Squandered elite education

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

Why do all these 30 year olds keep posting? You had a rich repository of information about COL and career paths on the internet to guide you.

And it’s been pointed out for the older Ivy graduates you always had excellent career centers and recruiting opportunities.

None of which ever discussed salaries, which is the point of OP. Career center was all about passion and interest and how to help the world. Recruitment might have alluded to starting salary and “growth” but never talked about hard numbers unless maybe at the final offer stage.

If you could not figure this out on your own, you did not and still don’t have the skills to navigate the big jobs with the big salaries. High paying jobs are extremely competitive, no one will tell you how to get them.

Figure out salaries on your own? Talking about salaries was very gauche in the 90s — so basically if you weren’t already in the inner circle of UMC professionals you were screwed either way?

Not to be pedantic but c’mon, you don’t need the actual salary to have a good sense of ballpark for IBanking, Medicine, Law, Accounting, Teaching etc etc. That info was easily available in books and newspaper and magazine articles if you cared to do the research.

OP’s issue is not that he did not negotiate well, he missed the ball completely by picking a non lucrative path. The people who need to be handheld like this cannot rise up the ranks to make the big bucks.

Again, for the Nth time: You don’t know what you don’t know. When I went to college, the professionals I knew either worked in schools and universities, or were doctors. That’s pretty much it. So explain to me — pedantically— at what point the wealthy, almost exclusively white - people doing things like investment banking were going to tell me about such careers so I could seek out more information? FWIW, the doctors, lawyers, and accountants that I was dimly aware of were not wealthy.
What people like you don’t get is that you need to know that something exists to look for it, and that’s before you even get to understanding whether or not something is even possible for you. I’ve said this before, but if you grew up with the internet, if you grew up white and financially comfortable and surrounded by people doing the kinds of things that lead to and support wealth you may not be able to understand realities that don’t include those things.

Happy Thanksgiving!

I am the immigrant poster who wrote upthread. I figured this stuff out, as a teen, within two years of landing in this country. Sure there were lots of things I did not know, all the cultural nuances and subtext of the UMC and upper classes, how to negotiate, how to build and leverage a network. You learn along the way if you pay attention. But where the money was? I learned that quickly and there were plenty resources. Maybe it was because I was an immigrant and could see right through the cultural propaganda you were fed in HS and College.

Wow, it must been really hard being an immigrant in a rural area. I think being literally hungry is a thing: you were motivated to seek out making as much money as you could. LMC folks in rural areas were generally content enough to just want to do a professional job and have a comfortable life — we weren’t looking for beach houses and yachts — and completely unaware how expensive even a modest UMC life is. So we fell for that stupid “follow your passion” propaganda rather than being laser focused on money. The issue isn’t just how to seek high income careers, but the necessity in almost all urban areas (otherwise you have dual working couples with long commutes and crummy schools like in the OP).

+1. I was never even aiming for a UMC life. I was looking at my parents living on one income in a house they bought for $40k and thinking "I don't need more than this, so I don't need to maximize income, just have a professional career and I'll be fine." It's different now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

No one makes $275k / year in the federal government unless you are a contractor or a senior SES. If a contractor, you're a second class citizen to the fed workers and your salary can change at the next re-compete.

By the way, salaries for cybersecurity and IT folks in general plateau in your 30s and 40s, and job security is low into your 50s. The young kids coming up are always going to be pushing you out of your job.

You must be an ill-informed person. DHS was authorized to change the rule in 2021 to hire cybersecurity professionals with salaries up to 332K in order to compete with the private sector. Quite a few people that I know left the private sector to join DHS for 250K+ salaries. For many of them, they took a pay cut to join DHS because they believe in the mission at DHS.

You're describing the CTMS which has been rolled out in very, very limited amounts. The normal pay scale for DHS/CISA is the regular GS scale with a 25% "cyberpay" retention bonus paid out after the first year of service on a bi-weekly basis. That tops out around $225k/year.

So the PP is either one of the very few CTMS hires (who has outed themselves like an idiot by identifying their undergrad) or they're exaggerating. Or they're an SES (I don't think CISA has any SLs).

Either way, they work at DHS, so we should all feel bad for them regardless if their income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

Why do all these 30 year olds keep posting? You had a rich repository of information about COL and career paths on the internet to guide you.

And it’s been pointed out for the older Ivy graduates you always had excellent career centers and recruiting opportunities.

None of which ever discussed salaries, which is the point of OP. Career center was all about passion and interest and how to help the world. Recruitment might have alluded to starting salary and “growth” but never talked about hard numbers unless maybe at the final offer stage.

If you could not figure this out on your own, you did not and still don’t have the skills to navigate the big jobs with the big salaries. High paying jobs are extremely competitive, no one will tell you how to get them.

Figure out salaries on your own? Talking about salaries was very gauche in the 90s — so basically if you weren’t already in the inner circle of UMC professionals you were screwed either way?

