Majoring in English—why so much disrespect?

Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:An example of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in Middle English. Understanding it is only the beginning.

"Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote

The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,

And bathed every veyne in swich licour,

Of which vertu engendred is the flour."

but, why do people need to understand this? I read Shakespeare, Flaubert, etc.. but I don't see the point in needing to understand very old English. My DH is English. He doesn't even like reading those types of books


Which then begs the question, why do I need to study so many subjects that I will never use in my career? It's not necessarily the specific subject matter that's important, its the the thought processes and skills that we develop that's important.

I can understand learning history, social science, but none of those classes are taught in ye olde English. So, again, why does one need to understand Chaucer's old English?

I think it's important to read some classics, but I don't think it's important to read every classic.


Majoring in English is not only (or primarily) about reading the classics. It's about thinking about literature and the ways that literature reflect (or doesn't reflect) society and our culture. It's about expanding our imaginations and empathy through seeing the world through others' perspectives. And it's about close reading and defending ideas with specific examples.


I agree with you, but sadly that is what is lacking in today's society and spefically here on DCUM


Dcum -- and the world -- would be a better place with more English majors and fewer business majors.


We need more doctors and nurses.

Who need to be literate and critical thinkers and be able to see/understand things from various perspectives. I think this thread has encouraged me to encourage my kid to go with their heart and do that English major.

do you really think that English is the only major to teach how to think with their heart? Goodness. BTW, that's really about personality, not the major.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
dony898 wrote:Everyone dunks on English majors until they need help writing a single coherent sentence on LinkedIn.

I had to write a job description recently and used AI for the first to time to do it. It was pretty dam* good. I just had to tweak it a bit. I was a bit shocked.

I saw a video of a fake podcast created by Google Gemini for a technical manual. It was shockingly amazing.


I think many, if not most, people find it to be good because they can't write to save their arse so anything that's comprehensible is going to be good.


95% of all communication in the business world is simply communicating the equivalent of the chicken crossed the road.

Who cares if your company earnings press release is written well. It just needs to communicate that revenues were up 5% and earnings increased 10%.

Who cares if advertising copy is well written? Almost nobody which is why it’s literally being taken over by AI.

Who cares if a Company’s IPO perspectus is well written? Nobody considering few read them…however you do need to make sure AI doesn’t hallucinate something to cause a lawsuit down the road.

This isn’t about “good” writing…it’s just is it good enough. That’s all the corporate world cares about.


I disagree. You should see the unprofessional emails and memos that Doge sends me on a daily basis. Good writing matters.


+1 It matters; but doesn't necessarily reflect one's payscale, unfortunately.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:An example of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in Middle English. Understanding it is only the beginning.

"Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote

The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,

And bathed every veyne in swich licour,

Of which vertu engendred is the flour."

but, why do people need to understand this? I read Shakespeare, Flaubert, etc.. but I don't see the point in needing to understand very old English. My DH is English. He doesn't even like reading those types of books


Which then begs the question, why do I need to study so many subjects that I will never use in my career? It's not necessarily the specific subject matter that's important, its the the thought processes and skills that we develop that's important.

I can understand learning history, social science, but none of those classes are taught in ye olde English. So, again, why does one need to understand Chaucer's old English?

I think it's important to read some classics, but I don't think it's important to read every classic.


Majoring in English is not only (or primarily) about reading the classics. It's about thinking about literature and the ways that literature reflect (or doesn't reflect) society and our culture. It's about expanding our imaginations and empathy through seeing the world through others' perspectives. And it's about close reading and defending ideas with specific examples.


I agree with you, but sadly that is what is lacking in today's society and spefically here on DCUM


Dcum -- and the world -- would be a better place with more English majors and fewer business majors.


We need more doctors and nurses.


Yes. And at least one med school thinks that English majors make better doctors: https://www.mountsinai.org/about/newsroom/2015/npr-all-things-considered-a-top-medical-school-revamps-requirements-to-lure-english-majors


If they thought they made better doctors then why do have their med school students come from science backgrounds?

They think it’s valuable to bring humanities majors in to become doctors but if they believed they were better then one would assume they would take the majority of their class through this program.


Not all humanities majors want to become doctors. Perhaps not enough to fill their med school classes solely with humanities majors? and perhaps they also see that there may be students majoring in other subjects who are still qualified to meet their standards? Note that they had to take the MCAT, however; while the humanities majors did not.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:An example of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in Middle English. Understanding it is only the beginning.

"Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote

The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,

And bathed every veyne in swich licour,

Of which vertu engendred is the flour."

but, why do people need to understand this? I read Shakespeare, Flaubert, etc.. but I don't see the point in needing to understand very old English. My DH is English. He doesn't even like reading those types of books


Which then begs the question, why do I need to study so many subjects that I will never use in my career? It's not necessarily the specific subject matter that's important, its the the thought processes and skills that we develop that's important.

I can understand learning history, social science, but none of those classes are taught in ye olde English. So, again, why does one need to understand Chaucer's old English?

I think it's important to read some classics, but I don't think it's important to read every classic.


Majoring in English is not only (or primarily) about reading the classics. It's about thinking about literature and the ways that literature reflect (or doesn't reflect) society and our culture. It's about expanding our imaginations and empathy through seeing the world through others' perspectives. And it's about close reading and defending ideas with specific examples.


I agree with you, but sadly that is what is lacking in today's society and spefically here on DCUM


Dcum -- and the world -- would be a better place with more English majors and fewer business majors.


We need more doctors and nurses.

Who need to be literate and critical thinkers and be able to see/understand things from various perspectives. I think this thread has encouraged me to encourage my kid to go with their heart and do that English major.

Then get ready to spend $$ on a graduate degree.
Anonymous
Good combo is to major in STEM and then minor in some humanities like English or History and so on.
I do agree that STEMlords + simple idiotic ideologues are wrecking this country.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
dony898 wrote:Everyone dunks on English majors until they need help writing a single coherent sentence on LinkedIn.

I had to write a job description recently and used AI for the first to time to do it. It was pretty dam* good. I just had to tweak it a bit. I was a bit shocked.

I saw a video of a fake podcast created by Google Gemini for a technical manual. It was shockingly amazing.


I think many, if not most, people find it to be good because they can't write to save their arse so anything that's comprehensible is going to be good.


95% of all communication in the business world is simply communicating the equivalent of the chicken crossed the road.

Who cares if your company earnings press release is written well. It just needs to communicate that revenues were up 5% and earnings increased 10%.

Who cares if advertising copy is well written? Almost nobody which is why it’s literally being taken over by AI.

Who cares if a Company’s IPO perspectus is well written? Nobody considering few read them…however you do need to make sure AI doesn’t hallucinate something to cause a lawsuit down the road.

This isn’t about “good” writing…it’s just is it good enough. That’s all the corporate world cares about.


I disagree. You should see the unprofessional emails and memos that Doge sends me on a daily basis. Good writing matters.


I don’t know what “professional” means…but in finance much communication is unprofessional and filled with expletives…but it’s not unclear.


It's pretty sad if someone doesn't know a "professional" message from an unprofessional one. Let's start with a "professional" one being written with appropriate vocabulary (hint: vulgar and offensive phrases and expletives are not appropriate vocabulary) and with good grammar and proper spelling. In the case of DOGE examples, coherent sentences would be an improvement.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
dony898 wrote:Everyone dunks on English majors until they need help writing a single coherent sentence on LinkedIn.

I had to write a job description recently and used AI for the first to time to do it. It was pretty dam* good. I just had to tweak it a bit. I was a bit shocked.

I saw a video of a fake podcast created by Google Gemini for a technical manual. It was shockingly amazing.


I think many, if not most, people find it to be good because they can't write to save their arse so anything that's comprehensible is going to be good.


95% of all communication in the business world is simply communicating the equivalent of the chicken crossed the road.

Who cares if your company earnings press release is written well. It just needs to communicate that revenues were up 5% and earnings increased 10%.

Who cares if advertising copy is well written? Almost nobody which is why it’s literally being taken over by AI.

Who cares if a Company’s IPO perspectus is well written? Nobody considering few read them…however you do need to make sure AI doesn’t hallucinate something to cause a lawsuit down the road.

This isn’t about “good” writing…it’s just is it good enough. That’s all the corporate world cares about.


I disagree. You should see the unprofessional emails and memos that Doge sends me on a daily basis. Good writing matters.


+1 It matters; but doesn't necessarily reflect one's payscale, unfortunately.

oh sure, a MS English teacher should be paid a lot more than an engineer who designs safety equipment but doesn't have great grammar.

Pay is based on supply and demand. Think about then why English majors with an undergrad degree don't get paid that much.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Good combo is to major in STEM and then minor in some humanities like English or History and so on.
I do agree that STEMlords + simple idiotic ideologues are wrecking this country.

why do you assume it's the STEMlords who are the idiots?

