Gosselins

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having had a narcissistic family member in my life, I feel qualified to say it sounds like Stockholm Mady is just repeating what Kate has poured into her ear, and there doesn’t seem to be proof (yet) that any of this (threats, etc) is true.

It's rather infantilizing that you're saying a 22 year old college student can't think for herself.

New poster here. As another person who was raised by a narcissistic parent. My father. I can tell you that it can take years to get out of under the mindset. I've moved an entire continent away from him and just because of the distance was not in close contact with him anymore. It probably still took me about three years before I realized what a narcissist he was. Before that, everything he said, was factual and true And I didn't question it. So yes, it is possible for a 22-year-old to not be able to think differently than her narcissistic parent if she is still embroiled and in close contact with the narcissistic parent.

Anything but accept that Collin may have issues we don't know about and there's more here than meets the eye.

Why are you so intent on making Colin a villain? I was just saying as a fellow child of a narcissist, that it is possible for Maddie, a 22-year-old, to still have a worldview like her mother's because Kate is a narcissist. I Did not mention Colin at all. But you did. Makes me wonder if you have some close ties to this family and are trying to deflect. You seem way too invested in saying Colin is awful and Kate and Maddie are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having had a narcissistic family member in my life, I feel qualified to say it sounds like Stockholm Mady is just repeating what Kate has poured into her ear, and there doesn’t seem to be proof (yet) that any of this (threats, etc) is true.

It's rather infantilizing that you're saying a 22 year old college student can't think for herself.

New poster here. As another person who was raised by a narcissistic parent. My father. I can tell you that it can take years to get out of under the mindset. I've moved an entire continent away from him and just because of the distance was not in close contact with him anymore. It probably still took me about three years before I realized what a narcissist he was. Before that, everything he said, was factual and true And I didn't question it. So yes, it is possible for a 22-year-old to not be able to think differently than her narcissistic parent if she is still embroiled and in close contact with the narcissistic parent.

Anything but accept that Collin may have issues we don't know about and there's more here than meets the eye.

Why are you so intent on making Colin a villain? I was just saying as a fellow child of a narcissist, that it is possible for Maddie, a 22-year-old, to still have a worldview like her mother's because Kate is a narcissist. I Did not mention Colin at all. But you did. Makes me wonder if you have some close ties to this family and are trying to deflect. You seem way too invested in saying Colin is awful and Kate and Maddie are not.

Why are you twisting yourself in a pretzel to pick a side? We're talking about Mady b/c of the claims she made against her brother because wanted to speak up for herself. You're choosing not to believe her because you think she's been brainwashed. That's quite a leap based on your unprofessional opinion about people you've never met. But for Collin, we wouldn't be talking about her at all. Do you normally not believe women?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was probably just ADHD and defiant, but Kate being a controlling narcissist she needed a scapegoat for her family system to work and she couldn’t send him to Jon because that would blow her image. I suspect she calculated that in her fan base there would be sympathy for her and support for her taking the difficult step to send her special needs child to a residential facility so she could focus, poor single mom that she was, on the rest of the kids. And of course she didn’t advertise that she wasn’t visiting him or calling him or facilitating an ongoing relationship between him and his siblings - when all of those facts came out is when her fan base went *poof* and why she couldn’t shop another show concept to anyone. She is a vile person, truly.

I am not team Jon either, please don’t get me wrong. I think they are both shallow minded people to bring a litter of babies into the world in the first place, and it was despicable to make them commodities from birth and to violate their privacy their entire childhoods.

I expect we haven’t heard the end of Gosselin family dysfunction. Poor kids.

I suspect the show paid for the institution to keep the family image perfect.

And to avoid having to film Collin not participating. He said in the Vice interview that he no longer wanted to be filmed and then showed clips of him sitting sullenly and silently next to his brothers on a couch when being filmed by the crew. TLC I think are the absolute real villains in all this. The made easily over a hundred million dollars off this family. When you look at all the money the network made, the family got peanuts. Paying for residential treatment-around 80 to 100k a year would be worth it for the network to earn millions.

Try 200-300k.

Yep. And no insurance company would cover three years of that.

