 20 minute walk to the high school. The majority of the sidewalks, that line roads to the school have not been plowed. We do not have bus service (that pesky 1 mile radius rule). There is no way the kids can make it to the high school. The sidewalk area next to the main crosswalk to cross a major road, is full of ice. We drove past the high school this morning. The parking spots are cleared, but the sidewalks leading into the school are packed with ice. Do you expect the kids to walk on the aslphalt, along with a bunch if new drivers? Also, what is up with people assuming teachers would have to help clear the ice/snow!? That is ridiculous!

Reid expects the parents will do it. Why not the teachers?

It is not their job! Period, end of story. My kid has a teacher that walks with a cane. Should he go out, cut through the ice and shovel it?! Should that job be only for the younger healthier teachers? Did they go to college for 5+ years to end up being forced to clean up the snow? They didn’t sign up for that job! You signed up to have kids.

It’s not the parents job either, but that didn’t stop Reid from telling them to get out and shovel.

Teachers can go out and break up the ice/snowcrete on sidewalks/at bus stops in their own neighborhoods--if the community spirit moves them--just like accountants, software engineers, grocery cashiers, retail managers, lawyers, realtors, doctors, waitstaff, chefs, dentists, SAHM, landscape company owners, florists and mechanics can.

FCPS's email specified that they would like people to take care of the areas outside of its area of responsibility, which is school grounds. I don't care for Gatehouse either, but let's not misrepresent their communications. They suck enough in reality.

Is everything in FCPS responsibility done? Including public sidewalks leading to schools? I don’t see how Reid can tell parents they should shovel out public bus stops but not expect the FCPS staff who work for her to put in a few hours on a day they’re being paid.

No, in fact, the faculty are professionals who have contracts that outline their roles and duties and “shoveling sidewalks for angry parents” is not among them. They’re not indentured servants who can be assigned any task that dumb people on message boards dream up in frustration.

This response exemplifies the problem with FCPS and its defenders.

You can cry all you want- contracts are legally binding documents that prevent employers from being able to abuse you by doing things like forcing you to shovel snow on school property when you were hired to teach. You need to get a grip on reality.

I am an employment lawyer. I certainly have a grip on this reality. So you can stop your lecture.

You can focus on the contract. Or you can focus on the practical reality. The most successful workplaces generally have employers and employees that take the latter approach.

Here, there is a problem (need to clear school walkways and lots). There is also a large workforce that can be part of the solution. The answer seems obvious.

An example: I went to a smaller private day school (not in this area). After big snowstorms, the faculty and the principal (even nearby parents/students) always pitched in to help our maintenance department clear the school grounds. The school would give everyone a free pizza lunch. It was fun and effective. The result: we always reopened quickly after storms. It was a win-win for everyone.

That’s the reality — you can either focus on what everyone can do to help schools be open or try and push the problem off to someone else. FCPS and its defenders too often take the second path.

Ok lawyer. Let me know how cool you think it is when your client gets upset with you so your firm has you go clean the toilets.

I have no idea what analogy you are trying to make but let me keep it simple. Law firms need to serve their clients to stay in business. If I needed to help shovel out the office to help us stay open, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Employees’ rights are a big word for Elmo. YOU are arguing for an employer (FCPS) to force teachers to shovel snow because “they’re getting paid to work” and you justify this by saying you would (supposedly) happily volunteer to go clean toilets or shovel or do whatever to maintain your company’s building to serve your clients. Compulsory labor that violates a contract is not the same thing as saying “hey, anyone want to come in and help shovel?”

No. I am saying that FCPS should ask teachers (voluntarily) to pitch in. And suggesting that teachers (and their union) should be willing to help.

I mean the problem now goes beyond shoveling. There are solid mounds of ice. Unless those teachers own large equipment and can clear bus stops and roads I fail to see how this is a solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what exactly is going to change between monday and Tuesday. Did reid work with vdot to clear the sidewalks? How can they open school ever again without addressing the sidewalks? Maybe she should use one of her 10 body guards?

For the thousandth time, VDOT doesn’t clear sidewalks. You and your neighbors have to get out there and shovel them. No one is coming to save you. You have to have some responsibility for your community.