Exactly. I can’t believe the posters who are saying everyone was discussing salaries and $$ requirements for a UMC life. It would have been considered so tacky back then. No one who actually was UMC or above ever talked about these things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

Why do all these 30 year olds keep posting? You had a rich repository of information about COL and career paths on the internet to guide you.

And it’s been pointed out for the older Ivy graduates you always had excellent career centers and recruiting opportunities.

None of which ever discussed salaries, which is the point of OP. Career center was all about passion and interest and how to help the world. Recruitment might have alluded to starting salary and “growth” but never talked about hard numbers unless maybe at the final offer stage.

If you could not figure this out on your own, you did not and still don’t have the skills to navigate the big jobs with the big salaries. High paying jobs are extremely competitive, no one will tell you how to get them.

Figure out salaries on your own? Talking about salaries was very gauche in the 90s — so basically if you weren’t already in the inner circle of UMC professionals you were screwed either way?

Exactly. I can’t believe the posters who are saying everyone was discussing salaries and $$ requirements for a UMC life. It would have been considered so tacky back then. No one who actually was UMC or above ever talked about these things.

Vault was started in 1997, so it clearly saw a need for salary info — but COL difference and the necessity of UMC would have been harder to find. Salary info still kind of hard to track down, that’s why Glassdoor still exists despite being fairly useless above entry level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember buying Vault guides at the bookstore. That was where I learned about ibanking and consulting salaries and bonuses.

+1 vault guides were a thing

First published in 1996. Those of us who graduated prior to that didn’t have Vault Guides or the internet resources that most people have access to now. Some of you younger people really can’t fathom how limited access to information was through the early 90’s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

No one makes $275k / year in the federal government unless you are a contractor or a senior SES. If a contractor, you're a second class citizen to the fed workers and your salary can change at the next re-compete.

By the way, salaries for cybersecurity and IT folks in general plateau in your 30s and 40s, and job security is low into your 50s. The young kids coming up are always going to be pushing you out of your job.

You must be an ill-informed person. DHS was authorized to change the rule in 2021 to hire cybersecurity professionals with salaries up to 332K in order to compete with the private sector. Quite a few people that I know left the private sector to join DHS for 250K+ salaries. For many of them, they took a pay cut to join DHS because they believe in the mission at DHS.

You're describing the CTMS which has been rolled out in very, very limited amounts. The normal pay scale for DHS/CISA is the regular GS scale with a 25% "cyberpay" retention bonus paid out after the first year of service on a bi-weekly basis. That tops out around $225k/year.

So the PP is either one of the very few CTMS hires (who has outed themselves like an idiot by identifying their undergrad) or they're exaggerating. Or they're an SES (I don't think CISA has any SLs).

Either way, they work at DHS, so we should all feel bad for them regardless if their income.

The irony of a cybersecurity expert DOXIng themselves on DCUM by bragging about their salary…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember buying Vault guides at the bookstore. That was where I learned about ibanking and consulting salaries and bonuses.

+1 vault guides were a thing

First published in 1996. Those of us who graduated prior to that didn’t have Vault Guides or the internet resources that most people have access to now. Some of you younger people really can’t fathom how limited access to information was through the early 90’s.

As an undergrad, no idea how I would know if the brand new “salary guide” was legitimate or just some fake dot.com nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

No one makes $275k / year in the federal government unless you are a contractor or a senior SES. If a contractor, you're a second class citizen to the fed workers and your salary can change at the next re-compete.

By the way, salaries for cybersecurity and IT folks in general plateau in your 30s and 40s, and job security is low into your 50s. The young kids coming up are always going to be pushing you out of your job.

You must be an ill-informed person. DHS was authorized to change the rule in 2021 to hire cybersecurity professionals with salaries up to 332K in order to compete with the private sector. Quite a few people that I know left the private sector to join DHS for 250K+ salaries. For many of them, they took a pay cut to join DHS because they believe in the mission at DHS.

You're describing the CTMS which has been rolled out in very, very limited amounts. The normal pay scale for DHS/CISA is the regular GS scale with a 25% "cyberpay" retention bonus paid out after the first year of service on a bi-weekly basis. That tops out around $225k/year.

So the PP is either one of the very few CTMS hires (who has outed themselves like an idiot by identifying their undergrad) or they're exaggerating. Or they're an SES (I don't think CISA has any SLs).

Either way, they work at DHS, so we should all feel bad for them regardless if their income.

The irony of a cybersecurity expert DOXIng themselves on DCUM by bragging about their salary…

LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

Why do all these 30 year olds keep posting? You had a rich repository of information about COL and career paths on the internet to guide you.

And it’s been pointed out for the older Ivy graduates you always had excellent career centers and recruiting opportunities.

None of which ever discussed salaries, which is the point of OP. Career center was all about passion and interest and how to help the world. Recruitment might have alluded to starting salary and “growth” but never talked about hard numbers unless maybe at the final offer stage.

If you could not figure this out on your own, you did not and still don’t have the skills to navigate the big jobs with the big salaries. High paying jobs are extremely competitive, no one will tell you how to get them.