The school system would. Special education kids are placed at residential facilities due to behavior issues and it's paid for by the school district. I suspect that's what happened to Collin, because otherwise I don't know how Kate could have afforded it. Obviously the issues have to be pretty bad to qualify for residential.

You would need a diagnosis to get the services. ADHD alone would never cut it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having had a narcissistic family member in my life, I feel qualified to say it sounds like Stockholm Mady is just repeating what Kate has poured into her ear, and there doesn’t seem to be proof (yet) that any of this (threats, etc) is true.

It's rather infantilizing that you're saying a 22 year old college student can't think for herself.

New poster here. As another person who was raised by a narcissistic parent. My father. I can tell you that it can take years to get out of under the mindset. I've moved an entire continent away from him and just because of the distance was not in close contact with him anymore. It probably still took me about three years before I realized what a narcissist he was. Before that, everything he said, was factual and true And I didn't question it. So yes, it is possible for a 22-year-old to not be able to think differently than her narcissistic parent if she is still embroiled and in close contact with the narcissistic parent.

Anything but accept that Collin may have issues we don't know about and there's more here than meets the eye.

Why are you so intent on making Colin a villain? I was just saying as a fellow child of a narcissist, that it is possible for Maddie, a 22-year-old, to still have a worldview like her mother's because Kate is a narcissist. I Did not mention Colin at all. But you did. Makes me wonder if you have some close ties to this family and are trying to deflect. You seem way too invested in saying Colin is awful and Kate and Maddie are not.

Why are you twisting yourself in a pretzel to pick a side? We're talking about Mady b/c of the claims she made against her brother because wanted to speak up for herself. You're choosing not to believe her because you think she's been brainwashed. That's quite a leap based on your unprofessional opinion about people you've never met. But for Collin, we wouldn't be talking about her at all. Do you normally not believe women?

Hahaha you really have perfected deflection. I was simply talking about the possibility of a narcissistic parent having influence over their children beyond the age of 18. Why are you making it into more than that?

[Anonymous]

NP but I don’t simply “believe women” just because they’re women. That’s ridiculous. Right is right, wrong is wrong, regardless if male or female.

We’re supposed to just take Mady’s word no matter what she says? I felt bad for her as a kid, for all of them, but she doesn’t get to gatekeep everyone else’s experiences with that Monster Mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having had a narcissistic family member in my life, I feel qualified to say it sounds like Stockholm Mady is just repeating what Kate has poured into her ear, and there doesn’t seem to be proof (yet) that any of this (threats, etc) is true.

It's rather infantilizing that you're saying a 22 year old college student can't think for herself.

New poster here. As another person who was raised by a narcissistic parent. My father. I can tell you that it can take years to get out of under the mindset. I've moved an entire continent away from him and just because of the distance was not in close contact with him anymore. It probably still took me about three years before I realized what a narcissist he was. Before that, everything he said, was factual and true And I didn't question it. So yes, it is possible for a 22-year-old to not be able to think differently than her narcissistic parent if she is still embroiled and in close contact with the narcissistic parent.

Anything but accept that Collin may have issues we don't know about and there's more here than meets the eye.

Why are you so intent on making Colin a villain? I was just saying as a fellow child of a narcissist, that it is possible for Maddie, a 22-year-old, to still have a worldview like her mother's because Kate is a narcissist. I Did not mention Colin at all. But you did. Makes me wonder if you have some close ties to this family and are trying to deflect. You seem way too invested in saying Colin is awful and Kate and Maddie are not.

Why are you twisting yourself in a pretzel to pick a side? We're talking about Mady b/c of the claims she made against her brother because wanted to speak up for herself. You're choosing not to believe her because you think she's been brainwashed. That's quite a leap based on your unprofessional opinion about people you've never met. But for Collin, we wouldn't be talking about her at all. Do you normally not believe women?

Hahaha you really have perfected deflection. I was simply talking about the possibility of a narcissistic parent having influence over their children beyond the age of 18. Why are you making it into more than that?

