Restorative Justice is struggling to show success in MCPS according to students, parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Responsive Classroom works.

https://www.responsiveclassroom.org/about/

MCPS’ made up RJ model does not

Not only does MCPS's RJ model doesn't work, but it is also not implemented consistently across schools. I think it's one of the worst things I've ever seen MCPS do, and it has been the largest contributor to the uptick in violence and fights at schools. In addition, it has brought down the morale of a large number of staff who feel like this has sucked the joy out of teaching. You top that with the removal of SROs, and we're just waiting for a disaster to happen. SO many teachers are miserable.

When it was used at our school to address bullying and worked great. I don't know where you get off speaking for everyone about its effectiveness.

I'm so glad it worked at your school and you just made a great example of my point. It is not implemented the same way across all schools. At my high FARMS, low rated MS school, it has been TERRIBLE for all staff and student victims, largely black and brown. I shared a few examples in a previous post. Please tell me if that's how RJ is supposed to work because if it does, then we have gone mad.

[Anonymous]

I don't know a single teacher in my elementary school who finds RJ to work. I know we're just one school but our building has become a disaster with student behavior issues like PP have mentioned. We have 2nd graders cursing out staff, hitting staff, throwing things at people, running laps around the building...you name the chaos, we have it.
Aside from students who genuinely need special services, we did not have these issues when parents were inconvenienced by a suspension and intake meeting after the third offense. My poor teammate has been dealing with a war zone in her room since September and the kids know that they can get away with literally anything at this point. The future is not looking bright for us right now.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem to be going any better at FCPS. My child's elementary school really pushed for it for a bullying situation in lieu of actually doing anything. The RJ mediator met with the students and opted not to go forward with the process. So, the thing that the school was relying on isn't going to happen.

Naive parents got tricked into this nonsense.

There is a bullying incident in my child's classroom a week ago where they used RJ and it worked beautifully. The problem was completely resolved.

Per MCPS's own report, it's not working "beautifully". It's an abysmal failure.

Well, at our school, RJ helped put an end to my kid being bullied so I have to disagree. It works great.

Can you elaborate? How did it work?

A classmate was punching and pushing my kid down at recess daily. The teacher used RJ and got the kids together in a circle to talk. Afterward, the bully ceased bullying. Despite the many complaints here at least where my kid was concerned it seemed like a great resolution.

As I suspected, this was an elementary school issue. RJ seems most appropriate for many elementary school-level conflicts like this. Where RJ falls about is in the secondary schools where the conflicts can be more fraught with danger and harm beyond hurt feelings.

It's great to just say it only works for ES, but these anecdotal claims are wearing thin.

Could you please post some research studies that speak to the questions being asked here?

No, are your fingers broken or do you have research studies that you would like to add?
As a parent I'm appalled at this social experiment that lacks any sort of grounding in practice which is making my child more stressed out, unsafe and is causing their teachers to be stressed and or leave. It's outrageous.

That couldn't be further from the truth. RJ has shown great results in countless studies. Sure, a few RW astroturfers are against anything that isn't corporal punishment but that's inevitable on DCUM.

The whole reason RJ is popular in education circles is that it's done so well in every peer-reviewed study. Unfortunately, there's a lot of resistance to new ideas, especially from the right who prefer methods like corporal punishment and won't consider anything new.

This is not true. People are willing to try new ideas, provided there's demonstrable efficacy behind them.

RJ has some notions and ideas that simply don't make sense.

For example, RJ coaches say that RJ does not mean no consequences and no accountability, but they also insist consequences and accountability can't be punitive. When asked to give an example of a consequence that held perpetrators accountable but wasn't punitive, they can't muster up an example.

There are some laudable intentions and motivations behind RJ, but they don't seem rooted in the reality of the way human beings operate nor the limitations of the school system.

It is true and just saying it isn't because you don't like it doesn't make it so.

