Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read the story of Izzeddin Nawasra, a young Gazan murdered in a refugee camp by Israel this week.

It's truly heartbreaking.

My heart has turned to stone when it comes to any Jews, wherever located, who support the depraved Israeli government. Whenever they die, under any circumstances, I will feign sympathy, but in fact only think of Izzedin and wish they could have died earlier so perhaps his life could have been spared.

How about when Hamas kills its own Palestinians who were approaching an aid truck with food on it. They shot the boy to prevent him from reaching the aid so they could take it themselves.

Outraged about that? Or only at Jews?

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/b1bhublvt

I’m a DP, but this is a great example of something I do not get.

Why are you unable to look at tragedy and call it tragedy? What would it harm you to admit something terrible is happening?

Most people who want a ceasefire in Gaza also mourned the loss of Israeli, Thai, Bedouin and other lives on October 7. Why are Israel’s supporters incapable of seeing any other life as having equal meaning? It baffles me.

Simple,

With Hamas staying in power, there Will be future attacks like 10/7 on Israelis. They will happen over and over again. Leaving Hamas in power guarantees that.


Also leaving Hamas in power also is detrimental to the typical Gaza resident. All aid, food, construction materials go to build rockets and concrete tunnels, rather than schools and hospitals. If you speak up against Hamas, you will be murdered. Hamas is also holding the Palestinians hostage in yet another way.

No peace without Hamas gone. Even Egypt just brokered a deal that Hamas rejected. The deal was there was a permanent ceasefire if Hamas leaves Gaza and allows UN to run area. Israel would stop war and Hamas would need to release prisoners.

Hamas rejected the deal to keep fighting and keep power. They don’t give a darn about the typical Gaza resident. They are using them as human shields.

I'm sure Israel can think of a different strategy to nuetralize Hamas that doesn't require blowing up their human shields.

You have guidance for Israel--what guidance do you have for Hamas.
I've noticed this, everyone loves to critique (the new word du jour) Israel, but I don't hear lots of critiques for Hamas.

Israel has killed more innocent people than Hamas has. The number of critiques you hear are proportional.

It's a tired old chestnut that bears repeating, sadly.

Israel is at war. Yeah, it's horrible. It's horrible in the Sudan too. It was horrible in Rwanda. Yemen. Etc.

But terrorists are hard to fight. That's the nature of them. That's why (and apparently this bears repeating) you don't let them win.

+1

The Pollyannas bring a painful combination of naivete and righteousness that bears no meaningful relationship to reality.

It's not real to them. It's an ideological litmus test, or an armchair chess game. I've become more and more convinced that people with the luxury of so much remove should learn that some of their opinions can actually have a body count. They remind me of Irish Americans in the 80s, celebrating the IRA.

Yup.

Also reminiscent of the leftists in the US who cheered on Mao and Stalin.

Painfully naive dreamers and fools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read the story of Izzeddin Nawasra, a young Gazan murdered in a refugee camp by Israel this week.

It's truly heartbreaking.

My heart has turned to stone when it comes to any Jews, wherever located, who support the depraved Israeli government. Whenever they die, under any circumstances, I will feign sympathy, but in fact only think of Izzedin and wish they could have died earlier so perhaps his life could have been spared.

How about when Hamas kills its own Palestinians who were approaching an aid truck with food on it. They shot the boy to prevent him from reaching the aid so they could take it themselves.

Outraged about that? Or only at Jews?

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/b1bhublvt

I’m a DP, but this is a great example of something I do not get.

Why are you unable to look at tragedy and call it tragedy? What would it harm you to admit something terrible is happening?

Most people who want a ceasefire in Gaza also mourned the loss of Israeli, Thai, Bedouin and other lives on October 7. Why are Israel’s supporters incapable of seeing any other life as having equal meaning? It baffles me.

Simple,

With Hamas staying in power, there Will be future attacks like 10/7 on Israelis. They will happen over and over again. Leaving Hamas in power guarantees that.


Also leaving Hamas in power also is detrimental to the typical Gaza resident. All aid, food, construction materials go to build rockets and concrete tunnels, rather than schools and hospitals. If you speak up against Hamas, you will be murdered. Hamas is also holding the Palestinians hostage in yet another way.

No peace without Hamas gone. Even Egypt just brokered a deal that Hamas rejected. The deal was there was a permanent ceasefire if Hamas leaves Gaza and allows UN to run area. Israel would stop war and Hamas would need to release prisoners.

Hamas rejected the deal to keep fighting and keep power. They don’t give a darn about the typical Gaza resident. They are using them as human shields.

I'm sure Israel can think of a different strategy to nuetralize Hamas that doesn't require blowing up their human shields.

You have guidance for Israel--what guidance do you have for Hamas.
I've noticed this, everyone loves to critique (the new word du jour) Israel, but I don't hear lots of critiques for Hamas.

Israel has killed more innocent people than Hamas has. The number of critiques you hear are proportional.

It's a tired old chestnut that bears repeating, sadly.

Israel is at war. Yeah, it's horrible. It's horrible in the Sudan too. It was horrible in Rwanda. Yemen. Etc.

But terrorists are hard to fight. That's the nature of them. That's why (and apparently this bears repeating) you don't let them win.

+1

The Pollyannas bring a painful combination of naivete and righteousness that bears no meaningful relationship to reality.

