The PG Pool is racist [MD]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is silly. We joined the PG pool in 2011, and there was no waitlist. Previously the pool even offered half season memberships because there was so little demand. The recent upswing in demand is simply the number of families with young kids moving into Brookland, Woodridge and Mount Rainier. Are the Cheverly people pissed about who belongs to Cheverly? Because that’s where folks from the Hill go. Or Adelphi? Families with young kids are going to want to join a pool rather than go to mediocre county or DC pools.

PGP is not a fancy pool at all- just a coop with with a cement pool house and a nasty damp locker room.

What percent of PGP members are white?

...crickets.

How would anyone know? There is no moment when the entire membership gathers. Race is not registered on applications. There is no moment when the entire membership is there. But it is not, by any means all-white.

I don't think the board collects addresses. Anyway, what would stop someone from moving? Or using someone elses address?
It would be unusual and extraordinary to collect that type of demographic data on people asking to join a pool.
Isn’t there a Board of Directors whose business is to know these things?

I assume you get addresses of members, right? The Board could just publish how many people actually live in Mount Rainier and put this issue to rest.

don't think the board collects addresses. Anyway, what would stop someone from moving? Or using someone elses address?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is silly. We joined the PG pool in 2011, and there was no waitlist. Previously the pool even offered half season memberships because there was so little demand. The recent upswing in demand is simply the number of families with young kids moving into Brookland, Woodridge and Mount Rainier. Are the Cheverly people pissed about who belongs to Cheverly? Because that’s where folks from the Hill go. Or Adelphi? Families with young kids are going to want to join a pool rather than go to mediocre county or DC pools.

PGP is not a fancy pool at all- just a coop with with a cement pool house and a nasty damp locker room.

What percent of PGP members are white?

...crickets.

How would anyone know? There is no moment when the entire membership gathers. Race is not registered on applications. There is no moment when the entire membership is there. But it is not, by any means all-white.

It would be unusual and extraordinary to collect that type of demographic data on people asking to join a pool.
Isn’t there a Board of Directors whose business is to know these things?

How and why would the board of a pool collect that info? I would find it intrusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems like a great story one of the local news channels should highlight. Are current members able to privately sell their membership so that no one on the waitlist moves off?

I think it can get passed along to other family members, so Black and Brown folks (and their children) in the community never really get a chance to join. Look how long this wait list is: https://mspremium.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/sites/123/2022/05/2022-05-05-Waitlist.pdf

Racism is slow to die.

The list is extensive but many pools don't maintain the waitlist other than when a slot becomes open and they start contacting people. Some pools will send out a once a year email asking people to confirm they want to be on the list but some don't bother. That means while the list is very long, if a space opens, they might contact 10 -20 or more people before they find someone who still lives in the vicinity and is still interested.
This is especially true when wait lists have no barrier to entry ie no application and no fee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Putting the race issue aside for a moment, I think another big issue for me is that it can appear as if families who would never want to live in PGC - b/c of crime, the schools, the demographics, etc. - want to take up slots at this pool.

Seeing those DC license plates in the PG pool parking lot just rub a lot of people the wrong way.

Oh come on. MD residents can't have the benefit of proximity to DC (driving on DC roads to jobs in DC and businesses in DC) without also having DC residents using amenities in their neighborhoods as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems like a great story one of the local news channels should highlight. Are current members able to privately sell their membership so that no one on the waitlist moves off?

I think it can get passed along to other family members, so Black and Brown folks (and their children) in the community never really get a chance to join. Look how long this wait list is: https://mspremium.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/sites/123/2022/05/2022-05-05-Waitlist.pdf

Racism is slow to die.

The list is extensive but many pools don't maintain the waitlist other than when a slot becomes open and they start contacting people. Some pools will send out a once a year email asking people to confirm they want to be on the list but some don't bother. That means while the list is very long, if a space opens, they might contact 10 -20 or more people before they find someone who still lives in the vicinity and is still interested.
This is especially true when wait lists have no barrier to entry ie no application and no fee.

PP say that the pool doesn't collect basic information like addresses, so what is preventing people from just adding new family members effectively passing the membership on to the next generation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems like a great story one of the local news channels should highlight. Are current members able to privately sell their membership so that no one on the waitlist moves off?

