Clustering of special Ed kids in gen Ed

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The best years my gen Ed kid has had have been in inclusion classrooms. The unfounded judgment of kids with IEPs is disgusting.

It's not unfounded for many kids in these inclusive classrooms who have had very negative, even traumatic experiences.

My kid had to see a therapist for anxiety related to going to school in her inclusive class. Why? Because two students in the class regularly had meltdowns that caused the classroom to be evacuated. These meltdowns included lots of yelling, throwing items, and in a few cases, outright assault on the teacher and aide.

It got to the point where their class was evacuating the classroom weekly. The one student's behavior just got more and more destructive to the point where he trashed a classroom one time and the kids had to finish out the day in neighboring classrooms.

That's UNACCEPTABLE behavior for anyone. My kid shouldn't have been scared of going to school because of two students who, and I will just keep it real, are never going to amount to anything. One student is mostly nonverbal with significant delays. I cannot think of any job that he can do in his future. It's sad, but it is what it is.

When I was in school, these types of students were in their own classrooms. That's how it should be. If you're a disruptive student, you don't get to be mainstreamed.

Why didn’t you ask for a classroom switch?

We did. We even had the doctor recommendation but too many people requested one so they did not accommodate any.

That was the 2019/2020 school year, so the pandemic happened and school was closed and then virtual. 2020/2021 she did fully virtual. This is her first year back in a classroom and we switched to a private. She's much happier and doesn't sit and worry in class when a student is going to have an outburst or possibly throw something at the class.

You should have started the 504 process.

Heavens, no. PP would never tag her kid as one of the gross speds.

A 504 plan is completely different from a kid with special needs who requires special education services. Look it up.

You don't understand 504s vs IEPs either so stop talking.

Try again. My kid has had both. Idiot.

[Anonymous]

Least restrictive environment. The only 3 words that matter anymore.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There should be sped schools, the way they have AAP centers.

Least Restrictive Environment be like: do I mean nothing to you?

But what about the rights of the other students to learn?

They are still learning… it may not be at the pace you want but that isn’t specified by law. Admin and teachers have to follow the law before the needs of the the other kids. Sorry, it is what it is. You should lobby for more flexibility for students to be transferred to other programs/schools; because now, it is virtually impossible to do that without SPED parents suing the district.

+1 Hey, more opportunity to tell people about the law!!

Schools only must provide a “serviceable Chevrolet,” not a Cadillac, to afford a student a free appropriate public education (FAPE). The analogy is often associated with the seminal U.S. Supreme Court case known as Rowley, which said that public education requires only a “basic floor of opportunity,” not that schools “maximize” a child’s educational potential. The “Chevy vs. Cadillac” analogy was coined and used by lower courts after Rowley, and suggests that schools need only provide a bare minimum of services to afford a student FAPE.

Only students in special Ed are afforded FAPE (free and appropriate public education). General Ed students are NOT. A general Ed student could have a different substitute teacher every day who does nothing with the students. A general Ed student could have a substitute math teacher who know nothing about math and shows movies every day and there is no recourse. A general Ed student can be in a class that is evacuated every day and not learn a thing and there is nothing a parent can do.

You are ridiculous. Your assumption that special ed students get better teachers is incorrect. Most school systems do everything they can for the top students and give special ed the least. Did you not realize special ed kids get the same crappy substitutes?. Special ed substitutes can be anybody. My kid was abused by a substitute who knew nothing about special ed. We get the same lousy teachers. My kid with an iep had the worst math teacher in hs. All of our kids were affected.

No, no, no. Nowhere am I saying sped students get better teachers. I am saying FAPE is a special education right not a general Ed one. A special Ed student who has awful subs has the right to call fir an IEP meeting with the principal, the special Ed. Teacher, and a general Ed teacher to complain and ask for the situation to be rectified. If they are not satisfied they have procedural rights and can file a complaint and go to due process where a judge will decide. Nowhere is it written general Ed students have these rights.

General Ed parents keep posting their kids have rights too. In actuality they don’t.

Anyone who doubts this, just look at the FCPS budget. Per capita spending on SPED students absolutely dwarfs spending on non-SPED students

that is mainly due to the students in self contained classrooms. The students who are mainstreamed cost much less per pupil.

and private placements. which ironically is what PPs are calling for.

[Anonymous]

Ok. How do you know which teachers have the inclusion classes so you can request that your kid be placed with a different teacher from the start of the year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok. How do you know which teachers have the inclusion classes so you can request that your kid be placed with a different teacher from the start of the year?

Sometimes the teachers don’t even know until they get their rosters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok. How do you know which teachers have the inclusion classes so you can request that your kid be placed with a different teacher from the start of the year?

I think every teacher has to have inclusion classes, especially with the shortage of teachers. This is not a hate on 504/IEP thread, this is a hate on how FCPS fails to manage thread.

[Anonymous]

How do you expect them to manage when there is a teacher shortage? They’ve raised pay and are very competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok. How do you know which teachers have the inclusion classes so you can request that your kid be placed with a different teacher from the start of the year?

You can easily tell by who’s in the class. A lot of low kids and behavioral issues.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ok. How do you know which teachers have the inclusion classes so you can request that your kid be placed with a different teacher from the start of the year?