It's not real to them. It's an ideological litmus test, or an armchair chess game. I've become more and more convinced that people with the luxury of so much remove should learn that some of their opinions can actually have a body count. They remind me of Irish Americans in the 80s, celebrating the IRA.

Yup.

Also reminiscent of the leftists in the US who cheered on Mao and Stalin.

Painfully naive dreamers and fools.

Yeah. Some of the latter were my older relatives. That may be one reason that I myself, even with all the remove, am so pissed off at them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone here read The Lemon Tree? It’s a book about the history of Isreal / Palestine incorporating personal histories of an Israeli and a Palestinian.

In that book, the Israeli (who is Jewish) notes she believes that
“the key to coexistence lay in what she called "the three A's": acknowledgment of what had happened to the Palestinians in 1948, apology for it, and amends.”

Why can’t this an approach for Israel to take?

What should’ve happened in 1948 should’ve been Jews taking over East Germany as their state and dealing with the reality of the times. Tons of ethnic groups practically have their own state in Eastern Europe and many on religious ground as well (see Bosnia and Serbia).

The existence of a Jewish state of Israel thousands of years ago in the Biblical era is an insane reason to take back a country. That’s like Muslim Jihadists wanting to take back Europe/Spain like centuries past or the Confederate or Mayflower sympathizers who want to go back to a time Past.

Imagine if Native Americans came back thousands of years from today wanting to take back the entire United States after centuries. Much like Palestinians , we would be confused. Immigration from religious or ethnic persecution is always allowed but taking back, displacing the current population from their homes , and reviving an ancient Biblical state is something different.

Biblical "history," as written by the ancient Hebrews -- from their own perspective, of course -- is a non-starter in determining geographical boundaries. Egypt controlled ancient Canaan before the Israelites ever did, so anyone who really wants to go back thousands of years should support returning the land to Egypt. The Israelites were just one of several primitive tribes running around the southern Levant thousands of years ago and squabbling with other tribes, and there's no particular reason why the partial descendants, after several centuries of (often) intermingling with European and other groups, of the original Israelites should have any particular claim on the land. It's like saying we can all take over Ethiopia because our ancestors from 200,000 years back, the first homo sapiens, probably started out there.

The Israeli claims to the land, based on events described in the Bible, most of which almost certainly didn't happen, are patently absurd.

I've pointed this out before, but, technically, the current Levantine Arabs (Syrians, Lebanese, Joranians, and PALESTINIANS) are ethnically closer to those Canaanites and even to the ancient Israelis than are the current modern Ashkenazi Israelis.

Gulf Arabs call their Levantine cousins “leftovers of the crusaders”.

Ashenazi Israelis are tied genetically to the Middle East. The same Levant region as Israel. They are in Europe and elsewhere because they were run out of the Levant by Arabs.

So this notion that Ashkenzi Jews don’t have a tie to Israel, that they are “colonizers” is disgusting propaganda being waged by the same people who ran Jews out of their land in the Levant.

Um, Palestinians are tied genetically to the Middle East. I'm an Ashkenazi Jew, and more of my ancestors came from Poland than from the Levant. I "have a tie" to Poland. Does that mean I can take over Poland and ethnically cleanse the locals? If not, why not? Are only Jews allowed to ethnically cleanse other people? Why?

Before the Israelites were run out of the Levant by the Romans and the Arabs, they drove out many other groups. Remember, the Israelites weren't native to the area, even if you believe the biblical account. According to the biblical account, Abraham originally came from Ur -- not the Levant. The Israelites lived on the hilltops overlooking Canaan for decades before trying to drive out the locals. They then fought with other primitive tribes for centuries, telling themselves God had instructed them to kill everyone in their path. The Moabites, Amalekites, etc. probably told themselves the same nonsense.

In terms of real history, Egypt controlled Canaan until the middle of the 12th century. This was before Judaism had even been created. By the weird logic used in giving ownership of the land to the Jews, Egyptians had a prior tie to what is now Israel. Why shouldn't Egypt just take over?

Yeah. You don’t seem well versed in facts or history or Judaism for that matter.

Jews are traced to as early as 450
BCE in Egypt. This is historical fact and not controversial. So almost 800 years before your strange “mid 1200s” figure.

Also, you seem under-informed about your Jewishness. Your Polish ancestors fled the Levant. If you had a blood test - try 23 and Me - your Ashkenazi roots will pop up. Just like many refugees of religious persecution, Jews fled the Levant to locations across the world. That doesn’t mean they are less entitled to - or colonizers in - their homeland.

Egypt controlled Canaan until the middle of the 12th century BCE (sorry -- I left out whether it was BCE or CE). That was 800 years before 450 BCE. Egypt's domination of the region was a stable time, as Egypt pacified the land. Should Egyptians just move back into the area, as "they were there first"?

As for my Jewishness, my Polish ancestors did not flee the Levant. They were never in the Levant. Some of my Jewish ancestors, at some point and for whatever reason, left the Levant and moved to central Europe, where they intermarried with Europeans who converted to Judaism. That's why I, like most of my family, look like Central Europeans (fair hair and blue eyes) rather than looking like dark-haired, dark-eyed, olive-skinned people from the eastern Mediterranean. Does this give me the right to take over Poland? I'm thinking of finding a nice house in Krakow and kicking out whoever lives there so I can move in. I'm planning to take my extended family with me so we can start a nice settlement. I have ancestral ties to Poland, so I must have the right to do this, no? After all, if I don't steal one of their houses, someone else might get it first. And since some of my Polish ancestors were originally Catholic, I guess that also gives me the right to live in the Vatican. I think I'll demand a vacation home there.