I'm not trying to diagnose anyone or make sweeping generalizations. Mady basically said Collin is a violent homophobe. Collin hasn't spoken out against that, why not? I'm not bending over backwards to defend a POS like that, if true, no matter how mean his mom was to him. There are probably receipts out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was probably just ADHD and defiant, but Kate being a controlling narcissist she needed a scapegoat for her family system to work and she couldn’t send him to Jon because that would blow her image. I suspect she calculated that in her fan base there would be sympathy for her and support for her taking the difficult step to send her special needs child to a residential facility so she could focus, poor single mom that she was, on the rest of the kids. And of course she didn’t advertise that she wasn’t visiting him or calling him or facilitating an ongoing relationship between him and his siblings - when all of those facts came out is when her fan base went *poof* and why she couldn’t shop another show concept to anyone. She is a vile person, truly.

I am not team Jon either, please don’t get me wrong. I think they are both shallow minded people to bring a litter of babies into the world in the first place, and it was despicable to make them commodities from birth and to violate their privacy their entire childhoods.

I expect we haven’t heard the end of Gosselin family dysfunction. Poor kids.

I suspect the show paid for the institution to keep the family image perfect.

And to avoid having to film Collin not participating. He said in the Vice interview that he no longer wanted to be filmed and then showed clips of him sitting sullenly and silently next to his brothers on a couch when being filmed by the crew. TLC I think are the absolute real villains in all this. The made easily over a hundred million dollars off this family. When you look at all the money the network made, the family got peanuts. Paying for residential treatment-around 80 to 100k a year would be worth it for the network to earn millions.

Try 200-300k.

Yep. And no insurance company would cover three years of that.

The school system would. Special education kids are placed at residential facilities due to behavior issues and it's paid for by the school district. I suspect that's what happened to Collin, because otherwise I don't know how Kate could have afforded it. Obviously the issues have to be pretty bad to qualify for residential.

You would need a diagnosis to get the services. ADHD alone would never cut it.

The "troubled teen industry" is a billion dollar industry and in many facilities, if you pay up, they'll take your kid.

Also, Jon said that when he got Collin from the facility, he asked what his dx was and they said he has no dx.

[Anonymous]

As if the world didn’t watch Mady hit and kick the sextuplets on national television for years…

[Anonymous]

Kate would beat him in his crib, and one time he spilled a bag of beans when he was TWO and she beat him so bad she thought she would hurt him so left him in his crib until Jon got home. According to what Collin disclosed to a court ordered therapist, Kate also zip tied him to chairs and made him sleep in a closet.

I'm not saying being violent is ok for Colin but he has known nothing else since he was a baby apparently.


Reply

[Anonymous]

I really wish someone would just say what Collin has done that’s so terrible. Mady’s accusations are so generalized. Collin openly stated he loves and wants a relationship with his siblings…doesn’t sound like he hates any of them for their sexual identities. Hannah dates a POC, and neither her or her boyfriend appear to have an issue with Collin. Jon's ex-girlfriend's kids are Black and one of them is gay, and he appears to have a very close relationship with her, even though she and Jon have been broken up for years. Who has he abused or threatened with violence? “I can’t speak any further to why Collin has done these things.” What things?! It’s all so vague…and feels like it’s purposely written that way to paint him as a terrible person. Like just say “Collin punched Aaden in the face and told me I was going to hell for being queer.” Or whatever actually happened. The vagueness makes it so dramatic

[Anonymous]

Mady hates anyone who is not as “enlightened” as she is. She’s a hypocrite and (still) a bully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kate would beat him in his crib, and one time he spilled a bag of beans when he was TWO and she beat him so bad she thought she would hurt him so left him in his crib until Jon got home. According to what Collin disclosed to a court ordered therapist, Kate also zip tied him to chairs and made him sleep in a closet.

I'm not saying being violent is ok for Colin but he has known nothing else since he was a baby apparently.


Reply

Weird that no charges were ever brought against Kate if all this is true. Or against a facility imprisoning children with no diagnosis. It's a lot of she said, Jon said, Mady said, nobody really knows what the truth is. It starts getting into conspiracy territory that this was all a big cover up by TLC to protect Kate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mady was my favorite kid when I watched the show. At this point, she’s a mini Kate and her statement shows that she will not stand for hate of any kind, except the kind she herself dishes out.

