Is the snotty teen/tween behavior really starting as early as 3rd and 4th grade now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am an elem. school teacher and also have a 4th grade girl, and I have noticed the same thing. If I see her friends treating their parents or other kids that way - we have a conversation on the way home about how it is not acceptable. When her tone of voice shifts I shut it down immediately. Sometimes I think they are oblivious and don't realize how they are being perceived. Just mimicking tone from Youtube or other shows. Sometimes they are doing it for attention from their friends.

OP here. I really appreciate this perspective as I'm sure you encounter a lot of kids. I agree with you that I think the kids are often being oblivious. I wonder about what they think is happening in these interactions with adults where they are being demanding and dismissive. Do they think I'm privately thinking "wow, this kid is cooler than me, I better watch out"? I don't think they realize how much it lowers them in my eyes. If they did, I don't think they'd do it.

[Anonymous]

I have teens. I think it’s uncommon for kids to be rude to *other* kids’ parents, ever, let alone at 9. Kids save their rudeness for their nearest and dearest. I would be very wary of your child spending a lot of time with those kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s because it’s girls. Boys aren’t like this.

Absolutely not true. When my son was that age, we had a party at home and one of the guests kept trying to go upstairs even when we said the upstairs was off limits. He pushed past and said “I don’t care”

FWIW my DS is a very polite and kind kid at home and in public (people tell me this all the time), but not all of them are

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:4th grade has always been the turning point, especially for girls. I remember back to my own childhood in a fairly affluent area (but a much, much smaller town and metro area than the DC area) there was a big change, looking back, between 3rd and 4th. 4th is when the “cool” groups started forming. Not saying all those kids were like that or that there weren’t obnoxious kids outside of the cool groups, but yeah … that’s when it definitely started.

I agree with this. We have girls who are older now but 3rf thru 7th grade is my absolute least age of girls. The divide between their perceived maturity becomes so pronounced and cliques and hierarchy start to form. Lots of parents don’t seem to call them out which feeds the poor behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yep, I have seen this. I think it's a few things:

1) Kids with older siblings. This is probably the biggest.
2) Kids watching a lot of shows aimed at slightly older tweens. I'm thinking of the Nickelodeon stuff that's on Netflix.
3) Kids whose parents ignore it or even think it's cute. DD has a couple of friends like this. The parents are lovely but clueless and trying to be their kids' friend.

Its this.
My 8 year old boy has a friend who always pulls this stuff. Whining at me about wanting to play Fortnite which we don't have, then mocking my son for it. Insisting on sneaking around in my bedroom when I told him it's off limits. Whining for candy. Basically acting like he hates being at our house. I don't want him over anymore.
But the mom is a total doll. Sweetest lady ever. And she's like that with her son too. Never ever would raise her voice or say a harsh word.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an elem. school teacher and also have a 4th grade girl, and I have noticed the same thing. If I see her friends treating their parents or other kids that way - we have a conversation on the way home about how it is not acceptable. When her tone of voice shifts I shut it down immediately. Sometimes I think they are oblivious and don't realize how they are being perceived. Just mimicking tone from Youtube or other shows. Sometimes they are doing it for attention from their friends.

OP here. I really appreciate this perspective as I'm sure you encounter a lot of kids. I agree with you that I think the kids are often being oblivious. I wonder about what they think is happening in these interactions with adults where they are being demanding and dismissive. Do they think I'm privately thinking "wow, this kid is cooler than me, I better watch out"? I don't think they realize how much it lowers them in my eyes. If they did, I don't think they'd do it.

Teacher poster here. When I have stopped class for attitude/tone/snarky comments, I usually flat out ask - did you intend for it to come out that way? (Whiny, Bratty, Sarcastic, etc) 9/10 the answer is no. They honestly have no idea that their tone is disrespectful. From overhearing some of my daughters youtube videos - a lot of the skits show teens speaking to each other that way and I think they assume that's what is done. (Think us reading the babysitters club at 8 years old and assuming all teen age girls were laying around in their friends room eating candy and running a business, it seemed like the epitome of cool!) I also stop those shows immediately but I know I am not always around when they are watching. I think at this age (8,9,10) it is more about trying out what they have seen or heard and think is "normal" or "funny" and less about blatant disrespect. But unless we stop them in the moment they assume it is ok.

I have also heard playground comments that are very "mean girl-esque" that we try to stop right away. Those I am more surprised about when parents ignore them at birthday parties etc. And we try to distance ourselves from that when possible.

I will stop her friends in my own house and say something like "Woah, that didnt sound very kind" but it is a fine line right now being the teachers kid and having her lose friendships because I am too "mean."

[Anonymous]

I’m seeing early stages of this with second graders (on the cusp of turning 8). As much as I want to give little kids grace to learn what is and is not acceptable behavior, as a mom, I feel it is my responsibility to not put my kids in scenarios where they are exposed to this behavior that may eventually turn into bullying.

I blame the parents and also don’t blame them at the same time. Teaching kids norms of social behavior, the importance of kindness, and consistently correcting them is a lot of work. And the parents probably don’t even realize that their kids have developed these “snobby” behaviors until it’s too late because in the past, this was not normal behavior at this age.

[Anonymous]

I really don't think this is new. It's just a matter of the circles you moved in growing up and what parents tolerated. After all - it's not like songs and TV shows in the '80s and '90s showed teens behaving as paragons of respect. We grew up with Ferris Bueller!

