Summer swim brings out the crazy

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

So do you think everyone should take turns swimming on Saturdays? That the swimmers who go to relay carnival get picked out of a hat? I have 2 kids. One is super fast and swims in everything. The other one has never made a Saturday meet. Both love summer swim and participate in all of the team activities and have made great summer friends. Personally I find it annoying when I sit and listen to parents complain that their child isn’t in a faster lane when they clearly don’t belong in it or complain because a coach isn’t giving them enough attention or just complain at all. Summer swim is cheap and can be the best 5 weeks of the summer for your kid if you just chill out, let them have fun and stop thinking that everything has to be absolutely equal at all times.

DP here. Summer swim meets are supposed to be fun - but they are still a competition. Kids learn to win graciously and lose honorably, or whatever way you want to characterize things. Kids who choose to swim year-round are going to have an advantage over those who don't. Teams want to win, and having year-round kids swim in A meets increases the chances of this happening. This is no different than a team having "starters" and "backups", with the latter "riding the pine" more than the former. Yet when the team wins, all members of the team win.

Parents are always going to complain when their kid isn't getting the attention they think s/he deserves. I'm a summer swim official and save my indignation for officials from the other team who are playing favorites (ignoring DQs or issuing DQs) to help their team win. That's flat out wrong in my book.

A year ago I would have scoffed at the possibility of this kind of dirty officiating, but it happens all over the league. Not every team, of course, but I’ve witnessed it in a lower division.

Yeah, I have reservations about those early time trials. The problem is there aren't officials from another team, so it's run entirely by the swim team. One of our A-meet swimmers had a bad false start problem, and she never beat her time trial time all summer. I had a video, she didn't really false start, but wow she was off that wall fast. It'd be pretty easy to just hit the timer when she started. I thought it was interesting my DD actually had better starts at the other team's starters at the A-meets. I think the other teams knew what she was up to. They made them stand down several times.

You went back to watch a video of another person's kid to see if she false started? You my friend are why summer swim brings out the crazies.

I video most of my daughters' events whether it's a basketball game and how she isn't boxing out or a swim heat, many soccer or basketball teams provide this as part of their club for example MSI has many VEOs. I often times go back and show her mistakes/techniques she worked on. I was trying to show her how she started so much later than the other girls. Kids these days respond pretty well to it, my DD likes making videos and seeing herself. We also have an underwater camera housing.

Though I could see how that may be sort of embarrassing for an official who isn't aware that kids these days are pretty much always on camera.

Riiiight. I see what you did there. Do you really think summer swim is the place for DQ replays? You're hilarious.

I was going to use video one time to explain how to not be timid and draw the foul in basketball. It turns out she was already to doing it, the ref didn't call it. I told her good job, keep doing they will call it, sometimes the ref misses it. Sure 'nuff next game she got two and ones.

Ugh this is so cringe. Your child will be discussing this in therapy. Let the coaches coach your children and be the parent. I love watching you play/swim and great job and did you have fun. That's it.

DP. Why is it cringe? In certain sports, some coaches have kids who trade off being the videographer so that they can parse out videos to their players. If coaches aren't doing this, then there's nothing wrong with a parent doing it and helping their kid work on areas that the coach mentioned during practice.

My DD likes the videos I take of her matches (different sport) and she voluntarily watches the videos to see what she did right/wrong. I also video her competition in other matches so that she can see what they're doing right/wrong. That's called "breaking down film" in football.

As a swimmer parent, I don’t love the idea of their competitor’s parent videoing my child without consent and then watching it at home. Especially when my child is in a bathing suit.

I suppose you should formally write or suggest a process for obtaining consent from USA Swimming for all live-streamed events. Additionally, what about photographers from various NVSL teams capturing photos of the meet?

That's quite different, and I'm pretty sure you know why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

So do you think everyone should take turns swimming on Saturdays? That the swimmers who go to relay carnival get picked out of a hat? I have 2 kids. One is super fast and swims in everything. The other one has never made a Saturday meet. Both love summer swim and participate in all of the team activities and have made great summer friends. Personally I find it annoying when I sit and listen to parents complain that their child isn’t in a faster lane when they clearly don’t belong in it or complain because a coach isn’t giving them enough attention or just complain at all. Summer swim is cheap and can be the best 5 weeks of the summer for your kid if you just chill out, let them have fun and stop thinking that everything has to be absolutely equal at all times.