Look at all the lawyers who are helping Trump ruin this country. Do you suppose they majored in STEM in undergrad?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
dony898 wrote:Everyone dunks on English majors until they need help writing a single coherent sentence on LinkedIn.

I had to write a job description recently and used AI for the first to time to do it. It was pretty dam* good. I just had to tweak it a bit. I was a bit shocked.

I saw a video of a fake podcast created by Google Gemini for a technical manual. It was shockingly amazing.


I think many, if not most, people find it to be good because they can't write to save their arse so anything that's comprehensible is going to be good.


95% of all communication in the business world is simply communicating the equivalent of the chicken crossed the road.

Who cares if your company earnings press release is written well. It just needs to communicate that revenues were up 5% and earnings increased 10%.

Who cares if advertising copy is well written? Almost nobody which is why it’s literally being taken over by AI.

Who cares if a Company’s IPO perspectus is well written? Nobody considering few read them…however you do need to make sure AI doesn’t hallucinate something to cause a lawsuit down the road.

This isn’t about “good” writing…it’s just is it good enough. That’s all the corporate world cares about.


I disagree. You should see the unprofessional emails and memos that Doge sends me on a daily basis. Good writing matters.


I don’t know what “professional” means…but in finance much communication is unprofessional and filled with expletives…but it’s not unclear.


Company maiings and prospectesus are filled with expletives?


Internal company communications…I doubt the unprofessional DOGE emails referred by PP are company mailings or prospectuses.





I'd doubt that would be allowed since it is all discoverable in any lawsuit


Huh? We are talking about emails to an analyst saying you better have the f**king pitch book done by 6.

What’s the lawsuit? People at work cursed at me?


Curse words are discouraged in company emails. It is very unprofessional and all emails are discoverable.


Again, so what? Are you implying the existence of curse words somehow lead to a lawsuit?

You clearly don’t work in an environment where this is commonplace, so not sure why you keep responding.


Hey jerk, I was initially responding to the post that company writing was not important. Why don’t you crawl back into your hole if you don’t know what the heck you’re talking about.

Perfect example of unprofessional - and clearly why PP doesn't understand what makes an email "professional."
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:History and English were considered respectable majors in the past. I know many who went on to law school or medical school. They’re generally thought to have good writing and analytical skills. Now, people scoff when you saying you’re majoring in English or history. I know there’s AI to worry about, but isn’t that true for CS and accounting too?


I don’t know a single English major that went on to medical school.

No way you know many.


DP. I know many! Though that is because I went to med school and my top school had loads of humanities majors including english, theater, history, classics…some were double majors with bio others were not. About 1/3 of my school did not major in stem.


People don’t major in English because it’s a good route to medical school. On the contrary! It trains students in fewer marketable skills compared to other majors.

Look up salary statistics several years after getting the degree, English and History are the worst, Engineering is usually at the top. The perception of wasted potential and money is the reason for disrespect.

Whatever anecdote people bring, like the doctor or businessman with the English degree, that’s just outliers, the vast majority end up in jobs with limited career prospects.



Perhaps because these people who major in English and related "wasteful" degrees are also the type of people who value different things than those getting a degree for the money it will bring them. They pursue other non-lucrative careers intentionally because they want to make a meaningful difference at non-profits, in government, in education....you know education? That thing that gets those money-seekers the qualifications they need to make the money?

To call this "wasted potential" and a waste of money is highly insulting and extremely ignorant. Clearly you did not obtain a genuine education.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
dony898 wrote:Everyone dunks on English majors until they need help writing a single coherent sentence on LinkedIn.

I had to write a job description recently and used AI for the first to time to do it. It was pretty dam* good. I just had to tweak it a bit. I was a bit shocked.

I saw a video of a fake podcast created by Google Gemini for a technical manual. It was shockingly amazing.


I think many, if not most, people find it to be good because they can't write to save their arse so anything that's comprehensible is going to be good.


95% of all communication in the business world is simply communicating the equivalent of the chicken crossed the road.

Who cares if your company earnings press release is written well. It just needs to communicate that revenues were up 5% and earnings increased 10%.

Who cares if advertising copy is well written? Almost nobody which is why it’s literally being taken over by AI.

Who cares if a Company’s IPO perspectus is well written? Nobody considering few read them…however you do need to make sure AI doesn’t hallucinate something to cause a lawsuit down the road.

This isn’t about “good” writing…it’s just is it good enough. That’s all the corporate world cares about.


