Spanish Immersion Community Table Session

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

Why would Kenmore and TJ students refuse WMS, its about the same distance and in fact Kenmore to WMS is shorter than Kenmore to Gunston.

I have no idea how many immersion students originate from Gunston, that is not show in transfer report I saw.

Perhaps read the thread? Goodness. This has been well discussed.

The thread says WMS is too far north, yet WMS is CLOSER to Kenmore than the current Gunston commute. So there is no reason

Why is this a relevant metric? I haven't heard of any immersion students who are zoned for WMS saying that Kenmore is too far (though there are concerns about traffic and safety). And there are a lot of immersion students who live further south than Kenmore. They are the ones for whom distance to WMS would be an issue.

This point also disregards the lack of EL support at WMS, the feeder pattern issue to Wakefield vs Yorktown, the lack of proximity to public transit, the lack of proximity to an Hispanic community, the lack of diversity at WMS, the historic issues around busing, etc.

They will move teachers and resources, it’s not rocket science. Why does Feeder pattern matter — they will be going with their immersion cohort, just like they did going to middle school rather than with their neighborhood. Again why does proximity of Hispanic community matter — are they taking daily field trips to the bodega?? They are bused from Kenmore to Gunston, they can take the shorter bus ride to WMS. Lack of diversity— moving immersion literally helps fix that!

Gaslighting at its finest. ::applause::

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

Why would Kenmore and TJ students refuse WMS, its about the same distance and in fact Kenmore to WMS is shorter than Kenmore to Gunston.

I have no idea how many immersion students originate from Gunston, that is not show in transfer report I saw.

Perhaps read the thread? Goodness. This has been well discussed.

The thread says WMS is too far north, yet WMS is CLOSER to Kenmore than the current Gunston commute. So there is no reason

Why is this a relevant metric? I haven't heard of any immersion students who are zoned for WMS saying that Kenmore is too far (though there are concerns about traffic and safety). And there are a lot of immersion students who live further south than Kenmore. They are the ones for whom distance to WMS would be an issue.

This point also disregards the lack of EL support at WMS, the feeder pattern issue to Wakefield vs Yorktown, the lack of proximity to public transit, the lack of proximity to an Hispanic community, the lack of diversity at WMS, the historic issues around busing, etc.

They will move teachers and resources, it’s not rocket science. Why does Feeder pattern matter — they will be going with their immersion cohort, just like they did going to middle school rather than with their neighborhood. Again why does proximity of Hispanic community matter — are they taking daily field trips to the bodega?? They are bused from Kenmore to Gunston, they can take the shorter bus ride to WMS. Lack of diversity— moving immersion literally helps fix that!

Why are you focused on Kenmore? What about the students who are closer to Gunston, and who make-up more of the immersion program?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

Why would Kenmore and TJ students refuse WMS, its about the same distance and in fact Kenmore to WMS is shorter than Kenmore to Gunston.

I have no idea how many immersion students originate from Gunston, that is not show in transfer report I saw.

Perhaps read the thread? Goodness. This has been well discussed.

The thread says WMS is too far north, yet WMS is CLOSER to Kenmore than the current Gunston commute. So there is no reason

I guess I am not sure why that matters? The program is moving from gunston to kennore or WMS? Gunston is closer to kenmore than it is to WMS. Gunston is also closer to TJ than WMS is to TJ. The bulk of immersion kids come from gunston, TJ and Kenmore. I think I read the vast majority are from gunston (but don't have that data).

Don’t lie. Kenmore is closer to WMS than Gunston, I just mapped it. TJ is closer to Gunston, but the route to WMS is on the faster north section of George Mason rather than Wash Blvd with way more traffic.

I am not lying. I never said kenmore was not closer. I said what the heck does that have to do with anything? Immersion families aren't 100% from Kenmore as I was attempting to point out when you ignored everything I said?

I didn't even mention Kenmore's distance to WMS.

Same poster here. I get it. You are talking about the hispanic families at kenmore and how it's better for them? Sure. What about the families that are zoned gunston and TJ? The idea behind moving to Kenmore is that it's in the middle for EVERYONE.

You're assuming immersion students are evenly distributed across the county. I'd like to see data on that because that assumption does not match where the families I know live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

Why would Kenmore and TJ students refuse WMS, its about the same distance and in fact Kenmore to WMS is shorter than Kenmore to Gunston.

I have no idea how many immersion students originate from Gunston, that is not show in transfer report I saw.

Perhaps read the thread? Goodness. This has been well discussed.

The thread says WMS is too far north, yet WMS is CLOSER to Kenmore than the current Gunston commute. So there is no reason

I guess I am not sure why that matters? The program is moving from gunston to kennore or WMS? Gunston is closer to kenmore than it is to WMS. Gunston is also closer to TJ than WMS is to TJ. The bulk of immersion kids come from gunston, TJ and Kenmore. I think I read the vast majority are from gunston (but don't have that data).

Don’t lie. Kenmore is closer to WMS than Gunston, I just mapped it. TJ is closer to Gunston, but the route to WMS is on the faster north section of George Mason rather than Wash Blvd with way more traffic.

I am not lying. I never said kenmore was not closer. I said what the heck does that have to do with anything? Immersion families aren't 100% from Kenmore as I was attempting to point out when you ignored everything I said?

I didn't even mention Kenmore's distance to WMS.

Same poster here. I get it. You are talking about the hispanic families at kenmore and how it's better for them? Sure. What about the families that are zoned gunston and TJ? The idea behind moving to Kenmore is that it's in the middle for EVERYONE.

You're assuming immersion students are evenly distributed across the county. I'd like to see data on that because that assumption does not match where the families I know live.

I am assuming students that are in immersion are largely zoned or gunston, tj and Kenmore currently. Actually I am not assuming. I am basing it on the 2022-2023 aps transfer data! Gunston received 54 students from Hamm, 152 from TJ, 106 from Kenmore, 30 from Swanson, and 16 from WMS. Granted some of those are Montessori and it doesn't list students zoned for Gunston since they aren't transfers. But it's not hard to see the majority of MS immersion students are zoned for TJ, Kenmore and Gunston.

https://www.apsva.us/statistics/enrollment/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

Why would Kenmore and TJ students refuse WMS, its about the same distance and in fact Kenmore to WMS is shorter than Kenmore to Gunston.

I have no idea how many immersion students originate from Gunston, that is not show in transfer report I saw.

Perhaps read the thread? Goodness. This has been well discussed.

The thread says WMS is too far north, yet WMS is CLOSER to Kenmore than the current Gunston commute. So there is no reason

I guess I am not sure why that matters? The program is moving from gunston to kennore or WMS? Gunston is closer to kenmore than it is to WMS. Gunston is also closer to TJ than WMS is to TJ. The bulk of immersion kids come from gunston, TJ and Kenmore. I think I read the vast majority are from gunston (but don't have that data).