DP here. Summer swim meets are supposed to be fun - but they are still a competition. Kids learn to win graciously and lose honorably, or whatever way you want to characterize things. Kids who choose to swim year-round are going to have an advantage over those who don't. Teams want to win, and having year-round kids swim in A meets increases the chances of this happening. This is no different than a team having "starters" and "backups", with the latter "riding the pine" more than the former. Yet when the team wins, all members of the team win.

Parents are always going to complain when their kid isn't getting the attention they think s/he deserves. I'm a summer swim official and save my indignation for officials from the other team who are playing favorites (ignoring DQs or issuing DQs) to help their team win. That's flat out wrong in my book.

A year ago I would have scoffed at the possibility of this kind of dirty officiating, but it happens all over the league. Not every team, of course, but I’ve witnessed it in a lower division.

Yeah, I have reservations about those early time trials. The problem is there aren't officials from another team, so it's run entirely by the swim team. One of our A-meet swimmers had a bad false start problem, and she never beat her time trial time all summer. I had a video, she didn't really false start, but wow she was off that wall fast. It'd be pretty easy to just hit the timer when she started. I thought it was interesting my DD actually had better starts at the other team's starters at the A-meets. I think the other teams knew what she was up to. They made them stand down several times.

You went back to watch a video of another person's kid to see if she false started? You my friend are why summer swim brings out the crazies.

I video most of my daughters' events whether it's a basketball game and how she isn't boxing out or a swim heat, many soccer or basketball teams provide this as part of their club for example MSI has many VEOs. I often times go back and show her mistakes/techniques she worked on. I was trying to show her how she started so much later than the other girls. Kids these days respond pretty well to it, my DD likes making videos and seeing herself. We also have an underwater camera housing.

Though I could see how that may be sort of embarrassing for an official who isn't aware that kids these days are pretty much always on camera.

Riiiight. I see what you did there. Do you really think summer swim is the place for DQ replays? You're hilarious.

I was going to use video one time to explain how to not be timid and draw the foul in basketball. It turns out she was already to doing it, the ref didn't call it. I told her good job, keep doing they will call it, sometimes the ref misses it. Sure 'nuff next game she got two and ones.

Ugh this is so cringe. Your child will be discussing this in therapy. Let the coaches coach your children and be the parent. I love watching you play/swim and great job and did you have fun. That's it.

DP. Why is it cringe? In certain sports, some coaches have kids who trade off being the videographer so that they can parse out videos to their players. If coaches aren't doing this, then there's nothing wrong with a parent doing it and helping their kid work on areas that the coach mentioned during practice.

My DD likes the videos I take of her matches (different sport) and she voluntarily watches the videos to see what she did right/wrong. I also video her competition in other matches so that she can see what they're doing right/wrong. That's called "breaking down film" in football.

As a swimmer parent, I don’t love the idea of their competitor’s parent videoing my child without consent and then watching it at home. Especially when my child is in a bathing suit.

I suppose you should formally write or suggest a process for obtaining consent from USA Swimming for all live-streamed events. Additionally, what about photographers from various NVSL teams capturing photos of the meet?

That's quite different, and I'm pretty sure you know why.

Really how many parents at meets video record their children’s races?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

So do you think everyone should take turns swimming on Saturdays? That the swimmers who go to relay carnival get picked out of a hat? I have 2 kids. One is super fast and swims in everything. The other one has never made a Saturday meet. Both love summer swim and participate in all of the team activities and have made great summer friends. Personally I find it annoying when I sit and listen to parents complain that their child isn’t in a faster lane when they clearly don’t belong in it or complain because a coach isn’t giving them enough attention or just complain at all. Summer swim is cheap and can be the best 5 weeks of the summer for your kid if you just chill out, let them have fun and stop thinking that everything has to be absolutely equal at all times.