It amazes me that Jeff is fine with posts like this but deletes the one where I said, "blood and soil is bad, mmkay?"

Again, Israel has plenty of reasons to exist that are grounded in the last century. We don't need to go digging around what your ten thousand different ancestors were all doing three thousand years ago. (my math sucks, but from a genetic standpoint you are probably more related to me than you are to anyone long dead.)

There are ways to study history. To learn from history. All the ways that rely on justifying terrible behavior based on events that happened a few millennia back... events none of us have the context to even understand... are all bad. Worse, they're puppet string causes--ways to manipulate you into more terrible, xenophobic behavior.

What have I written that deserves to be deleted? It is historically accurate until I begin speculating about taking over homes in Krakow and gaining land in the Vatican, which is my honest interpretation of what the state of Israel, and particularly the illegal squatters in the West Bank, are doing right now.

The historical information I provided was partly in response to the oft-made claim that "Jews are indigenous to what is now Israel and were there first, so they get to own the land." They certainly weren't "there first." Ancient Canaan was controlled by Egypt before Judaism was even invented, and there were several other primitive tribes milling around the Levant before and during the time that the Jews lived there. Amongst these were the Pelesets, who were part of "the Mysterious Sea Peoples" and who became the Philistines, who became the Palestinians. To claim ownership of what is now Israel based on such tenuous "evidence" just doesn't make sense. In making these claims, it is Israel that is "justifying terrible behavior based on events that happened a few millennia back ... to manipulate you [or itself, in this case] into more terrible, xenophobic behavior."

From a genetic standpoint, I may indeed be more related to you than to anyone long dead, and I suspect we're both related to Palestinians through out mutual ancient Canaanite roots (I assume you are also Jewish?). Additionally, I have plenty of Polish blood. Why would any of this matter? Why does the ethnicity or religion of one group take precedence over that of another? I'd like to see everyone intermarrying and intermixing until we all lose our attachment to factionalism and any sense of group superiority or dominance. Or maybe we could do that before we all intermarry and intermix. That's where we're headed as a species (although we're getting there too slowly), and it will eventually be the antidote to ethnic strife.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a new word in the urban slang dictionary -- "Israeled." To be "Israeled" means someone takes something that is yours, shamelessly pretends that it's theirs, and plays the victim if anyone tries to hold them accountable.

When I was eight years old, an older and much larger child shamelessly stole my toy and waltzed off with it during the school lunch break. My friends and I tried to talk to her, but she blew us off, and we had to line up for class shortly thereafter. The next day, I discussed it with these same friends, and we decided to confront her. We told her to return the toy, or we would go to the principal. She SCREAMED, "If you ever call me a stinking Jew again, my mother is going to talk to the principal!" I was horrified. I had not known she was Jewish, and even if I had, I would rather have died than have said anything like that. I immediately backed down, and that manipulative kid kept my toy. I got "Israeled."

Ok, Adolf.

I just got "Israeled" again.

You can double down on your anti-semitism. Go for it. It just proves my point and undercuts yours.

Sorry, but "Israeling" happens. It's the primary defense whenever anyone points out that Israel is committing war crimes. It's obviously a deliberate strategy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a new word in the urban slang dictionary -- "Israeled." To be "Israeled" means someone takes something that is yours, shamelessly pretends that it's theirs, and plays the victim if anyone tries to hold them accountable.

When I was eight years old, an older and much larger child shamelessly stole my toy and waltzed off with it during the school lunch break. My friends and I tried to talk to her, but she blew us off, and we had to line up for class shortly thereafter. The next day, I discussed it with these same friends, and we decided to confront her. We told her to return the toy, or we would go to the principal. She SCREAMED, "If you ever call me a stinking Jew again, my mother is going to talk to the principal!" I was horrified. I had not known she was Jewish, and even if I had, I would rather have died than have said anything like that. I immediately backed down, and that manipulative kid kept my toy. I got "Israeled."

This is very childish and petty.

Very, and it's what the pro-Israel crowd is brainwashed to do. Scream "antisemite" the moment they are challenged. Now they're committing genocide, they can't understand why it doesn't work quite as well for them.

I don't know what you are seeing that doesn't work--responding with oh no I am not an anti Semitie isn't a new novel gotcha that hasn't been tries before, doesn't cancel out the truth of anti-semitism.
In any event, the post about Israeled was very childish and petty, so your response about yes this it was Jews so doesn't make any sense as a response.

Oh, I know what the poster was doing. I just chose to turn it around. Someone taught that kid to claim victimhood by screaming antisemitism when she was challenged. She intimidated my 8yo self, which allowed her to get away with stealing from me. Isn't that what Israel has done? Stolen land and then screamed "Antisemitism!" and "But the holocaust!" when challenged? This isn't about true Judaism (many Orthodox Jews are passionately anti-Zionist). It's about Zionism that leverages victimhood to get what it wants. It's the MO of the illegal settlers in the West Bank.