Don’t lie. Kenmore is closer to WMS than Gunston, I just mapped it. TJ is closer to Gunston, but the route to WMS is on the faster north section of George Mason rather than Wash Blvd with way more traffic.

I am not lying. I never said kenmore was not closer. I said what the heck does that have to do with anything? Immersion families aren't 100% from Kenmore as I was attempting to point out when you ignored everything I said?

I didn't even mention Kenmore's distance to WMS.

Same poster here. I get it. You are talking about the hispanic families at kenmore and how it's better for them? Sure. What about the families that are zoned gunston and TJ? The idea behind moving to Kenmore is that it's in the middle for EVERYONE.

You're assuming immersion students are evenly distributed across the county. I'd like to see data on that because that assumption does not match where the families I know live.

I am assuming students that are in immersion are largely zoned or gunston, tj and Kenmore currently. Actually I am not assuming. I am basing it on the 2022-2023 aps transfer data! Gunston received 54 students from Hamm, 152 from TJ, 106 from Kenmore, 30 from Swanson, and 16 from WMS. Granted some of those are Montessori and it doesn't list students zoned for Gunston since they aren't transfers. But it's not hard to see the majority of MS immersion students are zoned for TJ, Kenmore and Gunston.

https://www.apsva.us/statistics/enrollment/

This is very strong rationale for moving immersion to Kenmore, since the bulk of students are from Kenmore and TJ. Kenmore's boundary goes a bit north of 50, more so than TJ's (?) And there are students from Swanson, which is north of Kenmore but seems closer than Hamm is to TJ (again, ?) But with the remaining 16 from Williamsburg, the scale tips to Kenmore for best location. It is interesting how few immersion students actually come from Gunston, since Claremont isn't that far away.

Would like to know how many of those WMS and Hamm students in particular are Montessori rather than immersion. I thought there were only about 300 total immersion students; and these numbers add up to over 250 without counting Gunston-zoned students. Still, more students closer to Gunston than to Williamsburg.

I understand the "space available" argument for moving immersion to WHS; but the strongest case for Kenmore is right here in these numbers.
1. Better serves the program
2. More centrally located for all participants
3. requires boundary shifts that ultimately would help fill Williamsburg and help keep it filled consistently, not relying on the gamble that enough immersion students would continue. Of course, maybe the winds would shift and more Key students would continue through MS instead of Claremont students; but then that puts the high school program at Wakefield in a more questionable future. I really doubt that many north Arlington students are going to send their kids to Wakefield. After all, that's why they're all living in north Arlington, right? And if the south Arlington families don't continue on at Williamsburg, they aren't going to jump back in in high school. Still, I guess APS could let the program become a north Arlington thing and move high school to YHS. If all those SA families are willing to keep going up to WMS and YHS for 7 years, maybe some demographic shifts will improve the diversity at YHS and WHS. My bet is on immersion at Kenmore/WHS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

Why would Kenmore and TJ students refuse WMS, its about the same distance and in fact Kenmore to WMS is shorter than Kenmore to Gunston.

I have no idea how many immersion students originate from Gunston, that is not show in transfer report I saw.

Perhaps read the thread? Goodness. This has been well discussed.

The thread says WMS is too far north, yet WMS is CLOSER to Kenmore than the current Gunston commute. So there is no reason

I guess I am not sure why that matters? The program is moving from gunston to kennore or WMS? Gunston is closer to kenmore than it is to WMS. Gunston is also closer to TJ than WMS is to TJ. The bulk of immersion kids come from gunston, TJ and Kenmore. I think I read the vast majority are from gunston (but don't have that data).

Don’t lie. Kenmore is closer to WMS than Gunston, I just mapped it. TJ is closer to Gunston, but the route to WMS is on the faster north section of George Mason rather than Wash Blvd with way more traffic.

I am not lying. I never said kenmore was not closer. I said what the heck does that have to do with anything? Immersion families aren't 100% from Kenmore as I was attempting to point out when you ignored everything I said?

I didn't even mention Kenmore's distance to WMS.

Same poster here. I get it. You are talking about the hispanic families at kenmore and how it's better for them? Sure. What about the families that are zoned gunston and TJ? The idea behind moving to Kenmore is that it's in the middle for EVERYONE.

You're assuming immersion students are evenly distributed across the county. I'd like to see data on that because that assumption does not match where the families I know live.

+1
The assumption above is based on distances between the various schools. But kids don't live at the schools. Many TJ students live closer to Gunston than to WMS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

Why would Kenmore and TJ students refuse WMS, its about the same distance and in fact Kenmore to WMS is shorter than Kenmore to Gunston.

I have no idea how many immersion students originate from Gunston, that is not show in transfer report I saw.

Perhaps read the thread? Goodness. This has been well discussed.

The thread says WMS is too far north, yet WMS is CLOSER to Kenmore than the current Gunston commute. So there is no reason

I guess I am not sure why that matters? The program is moving from gunston to kennore or WMS? Gunston is closer to kenmore than it is to WMS. Gunston is also closer to TJ than WMS is to TJ. The bulk of immersion kids come from gunston, TJ and Kenmore. I think I read the vast majority are from gunston (but don't have that data).

Don’t lie. Kenmore is closer to WMS than Gunston, I just mapped it. TJ is closer to Gunston, but the route to WMS is on the faster north section of George Mason rather than Wash Blvd with way more traffic.

I am not lying. I never said kenmore was not closer. I said what the heck does that have to do with anything? Immersion families aren't 100% from Kenmore as I was attempting to point out when you ignored everything I said?

I didn't even mention Kenmore's distance to WMS.

Same poster here. I get it. You are talking about the hispanic families at kenmore and how it's better for them? Sure. What about the families that are zoned gunston and TJ? The idea behind moving to Kenmore is that it's in the middle for EVERYONE.

You're assuming immersion students are evenly distributed across the county. I'd like to see data on that because that assumption does not match where the families I know live.

I am assuming students that are in immersion are largely zoned or gunston, tj and Kenmore currently. Actually I am not assuming. I am basing it on the 2022-2023 aps transfer data! Gunston received 54 students from Hamm, 152 from TJ, 106 from Kenmore, 30 from Swanson, and 16 from WMS. Granted some of those are Montessori and it doesn't list students zoned for Gunston since they aren't transfers. But it's not hard to see the majority of MS immersion students are zoned for TJ, Kenmore and Gunston.

https://www.apsva.us/statistics/enrollment/

This is very strong rationale for moving immersion to Kenmore, since the bulk of students are from Kenmore and TJ. Kenmore's boundary goes a bit north of 50, more so than TJ's (?) And there are students from Swanson, which is north of Kenmore but seems closer than Hamm is to TJ (again, ?) But with the remaining 16 from Williamsburg, the scale tips to Kenmore for best location. It is interesting how few immersion students actually come from Gunston, since Claremont isn't that far away.