DP here. Summer swim meets are supposed to be fun - but they are still a competition. Kids learn to win graciously and lose honorably, or whatever way you want to characterize things. Kids who choose to swim year-round are going to have an advantage over those who don't. Teams want to win, and having year-round kids swim in A meets increases the chances of this happening. This is no different than a team having "starters" and "backups", with the latter "riding the pine" more than the former. Yet when the team wins, all members of the team win.

Parents are always going to complain when their kid isn't getting the attention they think s/he deserves. I'm a summer swim official and save my indignation for officials from the other team who are playing favorites (ignoring DQs or issuing DQs) to help their team win. That's flat out wrong in my book.

A year ago I would have scoffed at the possibility of this kind of dirty officiating, but it happens all over the league. Not every team, of course, but I’ve witnessed it in a lower division.

Yeah, I have reservations about those early time trials. The problem is there aren't officials from another team, so it's run entirely by the swim team. One of our A-meet swimmers had a bad false start problem, and she never beat her time trial time all summer. I had a video, she didn't really false start, but wow she was off that wall fast. It'd be pretty easy to just hit the timer when she started. I thought it was interesting my DD actually had better starts at the other team's starters at the A-meets. I think the other teams knew what she was up to. They made them stand down several times.

You went back to watch a video of another person's kid to see if she false started? You my friend are why summer swim brings out the crazies.

I video most of my daughters' events whether it's a basketball game and how she isn't boxing out or a swim heat, many soccer or basketball teams provide this as part of their club for example MSI has many VEOs. I often times go back and show her mistakes/techniques she worked on. I was trying to show her how she started so much later than the other girls. Kids these days respond pretty well to it, my DD likes making videos and seeing herself. We also have an underwater camera housing.

Though I could see how that may be sort of embarrassing for an official who isn't aware that kids these days are pretty much always on camera.

Riiiight. I see what you did there. Do you really think summer swim is the place for DQ replays? You're hilarious.

I was going to use video one time to explain how to not be timid and draw the foul in basketball. It turns out she was already to doing it, the ref didn't call it. I told her good job, keep doing they will call it, sometimes the ref misses it. Sure 'nuff next game she got two and ones.

Ugh this is so cringe. Your child will be discussing this in therapy. Let the coaches coach your children and be the parent. I love watching you play/swim and great job and did you have fun. That's it.

DP. Why is it cringe? In certain sports, some coaches have kids who trade off being the videographer so that they can parse out videos to their players. If coaches aren't doing this, then there's nothing wrong with a parent doing it and helping their kid work on areas that the coach mentioned during practice.

My DD likes the videos I take of her matches (different sport) and she voluntarily watches the videos to see what she did right/wrong. I also video her competition in other matches so that she can see what they're doing right/wrong. That's called "breaking down film" in football.

As a swimmer parent, I don’t love the idea of their competitor’s parent videoing my child without consent and then watching it at home. Especially when my child is in a bathing suit.

I suppose you should formally write or suggest a process for obtaining consent from USA Swimming for all live-streamed events. Additionally, what about photographers from various NVSL teams capturing photos of the meet?

That's quite different, and I'm pretty sure you know why.

Really how many parents at meets video record their children’s races?

I won’t bother articulating why a summer swim meet is different than the NFL or a national level swim meet. Bottom line, yes, people video their kids or teams and other kids end up in the background. But specifically taking video of someone else’s minor-aged, rec league athlete in a bathing suit to get “competitor footage” that you then watch with your child to point out their strengths and mistakes is inappropriate. If I saw another parent clearly filming my kid’s race, vs. capturing them in the background, I’d be very uncomfortable.

[Anonymous]

Also, are you the same poster that complains about the unfair RMSC try-outs and starting block fiasco? I feel like yes.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

So do you think everyone should take turns swimming on Saturdays? That the swimmers who go to relay carnival get picked out of a hat? I have 2 kids. One is super fast and swims in everything. The other one has never made a Saturday meet. Both love summer swim and participate in all of the team activities and have made great summer friends. Personally I find it annoying when I sit and listen to parents complain that their child isn’t in a faster lane when they clearly don’t belong in it or complain because a coach isn’t giving them enough attention or just complain at all. Summer swim is cheap and can be the best 5 weeks of the summer for your kid if you just chill out, let them have fun and stop thinking that everything has to be absolutely equal at all times.