You were challenged because your story is not true. Not only is it not true it’s pretty dumb and ridiculous.

It was indeed true. Nothing to do with her religion, but that kid was a thief and a budding sociopath who leveraged victimhood so she could steal and bully. Kind of like Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a new word in the urban slang dictionary -- "Israeled." To be "Israeled" means someone takes something that is yours, shamelessly pretends that it's theirs, and plays the victim if anyone tries to hold them accountable.

When I was eight years old, an older and much larger child shamelessly stole my toy and waltzed off with it during the school lunch break. My friends and I tried to talk to her, but she blew us off, and we had to line up for class shortly thereafter. The next day, I discussed it with these same friends, and we decided to confront her. We told her to return the toy, or we would go to the principal. She SCREAMED, "If you ever call me a stinking Jew again, my mother is going to talk to the principal!" I was horrified. I had not known she was Jewish, and even if I had, I would rather have died than have said anything like that. I immediately backed down, and that manipulative kid kept my toy. I got "Israeled."

Ok, Adolf.

I just got "Israeled" again.

You can double down on your anti-semitism. Go for it. It just proves my point and undercuts yours.

Sorry, but "Israeling" happens. It's the primary defense whenever anyone points out that Israel is committing war crimes. It's obviously a deliberate strategy.

Why would we need such a stupid strategy when we control the weather and space lasers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a new word in the urban slang dictionary -- "Israeled." To be "Israeled" means someone takes something that is yours, shamelessly pretends that it's theirs, and plays the victim if anyone tries to hold them accountable.

When I was eight years old, an older and much larger child shamelessly stole my toy and waltzed off with it during the school lunch break. My friends and I tried to talk to her, but she blew us off, and we had to line up for class shortly thereafter. The next day, I discussed it with these same friends, and we decided to confront her. We told her to return the toy, or we would go to the principal. She SCREAMED, "If you ever call me a stinking Jew again, my mother is going to talk to the principal!" I was horrified. I had not known she was Jewish, and even if I had, I would rather have died than have said anything like that. I immediately backed down, and that manipulative kid kept my toy. I got "Israeled."

This is very childish and petty.

Very, and it's what the pro-Israel crowd is brainwashed to do. Scream "antisemite" the moment they are challenged. Now they're committing genocide, they can't understand why it doesn't work quite as well for them.

I don't know what you are seeing that doesn't work--responding with oh no I am not an anti Semitie isn't a new novel gotcha that hasn't been tries before, doesn't cancel out the truth of anti-semitism.
In any event, the post about Israeled was very childish and petty, so your response about yes this it was Jews so doesn't make any sense as a response.

Oh, I know what the poster was doing. I just chose to turn it around. Someone taught that kid to claim victimhood by screaming antisemitism when she was challenged. She intimidated my 8yo self, which allowed her to get away with stealing from me. Isn't that what Israel has done? Stolen land and then screamed "Antisemitism!" and "But the holocaust!" when challenged? This isn't about true Judaism (many Orthodox Jews are passionately anti-Zionist). It's about Zionism that leverages victimhood to get what it wants. It's the MO of the illegal settlers in the West Bank.

You were challenged because your story is not true. Not only is it not true it’s pretty dumb and ridiculous.

It was indeed true. Nothing to do with her religion, but that kid was a thief and a budding sociopath who leveraged victimhood so she could steal and bully. Kind of like Israel.

Forgot to mention that a Black person once mugged me.

I now bring them up whenever talking about Africa.

That’s ok, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a new word in the urban slang dictionary -- "Israeled." To be "Israeled" means someone takes something that is yours, shamelessly pretends that it's theirs, and plays the victim if anyone tries to hold them accountable.

When I was eight years old, an older and much larger child shamelessly stole my toy and waltzed off with it during the school lunch break. My friends and I tried to talk to her, but she blew us off, and we had to line up for class shortly thereafter. The next day, I discussed it with these same friends, and we decided to confront her. We told her to return the toy, or we would go to the principal. She SCREAMED, "If you ever call me a stinking Jew again, my mother is going to talk to the principal!" I was horrified. I had not known she was Jewish, and even if I had, I would rather have died than have said anything like that. I immediately backed down, and that manipulative kid kept my toy. I got "Israeled."

This is very childish and petty.

Very, and it's what the pro-Israel crowd is brainwashed to do. Scream "antisemite" the moment they are challenged. Now they're committing genocide, they can't understand why it doesn't work quite as well for them.

I don't know what you are seeing that doesn't work--responding with oh no I am not an anti Semitie isn't a new novel gotcha that hasn't been tries before, doesn't cancel out the truth of anti-semitism.
In any event, the post about Israeled was very childish and petty, so your response about yes this it was Jews so doesn't make any sense as a response.

Oh, I know what the poster was doing. I just chose to turn it around. Someone taught that kid to claim victimhood by screaming antisemitism when she was challenged. She intimidated my 8yo self, which allowed her to get away with stealing from me. Isn't that what Israel has done? Stolen land and then screamed "Antisemitism!" and "But the holocaust!" when challenged? This isn't about true Judaism (many Orthodox Jews are passionately anti-Zionist). It's about Zionism that leverages victimhood to get what it wants. It's the MO of the illegal settlers in the West Bank.