Would like to know how many of those WMS and Hamm students in particular are Montessori rather than immersion. I thought there were only about 300 total immersion students; and these numbers add up to over 250 without counting Gunston-zoned students. Still, more students closer to Gunston than to Williamsburg.

I understand the "space available" argument for moving immersion to WHS; but the strongest case for Kenmore is right here in these numbers.
1. Better serves the program
2. More centrally located for all participants
3. requires boundary shifts that ultimately would help fill Williamsburg and help keep it filled consistently, not relying on the gamble that enough immersion students would continue. Of course, maybe the winds would shift and more Key students would continue through MS instead of Claremont students; but then that puts the high school program at Wakefield in a more questionable future. I really doubt that many north Arlington students are going to send their kids to Wakefield. After all, that's why they're all living in north Arlington, right? And if the south Arlington families don't continue on at Williamsburg, they aren't going to jump back in in high school. Still, I guess APS could let the program become a north Arlington thing and move high school to YHS. If all those SA families are willing to keep going up to WMS and YHS for 7 years, maybe some demographic shifts will improve the diversity at YHS and WHS. My bet is on immersion at Kenmore/WHS.

So I don't have numbers from this year. BUT last year there were 253 immersion students and 44 Montessori students who weren't zoned for Gunston. If you include the Gunston zoned kids the Immersion number is 310 and Montessori is 70. I am also surprised it's not more Gunston kids, but the current population distribution is kind of off because some of this current set of kids had guaranteed admission based on their neighborhood. I know that at least one of the neighborhoods that used to have guaranteed admission was zoned for TJ (the Claremont neighborhood). Drew also had guaranteed admission and were zoned for Gunston but is a small population base compared to some other schools AND also had a lot of kids going into Montessori. So, in another couple years that population draw might seem a bit different.

But yes, there are many reasons to send the program to Kenmore. As I said my kid is in immersion. Ideally, I would prefer it stay there because we love it there. But Kenmore does make sense for the strength of the program. Which despite what many folks on here want to hear, should be a consideration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

Why would Kenmore and TJ students refuse WMS, its about the same distance and in fact Kenmore to WMS is shorter than Kenmore to Gunston.

I have no idea how many immersion students originate from Gunston, that is not show in transfer report I saw.

Perhaps read the thread? Goodness. This has been well discussed.

The thread says WMS is too far north, yet WMS is CLOSER to Kenmore than the current Gunston commute. So there is no reason

I guess I am not sure why that matters? The program is moving from gunston to kennore or WMS? Gunston is closer to kenmore than it is to WMS. Gunston is also closer to TJ than WMS is to TJ. The bulk of immersion kids come from gunston, TJ and Kenmore. I think I read the vast majority are from gunston (but don't have that data).

Don’t lie. Kenmore is closer to WMS than Gunston, I just mapped it. TJ is closer to Gunston, but the route to WMS is on the faster north section of George Mason rather than Wash Blvd with way more traffic.

I am not lying. I never said kenmore was not closer. I said what the heck does that have to do with anything? Immersion families aren't 100% from Kenmore as I was attempting to point out when you ignored everything I said?

I didn't even mention Kenmore's distance to WMS.

Same poster here. I get it. You are talking about the hispanic families at kenmore and how it's better for them? Sure. What about the families that are zoned gunston and TJ? The idea behind moving to Kenmore is that it's in the middle for EVERYONE.

You're assuming immersion students are evenly distributed across the county. I'd like to see data on that because that assumption does not match where the families I know live.

I am assuming students that are in immersion are largely zoned or gunston, tj and Kenmore currently. Actually I am not assuming. I am basing it on the 2022-2023 aps transfer data! Gunston received 54 students from Hamm, 152 from TJ, 106 from Kenmore, 30 from Swanson, and 16 from WMS. Granted some of those are Montessori and it doesn't list students zoned for Gunston since they aren't transfers. But it's not hard to see the majority of MS immersion students are zoned for TJ, Kenmore and Gunston.

https://www.apsva.us/statistics/enrollment/

Thank you for sharing the link. This is some really interesting data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

Why would Kenmore and TJ students refuse WMS, its about the same distance and in fact Kenmore to WMS is shorter than Kenmore to Gunston.

I have no idea how many immersion students originate from Gunston, that is not show in transfer report I saw.

Perhaps read the thread? Goodness. This has been well discussed.

The thread says WMS is too far north, yet WMS is CLOSER to Kenmore than the current Gunston commute. So there is no reason

I guess I am not sure why that matters? The program is moving from gunston to kennore or WMS? Gunston is closer to kenmore than it is to WMS. Gunston is also closer to TJ than WMS is to TJ. The bulk of immersion kids come from gunston, TJ and Kenmore. I think I read the vast majority are from gunston (but don't have that data).

Don’t lie. Kenmore is closer to WMS than Gunston, I just mapped it. TJ is closer to Gunston, but the route to WMS is on the faster north section of George Mason rather than Wash Blvd with way more traffic.

I am not lying. I never said kenmore was not closer. I said what the heck does that have to do with anything? Immersion families aren't 100% from Kenmore as I was attempting to point out when you ignored everything I said?

I didn't even mention Kenmore's distance to WMS.

Same poster here. I get it. You are talking about the hispanic families at kenmore and how it's better for them? Sure. What about the families that are zoned gunston and TJ? The idea behind moving to Kenmore is that it's in the middle for EVERYONE.

You're assuming immersion students are evenly distributed across the county. I'd like to see data on that because that assumption does not match where the families I know live.

I am assuming students that are in immersion are largely zoned or gunston, tj and Kenmore currently. Actually I am not assuming. I am basing it on the 2022-2023 aps transfer data! Gunston received 54 students from Hamm, 152 from TJ, 106 from Kenmore, 30 from Swanson, and 16 from WMS. Granted some of those are Montessori and it doesn't list students zoned for Gunston since they aren't transfers. But it's not hard to see the majority of MS immersion students are zoned for TJ, Kenmore and Gunston.

https://www.apsva.us/statistics/enrollment/

This is very strong rationale for moving immersion to Kenmore, since the bulk of students are from Kenmore and TJ. Kenmore's boundary goes a bit north of 50, more so than TJ's (?) And there are students from Swanson, which is north of Kenmore but seems closer than Hamm is to TJ (again, ?) But with the remaining 16 from Williamsburg, the scale tips to Kenmore for best location. It is interesting how few immersion students actually come from Gunston, since Claremont isn't that far away.