And just because you insist it works and say it works despite the real testified experiences of students, parents and teachers doesn't mean it does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem to be going any better at FCPS. My child's elementary school really pushed for it for a bullying situation in lieu of actually doing anything. The RJ mediator met with the students and opted not to go forward with the process. So, the thing that the school was relying on isn't going to happen.

Naive parents got tricked into this nonsense.

There is a bullying incident in my child's classroom a week ago where they used RJ and it worked beautifully. The problem was completely resolved.

Per MCPS's own report, it's not working "beautifully". It's an abysmal failure.

Well, at our school, RJ helped put an end to my kid being bullied so I have to disagree. It works great.

Can you elaborate? How did it work?

A classmate was punching and pushing my kid down at recess daily. The teacher used RJ and got the kids together in a circle to talk. Afterward, the bully ceased bullying. Despite the many complaints here at least where my kid was concerned it seemed like a great resolution.

As I suspected, this was an elementary school issue. RJ seems most appropriate for many elementary school-level conflicts like this. Where RJ falls about is in the secondary schools where the conflicts can be more fraught with danger and harm beyond hurt feelings.

It's great to just say it only works for ES, but these anecdotal claims are wearing thin.

Could you please post some research studies that speak to the questions being asked here?

No, are your fingers broken or do you have research studies that you would like to add?
As a parent I'm appalled at this social experiment that lacks any sort of grounding in practice which is making my child more stressed out, unsafe and is causing their teachers to be stressed and or leave. It's outrageous.

That couldn't be further from the truth. RJ has shown great results in countless studies. Sure, a few RW astroturfers are against anything that isn't corporal punishment but that's inevitable on DCUM.

The whole reason RJ is popular in education circles is that it's done so well in every peer-reviewed study. Unfortunately, there's a lot of resistance to new ideas, especially from the right who prefer methods like corporal punishment and won't consider anything new.

This is not true. People are willing to try new ideas, provided there's demonstrable efficacy behind them.

RJ has some notions and ideas that simply don't make sense.

For example, RJ coaches say that RJ does not mean no consequences and no accountability, but they also insist consequences and accountability can't be punitive. When asked to give an example of a consequence that held perpetrators accountable but wasn't punitive, they can't muster up an example.

There are some laudable intentions and motivations behind RJ, but they don't seem rooted in the reality of the way human beings operate nor the limitations of the school system.

It is true and just saying it isn't because you don't like it doesn't make it so.

And just because you insist it works and say it works despite the real testified experiences of students, parents and teachers doesn't mean it does.

As the PP pointed out it's beloved in education circles because it works. It's hated by the RWNJs because they hate new ideas and prefer to cling to outdated notions like corporal punishment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:council is getting briefed on it monday.

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/council/Resources/Files/agenda/cm/2023/20230320/20230320_PSEC1.pdf

tons of data here but hard to wade thru

I just read/scrolled through the relevant parts for my high school. My high school has some of the highest referral numbers. I know we have restorative circles (at least 15), but honestly referrals, discipline, RJ never gets discussed or mentioned to staff. I have no idea who is on our RJ team or if we have a leader for RJ in the school. A lot of communication problems in general in my opinion.

I hope the BoE doesn’t get some happy talk version of the success of RJ. I can’t say it is very visible or effective at my school. It has potential, but I feel we would need an admin change first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know a single teacher in my elementary school who finds RJ to work. I know we're just one school but our building has become a disaster with student behavior issues like PP have mentioned. We have 2nd graders cursing out staff, hitting staff, throwing things at people, running laps around the building...you name the chaos, we have it.
Aside from students who genuinely need special services, we did not have these issues when parents were inconvenienced by a suspension and intake meeting after the third offense. My poor teammate has been dealing with a war zone in her room since September and the kids know that they can get away with literally anything at this point. The future is not looking bright for us right now.

Most of my students issues relate to disrespectful hallway encounters or students bickering. I am not sure what to do when a random kid enters my room and says “fxxx this class. I’m out.” Too many kids have no boundaries and there aren’t any real consequences anymore.