You were challenged because your story is not true. Not only is it not true it’s pretty dumb and ridiculous.

It was indeed true. Nothing to do with her religion, but that kid was a thief and a budding sociopath who leveraged victimhood so she could steal and bully. Kind of like Israel.

Dude, just stop it. No one believes your idiotic story. You are a victim of your own imagination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a new word in the urban slang dictionary -- "Israeled." To be "Israeled" means someone takes something that is yours, shamelessly pretends that it's theirs, and plays the victim if anyone tries to hold them accountable.

When I was eight years old, an older and much larger child shamelessly stole my toy and waltzed off with it during the school lunch break. My friends and I tried to talk to her, but she blew us off, and we had to line up for class shortly thereafter. The next day, I discussed it with these same friends, and we decided to confront her. We told her to return the toy, or we would go to the principal. She SCREAMED, "If you ever call me a stinking Jew again, my mother is going to talk to the principal!" I was horrified. I had not known she was Jewish, and even if I had, I would rather have died than have said anything like that. I immediately backed down, and that manipulative kid kept my toy. I got "Israeled."

This is very childish and petty.

Very, and it's what the pro-Israel crowd is brainwashed to do. Scream "antisemite" the moment they are challenged. Now they're committing genocide, they can't understand why it doesn't work quite as well for them.

I don't know what you are seeing that doesn't work--responding with oh no I am not an anti Semitie isn't a new novel gotcha that hasn't been tries before, doesn't cancel out the truth of anti-semitism.
In any event, the post about Israeled was very childish and petty, so your response about yes this it was Jews so doesn't make any sense as a response.

Oh, I know what the poster was doing. I just chose to turn it around. Someone taught that kid to claim victimhood by screaming antisemitism when she was challenged. She intimidated my 8yo self, which allowed her to get away with stealing from me. Isn't that what Israel has done? Stolen land and then screamed "Antisemitism!" and "But the holocaust!" when challenged? This isn't about true Judaism (many Orthodox Jews are passionately anti-Zionist). It's about Zionism that leverages victimhood to get what it wants. It's the MO of the illegal settlers in the West Bank.

You were challenged because your story is not true. Not only is it not true it’s pretty dumb and ridiculous.

It was indeed true. Nothing to do with her religion, but that kid was a thief and a budding sociopath who leveraged victimhood so she could steal and bully. Kind of like Israel.

Forgot to mention that a Black person once mugged me.

I now bring them up whenever talking about Africa.

That’s ok, right?

Did the Black person claim they had the right to mug you because you are personally guilty of systemic racism? That is the analogy here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a new word in the urban slang dictionary -- "Israeled." To be "Israeled" means someone takes something that is yours, shamelessly pretends that it's theirs, and plays the victim if anyone tries to hold them accountable.

When I was eight years old, an older and much larger child shamelessly stole my toy and waltzed off with it during the school lunch break. My friends and I tried to talk to her, but she blew us off, and we had to line up for class shortly thereafter. The next day, I discussed it with these same friends, and we decided to confront her. We told her to return the toy, or we would go to the principal. She SCREAMED, "If you ever call me a stinking Jew again, my mother is going to talk to the principal!" I was horrified. I had not known she was Jewish, and even if I had, I would rather have died than have said anything like that. I immediately backed down, and that manipulative kid kept my toy. I got "Israeled."

This is very childish and petty.

Very, and it's what the pro-Israel crowd is brainwashed to do. Scream "antisemite" the moment they are challenged. Now they're committing genocide, they can't understand why it doesn't work quite as well for them.

I don't know what you are seeing that doesn't work--responding with oh no I am not an anti Semitie isn't a new novel gotcha that hasn't been tries before, doesn't cancel out the truth of anti-semitism.
In any event, the post about Israeled was very childish and petty, so your response about yes this it was Jews so doesn't make any sense as a response.

Oh, I know what the poster was doing. I just chose to turn it around. Someone taught that kid to claim victimhood by screaming antisemitism when she was challenged. She intimidated my 8yo self, which allowed her to get away with stealing from me. Isn't that what Israel has done? Stolen land and then screamed "Antisemitism!" and "But the holocaust!" when challenged? This isn't about true Judaism (many Orthodox Jews are passionately anti-Zionist). It's about Zionism that leverages victimhood to get what it wants. It's the MO of the illegal settlers in the West Bank.

You were challenged because your story is not true. Not only is it not true it’s pretty dumb and ridiculous.

It was indeed true. Nothing to do with her religion, but that kid was a thief and a budding sociopath who leveraged victimhood so she could steal and bully. Kind of like Israel.

Dude, just stop it. No one believes your idiotic story. You are a victim of your own imagination.

So you were there when it didn't happen? K

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a new word in the urban slang dictionary -- "Israeled." To be "Israeled" means someone takes something that is yours, shamelessly pretends that it's theirs, and plays the victim if anyone tries to hold them accountable.

When I was eight years old, an older and much larger child shamelessly stole my toy and waltzed off with it during the school lunch break. My friends and I tried to talk to her, but she blew us off, and we had to line up for class shortly thereafter. The next day, I discussed it with these same friends, and we decided to confront her. We told her to return the toy, or we would go to the principal. She SCREAMED, "If you ever call me a stinking Jew again, my mother is going to talk to the principal!" I was horrified. I had not known she was Jewish, and even if I had, I would rather have died than have said anything like that. I immediately backed down, and that manipulative kid kept my toy. I got "Israeled."