Would like to know how many of those WMS and Hamm students in particular are Montessori rather than immersion. I thought there were only about 300 total immersion students; and these numbers add up to over 250 without counting Gunston-zoned students. Still, more students closer to Gunston than to Williamsburg.

I understand the "space available" argument for moving immersion to WHS; but the strongest case for Kenmore is right here in these numbers.
1. Better serves the program
2. More centrally located for all participants
3. requires boundary shifts that ultimately would help fill Williamsburg and help keep it filled consistently, not relying on the gamble that enough immersion students would continue. Of course, maybe the winds would shift and more Key students would continue through MS instead of Claremont students; but then that puts the high school program at Wakefield in a more questionable future. I really doubt that many north Arlington students are going to send their kids to Wakefield. After all, that's why they're all living in north Arlington, right? And if the south Arlington families don't continue on at Williamsburg, they aren't going to jump back in in high school. Still, I guess APS could let the program become a north Arlington thing and move high school to YHS. If all those SA families are willing to keep going up to WMS and YHS for 7 years, maybe some demographic shifts will improve the diversity at YHS and WHS. My bet is on immersion at Kenmore/WHS.

So I don't have numbers from this year. BUT last year there were 253 immersion students and 44 Montessori students who weren't zoned for Gunston. If you include the Gunston zoned kids the Immersion number is 310 and Montessori is 70. I am also surprised it's not more Gunston kids, but the current population distribution is kind of off because some of this current set of kids had guaranteed admission based on their neighborhood. I know that at least one of the neighborhoods that used to have guaranteed admission was zoned for TJ (the Claremont neighborhood). Drew also had guaranteed admission and were zoned for Gunston but is a small population base compared to some other schools AND also had a lot of kids going into Montessori. So, in another couple years that population draw might seem a bit different.

But yes, there are many reasons to send the program to Kenmore. As I said my kid is in immersion. Ideally, I would prefer it stay there because we love it there. But Kenmore does make sense for the strength of the program. Which despite what many folks on here want to hear, should be a consideration.

If most immersion students come from Kenmore, and only 50 kids come from Gunston, WMS makes a lot of sense since it’s closer to Kenmore than Gunston is to Kenmore. And it has capacity.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

Why would Kenmore and TJ students refuse WMS, its about the same distance and in fact Kenmore to WMS is shorter than Kenmore to Gunston.

I have no idea how many immersion students originate from Gunston, that is not show in transfer report I saw.

Perhaps read the thread? Goodness. This has been well discussed.

The thread says WMS is too far north, yet WMS is CLOSER to Kenmore than the current Gunston commute. So there is no reason

I guess I am not sure why that matters? The program is moving from gunston to kennore or WMS? Gunston is closer to kenmore than it is to WMS. Gunston is also closer to TJ than WMS is to TJ. The bulk of immersion kids come from gunston, TJ and Kenmore. I think I read the vast majority are from gunston (but don't have that data).

Don’t lie. Kenmore is closer to WMS than Gunston, I just mapped it. TJ is closer to Gunston, but the route to WMS is on the faster north section of George Mason rather than Wash Blvd with way more traffic.

I am not lying. I never said kenmore was not closer. I said what the heck does that have to do with anything? Immersion families aren't 100% from Kenmore as I was attempting to point out when you ignored everything I said?

I didn't even mention Kenmore's distance to WMS.

Same poster here. I get it. You are talking about the hispanic families at kenmore and how it's better for them? Sure. What about the families that are zoned gunston and TJ? The idea behind moving to Kenmore is that it's in the middle for EVERYONE.

You're assuming immersion students are evenly distributed across the county. I'd like to see data on that because that assumption does not match where the families I know live.

I am assuming students that are in immersion are largely zoned or gunston, tj and Kenmore currently. Actually I am not assuming. I am basing it on the 2022-2023 aps transfer data! Gunston received 54 students from Hamm, 152 from TJ, 106 from Kenmore, 30 from Swanson, and 16 from WMS. Granted some of those are Montessori and it doesn't list students zoned for Gunston since they aren't transfers. But it's not hard to see the majority of MS immersion students are zoned for TJ, Kenmore and Gunston.

https://www.apsva.us/statistics/enrollment/

This is very strong rationale for moving immersion to Kenmore, since the bulk of students are from Kenmore and TJ. Kenmore's boundary goes a bit north of 50, more so than TJ's (?) And there are students from Swanson, which is north of Kenmore but seems closer than Hamm is to TJ (again, ?) But with the remaining 16 from Williamsburg, the scale tips to Kenmore for best location. It is interesting how few immersion students actually come from Gunston, since Claremont isn't that far away.

Would like to know how many of those WMS and Hamm students in particular are Montessori rather than immersion. I thought there were only about 300 total immersion students; and these numbers add up to over 250 without counting Gunston-zoned students. Still, more students closer to Gunston than to Williamsburg.

I understand the "space available" argument for moving immersion to WHS; but the strongest case for Kenmore is right here in these numbers.
1. Better serves the program
2. More centrally located for all participants
3. requires boundary shifts that ultimately would help fill Williamsburg and help keep it filled consistently, not relying on the gamble that enough immersion students would continue. Of course, maybe the winds would shift and more Key students would continue through MS instead of Claremont students; but then that puts the high school program at Wakefield in a more questionable future. I really doubt that many north Arlington students are going to send their kids to Wakefield. After all, that's why they're all living in north Arlington, right? And if the south Arlington families don't continue on at Williamsburg, they aren't going to jump back in in high school. Still, I guess APS could let the program become a north Arlington thing and move high school to YHS. If all those SA families are willing to keep going up to WMS and YHS for 7 years, maybe some demographic shifts will improve the diversity at YHS and WHS. My bet is on immersion at Kenmore/WHS.

So I don't have numbers from this year. BUT last year there were 253 immersion students and 44 Montessori students who weren't zoned for Gunston. If you include the Gunston zoned kids the Immersion number is 310 and Montessori is 70. I am also surprised it's not more Gunston kids, but the current population distribution is kind of off because some of this current set of kids had guaranteed admission based on their neighborhood. I know that at least one of the neighborhoods that used to have guaranteed admission was zoned for TJ (the Claremont neighborhood). Drew also had guaranteed admission and were zoned for Gunston but is a small population base compared to some other schools AND also had a lot of kids going into Montessori. So, in another couple years that population draw might seem a bit different.

But yes, there are many reasons to send the program to Kenmore. As I said my kid is in immersion. Ideally, I would prefer it stay there because we love it there. But Kenmore does make sense for the strength of the program. Which despite what many folks on here want to hear, should be a consideration.

If most immersion students come from Kenmore, and only 50 kids come from Gunston, WMS makes a lot of sense since it’s closer to Kenmore than Gunston is to Kenmore. And it has capacity.

