Great colleges with fewer intense strivers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe we need to try to put some behaviors on the table to make people not see a racialized version of this type of student. We certainly know students who try hard.

Maybe it’s students who …
Can’t just be a member of a high school club, have to be the president.
Are more interested in self-beneficial relationships with teachers than fellow students.
Need an A more than they need to learn the subject material, hence constantly pester teachers for what’s on the test, how to get an A, extra credit, etc.
(Just a couple thoughts.)

The reality is if the student need to do the above to stay ahead, the student is not going to a T20. And you won't see this type of students in a top school.
If these are the strivers you want to avoid, then you definitely should go to a very top college.

OMG. No. The "very top" colleges are almost entirely full of these kids, and a good handful of cheaters too. Also some genuine people, but a whole lot of the rest.

There are so many cheaters amongst the top students. So many parents who think it is fine if their kids cheat as long as they don't get caught or think that having access to previous years tests and/or test banks (when other students have not seen previous tests) is not considered cheating. My kids experience is that it tends to be white students whose parents were in fraternities/ sororities (so had the experience of the sorority / fraternity having tests from previous years) or students with immigrant parents from India or China. Many (most?) of these kids could get A's if they studied but by not having to study for every test and spreading themselves thin they can concentrate on classes where they don't have access to previous tests. They also get better recommendations because the teacher thinks they are getting difficult questions correct without ever having seen the questions.

Based on my kids' experience from a top public, half the kids who went to T20 were really the brilliant kids but the other half were smart cheaters who worked the system.

[Anonymous]

I would look away from LACs. All the posts recently show the parents really care about how they look and want it to be Harvard so badly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe we need to try to put some behaviors on the table to make people not see a racialized version of this type of student. We certainly know students who try hard.

Maybe it’s students who …
Can’t just be a member of a high school club, have to be the president.
Are more interested in self-beneficial relationships with teachers than fellow students.
Need an A more than they need to learn the subject material, hence constantly pester teachers for what’s on the test, how to get an A, extra credit, etc.
(Just a couple thoughts.)

The reality is if the student need to do the above to stay ahead, the student is not going to a T20. And you won't see this type of students in a top school.
If these are the strivers you want to avoid, then you definitely should go to a very top college.

OMG. No. The "very top" colleges are almost entirely full of these kids, and a good handful of cheaters too. Also some genuine people, but a whole lot of the rest.

There are so many cheaters amongst the top students. So many parents who think it is fine if their kids cheat as long as they don't get caught or think that having access to previous years tests and/or test banks (when other students have not seen previous tests) is not considered cheating. My kids experience is that it tends to be white students whose parents were in fraternities/ sororities (so had the experience of the sorority / fraternity having tests from previous years) or students with immigrant parents from India or China. Many (most?) of these kids could get A's if they studied but by not having to study for every test and spreading themselves thin they can concentrate on classes where they don't have access to previous tests. They also get better recommendations because the teacher thinks they are getting difficult questions correct without ever having seen the questions.

Based on my kids' experience from a top public, half the kids who went to T20 were really the brilliant kids but the other half were smart cheaters who worked the system.

If adults behave this way—winning at all costs—what message does that send to young people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would look away from LACs. All the posts recently show the parents really care about how they look and want it to be Harvard so badly.

Not our experience at all. In fact a high number at my kids LAC applied ED because it was their top choice. My kid did not want Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian-American and transplanted Southerner here. The Southern flagships are seen as “havens” of sorts for those fleeing the “Asian” striver schools but the flagships are changing because the South is drawing a lot of immigrants. Visiting those colleges with my kid was eye-opening. Just google the clubs and activities section of the university websites and see how many different cultural affinity groups there are.

I’m confused why parents here believe they can avoid Asian people by sending them to state flagships. Asian students dominate the majors that make money; particularly the stem subjects are filled with Asian students after the freshman filter.

Alabama is less than 2% Asian. That’s why Roll Tide moms love it. Their kid gets to be in an “honors” college with no strivers.

My kid goes to Stony Brook which is more than half Asian. Great school, and it's increasingly getting harder to get in, but I wouldn't call any of my DS's Asian classmate as tiger kids. They're good students who want a good college education without graduating with massive debt. Like my kid. (I guess if you were an obnoxious striver, state school isn't good enough so maybe it's self-selecting but there are plenty of UMC white students like that.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian-American and transplanted Southerner here. The Southern flagships are seen as “havens” of sorts for those fleeing the “Asian” striver schools but the flagships are changing because the South is drawing a lot of immigrants. Visiting those colleges with my kid was eye-opening. Just google the clubs and activities section of the university websites and see how many different cultural affinity groups there are.