This is very childish and petty.

Very, and it's what the pro-Israel crowd is brainwashed to do. Scream "antisemite" the moment they are challenged. Now they're committing genocide, they can't understand why it doesn't work quite as well for them.

I don't know what you are seeing that doesn't work--responding with oh no I am not an anti Semitie isn't a new novel gotcha that hasn't been tries before, doesn't cancel out the truth of anti-semitism.
In any event, the post about Israeled was very childish and petty, so your response about yes this it was Jews so doesn't make any sense as a response.

Oh, I know what the poster was doing. I just chose to turn it around. Someone taught that kid to claim victimhood by screaming antisemitism when she was challenged. She intimidated my 8yo self, which allowed her to get away with stealing from me. Isn't that what Israel has done? Stolen land and then screamed "Antisemitism!" and "But the holocaust!" when challenged? This isn't about true Judaism (many Orthodox Jews are passionately anti-Zionist). It's about Zionism that leverages victimhood to get what it wants. It's the MO of the illegal settlers in the West Bank.

You were challenged because your story is not true. Not only is it not true it’s pretty dumb and ridiculous.

It was indeed true. Nothing to do with her religion, but that kid was a thief and a budding sociopath who leveraged victimhood so she could steal and bully. Kind of like Israel.

Dude, just stop it. No one believes your idiotic story. You are a victim of your own imagination.

So you were there when it didn't happen? K

I was there when you made it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Has anyone here read The Lemon Tree? It’s a book about the history of Isreal / Palestine incorporating personal histories of an Israeli and a Palestinian.

In that book, the Israeli (who is Jewish) notes she believes that
“the key to coexistence lay in what she called "the three A's": acknowledgment of what had happened to the Palestinians in 1948, apology for it, and amends.”

Why can’t this an approach for Israel to take?

What should’ve happened in 1948 should’ve been Jews taking over East Germany as their state and dealing with the reality of the times. Tons of ethnic groups practically have their own state in Eastern Europe and many on religious ground as well (see Bosnia and Serbia).

The existence of a Jewish state of Israel thousands of years ago in the Biblical era is an insane reason to take back a country. That’s like Muslim Jihadists wanting to take back Europe/Spain like centuries past or the Confederate or Mayflower sympathizers who want to go back to a time Past.

Imagine if Native Americans came back thousands of years from today wanting to take back the entire United States after centuries. Much like Palestinians , we would be confused. Immigration from religious or ethnic persecution is always allowed but taking back, displacing the current population from their homes , and reviving an ancient Biblical state is something different.

Biblical "history," as written by the ancient Hebrews -- from their own perspective, of course -- is a non-starter in determining geographical boundaries. Egypt controlled ancient Canaan before the Israelites ever did, so anyone who really wants to go back thousands of years should support returning the land to Egypt. The Israelites were just one of several primitive tribes running around the southern Levant thousands of years ago and squabbling with other tribes, and there's no particular reason why the partial descendants, after several centuries of (often) intermingling with European and other groups, of the original Israelites should have any particular claim on the land. It's like saying we can all take over Ethiopia because our ancestors from 200,000 years back, the first homo sapiens, probably started out there.

The Israeli claims to the land, based on events described in the Bible, most of which almost certainly didn't happen, are patently absurd.

I've pointed this out before, but, technically, the current Levantine Arabs (Syrians, Lebanese, Joranians, and PALESTINIANS) are ethnically closer to those Canaanites and even to the ancient Israelis than are the current modern Ashkenazi Israelis.

Gulf Arabs call their Levantine cousins “leftovers of the crusaders”.

Ashenazi Israelis are tied genetically to the Middle East. The same Levant region as Israel. They are in Europe and elsewhere because they were run out of the Levant by Arabs.

So this notion that Ashkenzi Jews don’t have a tie to Israel, that they are “colonizers” is disgusting propaganda being waged by the same people who ran Jews out of their land in the Levant.

Um, Palestinians are tied genetically to the Middle East. I'm an Ashkenazi Jew, and more of my ancestors came from Poland than from the Levant. I "have a tie" to Poland. Does that mean I can take over Poland and ethnically cleanse the locals? If not, why not? Are only Jews allowed to ethnically cleanse other people? Why?

Before the Israelites were run out of the Levant by the Romans and the Arabs, they drove out many other groups. Remember, the Israelites weren't native to the area, even if you believe the biblical account. According to the biblical account, Abraham originally came from Ur -- not the Levant. The Israelites lived on the hilltops overlooking Canaan for decades before trying to drive out the locals. They then fought with other primitive tribes for centuries, telling themselves God had instructed them to kill everyone in their path. The Moabites, Amalekites, etc. probably told themselves the same nonsense.

In terms of real history, Egypt controlled Canaan until the middle of the 12th century. This was before Judaism had even been created. By the weird logic used in giving ownership of the land to the Jews, Egyptians had a prior tie to what is now Israel. Why shouldn't Egypt just take over?

Yeah. You don’t seem well versed in facts or history or Judaism for that matter.

Jews are traced to as early as 450
BCE in Egypt. This is historical fact and not controversial. So almost 800 years before your strange “mid 1200s” figure.