[Anonymous]

RJ is just another weapon to kill off MCPS. We have 3 years left. We moved here for the schools several years ago. Very disappointed now with MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:RJ is just another weapon to kill off MCPS. We have 3 years left. We moved here for the schools several years ago. Very disappointed now with MCPS.

If you left 3 years ago, how are you disappointed now. It has no impact on you. Move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RJ is just another weapon to kill off MCPS. We have 3 years left. We moved here for the schools several years ago. Very disappointed now with MCPS.

If you left 3 years ago, how are you disappointed now. It has no impact on you. Move on.

You need to slow down and re-read my post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know a single teacher in my elementary school who finds RJ to work. I know we're just one school but our building has become a disaster with student behavior issues like PP have mentioned. We have 2nd graders cursing out staff, hitting staff, throwing things at people, running laps around the building...you name the chaos, we have it.
Aside from students who genuinely need special services, we did not have these issues when parents were inconvenienced by a suspension and intake meeting after the third offense. My poor teammate has been dealing with a war zone in her room since September and the kids know that they can get away with literally anything at this point. The future is not looking bright for us right now.

School need to call parents and tell them to come get their kids. Simple. If parents also don't know what's going on they cannot do anything about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know a single teacher in my elementary school who finds RJ to work. I know we're just one school but our building has become a disaster with student behavior issues like PP have mentioned. We have 2nd graders cursing out staff, hitting staff, throwing things at people, running laps around the building...you name the chaos, we have it.
Aside from students who genuinely need special services, we did not have these issues when parents were inconvenienced by a suspension and intake meeting after the third offense. My poor teammate has been dealing with a war zone in her room since September and the kids know that they can get away with literally anything at this point. The future is not looking bright for us right now.

School need to call parents and tell them to come get their kids. Simple. If parents also don't know what's going on they cannot do anything about it.

I'm an administrator - if we call parents to pick up a disruptive student early we have to mark it as a suspension. Suspensions require approval from our area director. Our directors put up a HUGE stink when we ask permission to suspend. Suspension numbers count against school and the district. Kids and their parents have caught on that there's no consequences. Our teachers are doing the best that they can but our hands are tied at the school level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't seem to be going any better at FCPS. My child's elementary school really pushed for it for a bullying situation in lieu of actually doing anything. The RJ mediator met with the students and opted not to go forward with the process. So, the thing that the school was relying on isn't going to happen.

Naive parents got tricked into this nonsense.

There is a bullying incident in my child's classroom a week ago where they used RJ and it worked beautifully. The problem was completely resolved.

Per MCPS's own report, it's not working "beautifully". It's an abysmal failure.

Well, at our school, RJ helped put an end to my kid being bullied so I have to disagree. It works great.

Can you elaborate? How did it work?

A classmate was punching and pushing my kid down at recess daily. The teacher used RJ and got the kids together in a circle to talk. Afterward, the bully ceased bullying. Despite the many complaints here at least where my kid was concerned it seemed like a great resolution.

As I suspected, this was an elementary school issue. RJ seems most appropriate for many elementary school-level conflicts like this. Where RJ falls about is in the secondary schools where the conflicts can be more fraught with danger and harm beyond hurt feelings.

It's great to just say it only works for ES, but these anecdotal claims are wearing thin.

Could you please post some research studies that speak to the questions being asked here?

No, are your fingers broken or do you have research studies that you would like to add?
As a parent I'm appalled at this social experiment that lacks any sort of grounding in practice which is making my child more stressed out, unsafe and is causing their teachers to be stressed and or leave. It's outrageous.

That couldn't be further from the truth. RJ has shown great results in countless studies. Sure, a few RW astroturfers are against anything that isn't corporal punishment but that's inevitable on DCUM.

The whole reason RJ is popular in education circles is that it's done so well in every peer-reviewed study. Unfortunately, there's a lot of resistance to new ideas, especially from the right who prefer methods like corporal punishment and won't consider anything new.

This is not true. People are willing to try new ideas, provided there's demonstrable efficacy behind them.

RJ has some notions and ideas that simply don't make sense.