She really is Kate 2.0 which is not good for her at all.

Agree that her statement was not a good look. My guess is Kate used her to help dole out punishment and she is trying to rationalize. Kate is the true monster who literally had her kid sent away and didn’t even visit. I remember her saying they were not sure of his diagnosis. and my guess is there wasn’t some awful thing so she made stuff up. I feel bad for Colin but he has turned out okay. He is very mature in his interviews. Hannah is so sweet-I imagine it was hard for her to walk away and she is trying to bring everyone together.

That's a lot of guessing and assuming. Her message was clear. She and some of the siblings identify as LGBTQ+ and Collin has made hateful comments and been violent. If there's not a good look its for Collin. Has he denied it yet? Maybe that's who he is. Not a good look for him or his supporters.

Still lots questions, because none of them have seen him since he was 12, and they apparently haven't spoken since he was institutionalized. Is Mady referring to things he said at age 12? That seems a bit extreme. If this is more recent, how was he making the comments and threatening them if they are no contact? And why is Hannah ok with being around Collin if he was so violent to them all? Idk, the timeline is confusing. Also, let's not pretend Mady is perfect. The show is FULL of her beating on her siblings and being mean and hateful to them. Not just when she was little, but also during the later filmings of Kate+8 where she was a pre-teen/teen. She was awful.

Also, Jon's ex-girlfriend's kids are Black and one of them is gay. At some point, all of them were living together. Not sure if Collin still has a relationship with the kids, but he definitely does with Colleen. On his graduation IG post, he shouted Colleen out and she commented a very loving message back. Seems odd, if Collin is so racist and hateful, that Colleen would still want a relationship with him.

Nobody is pretending anyone is perfect. But Mady made some pretty damning allegations. If they aren't true they why isn't Collin speaking out and threatening to sue? And I think it's clear Mady isn't only talking about race so Colleen's support isn't necessarily relevant. People just seem to want to discount any evidence that challenges their preconceived notion of Kate = evil, Collin = sweet angel. There is a lot we probably don't know and the older the kids get the more we'll find out.

They are mother and child - not two equally situated parties. *Many* people on her have acknowledged that Collin likely had challenging behaviors. That doesn’t justify abuse. Unless someone can demonstrate to me that he is seriously dangerous or mentally ill, the facts still show that Kate purposefully got rid of him by sending him to long-term inpatient therapy that was all out of proportion with his condition- and then purposefully isolated him there by refusing to visit and keeping the child’s own father away. We have documented evidence of Kate rejecting and mistreating Collin from a young age. This was the culmination. Whatever supposed insults or fights he engaged in recently with Mady have nothing to do with this history.

You're not going to get someone's medical history as evidence. The family seems pretty tight lipped about what issues Collin has. He has been kicked out of schools, accepted into an institution, and accused of violence and hateful statements, those are also facts. If Kate was protecting the kids from him, it's hard to fault that. How many survivors of abuse wished their parents did that? We don't have the full story, but you're pretending that you somehow have all the facts from a scripted reality show.

You don’t protect your other kids by sending one child inappropriately to an institution, isolating him, and keeping him away from his other parent. Collin may have needed supports but Kate chose a harsh and ostracizing approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was probably just ADHD and defiant, but Kate being a controlling narcissist she needed a scapegoat for her family system to work and she couldn’t send him to Jon because that would blow her image. I suspect she calculated that in her fan base there would be sympathy for her and support for her taking the difficult step to send her special needs child to a residential facility so she could focus, poor single mom that she was, on the rest of the kids. And of course she didn’t advertise that she wasn’t visiting him or calling him or facilitating an ongoing relationship between him and his siblings - when all of those facts came out is when her fan base went *poof* and why she couldn’t shop another show concept to anyone. She is a vile person, truly.

I am not team Jon either, please don’t get me wrong. I think they are both shallow minded people to bring a litter of babies into the world in the first place, and it was despicable to make them commodities from birth and to violate their privacy their entire childhoods.

I expect we haven’t heard the end of Gosselin family dysfunction. Poor kids.

I suspect the show paid for the institution to keep the family image perfect.