DP here. Summer swim meets are supposed to be fun - but they are still a competition. Kids learn to win graciously and lose honorably, or whatever way you want to characterize things. Kids who choose to swim year-round are going to have an advantage over those who don't. Teams want to win, and having year-round kids swim in A meets increases the chances of this happening. This is no different than a team having "starters" and "backups", with the latter "riding the pine" more than the former. Yet when the team wins, all members of the team win.

Parents are always going to complain when their kid isn't getting the attention they think s/he deserves. I'm a summer swim official and save my indignation for officials from the other team who are playing favorites (ignoring DQs or issuing DQs) to help their team win. That's flat out wrong in my book.

A year ago I would have scoffed at the possibility of this kind of dirty officiating, but it happens all over the league. Not every team, of course, but I’ve witnessed it in a lower division.

Yeah, I have reservations about those early time trials. The problem is there aren't officials from another team, so it's run entirely by the swim team. One of our A-meet swimmers had a bad false start problem, and she never beat her time trial time all summer. I had a video, she didn't really false start, but wow she was off that wall fast. It'd be pretty easy to just hit the timer when she started. I thought it was interesting my DD actually had better starts at the other team's starters at the A-meets. I think the other teams knew what she was up to. They made them stand down several times.

You went back to watch a video of another person's kid to see if she false started? You my friend are why summer swim brings out the crazies.

I video most of my daughters' events whether it's a basketball game and how she isn't boxing out or a swim heat, many soccer or basketball teams provide this as part of their club for example MSI has many VEOs. I often times go back and show her mistakes/techniques she worked on. I was trying to show her how she started so much later than the other girls. Kids these days respond pretty well to it, my DD likes making videos and seeing herself. We also have an underwater camera housing.

Though I could see how that may be sort of embarrassing for an official who isn't aware that kids these days are pretty much always on camera.

Riiiight. I see what you did there. Do you really think summer swim is the place for DQ replays? You're hilarious.

I was going to use video one time to explain how to not be timid and draw the foul in basketball. It turns out she was already to doing it, the ref didn't call it. I told her good job, keep doing they will call it, sometimes the ref misses it. Sure 'nuff next game she got two and ones.

Ugh this is so cringe. Your child will be discussing this in therapy. Let the coaches coach your children and be the parent. I love watching you play/swim and great job and did you have fun. That's it.

DP. Why is it cringe? In certain sports, some coaches have kids who trade off being the videographer so that they can parse out videos to their players. If coaches aren't doing this, then there's nothing wrong with a parent doing it and helping their kid work on areas that the coach mentioned during practice.

My DD likes the videos I take of her matches (different sport) and she voluntarily watches the videos to see what she did right/wrong. I also video her competition in other matches so that she can see what they're doing right/wrong. That's called "breaking down film" in football.

As a swimmer parent, I don’t love the idea of their competitor’s parent videoing my child without consent and then watching it at home. Especially when my child is in a bathing suit.

I suppose you should formally write or suggest a process for obtaining consent from USA Swimming for all live-streamed events. Additionally, what about photographers from various NVSL teams capturing photos of the meet?

That's quite different, and I'm pretty sure you know why.

Really how many parents at meets video record their children’s races?

I won’t bother articulating why a summer swim meet is different than the NFL or a national level swim meet. Bottom line, yes, people video their kids or teams and other kids end up in the background. But specifically taking video of someone else’s minor-aged, rec league athlete in a bathing suit to get “competitor footage” that you then watch with your child to point out their strengths and mistakes is inappropriate. If I saw another parent clearly filming my kid’s race, vs. capturing them in the background, I’d be very uncomfortable.