I think it can get passed along to other family members, so Black and Brown folks (and their children) in the community never really get a chance to join. Look how long this wait list is: https://mspremium.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/sites/123/2022/05/2022-05-05-Waitlist.pdf

Racism is slow to die.

The list is extensive but many pools don't maintain the waitlist other than when a slot becomes open and they start contacting people. Some pools will send out a once a year email asking people to confirm they want to be on the list but some don't bother. That means while the list is very long, if a space opens, they might contact 10 -20 or more people before they find someone who still lives in the vicinity and is still interested.
This is especially true when wait lists have no barrier to entry ie no application and no fee.

YOu can't pass it down no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems like a great story one of the local news channels should highlight. Are current members able to privately sell their membership so that no one on the waitlist moves off?

I think it can get passed along to other family members, so Black and Brown folks (and their children) in the community never really get a chance to join. Look how long this wait list is: https://mspremium.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/sites/123/2022/05/2022-05-05-Waitlist.pdf

Racism is slow to die.

The list is extensive but many pools don't maintain the waitlist other than when a slot becomes open and they start contacting people. Some pools will send out a once a year email asking people to confirm they want to be on the list but some don't bother. That means while the list is very long, if a space opens, they might contact 10 -20 or more people before they find someone who still lives in the vicinity and is still interested.
This is especially true when wait lists have no barrier to entry ie no application and no fee.

PP say that the pool doesn't collect basic information like addresses, so what is preventing people from just adding new family members effectively passing the membership on to the next generation?

That's against the rules. Someone got kicked out last year who tried to pass membership to a renter when moving out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems like a great story one of the local news channels should highlight. Are current members able to privately sell their membership so that no one on the waitlist moves off?

I think it can get passed along to other family members, so Black and Brown folks (and their children) in the community never really get a chance to join. Look how long this wait list is: https://mspremium.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/sites/123/2022/05/2022-05-05-Waitlist.pdf

Racism is slow to die.

That waitlist started in 2013. Anyone of any color or anything can get on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is silly. We joined the PG pool in 2011, and there was no waitlist. Previously the pool even offered half season memberships because there was so little demand. The recent upswing in demand is simply the number of families with young kids moving into Brookland, Woodridge and Mount Rainier. Are the Cheverly people pissed about who belongs to Cheverly? Because that’s where folks from the Hill go. Or Adelphi? Families with young kids are going to want to join a pool rather than go to mediocre county or DC pools.

PGP is not a fancy pool at all- just a coop with with a cement pool house and a nasty damp locker room.

What percent of PGP members are white?

...crickets.

How would anyone know? There is no moment when the entire membership gathers. Race is not registered on applications. There is no moment when the entire membership is there. But it is not, by any means all-white.

It would be unusual and extraordinary to collect that type of demographic data on people asking to join a pool.
Isn’t there a Board of Directors whose business is to know these things?

How and why would the board of a pool collect that info? I would find it intrusive.

Technically private swim clubs do have a general membership meeting each year and the intention is that all members attend to discuss club business and make club decisions. So there is a least one moment designated for the entire membership to gather. The number of people who actually attend is a different story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Putting the race issue aside for a moment, I think another big issue for me is that it can appear as if families who would never want to live in PGC - b/c of crime, the schools, the demographics, etc. - want to take up slots at this pool.

Seeing those DC license plates in the PG pool parking lot just rub a lot of people the wrong way.

Why though? I live in PG and go into DC to "use their stuff" all the time. I also have plenty of friends who live in PG and swim at Turkey Thicket in the winter. We're all very close in proximity.

Yeah but do you denigrate DC? Probably not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Putting the race issue aside for a moment, I think another big issue for me is that it can appear as if families who would never want to live in PGC - b/c of crime, the schools, the demographics, etc. - want to take up slots at this pool.

Seeing those DC license plates in the PG pool parking lot just rub a lot of people the wrong way.

Why though? I live in PG and go into DC to "use their stuff" all the time. I also have plenty of friends who live in PG and swim at Turkey Thicket in the winter. We're all very close in proximity.

Yeah but do you denigrate DC? Probably not.

What evidence do we have that the members of PG Pool who live in DC also denigrate PG County? This is kind of a leap. And also, yes. I do. Sometimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PG pool has the same legacy racism problems that other private clubs have.

It is widely hated in the neighborhood because we know we’ll never get off the wait list.