VDOT should remove the 8ft pile of ice slabs that they plowed into the corners of the school intersection until the sidewalks and crosswalks.

Yes, it's not the sidewalks that are the problem. They are walkable even if they are still covered. It's the giant piles of ice that are at every intersection. You're either climbing over them (not easy) or walking around them, at which point you might as well just walk on the road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighborhood is about a 20 minute walk to the high school. The majority of the sidewalks, that line roads to the school have not been plowed. We do not have bus service (that pesky 1 mile radius rule). There is no way the kids can make it to the high school. The sidewalk area next to the main crosswalk to cross a major road, is full of ice. We drove past the high school this morning. The parking spots are cleared, but the sidewalks leading into the school are packed with ice. Do you expect the kids to walk on the aslphalt, along with a bunch if new drivers? Also, what is up with people assuming teachers would have to help clear the ice/snow!? That is ridiculous!

Reid expects the parents will do it. Why not the teachers?

It is not their job! Period, end of story. My kid has a teacher that walks with a cane. Should he go out, cut through the ice and shovel it?! Should that job be only for the younger healthier teachers? Did they go to college for 5+ years to end up being forced to clean up the snow? They didn’t sign up for that job! You signed up to have kids.

It’s not the parents job either, but that didn’t stop Reid from telling them to get out and shovel.

Teachers can go out and break up the ice/snowcrete on sidewalks/at bus stops in their own neighborhoods--if the community spirit moves them--just like accountants, software engineers, grocery cashiers, retail managers, lawyers, realtors, doctors, waitstaff, chefs, dentists, SAHM, landscape company owners, florists and mechanics can.

FCPS's email specified that they would like people to take care of the areas outside of its area of responsibility, which is school grounds. I don't care for Gatehouse either, but let's not misrepresent their communications. They suck enough in reality.

Is everything in FCPS responsibility done? Including public sidewalks leading to schools? I don’t see how Reid can tell parents they should shovel out public bus stops but not expect the FCPS staff who work for her to put in a few hours on a day they’re being paid.

No, in fact, the faculty are professionals who have contracts that outline their roles and duties and “shoveling sidewalks for angry parents” is not among them. They’re not indentured servants who can be assigned any task that dumb people on message boards dream up in frustration.

This response exemplifies the problem with FCPS and its defenders.

You can cry all you want- contracts are legally binding documents that prevent employers from being able to abuse you by doing things like forcing you to shovel snow on school property when you were hired to teach. You need to get a grip on reality.

I am an employment lawyer. I certainly have a grip on this reality. So you can stop your lecture.

You can focus on the contract. Or you can focus on the practical reality. The most successful workplaces generally have employers and employees that take the latter approach.

Here, there is a problem (need to clear school walkways and lots). There is also a large workforce that can be part of the solution. The answer seems obvious.

An example: I went to a smaller private day school (not in this area). After big snowstorms, the faculty and the principal (even nearby parents/students) always pitched in to help our maintenance department clear the school grounds. The school would give everyone a free pizza lunch. It was fun and effective. The result: we always reopened quickly after storms. It was a win-win for everyone.

That’s the reality — you can either focus on what everyone can do to help schools be open or try and push the problem off to someone else. FCPS and its defenders too often take the second path.

I doubt that you work near law thing.
This entire problem is not about school ground.
It is more about how to safely bring kids to school from their home…. And school is not responsible to clean hundreds miles of sidewalk and streets within their zone.

But the school can say: we are open if you can make it safely; if you can’t, it’s an excused absence. That’s essentially what Loudoun’s announcement for today said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what exactly is going to change between monday and Tuesday. Did reid work with vdot to clear the sidewalks? How can they open school ever again without addressing the sidewalks? Maybe she should use one of her 10 body guards?

For the thousandth time, VDOT doesn’t clear sidewalks. You and your neighbors have to get out there and shovel them. No one is coming to save you. You have to have some responsibility for your community.

VDOT should remove the 8ft pile of ice slabs that they plowed into the corners of the school intersection until the sidewalks and crosswalks.

This is the property owner’s responsibility almost everywhere. DOT’s job is to clear snow from the street. If their plowing blocks access to your property, you need to move it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The schools are likely fine. It is the neighborhood streets, bus stops and sidewalks.