1) The decision is NOT Gunston vs. WMS. The decision is KENMORE vs. WMS. Do you know what is closer to Kenmore? KENMORE.

2) The most kids do not come from Kenmore. They come from TJ zones.

But i am done with this. You are clearly just trying to be annoying.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

Why would Kenmore and TJ students refuse WMS, its about the same distance and in fact Kenmore to WMS is shorter than Kenmore to Gunston.

I have no idea how many immersion students originate from Gunston, that is not show in transfer report I saw.

Perhaps read the thread? Goodness. This has been well discussed.

The thread says WMS is too far north, yet WMS is CLOSER to Kenmore than the current Gunston commute. So there is no reason

I guess I am not sure why that matters? The program is moving from gunston to kennore or WMS? Gunston is closer to kenmore than it is to WMS. Gunston is also closer to TJ than WMS is to TJ. The bulk of immersion kids come from gunston, TJ and Kenmore. I think I read the vast majority are from gunston (but don't have that data).

Don’t lie. Kenmore is closer to WMS than Gunston, I just mapped it. TJ is closer to Gunston, but the route to WMS is on the faster north section of George Mason rather than Wash Blvd with way more traffic.

I am not lying. I never said kenmore was not closer. I said what the heck does that have to do with anything? Immersion families aren't 100% from Kenmore as I was attempting to point out when you ignored everything I said?

I didn't even mention Kenmore's distance to WMS.

Same poster here. I get it. You are talking about the hispanic families at kenmore and how it's better for them? Sure. What about the families that are zoned gunston and TJ? The idea behind moving to Kenmore is that it's in the middle for EVERYONE.

You're assuming immersion students are evenly distributed across the county. I'd like to see data on that because that assumption does not match where the families I know live.

I am assuming students that are in immersion are largely zoned or gunston, tj and Kenmore currently. Actually I am not assuming. I am basing it on the 2022-2023 aps transfer data! Gunston received 54 students from Hamm, 152 from TJ, 106 from Kenmore, 30 from Swanson, and 16 from WMS. Granted some of those are Montessori and it doesn't list students zoned for Gunston since they aren't transfers. But it's not hard to see the majority of MS immersion students are zoned for TJ, Kenmore and Gunston.

https://www.apsva.us/statistics/enrollment/

This is very strong rationale for moving immersion to Kenmore, since the bulk of students are from Kenmore and TJ. Kenmore's boundary goes a bit north of 50, more so than TJ's (?) And there are students from Swanson, which is north of Kenmore but seems closer than Hamm is to TJ (again, ?) But with the remaining 16 from Williamsburg, the scale tips to Kenmore for best location. It is interesting how few immersion students actually come from Gunston, since Claremont isn't that far away.

Would like to know how many of those WMS and Hamm students in particular are Montessori rather than immersion. I thought there were only about 300 total immersion students; and these numbers add up to over 250 without counting Gunston-zoned students. Still, more students closer to Gunston than to Williamsburg.

I understand the "space available" argument for moving immersion to WHS; but the strongest case for Kenmore is right here in these numbers.
1. Better serves the program
2. More centrally located for all participants
3. requires boundary shifts that ultimately would help fill Williamsburg and help keep it filled consistently, not relying on the gamble that enough immersion students would continue. Of course, maybe the winds would shift and more Key students would continue through MS instead of Claremont students; but then that puts the high school program at Wakefield in a more questionable future. I really doubt that many north Arlington students are going to send their kids to Wakefield. After all, that's why they're all living in north Arlington, right? And if the south Arlington families don't continue on at Williamsburg, they aren't going to jump back in in high school. Still, I guess APS could let the program become a north Arlington thing and move high school to YHS. If all those SA families are willing to keep going up to WMS and YHS for 7 years, maybe some demographic shifts will improve the diversity at YHS and WHS. My bet is on immersion at Kenmore/WHS.

So I don't have numbers from this year. BUT last year there were 253 immersion students and 44 Montessori students who weren't zoned for Gunston. If you include the Gunston zoned kids the Immersion number is 310 and Montessori is 70. I am also surprised it's not more Gunston kids, but the current population distribution is kind of off because some of this current set of kids had guaranteed admission based on their neighborhood. I know that at least one of the neighborhoods that used to have guaranteed admission was zoned for TJ (the Claremont neighborhood). Drew also had guaranteed admission and were zoned for Gunston but is a small population base compared to some other schools AND also had a lot of kids going into Montessori. So, in another couple years that population draw might seem a bit different.

But yes, there are many reasons to send the program to Kenmore. As I said my kid is in immersion. Ideally, I would prefer it stay there because we love it there. But Kenmore does make sense for the strength of the program. Which despite what many folks on here want to hear, should be a consideration.

If most immersion students come from Kenmore, and only 50 kids come from Gunston, WMS makes a lot of sense since it’s closer to Kenmore than Gunston is to Kenmore. And it has capacity.

1) The decision is NOT Gunston vs. WMS. The decision is KENMORE vs. WMS. Do you know what is closer to Kenmore? KENMORE.

2) The most kids do not come from Kenmore. They come from TJ zones.

But i am done with this. You are clearly just trying to be annoying.

1) The decision is where can immersion go with best outcome for immersion and neighborhood students. It could stay at Gunston and they just redraw boundaries, it could go to TJ if they get over IB Immersion overlap, etc. if Gunston was fine for years, then WMS is even closer.

2) reports I see more transfers from Kenmore, but maybe the latest numbers they swap? But TJ to WMS is equivalent to Kenmore to Gunston, so it really is a wash.

Logistically, WMS, Kenmore, Gunston, all work. It comes down to capacity utilization and impact on busing and boundaries. WMS should be investigated closely, as it will likely yield the fewest busing needs through the system, full stop.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

Why would Kenmore and TJ students refuse WMS, its about the same distance and in fact Kenmore to WMS is shorter than Kenmore to Gunston.

I have no idea how many immersion students originate from Gunston, that is not show in transfer report I saw.

Perhaps read the thread? Goodness. This has been well discussed.

The thread says WMS is too far north, yet WMS is CLOSER to Kenmore than the current Gunston commute. So there is no reason

I guess I am not sure why that matters? The program is moving from gunston to kennore or WMS? Gunston is closer to kenmore than it is to WMS. Gunston is also closer to TJ than WMS is to TJ. The bulk of immersion kids come from gunston, TJ and Kenmore. I think I read the vast majority are from gunston (but don't have that data).

Don’t lie. Kenmore is closer to WMS than Gunston, I just mapped it. TJ is closer to Gunston, but the route to WMS is on the faster north section of George Mason rather than Wash Blvd with way more traffic.