I disagree. You should see the unprofessional emails and memos that Doge sends me on a daily basis. Good writing matters.


I don’t know what “professional” means…but in finance much communication is unprofessional and filled with expletives…but it’s not unclear.


Company maiings and prospectesus are filled with expletives?


Internal company communications…I doubt the unprofessional DOGE emails referred by PP are company mailings or prospectuses.





I'd doubt that would be allowed since it is all discoverable in any lawsuit


Huh? We are talking about emails to an analyst saying you better have the f**king pitch book done by 6.

What’s the lawsuit? People at work cursed at me?


Curse words are discouraged in company emails. It is very unprofessional and all emails are discoverable.


Again, so what? Are you implying the existence of curse words somehow lead to a lawsuit?

You clearly don’t work in an environment where this is commonplace, so not sure why you keep responding.


Hey jerk, I was initially responding to the post that company writing was not important. Why don’t you crawl back into your hole if you don’t know what the heck you’re talking about.

Perfect example of unprofessional - and clearly why PP doesn't understand what makes an email "professional."



Then this would fit very nicely in a corporate situation, so we were told
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
dony898 wrote:Everyone dunks on English majors until they need help writing a single coherent sentence on LinkedIn.


I have nothing but respect for English and history majors, but writing a single coherent sentence on LinkedIn is a perfect example of what ChatGPT is good for.


If I come to the conclusion that a prospective employee used ChatGPT to write his or her profile / job search pitch on LinkedIn, that’s a hard pass


Agree. I'll take the person who bothered to write their own resume. Unless it's an obvious 2-minute throw-together resume, it demonstrates greater effort than asking ChatGPT to do it for them.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
dony898 wrote:Everyone dunks on English majors until they need help writing a single coherent sentence on LinkedIn.


I have nothing but respect for English and history majors, but writing a single coherent sentence on LinkedIn is a perfect example of what ChatGPT is good for.


If I come to the conclusion that a prospective employee used ChatGPT to write his or her profile / job search pitch on LinkedIn, that’s a hard pass


How would you come to such conclusion? These aren’t novels being written.

You do know that the people who refuse to embrace Gen AI will be the ones shown the door, right? Also, that prospective employers are looking for candidates with advanced skill sets using it, right?



I would still want someone who can explain about themselves to me themselves rather than someone who has to get something fabricated by a computer. I need to know you can communicate directly with me and your peers and customers.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
dony898 wrote:Everyone dunks on English majors until they need help writing a single coherent sentence on LinkedIn.

I had to write a job description recently and used AI for the first to time to do it. It was pretty dam* good. I just had to tweak it a bit. I was a bit shocked.

I saw a video of a fake podcast created by Google Gemini for a technical manual. It was shockingly amazing.


I think many, if not most, people find it to be good because they can't write to save their arse so anything that's comprehensible is going to be good.


95% of all communication in the business world is simply communicating the equivalent of the chicken crossed the road.

Who cares if your company earnings press release is written well. It just needs to communicate that revenues were up 5% and earnings increased 10%.

Who cares if advertising copy is well written? Almost nobody which is why it’s literally being taken over by AI.

Who cares if a Company’s IPO perspectus is well written? Nobody considering few read them…however you do need to make sure AI doesn’t hallucinate something to cause a lawsuit down the road.

This isn’t about “good” writing…it’s just is it good enough. That’s all the corporate world cares about.


I disagree. You should see the unprofessional emails and memos that Doge sends me on a daily basis. Good writing matters.

Yes, there are some really bad writers in the professional world. But, the vast majority write well enough to understand the meaning.


I believe you mean that the vast majority write well enough to make their meaning understood. I certainly hope they understand the meaning of what they themselves have written. So the key is actually the reader being smart enough to figure out what the poorly written information means despite the writer's incompetence; not that the writer "writes good enough."

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Due to the high cost of a college degree, people started to treat college like trade school rather than valuing it for education’s sake. High-income majors like computer science and engineering grew, while purely academic majors declined. As AI hits CS and engineering, I think we’ll see students returning to more traditional academic majors and liberal arts degrees that show a well-rounded education and adaptability vs highly specific training.

My CS major is taking:
2 writing classes
Lab and non lab science classes
3 history/social science
2 humanities
6 philosophy (minor)
6 math/stat (minor)
Major requirements
Seems pretty well rounded to me.


That's because of the college's liberal arts requirements and the fact that your child actively chose a liberal arts education and a non-science minor like philosophy. Good for him.
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