Yes, I agree. Thanks for clarifying. I was the poster of the question you responded to: “Really, how many parents at meets video record their children’s races?” I completely agree with you, but I’m still going to video my child’s race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

So do you think everyone should take turns swimming on Saturdays? That the swimmers who go to relay carnival get picked out of a hat? I have 2 kids. One is super fast and swims in everything. The other one has never made a Saturday meet. Both love summer swim and participate in all of the team activities and have made great summer friends. Personally I find it annoying when I sit and listen to parents complain that their child isn’t in a faster lane when they clearly don’t belong in it or complain because a coach isn’t giving them enough attention or just complain at all. Summer swim is cheap and can be the best 5 weeks of the summer for your kid if you just chill out, let them have fun and stop thinking that everything has to be absolutely equal at all times.

DP here. Summer swim meets are supposed to be fun - but they are still a competition. Kids learn to win graciously and lose honorably, or whatever way you want to characterize things. Kids who choose to swim year-round are going to have an advantage over those who don't. Teams want to win, and having year-round kids swim in A meets increases the chances of this happening. This is no different than a team having "starters" and "backups", with the latter "riding the pine" more than the former. Yet when the team wins, all members of the team win.

Parents are always going to complain when their kid isn't getting the attention they think s/he deserves. I'm a summer swim official and save my indignation for officials from the other team who are playing favorites (ignoring DQs or issuing DQs) to help their team win. That's flat out wrong in my book.

A year ago I would have scoffed at the possibility of this kind of dirty officiating, but it happens all over the league. Not every team, of course, but I’ve witnessed it in a lower division.

Yeah, I have reservations about those early time trials. The problem is there aren't officials from another team, so it's run entirely by the swim team. One of our A-meet swimmers had a bad false start problem, and she never beat her time trial time all summer. I had a video, she didn't really false start, but wow she was off that wall fast. It'd be pretty easy to just hit the timer when she started. I thought it was interesting my DD actually had better starts at the other team's starters at the A-meets. I think the other teams knew what she was up to. They made them stand down several times.

You went back to watch a video of another person's kid to see if she false started? You my friend are why summer swim brings out the crazies.

I video most of my daughters' events whether it's a basketball game and how she isn't boxing out or a swim heat, many soccer or basketball teams provide this as part of their club for example MSI has many VEOs. I often times go back and show her mistakes/techniques she worked on. I was trying to show her how she started so much later than the other girls. Kids these days respond pretty well to it, my DD likes making videos and seeing herself. We also have an underwater camera housing.

Though I could see how that may be sort of embarrassing for an official who isn't aware that kids these days are pretty much always on camera.

Riiiight. I see what you did there. Do you really think summer swim is the place for DQ replays? You're hilarious.

I was going to use video one time to explain how to not be timid and draw the foul in basketball. It turns out she was already to doing it, the ref didn't call it. I told her good job, keep doing they will call it, sometimes the ref misses it. Sure 'nuff next game she got two and ones.

Ugh this is so cringe. Your child will be discussing this in therapy. Let the coaches coach your children and be the parent. I love watching you play/swim and great job and did you have fun. That's it.

DP. Why is it cringe? In certain sports, some coaches have kids who trade off being the videographer so that they can parse out videos to their players. If coaches aren't doing this, then there's nothing wrong with a parent doing it and helping their kid work on areas that the coach mentioned during practice.

My DD likes the videos I take of her matches (different sport) and she voluntarily watches the videos to see what she did right/wrong. I also video her competition in other matches so that she can see what they're doing right/wrong. That's called "breaking down film" in football.

As a swimmer parent, I don’t love the idea of their competitor’s parent videoing my child without consent and then watching it at home. Especially when my child is in a bathing suit.

Sorry, but filming is allowed - just not behind the blocks according to most swimming associations.

I'm the PP you responded to, but as noted in my posting, my DD is in a different sport. I've seen coaches from other teams recording my daughter during her matches and had no issue with it, and more importantly, neither did she (her attention was on winning her matches, where it should be). And before you say "but those were coaches", I'm sure you know that coaches are often the first to engage in inappropriate activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

So do you think everyone should take turns swimming on Saturdays? That the swimmers who go to relay carnival get picked out of a hat? I have 2 kids. One is super fast and swims in everything. The other one has never made a Saturday meet. Both love summer swim and participate in all of the team activities and have made great summer friends. Personally I find it annoying when I sit and listen to parents complain that their child isn’t in a faster lane when they clearly don’t belong in it or complain because a coach isn’t giving them enough attention or just complain at all. Summer swim is cheap and can be the best 5 weeks of the summer for your kid if you just chill out, let them have fun and stop thinking that everything has to be absolutely equal at all times.