And to avoid having to film Collin not participating. He said in the Vice interview that he no longer wanted to be filmed and then showed clips of him sitting sullenly and silently next to his brothers on a couch when being filmed by the crew. TLC I think are the absolute real villains in all this. The made easily over a hundred million dollars off this family. When you look at all the money the network made, the family got peanuts. Paying for residential treatment-around 80 to 100k a year would be worth it for the network to earn millions.

Try 200-300k.

Yep. And no insurance company would cover three years of that.

The school system would. Special education kids are placed at residential facilities due to behavior issues and it's paid for by the school district. I suspect that's what happened to Collin, because otherwise I don't know how Kate could have afforded it. Obviously the issues have to be pretty bad to qualify for residential.

I doubt that’s what happened. We would have heard a lot more about his behavior. And afaik he was never enrolled in public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mady was my favorite kid when I watched the show. At this point, she’s a mini Kate and her statement shows that she will not stand for hate of any kind, except the kind she herself dishes out.

She really is Kate 2.0 which is not good for her at all.

Agree that her statement was not a good look. My guess is Kate used her to help dole out punishment and she is trying to rationalize. Kate is the true monster who literally had her kid sent away and didn’t even visit. I remember her saying they were not sure of his diagnosis. and my guess is there wasn’t some awful thing so she made stuff up. I feel bad for Colin but he has turned out okay. He is very mature in his interviews. Hannah is so sweet-I imagine it was hard for her to walk away and she is trying to bring everyone together.

That's a lot of guessing and assuming. Her message was clear. She and some of the siblings identify as LGBTQ+ and Collin has made hateful comments and been violent. If there's not a good look its for Collin. Has he denied it yet? Maybe that's who he is. Not a good look for him or his supporters.

Still lots questions, because none of them have seen him since he was 12, and they apparently haven't spoken since he was institutionalized. Is Mady referring to things he said at age 12? That seems a bit extreme. If this is more recent, how was he making the comments and threatening them if they are no contact? And why is Hannah ok with being around Collin if he was so violent to them all? Idk, the timeline is confusing. Also, let's not pretend Mady is perfect. The show is FULL of her beating on her siblings and being mean and hateful to them. Not just when she was little, but also during the later filmings of Kate+8 where she was a pre-teen/teen. She was awful.

Also, Jon's ex-girlfriend's kids are Black and one of them is gay. At some point, all of them were living together. Not sure if Collin still has a relationship with the kids, but he definitely does with Colleen. On his graduation IG post, he shouted Colleen out and she commented a very loving message back. Seems odd, if Collin is so racist and hateful, that Colleen would still want a relationship with him.

Nobody is pretending anyone is perfect. But Mady made some pretty damning allegations. If they aren't true they why isn't Collin speaking out and threatening to sue? And I think it's clear Mady isn't only talking about race so Colleen's support isn't necessarily relevant. People just seem to want to discount any evidence that challenges their preconceived notion of Kate = evil, Collin = sweet angel. There is a lot we probably don't know and the older the kids get the more we'll find out.

They are mother and child - not two equally situated parties. *Many* people on her have acknowledged that Collin likely had challenging behaviors. That doesn’t justify abuse. Unless someone can demonstrate to me that he is seriously dangerous or mentally ill, the facts still show that Kate purposefully got rid of him by sending him to long-term inpatient therapy that was all out of proportion with his condition- and then purposefully isolated him there by refusing to visit and keeping the child’s own father away. We have documented evidence of Kate rejecting and mistreating Collin from a young age. This was the culmination. Whatever supposed insults or fights he engaged in recently with Mady have nothing to do with this history.

You're not going to get someone's medical history as evidence. The family seems pretty tight lipped about what issues Collin has. He has been kicked out of schools, accepted into an institution, and accused of violence and hateful statements, those are also facts. If Kate was protecting the kids from him, it's hard to fault that. How many survivors of abuse wished their parents did that? We don't have the full story, but you're pretending that you somehow have all the facts from a scripted reality show.

You don’t protect your other kids by sending one child inappropriately to an institution, isolating him, and keeping him away from his other parent. Collin may have needed supports but Kate chose a harsh and ostracizing approach.

That it was inappropriate is an opinion, not a fact.