Also, you seem under-informed about your Jewishness. Your Polish ancestors fled the Levant. If you had a blood test - try 23 and Me - your Ashkenazi roots will pop up. Just like many refugees of religious persecution, Jews fled the Levant to locations across the world. That doesn’t mean they are less entitled to - or colonizers in - their homeland.

Egypt controlled Canaan until the middle of the 12th century BCE (sorry -- I left out whether it was BCE or CE). That was 800 years before 450 BCE. Egypt's domination of the region was a stable time, as Egypt pacified the land. Should Egyptians just move back into the area, as "they were there first"?

As for my Jewishness, my Polish ancestors did not flee the Levant. They were never in the Levant. Some of my Jewish ancestors, at some point and for whatever reason, left the Levant and moved to central Europe, where they intermarried with Europeans who converted to Judaism. That's why I, like most of my family, look like Central Europeans (fair hair and blue eyes) rather than looking like dark-haired, dark-eyed, olive-skinned people from the eastern Mediterranean. Does this give me the right to take over Poland? I'm thinking of finding a nice house in Krakow and kicking out whoever lives there so I can move in. I'm planning to take my extended family with me so we can start a nice settlement. I have ancestral ties to Poland, so I must have the right to do this, no? After all, if I don't steal one of their houses, someone else might get it first. And since some of my Polish ancestors were originally Catholic, I guess that also gives me the right to live in the Vatican. I think I'll demand a vacation home there.

It amazes me that Jeff is fine with posts like this but deletes the one where I said, "blood and soil is bad, mmkay?"

Again, Israel has plenty of reasons to exist that are grounded in the last century. We don't need to go digging around what your ten thousand different ancestors were all doing three thousand years ago. (my math sucks, but from a genetic standpoint you are probably more related to me than you are to anyone long dead.)

There are ways to study history. To learn from history. All the ways that rely on justifying terrible behavior based on events that happened a few millennia back... events none of us have the context to even understand... are all bad. Worse, they're puppet string causes--ways to manipulate you into more terrible, xenophobic behavior.

What have I written that deserves to be deleted? It is historically accurate until I begin speculating about taking over homes in Krakow and gaining land in the Vatican, which is my honest interpretation of what the state of Israel, and particularly the illegal squatters in the West Bank, are doing right now.

The historical information I provided was partly in response to the oft-made claim that "Jews are indigenous to what is now Israel and were there first, so they get to own the land." They certainly weren't "there first." Ancient Canaan was controlled by Egypt before Judaism was even invented, and there were several other primitive tribes milling around the Levant before and during the time that the Jews lived there. Amongst these were the Pelesets, who were part of "the Mysterious Sea Peoples" and who became the Philistines, who became the Palestinians. To claim ownership of what is now Israel based on such tenuous "evidence" just doesn't make sense. In making these claims, it is Israel that is "justifying terrible behavior based on events that happened a few millennia back ... to manipulate you [or itself, in this case] into more terrible, xenophobic behavior."

From a genetic standpoint, I may indeed be more related to you than to anyone long dead, and I suspect we're both related to Palestinians through out mutual ancient Canaanite roots (I assume you are also Jewish?). Additionally, I have plenty of Polish blood. Why would any of this matter? Why does the ethnicity or religion of one group take precedence over that of another? I'd like to see everyone intermarrying and intermixing until we all lose our attachment to factionalism and any sense of group superiority or dominance. Or maybe we could do that before we all intermarry and intermix. That's where we're headed as a species (although we're getting there too slowly), and it will eventually be the antidote to ethnic strife.

I don't think what you said needs to be deleted. I think you need to realize there are a whole bunch of people out there who aren't just living in a theoretical game about this stuff. I suspect we will never get to that mythical place you imagine where we don't care about this stuff because we humans never have. We're tribal. We always want something those folks over the hill have, or think our HOA is better than their HOA, or sports team, or country, or whatever.

Israel and Palestine are in an impossible situation. I don't know how it ends. I'm grateful not to be there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a new word in the urban slang dictionary -- "Israeled." To be "Israeled" means someone takes something that is yours, shamelessly pretends that it's theirs, and plays the victim if anyone tries to hold them accountable.

When I was eight years old, an older and much larger child shamelessly stole my toy and waltzed off with it during the school lunch break. My friends and I tried to talk to her, but she blew us off, and we had to line up for class shortly thereafter. The next day, I discussed it with these same friends, and we decided to confront her. We told her to return the toy, or we would go to the principal. She SCREAMED, "If you ever call me a stinking Jew again, my mother is going to talk to the principal!" I was horrified. I had not known she was Jewish, and even if I had, I would rather have died than have said anything like that. I immediately backed down, and that manipulative kid kept my toy. I got "Israeled."

This is very childish and petty.

Very, and it's what the pro-Israel crowd is brainwashed to do. Scream "antisemite" the moment they are challenged. Now they're committing genocide, they can't understand why it doesn't work quite as well for them.

I don't know what you are seeing that doesn't work--responding with oh no I am not an anti Semitie isn't a new novel gotcha that hasn't been tries before, doesn't cancel out the truth of anti-semitism.
In any event, the post about Israeled was very childish and petty, so your response about yes this it was Jews so doesn't make any sense as a response.