DP here. Summer swim meets are supposed to be fun - but they are still a competition. Kids learn to win graciously and lose honorably, or whatever way you want to characterize things. Kids who choose to swim year-round are going to have an advantage over those who don't. Teams want to win, and having year-round kids swim in A meets increases the chances of this happening. This is no different than a team having "starters" and "backups", with the latter "riding the pine" more than the former. Yet when the team wins, all members of the team win.

Parents are always going to complain when their kid isn't getting the attention they think s/he deserves. I'm a summer swim official and save my indignation for officials from the other team who are playing favorites (ignoring DQs or issuing DQs) to help their team win. That's flat out wrong in my book.

A year ago I would have scoffed at the possibility of this kind of dirty officiating, but it happens all over the league. Not every team, of course, but I’ve witnessed it in a lower division.

Yeah, I have reservations about those early time trials. The problem is there aren't officials from another team, so it's run entirely by the swim team. One of our A-meet swimmers had a bad false start problem, and she never beat her time trial time all summer. I had a video, she didn't really false start, but wow she was off that wall fast. It'd be pretty easy to just hit the timer when she started. I thought it was interesting my DD actually had better starts at the other team's starters at the A-meets. I think the other teams knew what she was up to. They made them stand down several times.

You went back to watch a video of another person's kid to see if she false started? You my friend are why summer swim brings out the crazies.

I video most of my daughters' events whether it's a basketball game and how she isn't boxing out or a swim heat, many soccer or basketball teams provide this as part of their club for example MSI has many VEOs. I often times go back and show her mistakes/techniques she worked on. I was trying to show her how she started so much later than the other girls. Kids these days respond pretty well to it, my DD likes making videos and seeing herself. We also have an underwater camera housing.

Though I could see how that may be sort of embarrassing for an official who isn't aware that kids these days are pretty much always on camera.

Riiiight. I see what you did there. Do you really think summer swim is the place for DQ replays? You're hilarious.

I was going to use video one time to explain how to not be timid and draw the foul in basketball. It turns out she was already to doing it, the ref didn't call it. I told her good job, keep doing they will call it, sometimes the ref misses it. Sure 'nuff next game she got two and ones.

Ugh this is so cringe. Your child will be discussing this in therapy. Let the coaches coach your children and be the parent. I love watching you play/swim and great job and did you have fun. That's it.

DP. Why is it cringe? In certain sports, some coaches have kids who trade off being the videographer so that they can parse out videos to their players. If coaches aren't doing this, then there's nothing wrong with a parent doing it and helping their kid work on areas that the coach mentioned during practice.

My DD likes the videos I take of her matches (different sport) and she voluntarily watches the videos to see what she did right/wrong. I also video her competition in other matches so that she can see what they're doing right/wrong. That's called "breaking down film" in football.

As a swimmer parent, I don’t love the idea of their competitor’s parent videoing my child without consent and then watching it at home. Especially when my child is in a bathing suit.

Sorry, but filming is allowed - just not behind the blocks according to most swimming associations.

I'm the PP you responded to, but as noted in my posting, my DD is in a different sport. I've seen coaches from other teams recording my daughter during her matches and had no issue with it, and more importantly, neither did she (her attention was on winning her matches, where it should be). And before you say "but those were coaches", I'm sure you know that coaches are often the first to engage in inappropriate activities.

Just because people do it, doesn’t make it okay. I think it’s weird to video other kids’ races at a rec league swim meet or other sporting event for the purpose of analyzing them. I understand that at a more competitive level, this might be normal to gain competitive advantage in an upcoming competition with that athlete or team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, are you the same poster that complains about the unfair RMSC try-outs and starting block fiasco? I feel like yes.