Some people want to have a constructive conversation about what the pool could do to address its racist history. There are a bunch of good ideas out there. None of them move most of us neighbors up the waitlist though.

Mt Rainier has its fair share of useless busybodies who just like to complain and the pool is an easy target.

I don't think that's true, given the circumstances here.

1. Fifty years ago, PG Pool had racist policies.
2. They changed those policies in 1975.
3. In the 1990s through 2010-11, membership was so low that there was no waiting list. This wasn't a short-term occurrence, it lasted for decades. Anyone, of any race, could (and did) join just by signing up and paying the fee.
4. The pool recently has become more popular, and there's a wait list, that's open to all.

In other words, this isn't a "legacy racism problem" - it's a racist past that has been addressed, and now race-neutral factors have combined to create a wait list, and inhibited people in the neighborhood (and everywhere) from joining. But having a wait list isn't evidence of a legacy racism problem. It might be if there's been a wait list going all the way back to 1975, but the extended time period where anyone could join really eliminates that argument (for anyone who's honestly thinking about this, anyway).

Do u think ppl who were excluded from this pool for decades would suddenly feel welcomed to join after 1975? Racism takes a long time to work it’s way out of the social fabric of a society.

True. And that might be particularly true if the process —rather than being transparently first-come-first-served — involved an application for acceptance by an all white board, and taking a chance on paying the fees without some minimal assurance that your family would genuinely be welcomed. It’s also hard to be the first. Many people —adults and kids — were already experiencing being the firsts of small numbers of Black Americans integrating schools and professional environments. Adding on additional stressors from what should be a fun relaxing experience might have been a factor at the time as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a member of the pool and my neighbor's cousin (or nephew) lives in the apartments next to the pool. I asked him why he didn't join the pool and he said they already have a pool- at the apartments. He though it was a ridiculous question. I'm also old enough that I remember posting flyers all over the apartments and throughout the town when the pool needed members.

Not all the apartments have pools, only one does. This just shows how little the PGP interlopers know about the community surrounding their community pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PG pool has the same legacy racism problems that other private clubs have.

It is widely hated in the neighborhood because we know we’ll never get off the wait list.

Some people want to have a constructive conversation about what the pool could do to address its racist history. There are a bunch of good ideas out there. None of them move most of us neighbors up the waitlist though.

Mt Rainier has its fair share of useless busybodies who just like to complain and the pool is an easy target.

I don't think that's true, given the circumstances here.

1. Fifty years ago, PG Pool had racist policies.
2. They changed those policies in 1975.
3. In the 1990s through 2010-11, membership was so low that there was no waiting list. This wasn't a short-term occurrence, it lasted for decades. Anyone, of any race, could (and did) join just by signing up and paying the fee.
4. The pool recently has become more popular, and there's a wait list, that's open to all.

In other words, this isn't a "legacy racism problem" - it's a racist past that has been addressed, and now race-neutral factors have combined to create a wait list, and inhibited people in the neighborhood (and everywhere) from joining. But having a wait list isn't evidence of a legacy racism problem. It might be if there's been a wait list going all the way back to 1975, but the extended time period where anyone could join really eliminates that argument (for anyone who's honestly thinking about this, anyway).

Do u think ppl who were excluded from this pool for decades would suddenly feel welcomed to join after 1975? Racism takes a long time to work it’s way out of the social fabric of a society.

True. And that might be particularly true if the process —rather than being transparently first-come-first-served — involved an application for acceptance by an all white board, and taking a chance on paying the fees without some minimal assurance that your family would genuinely be welcomed. It’s also hard to be the first. Many people —adults and kids — were already experiencing being the firsts of small numbers of Black Americans integrating schools and professional environments. Adding on additional stressors from what should be a fun relaxing experience might have been a factor at the time as well.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a member of the pool and my neighbor's cousin (or nephew) lives in the apartments next to the pool. I asked him why he didn't join the pool and he said they already have a pool- at the apartments. He though it was a ridiculous question. I'm also old enough that I remember posting flyers all over the apartments and throughout the town when the pool needed members.

Not all the apartments have pools, only one does. This just shows how little the PGP interlopers know about the community surrounding their community pool.

Do you think people who live in the apartments should get to use other private businesses at a discounted rate or cut in line in front of other people?