With that attitude it won’t be “fine” for weeks. When did it become necessary for every piece of snow or ice to be cleared. This is weak and soft.

Exactly.

Another example: Even in places that get punch more snow than here (including where I grew up, so I speak from experience), bus stops and small streets were not cleared immediately after storms. But that wasn’t an excuse to cancel school. You stood on a snowbank to wait for the bus. If your road wasn’t clear, you trekked to a main road to get the bus. If you couldn’t make it to school, you don’t go. But school was open. And almost always no later than the day after the storm.

Of course, this is the solution... I do wish we could go back to those sort of policies/expectations. But the reality is, thanks to litigation, we cannot. Perhaps the General Assembly could come up with some sort of law that allows for these policies once again? Maybe one day in the future...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighborhood is about a 20 minute walk to the high school. The majority of the sidewalks, that line roads to the school have not been plowed. We do not have bus service (that pesky 1 mile radius rule). There is no way the kids can make it to the high school. The sidewalk area next to the main crosswalk to cross a major road, is full of ice. We drove past the high school this morning. The parking spots are cleared, but the sidewalks leading into the school are packed with ice. Do you expect the kids to walk on the aslphalt, along with a bunch if new drivers? Also, what is up with people assuming teachers would have to help clear the ice/snow!? That is ridiculous!

Reid expects the parents will do it. Why not the teachers?

It is not their job! Period, end of story. My kid has a teacher that walks with a cane. Should he go out, cut through the ice and shovel it?! Should that job be only for the younger healthier teachers? Did they go to college for 5+ years to end up being forced to clean up the snow? They didn’t sign up for that job! You signed up to have kids.

It’s not the parents job either, but that didn’t stop Reid from telling them to get out and shovel.

Teachers can go out and break up the ice/snowcrete on sidewalks/at bus stops in their own neighborhoods--if the community spirit moves them--just like accountants, software engineers, grocery cashiers, retail managers, lawyers, realtors, doctors, waitstaff, chefs, dentists, SAHM, landscape company owners, florists and mechanics can.

FCPS's email specified that they would like people to take care of the areas outside of its area of responsibility, which is school grounds. I don't care for Gatehouse either, but let's not misrepresent their communications. They suck enough in reality.

Is everything in FCPS responsibility done? Including public sidewalks leading to schools? I don’t see how Reid can tell parents they should shovel out public bus stops but not expect the FCPS staff who work for her to put in a few hours on a day they’re being paid.

No, in fact, the faculty are professionals who have contracts that outline their roles and duties and “shoveling sidewalks for angry parents” is not among them. They’re not indentured servants who can be assigned any task that dumb people on message boards dream up in frustration.

This response exemplifies the problem with FCPS and its defenders.

You can cry all you want- contracts are legally binding documents that prevent employers from being able to abuse you by doing things like forcing you to shovel snow on school property when you were hired to teach. You need to get a grip on reality.

I am an employment lawyer. I certainly have a grip on this reality. So you can stop your lecture.

You can focus on the contract. Or you can focus on the practical reality. The most successful workplaces generally have employers and employees that take the latter approach.

Here, there is a problem (need to clear school walkways and lots). There is also a large workforce that can be part of the solution. The answer seems obvious.

An example: I went to a smaller private day school (not in this area). After big snowstorms, the faculty and the principal (even nearby parents/students) always pitched in to help our maintenance department clear the school grounds. The school would give everyone a free pizza lunch. It was fun and effective. The result: we always reopened quickly after storms. It was a win-win for everyone.

That’s the reality — you can either focus on what everyone can do to help schools be open or try and push the problem off to someone else. FCPS and its defenders too often take the second path.

I doubt that you work near law thing.
This entire problem is not about school ground.
It is more about how to safely bring kids to school from their home…. And school is not responsible to clean hundreds miles of sidewalk and streets within their zone.

But the school can say: we are open if you can make it safely; if you can’t, it’s an excused absence. That’s essentially what Loudoun’s announcement for today said.

Sound like “we are open for daycare if you need it”.
Because, if only half class show up, teacher has to re- teach…