She’s one of my favorite posters. I like imagining her outside in the summer getting some fresh air…and still being crazy. On the bright side, no starting blocks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

Yeah I agree with this and then the coaches and team reps are insanely peppy and act like everyone is having this amazing experience. Our team at least is kind of cult-ish. But meanwhile so many kids feel totally disconnected and end up quitting. It's a weird environment and what other sport is like this for something that is supposed to be "fun"? Genuinely curious if people have examples. Any other sport, including a rec league, you are on a team and then you're all doing all the things together. With competitive sports, they made and are part of the team and get some limited playing time. This is like you got cut for varsity but stay on the team aren't you having a great time and show up to practice every day and go over there with the other kids who aren't very good and then we'll have separate games for you! But you are included!! We value you! I mean sorry kids see through this BS eventually.

Culture can be off for a lot of reasons. My club swimmer would normally come to practice but they are fast, NCSA/Sectionals fast, and so the non- year round kids will point blank yell that they can’t be in their lane, they need to go to a different lane. So yeah, they now only go to practice when other year rounders will be there, but they do make all the A meets and crush it. From the outside you would think they are the problem as the fast year round kid, but they actually aren’t. They would attend practice more but the summer swim only kids are a-holes to them. I’d love for them to quit summer swim but they won’t.

We're having the exact opposite experience on our swim team. My kids excel at a different sport and joined swim team this year for, as a PP put it, exercise/cross-training and fun, social events. At the very first practice, a year-round fast club swimmer told my kid to get out of the lane the coach assigned. When does the fun part start?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

Yeah I agree with this and then the coaches and team reps are insanely peppy and act like everyone is having this amazing experience. Our team at least is kind of cult-ish. But meanwhile so many kids feel totally disconnected and end up quitting. It's a weird environment and what other sport is like this for something that is supposed to be "fun"? Genuinely curious if people have examples. Any other sport, including a rec league, you are on a team and then you're all doing all the things together. With competitive sports, they made and are part of the team and get some limited playing time. This is like you got cut for varsity but stay on the team aren't you having a great time and show up to practice every day and go over there with the other kids who aren't very good and then we'll have separate games for you! But you are included!! We value you! I mean sorry kids see through this BS eventually.

Culture can be off for a lot of reasons. My club swimmer would normally come to practice but they are fast, NCSA/Sectionals fast, and so the non- year round kids will point blank yell that they can’t be in their lane, they need to go to a different lane. So yeah, they now only go to practice when other year rounders will be there, but they do make all the A meets and crush it. From the outside you would think they are the problem as the fast year round kid, but they actually aren’t. They would attend practice more but the summer swim only kids are a-holes to them. I’d love for them to quit summer swim but they won’t.

We're having the exact opposite experience on our swim team. My kids excel at a different sport and joined swim team this year for, as a PP put it, exercise/cross-training and fun, social events. At the very first practice, a year-round fast club swimmer told my kid to get out of the lane the coach assigned. When does the fun part start?

Can you share age-group?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

Yeah I agree with this and then the coaches and team reps are insanely peppy and act like everyone is having this amazing experience. Our team at least is kind of cult-ish. But meanwhile so many kids feel totally disconnected and end up quitting. It's a weird environment and what other sport is like this for something that is supposed to be "fun"? Genuinely curious if people have examples. Any other sport, including a rec league, you are on a team and then you're all doing all the things together. With competitive sports, they made and are part of the team and get some limited playing time. This is like you got cut for varsity but stay on the team aren't you having a great time and show up to practice every day and go over there with the other kids who aren't very good and then we'll have separate games for you! But you are included!! We value you! I mean sorry kids see through this BS eventually.

Culture can be off for a lot of reasons. My club swimmer would normally come to practice but they are fast, NCSA/Sectionals fast, and so the non- year round kids will point blank yell that they can’t be in their lane, they need to go to a different lane. So yeah, they now only go to practice when other year rounders will be there, but they do make all the A meets and crush it. From the outside you would think they are the problem as the fast year round kid, but they actually aren’t. They would attend practice more but the summer swim only kids are a-holes to them. I’d love for them to quit summer swim but they won’t.

We're having the exact opposite experience on our swim team. My kids excel at a different sport and joined swim team this year for, as a PP put it, exercise/cross-training and fun, social events. At the very first practice, a year-round fast club swimmer told my kid to get out of the lane the coach assigned. When does the fun part start?