For example, RJ coaches say that RJ does not mean no consequences and no accountability, but they also insist consequences and accountability can't be punitive. When asked to give an example of a consequence that held perpetrators accountable but wasn't punitive, they can't muster up an example.

There are some laudable intentions and motivations behind RJ, but they don't seem rooted in the reality of the way human beings operate nor the limitations of the school system.

It is true and just saying it isn't because you don't like it doesn't make it so.

And just because you insist it works and say it works despite the real testified experiences of students, parents and teachers doesn't mean it does.

As the PP pointed out it's beloved in education circles because it works. It's hated by the RWNJs because they hate new ideas and prefer to cling to outdated notions like corporal punishment.

Post it again and maybe the third time, it will be true. Or you could click your heels together. That might work.

But RJ doesn’t.

[Anonymous]

Did I post this already? Apologies if I did. My son is in high school and has a great first period teacher. She's very clear on expectations, great instructor, and maintains classroom focus and safety pretty well.

A week or so ago, two kids came into class late, which the teacher hates, but they reeked of weed and were obviously high. Probably came in after hotboxing out in the parking lot. The whole class was just staring at them, and she told them to report to the office. They wouldn't go and were just giggling, playing on their phones. And she stood up and told them to leave. They rolled their eyes, and the guy said "f you bi...." and they left.

Not violence, but so disruptive, and the other kids' learning gets disrupted too. I am sure teachers DO NOT want to put up with this stuff. If it's a one-off, it's not as bad. However, these types of disruptions are a fairly regular occurrence.

Anyway, no consequences for those kids. The high school can't do anything when kids smell like weed anyway, even if that alone is disrupting the class. But apparently it's difficult to get obviously high kids out of the classroom too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did I post this already? Apologies if I did. My son is in high school and has a great first period teacher. She's very clear on expectations, great instructor, and maintains classroom focus and safety pretty well.

A week or so ago, two kids came into class late, which the teacher hates, but they reeked of weed and were obviously high. Probably came in after hotboxing out in the parking lot. The whole class was just staring at them, and she told them to report to the office. They wouldn't go and were just giggling, playing on their phones. And she stood up and told them to leave. They rolled their eyes, and the guy said "f you bi...." and they left.

Not violence, but so disruptive, and the other kids' learning gets disrupted too. I am sure teachers DO NOT want to put up with this stuff. If it's a one-off, it's not as bad. However, these types of disruptions are a fairly regular occurrence.

Anyway, no consequences for those kids. The high school can't do anything when kids smell like weed anyway, even if that alone is disrupting the class. But apparently it's difficult to get obviously high kids out of the classroom too.

Weed is a tough one since there is no test a cop can administer. Usually kids high on weed are not that disruptive and admin/teachers will just let them sleep it off in class or in the school somewhere. The issue here is that there were two of them escalating eachother by wanting to put on a show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know a single teacher in my elementary school who finds RJ to work. I know we're just one school but our building has become a disaster with student behavior issues like PP have mentioned. We have 2nd graders cursing out staff, hitting staff, throwing things at people, running laps around the building...you name the chaos, we have it.
Aside from students who genuinely need special services, we did not have these issues when parents were inconvenienced by a suspension and intake meeting after the third offense. My poor teammate has been dealing with a war zone in her room since September and the kids know that they can get away with literally anything at this point. The future is not looking bright for us right now.

School need to call parents and tell them to come get their kids. Simple. If parents also don't know what's going on they cannot do anything about it.

I'm an administrator - if we call parents to pick up a disruptive student early we have to mark it as a suspension. Suspensions require approval from our area director. Our directors put up a HUGE stink when we ask permission to suspend. Suspension numbers count against school and the district. Kids and their parents have caught on that there's no consequences. Our teachers are doing the best that they can but our hands are tied at the school level.

RJ was started during the Obama era as too many minority children were being suspended. A school and school district are evaluated now on the number of suspensions that the district has. If the school and/or district have "0" suspensions then the administration is considered to be doing a good job.