I am not lying. I never said kenmore was not closer. I said what the heck does that have to do with anything? Immersion families aren't 100% from Kenmore as I was attempting to point out when you ignored everything I said?

I didn't even mention Kenmore's distance to WMS.

Same poster here. I get it. You are talking about the hispanic families at kenmore and how it's better for them? Sure. What about the families that are zoned gunston and TJ? The idea behind moving to Kenmore is that it's in the middle for EVERYONE.

You're assuming immersion students are evenly distributed across the county. I'd like to see data on that because that assumption does not match where the families I know live.

I am assuming students that are in immersion are largely zoned or gunston, tj and Kenmore currently. Actually I am not assuming. I am basing it on the 2022-2023 aps transfer data! Gunston received 54 students from Hamm, 152 from TJ, 106 from Kenmore, 30 from Swanson, and 16 from WMS. Granted some of those are Montessori and it doesn't list students zoned for Gunston since they aren't transfers. But it's not hard to see the majority of MS immersion students are zoned for TJ, Kenmore and Gunston.

https://www.apsva.us/statistics/enrollment/

This is very strong rationale for moving immersion to Kenmore, since the bulk of students are from Kenmore and TJ. Kenmore's boundary goes a bit north of 50, more so than TJ's (?) And there are students from Swanson, which is north of Kenmore but seems closer than Hamm is to TJ (again, ?) But with the remaining 16 from Williamsburg, the scale tips to Kenmore for best location. It is interesting how few immersion students actually come from Gunston, since Claremont isn't that far away.

Would like to know how many of those WMS and Hamm students in particular are Montessori rather than immersion. I thought there were only about 300 total immersion students; and these numbers add up to over 250 without counting Gunston-zoned students. Still, more students closer to Gunston than to Williamsburg.

I understand the "space available" argument for moving immersion to WHS; but the strongest case for Kenmore is right here in these numbers.
1. Better serves the program
2. More centrally located for all participants
3. requires boundary shifts that ultimately would help fill Williamsburg and help keep it filled consistently, not relying on the gamble that enough immersion students would continue. Of course, maybe the winds would shift and more Key students would continue through MS instead of Claremont students; but then that puts the high school program at Wakefield in a more questionable future. I really doubt that many north Arlington students are going to send their kids to Wakefield. After all, that's why they're all living in north Arlington, right? And if the south Arlington families don't continue on at Williamsburg, they aren't going to jump back in in high school. Still, I guess APS could let the program become a north Arlington thing and move high school to YHS. If all those SA families are willing to keep going up to WMS and YHS for 7 years, maybe some demographic shifts will improve the diversity at YHS and WHS. My bet is on immersion at Kenmore/WHS.

So I don't have numbers from this year. BUT last year there were 253 immersion students and 44 Montessori students who weren't zoned for Gunston. If you include the Gunston zoned kids the Immersion number is 310 and Montessori is 70. I am also surprised it's not more Gunston kids, but the current population distribution is kind of off because some of this current set of kids had guaranteed admission based on their neighborhood. I know that at least one of the neighborhoods that used to have guaranteed admission was zoned for TJ (the Claremont neighborhood). Drew also had guaranteed admission and were zoned for Gunston but is a small population base compared to some other schools AND also had a lot of kids going into Montessori. So, in another couple years that population draw might seem a bit different.

But yes, there are many reasons to send the program to Kenmore. As I said my kid is in immersion. Ideally, I would prefer it stay there because we love it there. But Kenmore does make sense for the strength of the program. Which despite what many folks on here want to hear, should be a consideration.

If most immersion students come from Kenmore, and only 50 kids come from Gunston, WMS makes a lot of sense since it’s closer to Kenmore than Gunston is to Kenmore. And it has capacity.

1) The decision is NOT Gunston vs. WMS. The decision is KENMORE vs. WMS. Do you know what is closer to Kenmore? KENMORE.

2) The most kids do not come from Kenmore. They come from TJ zones.

But i am done with this. You are clearly just trying to be annoying.

Thank you for pointing this out. WMS is only being considered in this anonymous form. Its fun and entertaining but back in the real world...

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

Why would Kenmore and TJ students refuse WMS, its about the same distance and in fact Kenmore to WMS is shorter than Kenmore to Gunston.

I have no idea how many immersion students originate from Gunston, that is not show in transfer report I saw.

Perhaps read the thread? Goodness. This has been well discussed.

The thread says WMS is too far north, yet WMS is CLOSER to Kenmore than the current Gunston commute. So there is no reason

I guess I am not sure why that matters? The program is moving from gunston to kennore or WMS? Gunston is closer to kenmore than it is to WMS. Gunston is also closer to TJ than WMS is to TJ. The bulk of immersion kids come from gunston, TJ and Kenmore. I think I read the vast majority are from gunston (but don't have that data).

Don’t lie. Kenmore is closer to WMS than Gunston, I just mapped it. TJ is closer to Gunston, but the route to WMS is on the faster north section of George Mason rather than Wash Blvd with way more traffic.

I am not lying. I never said kenmore was not closer. I said what the heck does that have to do with anything? Immersion families aren't 100% from Kenmore as I was attempting to point out when you ignored everything I said?

I didn't even mention Kenmore's distance to WMS.

Same poster here. I get it. You are talking about the hispanic families at kenmore and how it's better for them? Sure. What about the families that are zoned gunston and TJ? The idea behind moving to Kenmore is that it's in the middle for EVERYONE.

You're assuming immersion students are evenly distributed across the county. I'd like to see data on that because that assumption does not match where the families I know live.

I am assuming students that are in immersion are largely zoned or gunston, tj and Kenmore currently. Actually I am not assuming. I am basing it on the 2022-2023 aps transfer data! Gunston received 54 students from Hamm, 152 from TJ, 106 from Kenmore, 30 from Swanson, and 16 from WMS. Granted some of those are Montessori and it doesn't list students zoned for Gunston since they aren't transfers. But it's not hard to see the majority of MS immersion students are zoned for TJ, Kenmore and Gunston.

https://www.apsva.us/statistics/enrollment/

This is very strong rationale for moving immersion to Kenmore, since the bulk of students are from Kenmore and TJ. Kenmore's boundary goes a bit north of 50, more so than TJ's (?) And there are students from Swanson, which is north of Kenmore but seems closer than Hamm is to TJ (again, ?) But with the remaining 16 from Williamsburg, the scale tips to Kenmore for best location. It is interesting how few immersion students actually come from Gunston, since Claremont isn't that far away.

Would like to know how many of those WMS and Hamm students in particular are Montessori rather than immersion. I thought there were only about 300 total immersion students; and these numbers add up to over 250 without counting Gunston-zoned students. Still, more students closer to Gunston than to Williamsburg.