Can you share age-group?

If it's 12U (and especially 10U), i could see kids at those age ranges doing a lot of trash talk. I'm not saying it's right/wrong. But by 13 and over, kids know who is fast/isn't fast, and other than some good ribbing, there's no point to putting kids down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

Yeah I agree with this and then the coaches and team reps are insanely peppy and act like everyone is having this amazing experience. Our team at least is kind of cult-ish. But meanwhile so many kids feel totally disconnected and end up quitting. It's a weird environment and what other sport is like this for something that is supposed to be "fun"? Genuinely curious if people have examples. Any other sport, including a rec league, you are on a team and then you're all doing all the things together. With competitive sports, they made and are part of the team and get some limited playing time. This is like you got cut for varsity but stay on the team aren't you having a great time and show up to practice every day and go over there with the other kids who aren't very good and then we'll have separate games for you! But you are included!! We value you! I mean sorry kids see through this BS eventually.

Culture can be off for a lot of reasons. My club swimmer would normally come to practice but they are fast, NCSA/Sectionals fast, and so the non- year round kids will point blank yell that they can’t be in their lane, they need to go to a different lane. So yeah, they now only go to practice when other year rounders will be there, but they do make all the A meets and crush it. From the outside you would think they are the problem as the fast year round kid, but they actually aren’t. They would attend practice more but the summer swim only kids are a-holes to them. I’d love for them to quit summer swim but they won’t.

We're having the exact opposite experience on our swim team. My kids excel at a different sport and joined swim team this year for, as a PP put it, exercise/cross-training and fun, social events. At the very first practice, a year-round fast club swimmer told my kid to get out of the lane the coach assigned. When does the fun part start?

Can you share age-group?

If it's 12U (and especially 10U), i could see kids at those age ranges doing a lot of trash talk. I'm not saying it's right/wrong. But by 13 and over, kids know who is fast/isn't fast, and other than some good ribbing, there's no point to putting kids down.

Good call, PP. It was 12U.

[Anonymous]

Filming another child swimming intentionally at a summer swim meet is flat out weird and obsessive. So is stalking meet mobile to track other kids times. You me mobile about your kid and I’ll worry about mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

Yeah I agree with this and then the coaches and team reps are insanely peppy and act like everyone is having this amazing experience. Our team at least is kind of cult-ish. But meanwhile so many kids feel totally disconnected and end up quitting. It's a weird environment and what other sport is like this for something that is supposed to be "fun"? Genuinely curious if people have examples. Any other sport, including a rec league, you are on a team and then you're all doing all the things together. With competitive sports, they made and are part of the team and get some limited playing time. This is like you got cut for varsity but stay on the team aren't you having a great time and show up to practice every day and go over there with the other kids who aren't very good and then we'll have separate games for you! But you are included!! We value you! I mean sorry kids see through this BS eventually.

Culture can be off for a lot of reasons. My club swimmer would normally come to practice but they are fast, NCSA/Sectionals fast, and so the non- year round kids will point blank yell that they can’t be in their lane, they need to go to a different lane. So yeah, they now only go to practice when other year rounders will be there, but they do make all the A meets and crush it. From the outside you would think they are the problem as the fast year round kid, but they actually aren’t. They would attend practice more but the summer swim only kids are a-holes to them. I’d love for them to quit summer swim but they won’t.

We're having the exact opposite experience on our swim team. My kids excel at a different sport and joined swim team this year for, as a PP put it, exercise/cross-training and fun, social events. At the very first practice, a year-round fast club swimmer told my kid to get out of the lane the coach assigned. When does the fun part start?

Can you share age-group?

If it's 12U (and especially 10U), i could see kids at those age ranges doing a lot of trash talk. I'm not saying it's right/wrong. But by 13 and over, kids know who is fast/isn't fast, and other than some good ribbing, there's no point to putting kids down.

By 13 and over, the fast kids will just totally ignore the slow kids who remain and most of the slow kids will have been driven out. Summer swim! It's a family!

[Anonymous]

Game film Olympians, not 12 yr olds