Figure out salaries on your own? Talking about salaries was very gauche in the 90s — so basically if you weren’t already in the inner circle of UMC professionals you were screwed either way?

Exactly. I can’t believe the posters who are saying everyone was discussing salaries and $$ requirements for a UMC life. It would have been considered so tacky back then. No one who actually was UMC or above ever talked about these things.

If a UMC GF dated a LMC BF, would she clue him in? Or vice versa? Though inter class dating is fairly rare to be serious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

Why do all these 30 year olds keep posting? You had a rich repository of information about COL and career paths on the internet to guide you.

And it’s been pointed out for the older Ivy graduates you always had excellent career centers and recruiting opportunities.

None of which ever discussed salaries, which is the point of OP. Career center was all about passion and interest and how to help the world. Recruitment might have alluded to starting salary and “growth” but never talked about hard numbers unless maybe at the final offer stage.

If you could not figure this out on your own, you did not and still don’t have the skills to navigate the big jobs with the big salaries. High paying jobs are extremely competitive, no one will tell you how to get them.

Figure out salaries on your own? Talking about salaries was very gauche in the 90s — so basically if you weren’t already in the inner circle of UMC professionals you were screwed either way?

Exactly. I can’t believe the posters who are saying everyone was discussing salaries and $$ requirements for a UMC life. It would have been considered so tacky back then. No one who actually was UMC or above ever talked about these things.

If a UMC GF dated a LMC BF, would she clue him in? Or vice versa? Though inter class dating is fairly rare to be serious.

Yes! My family is UUMC and never discussed salary or job strategies or anything and just encouraged me to pursue whatever I wanted to do, so I feel like I could have made better choices $$ wise. And I wasn't pushed to work hard, just have fun. I think this is one of the reasons why WASPs are where they are now.

[Anonymous]

Suburban Ivy loser here.

I think a lot of posters don't seem to realize that a lot of us are in our 50s. Gen-X.

For me, I graduated HS in 1989, and college in 1993.

The internet was not a thing yet -- at least for the general population. We found things out either by word-of-mouth, or through books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Suburban Ivy loser here.

I think a lot of posters don't seem to realize that a lot of us are in our 50s. Gen-X.

For me, I graduated HS in 1989, and college in 1993.

The internet was not a thing yet -- at least for the general population. We found things out either by word-of-mouth, or through books.

I think with exploding college costs and student debt, as well as salary inequality between genders and minorities, we suddenly turned to focus on the ROI of college (another thread on this) and that kind of opened the door for people more frankly talking about salaries. As well as internet, and Glassdoor, LinkedIn providing much more insight into work as an institution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Suburban Ivy loser here.

I think a lot of posters don't seem to realize that a lot of us are in our 50s. Gen-X.

For me, I graduated HS in 1989, and college in 1993.

The internet was not a thing yet -- at least for the general population. We found things out either by word-of-mouth, or through books.

I agree. People who have grown up with access to information because of the internet and even cable TV probably just aren’t able to imagine or appreciate what that’s like. Even access to books probably means that someone or something else that you read had to mention the book.
I also think that people who grew up surrounded by professionals casually sharing information of all kinds have absolutely no idea all that people don’t get when they’re not exposed to that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

Why do all these 30 year olds keep posting? You had a rich repository of information about COL and career paths on the internet to guide you.

And it’s been pointed out for the older Ivy graduates you always had excellent career centers and recruiting opportunities.

None of which ever discussed salaries, which is the point of OP. Career center was all about passion and interest and how to help the world. Recruitment might have alluded to starting salary and “growth” but never talked about hard numbers unless maybe at the final offer stage.

If you could not figure this out on your own, you did not and still don’t have the skills to navigate the big jobs with the big salaries. High paying jobs are extremely competitive, no one will tell you how to get them.

Figure out salaries on your own? Talking about salaries was very gauche in the 90s — so basically if you weren’t already in the inner circle of UMC professionals you were screwed either way?

Exactly. I can’t believe the posters who are saying everyone was discussing salaries and $$ requirements for a UMC life. It would have been considered so tacky back then. No one who actually was UMC or above ever talked about these things.

If a UMC GF dated a LMC BF, would she clue him in? Or vice versa? Though inter class dating is fairly rare to be serious.

Yes! My family is UUMC and never discussed salary or job strategies or anything and just encouraged me to pursue whatever I wanted to do, so I feel like I could have made better choices $$ wise. And I wasn't pushed to work hard, just have fun. I think this is one of the reasons why WASPs are where they are now.

This strategy really only worked for UMC white boomers. Those times are loonnngg gone. Time to put in the work and think about ROI like every minority family has encouraged for decades.

[Anonymous]

OP, it sounds like your elite education opened doors for many jobs for you, though they may not have paid a ton. I likely would not even have been considered for these kinds of jobs bc the interviewers would not have heard of where I went to school (Midwest, non-elite school). At least your education opened up various opportunities for you.