I understand the "space available" argument for moving immersion to WHS; but the strongest case for Kenmore is right here in these numbers.
1. Better serves the program
2. More centrally located for all participants
3. requires boundary shifts that ultimately would help fill Williamsburg and help keep it filled consistently, not relying on the gamble that enough immersion students would continue. Of course, maybe the winds would shift and more Key students would continue through MS instead of Claremont students; but then that puts the high school program at Wakefield in a more questionable future. I really doubt that many north Arlington students are going to send their kids to Wakefield. After all, that's why they're all living in north Arlington, right? And if the south Arlington families don't continue on at Williamsburg, they aren't going to jump back in in high school. Still, I guess APS could let the program become a north Arlington thing and move high school to YHS. If all those SA families are willing to keep going up to WMS and YHS for 7 years, maybe some demographic shifts will improve the diversity at YHS and WHS. My bet is on immersion at Kenmore/WHS.

So I don't have numbers from this year. BUT last year there were 253 immersion students and 44 Montessori students who weren't zoned for Gunston. If you include the Gunston zoned kids the Immersion number is 310 and Montessori is 70. I am also surprised it's not more Gunston kids, but the current population distribution is kind of off because some of this current set of kids had guaranteed admission based on their neighborhood. I know that at least one of the neighborhoods that used to have guaranteed admission was zoned for TJ (the Claremont neighborhood). Drew also had guaranteed admission and were zoned for Gunston but is a small population base compared to some other schools AND also had a lot of kids going into Montessori. So, in another couple years that population draw might seem a bit different.

But yes, there are many reasons to send the program to Kenmore. As I said my kid is in immersion. Ideally, I would prefer it stay there because we love it there. But Kenmore does make sense for the strength of the program. Which despite what many folks on here want to hear, should be a consideration.

If most immersion students come from Kenmore, and only 50 kids come from Gunston, WMS makes a lot of sense since it’s closer to Kenmore than Gunston is to Kenmore. And it has capacity.

1) The decision is NOT Gunston vs. WMS. The decision is KENMORE vs. WMS. Do you know what is closer to Kenmore? KENMORE.

2) The most kids do not come from Kenmore. They come from TJ zones.

But i am done with this. You are clearly just trying to be annoying.

Thank you for pointing this out. WMS is only being considered in this anonymous form. Its fun and entertaining but back in the real world...

I saw the big elementary swap discussed as a possibility on here well before it was an official idea from APS.

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Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

Why would Kenmore and TJ students refuse WMS, its about the same distance and in fact Kenmore to WMS is shorter than Kenmore to Gunston.

I have no idea how many immersion students originate from Gunston, that is not show in transfer report I saw.

Perhaps read the thread? Goodness. This has been well discussed.

The thread says WMS is too far north, yet WMS is CLOSER to Kenmore than the current Gunston commute. So there is no reason

I guess I am not sure why that matters? The program is moving from gunston to kennore or WMS? Gunston is closer to kenmore than it is to WMS. Gunston is also closer to TJ than WMS is to TJ. The bulk of immersion kids come from gunston, TJ and Kenmore. I think I read the vast majority are from gunston (but don't have that data).

Don’t lie. Kenmore is closer to WMS than Gunston, I just mapped it. TJ is closer to Gunston, but the route to WMS is on the faster north section of George Mason rather than Wash Blvd with way more traffic.

I am not lying. I never said kenmore was not closer. I said what the heck does that have to do with anything? Immersion families aren't 100% from Kenmore as I was attempting to point out when you ignored everything I said?

I didn't even mention Kenmore's distance to WMS.

Same poster here. I get it. You are talking about the hispanic families at kenmore and how it's better for them? Sure. What about the families that are zoned gunston and TJ? The idea behind moving to Kenmore is that it's in the middle for EVERYONE.

You're assuming immersion students are evenly distributed across the county. I'd like to see data on that because that assumption does not match where the families I know live.

I am assuming students that are in immersion are largely zoned or gunston, tj and Kenmore currently. Actually I am not assuming. I am basing it on the 2022-2023 aps transfer data! Gunston received 54 students from Hamm, 152 from TJ, 106 from Kenmore, 30 from Swanson, and 16 from WMS. Granted some of those are Montessori and it doesn't list students zoned for Gunston since they aren't transfers. But it's not hard to see the majority of MS immersion students are zoned for TJ, Kenmore and Gunston.

https://www.apsva.us/statistics/enrollment/

This is very strong rationale for moving immersion to Kenmore, since the bulk of students are from Kenmore and TJ. Kenmore's boundary goes a bit north of 50, more so than TJ's (?) And there are students from Swanson, which is north of Kenmore but seems closer than Hamm is to TJ (again, ?) But with the remaining 16 from Williamsburg, the scale tips to Kenmore for best location. It is interesting how few immersion students actually come from Gunston, since Claremont isn't that far away.

Would like to know how many of those WMS and Hamm students in particular are Montessori rather than immersion. I thought there were only about 300 total immersion students; and these numbers add up to over 250 without counting Gunston-zoned students. Still, more students closer to Gunston than to Williamsburg.

I understand the "space available" argument for moving immersion to WHS; but the strongest case for Kenmore is right here in these numbers.
1. Better serves the program
2. More centrally located for all participants
3. requires boundary shifts that ultimately would help fill Williamsburg and help keep it filled consistently, not relying on the gamble that enough immersion students would continue. Of course, maybe the winds would shift and more Key students would continue through MS instead of Claremont students; but then that puts the high school program at Wakefield in a more questionable future. I really doubt that many north Arlington students are going to send their kids to Wakefield. After all, that's why they're all living in north Arlington, right? And if the south Arlington families don't continue on at Williamsburg, they aren't going to jump back in in high school. Still, I guess APS could let the program become a north Arlington thing and move high school to YHS. If all those SA families are willing to keep going up to WMS and YHS for 7 years, maybe some demographic shifts will improve the diversity at YHS and WHS. My bet is on immersion at Kenmore/WHS.

So I don't have numbers from this year. BUT last year there were 253 immersion students and 44 Montessori students who weren't zoned for Gunston. If you include the Gunston zoned kids the Immersion number is 310 and Montessori is 70. I am also surprised it's not more Gunston kids, but the current population distribution is kind of off because some of this current set of kids had guaranteed admission based on their neighborhood. I know that at least one of the neighborhoods that used to have guaranteed admission was zoned for TJ (the Claremont neighborhood). Drew also had guaranteed admission and were zoned for Gunston but is a small population base compared to some other schools AND also had a lot of kids going into Montessori. So, in another couple years that population draw might seem a bit different.

But yes, there are many reasons to send the program to Kenmore. As I said my kid is in immersion. Ideally, I would prefer it stay there because we love it there. But Kenmore does make sense for the strength of the program. Which despite what many folks on here want to hear, should be a consideration.