I’m confused why parents here believe they can avoid Asian people by sending them to state flagships. Asian students dominate the majors that make money; particularly the stem subjects are filled with Asian students after the freshman filter.

Alabama is less than 2% Asian. That’s why Roll Tide moms love it. Their kid gets to be in an “honors” college with no strivers.

My kid goes to Stony Brook which is more than half Asian. Great school, and it's increasingly getting harder to get in, but I wouldn't call any of my DS's Asian classmate as tiger kids. They're good students who want a good college education without graduating with massive debt. Like my kid. (I guess if you were an obnoxious striver, state school isn't good enough so maybe it's self-selecting but there are plenty of UMC white students like that.)

Come on. Lots of Stuy kids at Stony Brook.
If your DS doesn't feel it, he himself might be a tiger kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian-American and transplanted Southerner here. The Southern flagships are seen as “havens” of sorts for those fleeing the “Asian” striver schools but the flagships are changing because the South is drawing a lot of immigrants. Visiting those colleges with my kid was eye-opening. Just google the clubs and activities section of the university websites and see how many different cultural affinity groups there are.

I’m confused why parents here believe they can avoid Asian people by sending them to state flagships. Asian students dominate the majors that make money; particularly the stem subjects are filled with Asian students after the freshman filter.

Alabama is less than 2% Asian. That’s why Roll Tide moms love it. Their kid gets to be in an “honors” college with no strivers.

My kid goes to Stony Brook which is more than half Asian. Great school, and it's increasingly getting harder to get in, but I wouldn't call any of my DS's Asian classmate as tiger kids. They're good students who want a good college education without graduating with massive debt. Like my kid. (I guess if you were an obnoxious striver, state school isn't good enough so maybe it's self-selecting but there are plenty of UMC white students like that.)

Come on. Lots of Stuy kids at Stony Brook.
If your DS doesn't feel it, he himself might be a tiger kid.

Agreed. If you're at a school like that and no one else is a striver, then perhaps you're the striver. I'm pretty sure Stony Brook has a pretty big striver population.

[Anonymous]

I always associate the word “striver” for someone who wants to improve where they are in life. That was supposed to be the American dream. Now it’s become a negative thing associated with people seen and hoarding and stealing opportunities. There’s plenty to go around when it comes to accessing colleges and degree programs, especially if you’re UMC-UC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I always associate the word “striver” for someone who wants to improve where they are in life. That was supposed to be the American dream. Now it’s become a negative thing associated with people seen and hoarding and stealing opportunities. There’s plenty to go around when it comes to accessing colleges and degree programs, especially if you’re UMC-UC.

In my mind, there's an element of doing the striving in order to be very financially successful for the sake of gaining/keeping wealth or position, with the $$$/prestige reward being the goal and not just a nice byproduct of the success.

[Anonymous]

For intellectually rigorous, but also collaborative and kind student community, look at these colleges:

Carleton
Tufts
Rice
WashU
Harvey Mudd

There are obviously others too, but these stand out for building a very intentional community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For intellectually rigorous, but also collaborative and kind student community, look at these colleges:

Carleton
Tufts
Rice
WashU
Harvey Mudd

There are obviously others too, but these stand out for building a very intentional community.

thank you! my son is looking for this too and so rice and tufts are high on his list. I also have been reading this thread:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1306928.page

[Anonymous]

Wesleyan. Smart kids, but not the type who obsess about grades and med school admissions.

[Anonymous]

Most state flagships are large enough and diverse enough for kids who want ti avoid the striders cohort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wesleyan. Smart kids, but not the type who obsess about grades and med school admissions.

Agreed. I would say, Wesleyan and Tufts both give me smart kids who are not cutthroat vibes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For intellectually rigorous, but also collaborative and kind student community, look at these colleges:

Carleton
Tufts
Rice
WashU
Harvey Mudd

There are obviously others too, but these stand out for building a very intentional community.

thank you! my son is looking for this too and so rice and tufts are high on his list. I also have been reading this thread:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1306928.page

I missed that thread over Christmas, thanks for sharing!