Oh, I know what the poster was doing. I just chose to turn it around. Someone taught that kid to claim victimhood by screaming antisemitism when she was challenged. She intimidated my 8yo self, which allowed her to get away with stealing from me. Isn't that what Israel has done? Stolen land and then screamed "Antisemitism!" and "But the holocaust!" when challenged? This isn't about true Judaism (many Orthodox Jews are passionately anti-Zionist). It's about Zionism that leverages victimhood to get what it wants. It's the MO of the illegal settlers in the West Bank.

You were challenged because your story is not true. Not only is it not true it’s pretty dumb and ridiculous.

It was indeed true. Nothing to do with her religion, but that kid was a thief and a budding sociopath who leveraged victimhood so she could steal and bully. Kind of like Israel.

Dude, just stop it. No one believes your idiotic story. You are a victim of your own imagination.

So you were there when it didn't happen? K

I was there when you made it up.

So now you're omniscient. Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a new word in the urban slang dictionary -- "Israeled." To be "Israeled" means someone takes something that is yours, shamelessly pretends that it's theirs, and plays the victim if anyone tries to hold them accountable.

When I was eight years old, an older and much larger child shamelessly stole my toy and waltzed off with it during the school lunch break. My friends and I tried to talk to her, but she blew us off, and we had to line up for class shortly thereafter. The next day, I discussed it with these same friends, and we decided to confront her. We told her to return the toy, or we would go to the principal. She SCREAMED, "If you ever call me a stinking Jew again, my mother is going to talk to the principal!" I was horrified. I had not known she was Jewish, and even if I had, I would rather have died than have said anything like that. I immediately backed down, and that manipulative kid kept my toy. I got "Israeled."

This is very childish and petty.

Very, and it's what the pro-Israel crowd is brainwashed to do. Scream "antisemite" the moment they are challenged. Now they're committing genocide, they can't understand why it doesn't work quite as well for them.

I don't know what you are seeing that doesn't work--responding with oh no I am not an anti Semitie isn't a new novel gotcha that hasn't been tries before, doesn't cancel out the truth of anti-semitism.
In any event, the post about Israeled was very childish and petty, so your response about yes this it was Jews so doesn't make any sense as a response.

Oh, I know what the poster was doing. I just chose to turn it around. Someone taught that kid to claim victimhood by screaming antisemitism when she was challenged. She intimidated my 8yo self, which allowed her to get away with stealing from me. Isn't that what Israel has done? Stolen land and then screamed "Antisemitism!" and "But the holocaust!" when challenged? This isn't about true Judaism (many Orthodox Jews are passionately anti-Zionist). It's about Zionism that leverages victimhood to get what it wants. It's the MO of the illegal settlers in the West Bank.

Why would you turn it around, and then even admit to doing so? You just told on yourself, you are projecting and not even cloaking it.
Remember all of this I'd real life and not a game of soliphistic tricks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a new word in the urban slang dictionary -- "Israeled." To be "Israeled" means someone takes something that is yours, shamelessly pretends that it's theirs, and plays the victim if anyone tries to hold them accountable.

When I was eight years old, an older and much larger child shamelessly stole my toy and waltzed off with it during the school lunch break. My friends and I tried to talk to her, but she blew us off, and we had to line up for class shortly thereafter. The next day, I discussed it with these same friends, and we decided to confront her. We told her to return the toy, or we would go to the principal. She SCREAMED, "If you ever call me a stinking Jew again, my mother is going to talk to the principal!" I was horrified. I had not known she was Jewish, and even if I had, I would rather have died than have said anything like that. I immediately backed down, and that manipulative kid kept my toy. I got "Israeled."

This is very childish and petty.

Very, and it's what the pro-Israel crowd is brainwashed to do. Scream "antisemite" the moment they are challenged. Now they're committing genocide, they can't understand why it doesn't work quite as well for them.

I don't know what you are seeing that doesn't work--responding with oh no I am not an anti Semitie isn't a new novel gotcha that hasn't been tries before, doesn't cancel out the truth of anti-semitism.
In any event, the post about Israeled was very childish and petty, so your response about yes this it was Jews so doesn't make any sense as a response.

Oh, I know what the poster was doing. I just chose to turn it around. Someone taught that kid to claim victimhood by screaming antisemitism when she was challenged. She intimidated my 8yo self, which allowed her to get away with stealing from me. Isn't that what Israel has done? Stolen land and then screamed "Antisemitism!" and "But the holocaust!" when challenged? This isn't about true Judaism (many Orthodox Jews are passionately anti-Zionist). It's about Zionism that leverages victimhood to get what it wants. It's the MO of the illegal settlers in the West Bank.

You were challenged because your story is not true. Not only is it not true it’s pretty dumb and ridiculous.

It was indeed true. Nothing to do with her religion, but that kid was a thief and a budding sociopath who leveraged victimhood so she could steal and bully. Kind of like Israel.

Dude, just stop it. No one believes your idiotic story. You are a victim of your own imagination.

So you were there when it didn't happen? K

I was there when you made it up.

So now you're omniscient. Wow.

This is a game to you. You just have comebacks for everything. Every response boils down to I know you are but what am I. Name-calling. You do not care who lives or dies over there. To make things fun, you could argue for the Israel for a few posts and that wouldn't make you any less so sincere then you are now.