If most immersion students come from Kenmore, and only 50 kids come from Gunston, WMS makes a lot of sense since it’s closer to Kenmore than Gunston is to Kenmore. And it has capacity.

1) The decision is NOT Gunston vs. WMS. The decision is KENMORE vs. WMS. Do you know what is closer to Kenmore? KENMORE.

2) The most kids do not come from Kenmore. They come from TJ zones.

But i am done with this. You are clearly just trying to be annoying.

Thank you for pointing this out. WMS is only being considered in this anonymous form. Its fun and entertaining but back in the real world...

I saw it on engage, the talk took.

I know people have written in to school board as well.

And APS staff read DCUM

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Exactly how many students need to be moved out of Gunston? More than 300? If you take the 300 in immersion and move them to WMS and then move kids into Hamm with boundaries is that not fixing the issue of too few kids at WMS and Hamm and too many at Gunston? You act as if the only ways to move students are the two maps/scenarios they put out to bolster their foregone decision. It’s not. Immersion out of Gunston to WMS, shift TJ/Swanson PUs to Hamm and I think we’re there. I’m not saying this is the best way, but it is a possibility and should be looked at in terms of how many buses it requires and how many neighborhood students would be moved/realigned. That hasn’t happened, and “because it’s bad for
Immersion” doesn’t cut it.

If a significant number of immersion students zoned for Gunston, Kenmore and TJ don't agree to move to WMS (highly likely), then you haven't moved 300 students. You are back in the same pickle with needing to move neighborhood boundaries to move more students north. You've harmed the program without accomplishing your objective of protecting a few Taylor students from being rezoned.

Why would Kenmore and TJ students refuse WMS, its about the same distance and in fact Kenmore to WMS is shorter than Kenmore to Gunston.

I have no idea how many immersion students originate from Gunston, that is not show in transfer report I saw.

Perhaps read the thread? Goodness. This has been well discussed.

The thread says WMS is too far north, yet WMS is CLOSER to Kenmore than the current Gunston commute. So there is no reason

I guess I am not sure why that matters? The program is moving from gunston to kennore or WMS? Gunston is closer to kenmore than it is to WMS. Gunston is also closer to TJ than WMS is to TJ. The bulk of immersion kids come from gunston, TJ and Kenmore. I think I read the vast majority are from gunston (but don't have that data).

Don’t lie. Kenmore is closer to WMS than Gunston, I just mapped it. TJ is closer to Gunston, but the route to WMS is on the faster north section of George Mason rather than Wash Blvd with way more traffic.

I am not lying. I never said kenmore was not closer. I said what the heck does that have to do with anything? Immersion families aren't 100% from Kenmore as I was attempting to point out when you ignored everything I said?

I didn't even mention Kenmore's distance to WMS.

Same poster here. I get it. You are talking about the hispanic families at kenmore and how it's better for them? Sure. What about the families that are zoned gunston and TJ? The idea behind moving to Kenmore is that it's in the middle for EVERYONE.

You're assuming immersion students are evenly distributed across the county. I'd like to see data on that because that assumption does not match where the families I know live.

I am assuming students that are in immersion are largely zoned or gunston, tj and Kenmore currently. Actually I am not assuming. I am basing it on the 2022-2023 aps transfer data! Gunston received 54 students from Hamm, 152 from TJ, 106 from Kenmore, 30 from Swanson, and 16 from WMS. Granted some of those are Montessori and it doesn't list students zoned for Gunston since they aren't transfers. But it's not hard to see the majority of MS immersion students are zoned for TJ, Kenmore and Gunston.

https://www.apsva.us/statistics/enrollment/

This is very strong rationale for moving immersion to Kenmore, since the bulk of students are from Kenmore and TJ. Kenmore's boundary goes a bit north of 50, more so than TJ's (?) And there are students from Swanson, which is north of Kenmore but seems closer than Hamm is to TJ (again, ?) But with the remaining 16 from Williamsburg, the scale tips to Kenmore for best location. It is interesting how few immersion students actually come from Gunston, since Claremont isn't that far away.

Would like to know how many of those WMS and Hamm students in particular are Montessori rather than immersion. I thought there were only about 300 total immersion students; and these numbers add up to over 250 without counting Gunston-zoned students. Still, more students closer to Gunston than to Williamsburg.

I understand the "space available" argument for moving immersion to WHS; but the strongest case for Kenmore is right here in these numbers.
1. Better serves the program
2. More centrally located for all participants
3. requires boundary shifts that ultimately would help fill Williamsburg and help keep it filled consistently, not relying on the gamble that enough immersion students would continue. Of course, maybe the winds would shift and more Key students would continue through MS instead of Claremont students; but then that puts the high school program at Wakefield in a more questionable future. I really doubt that many north Arlington students are going to send their kids to Wakefield. After all, that's why they're all living in north Arlington, right? And if the south Arlington families don't continue on at Williamsburg, they aren't going to jump back in in high school. Still, I guess APS could let the program become a north Arlington thing and move high school to YHS. If all those SA families are willing to keep going up to WMS and YHS for 7 years, maybe some demographic shifts will improve the diversity at YHS and WHS. My bet is on immersion at Kenmore/WHS.

So I don't have numbers from this year. BUT last year there were 253 immersion students and 44 Montessori students who weren't zoned for Gunston. If you include the Gunston zoned kids the Immersion number is 310 and Montessori is 70. I am also surprised it's not more Gunston kids, but the current population distribution is kind of off because some of this current set of kids had guaranteed admission based on their neighborhood. I know that at least one of the neighborhoods that used to have guaranteed admission was zoned for TJ (the Claremont neighborhood). Drew also had guaranteed admission and were zoned for Gunston but is a small population base compared to some other schools AND also had a lot of kids going into Montessori. So, in another couple years that population draw might seem a bit different.

But yes, there are many reasons to send the program to Kenmore. As I said my kid is in immersion. Ideally, I would prefer it stay there because we love it there. But Kenmore does make sense for the strength of the program. Which despite what many folks on here want to hear, should be a consideration.

If most immersion students come from Kenmore, and only 50 kids come from Gunston, WMS makes a lot of sense since it’s closer to Kenmore than Gunston is to Kenmore. And it has capacity.

1) The decision is NOT Gunston vs. WMS. The decision is KENMORE vs. WMS. Do you know what is closer to Kenmore? KENMORE.

2) The most kids do not come from Kenmore. They come from TJ zones.

But i am done with this. You are clearly just trying to be annoying.

Thank you for pointing this out. WMS is only being considered in this anonymous form. Its fun and entertaining but back in the real world...

I saw it on engage, the talk took.

I know people have written in to school board as well.

And APS staff read DCUM

Yes school board staff has replied in emails that its under consideration.