You can easily tell by who’s in the class. A lot of low kids and behavioral issues.

Interesting. My 2 coworkers had lots of ESOL kids and the kids failed almost every test. I had the SPED kids and my class passed all the tests and the SOLs. Everyone complimented my class and the specialists said I had the best class in the school.

So ok, go with your logic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. How do you know which teachers have the inclusion classes so you can request that your kid be placed with a different teacher from the start of the year?

You can easily tell by who’s in the class. A lot of low kids and behavioral issues.

You can also tell by if there's a SPED teacher in the classroom for a lot of the school day (and at back-to-school nights, open houses, etc.).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. How do you know which teachers have the inclusion classes so you can request that your kid be placed with a different teacher from the start of the year?

You can easily tell by who’s in the class. A lot of low kids and behavioral issues.

Interesting. My 2 coworkers had lots of ESOL kids and the kids failed almost every test. I had the SPED kids and my class passed all the tests and the SOLs. Everyone complimented my class and the specialists said I had the best class in the school.

So ok, go with your logic.

First, if you are teacher, thank you for your hard work and congratulations on doing a great job with your students! Second, you should share your methods for success with other teachers as students are having wildly different experiences across FCPS. But, also, please keep in mind that your personal experience is not a norm. Only a study by FCPS could actually answer the question of a success rate of students in SPED classes. At our school, SPED class that my kid was randomly assigned to had the absolute worst academic performance and teacher watered down curriculum compared to all other classrooms across the same grade. This is the reason this thread is 19 pages long and growing. Something has to change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. How do you know which teachers have the inclusion classes so you can request that your kid be placed with a different teacher from the start of the year?

You can easily tell by who’s in the class. A lot of low kids and behavioral issues.

Interesting. My 2 coworkers had lots of ESOL kids and the kids failed almost every test. I had the SPED kids and my class passed all the tests and the SOLs. Everyone complimented my class and the specialists said I had the best class in the school.

So ok, go with your logic.

First, if you are teacher, thank you for your hard work and congratulations on doing a great job with your students! Second, you should share your methods for success with other teachers as students are having wildly different experiences across FCPS. But, also, please keep in mind that your personal experience is not a norm. Only a study by FCPS could actually answer the question of a success rate of students in SPED classes. At our school, SPED class that my kid was randomly assigned to had the absolute worst academic performance and teacher watered down curriculum compared to all other classrooms across the same grade. This is the reason this thread is 19 pages long and growing. Something has to change.

My first principal (way, way back and not with FCPS) told me to NEVER water down the curriculum - but to make it more rigorous. So if the student can’t reach the rigorous content then at least they met the standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. How do you know which teachers have the inclusion classes so you can request that your kid be placed with a different teacher from the start of the year?

You can easily tell by who’s in the class. A lot of low kids and behavioral issues.

You can also tell by if there's a SPED teacher in the classroom for a lot of the school day (and at back-to-school nights, open houses, etc.).

I realized that my kid was assigned to the SPED class only after the back-to-school night. This was three weeks after the school year started and too late to request classroom change. I also thought that the assignment might not differ much from other classrooms (I really have no issues whatsoever with integration of SPED students), but the school year was a complete disaster compared to everything we experienced before. Whether it was overwhelmed or untrained teacher or a really difficult combination of students, the drama was never ending. At this school, and under the same circumstances, I would strongly recommend avoiding gened assignments to the SPED classroom and complete overhaul of the management of the SPED program. There has to be a reason why some schools are capable of providing thriving integration of SPED and gened students, while others end up with a big mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. How do you know which teachers have the inclusion classes so you can request that your kid be placed with a different teacher from the start of the year?

You can easily tell by who’s in the class. A lot of low kids and behavioral issues.

Interesting. My 2 coworkers had lots of ESOL kids and the kids failed almost every test. I had the SPED kids and my class passed all the tests and the SOLs. Everyone complimented my class and the specialists said I had the best class in the school.

So ok, go with your logic.

ESOL teacher here. Apples to oranges comparison. Ya’ll have far better staffing ratios, Karen parents armed with lawyers up the wazoo and your specialists are not constantly being pulled for other duties, which, by the way, have been deemed to violate civil rights the few times school districts have been legally challenged. College-educated, affluent parents make a huge difference. Stop lying to yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. How do you know which teachers have the inclusion classes so you can request that your kid be placed with a different teacher from the start of the year?

You can easily tell by who’s in the class. A lot of low kids and behavioral issues.

You can also tell by if there's a SPED teacher in the classroom for a lot of the school day (and at back-to-school nights, open houses, etc.).

I realized that my kid was assigned to the SPED class only after the back-to-school night. This was three weeks after the school year started and too late to request classroom change. I also thought that the assignment might not differ much from other classrooms (I really have no issues whatsoever with integration of SPED students), but the school year was a complete disaster compared to everything we experienced before. Whether it was overwhelmed or untrained teacher or a really difficult combination of students, the drama was never ending. At this school, and under the same circumstances, I would strongly recommend avoiding gened assignments to the SPED classroom and complete overhaul of the management of the SPED program. There has to be a reason why some schools are capable of providing thriving integration of SPED and gened students, while others end up with a big mess.

+1