I also don't think it was on OP to correct other people's kids at a party. Make a mental note, and those kids don't come to your house again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an elem. school teacher and also have a 4th grade girl, and I have noticed the same thing. If I see her friends treating their parents or other kids that way - we have a conversation on the way home about how it is not acceptable. When her tone of voice shifts I shut it down immediately. Sometimes I think they are oblivious and don't realize how they are being perceived. Just mimicking tone from Youtube or other shows. Sometimes they are doing it for attention from their friends.

OP here. I really appreciate this perspective as I'm sure you encounter a lot of kids. I agree with you that I think the kids are often being oblivious. I wonder about what they think is happening in these interactions with adults where they are being demanding and dismissive. Do they think I'm privately thinking "wow, this kid is cooler than me, I better watch out"? I don't think they realize how much it lowers them in my eyes. If they did, I don't think they'd do it.

Teacher poster here. When I have stopped class for attitude/tone/snarky comments, I usually flat out ask - did you intend for it to come out that way? (Whiny, Bratty, Sarcastic, etc) 9/10 the answer is no. They honestly have no idea that their tone is disrespectful. From overhearing some of my daughters youtube videos - a lot of the skits show teens speaking to each other that way and I think they assume that's what is done. (Think us reading the babysitters club at 8 years old and assuming all teen age girls were laying around in their friends room eating candy and running a business, it seemed like the epitome of cool!) I also stop those shows immediately but I know I am not always around when they are watching. I think at this age (8,9,10) it is more about trying out what they have seen or heard and think is "normal" or "funny" and less about blatant disrespect. But unless we stop them in the moment they assume it is ok.

I have also heard playground comments that are very "mean girl-esque" that we try to stop right away. Those I am more surprised about when parents ignore them at birthday parties etc. And we try to distance ourselves from that when possible.

I will stop her friends in my own house and say something like "Woah, that didnt sound very kind" but it is a fine line right now being the teachers kid and having her lose friendships because I am too "mean."

Thank you for the tools to approach this behavior. I agree that kids at this age either don’t know the impact of their words and behaviors and/or are still malleable enough to self-reflect and change. I really appreciate you out there teaching our kids these important lessons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep, I have seen this. I think it's a few things:

1) Kids with older siblings. This is probably the biggest.
2) Kids watching a lot of shows aimed at slightly older tweens. I'm thinking of the Nickelodeon stuff that's on Netflix.
3) Kids whose parents ignore it or even think it's cute. DD has a couple of friends like this. The parents are lovely but clueless and trying to be their kids' friend.

Its this.
My 8 year old boy has a friend who always pulls this stuff. Whining at me about wanting to play Fortnite which we don't have, then mocking my son for it. Insisting on sneaking around in my bedroom when I told him it's off limits. Whining for candy. Basically acting like he hates being at our house. I don't want him over anymore.
But the mom is a total doll. Sweetest lady ever. And she's like that with her son too. Never ever would raise her voice or say a harsh word.

OP here. I definitely got the sense from these few kids when they behaved this way that they were not having fun and didn't want to be at this party. Though at other points in the party they were playing with the other girls and seemed to be enjoying themselves. I wonder if part of it is internal, and there is a voice in their head telling them that some of these activities are "babyish" and that they shouldn't enjoy them. If it is, I wonder where that voice is coming from (older siblings, peers, parents, media? I don't know). It is sad. It is definitely a priority for me to teach my DD that she can like what she likes and not to let the judgment of others stop her from enjoying things. That's such a limited way to live.

[Anonymous]

+100 to the people saying it's TV/youtube.

[Anonymous]

We know some kids like this, ages 7 and 8. They seem to behave this way when uncomfortable. In our case, it is when we are only offering them analog and unstructured options at our place, like playing outside with our kid. They have come to expect that all activities are scaffolded and prepared for them, and if not, that they should have access to a screen so it’s actually fun. We don’t raise our kid this way at all, but her friends who are used to unfettered YouTube access and messaging apps and Roblox tend to struggle at our place… and also haven’t really asked to come back / be invited back. These same kids also have high expectations for snacks tailored to them and definitely come across as entitled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am an elem. school teacher and also have a 4th grade girl, and I have noticed the same thing. If I see her friends treating their parents or other kids that way - we have a conversation on the way home about how it is not acceptable. When her tone of voice shifts I shut it down immediately. Sometimes I think they are oblivious and don't realize how they are being perceived. Just mimicking tone from Youtube or other shows. Sometimes they are doing it for attention from their friends.

There have always been nasty bullies, way before phones and YouTube and anything else you can try and blame. The girls rolling their eyes are bullies. They are the type who will tell your daughter that her party sucked. These girls are toxic, stay away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We know some kids like this, ages 7 and 8. They seem to behave this way when uncomfortable. In our case, it is when we are only offering them analog and unstructured options at our place, like playing outside with our kid. They have come to expect that all activities are scaffolded and prepared for them, and if not, that they should have access to a screen so it’s actually fun. We don’t raise our kid this way at all, but her friends who are used to unfettered YouTube access and messaging apps and Roblox tend to struggle at our place… and also haven’t really asked to come back / be invited back. These same kids also have high expectations for snacks tailored to them and definitely come across as entitled.

I agree with this poster. And it doesn't correlate with money or "class". My kids get along best with kids who are similarly sheltered from the internet. They are allowed to play Mario etc but no youtube, tablets, or roblox. And with kids who are the same they all have a blast. It's the internet kids informing me that "this sucks". Thank you, 8 year old.

[Anonymous]

Social media (TikTok & instagram). They’re trying to act like influencers.