Help me solve this family relationship paradox

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.


However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

Thank you for the long reply, I appreciate it. Yes I have kids. And yes, I understand how complex parenting is, and no parent is perfect, I am not hanging on to old memories from childhood. But a specific instant prompted the confrontation, and they showed no humanity and went full blown attack, showed a side of them I didn't know existed. Would you mother abandon you (physically and emotionally, go no contact immediately) as soon as you shared your hurt feelings with her? No even wanting to "talk about it" or anything, just a switch of a button, go from one minute ago "oh, I love you so much, it's such a treat that you are visiting, we missed you so dearly" (yes, she is very verbal about her love like this), to one minute later "fine, bye, we don't know you anymore".

It sounds to me like they felt attacked. Did you attack them? I'm sure you think you didn't, but it very clearly seems to me like they felt attacked.

Oftentimes what we say and how we think we are expressing ourselves isn't the same as how we are perceived.

Did you make accusations? Allegations? I'm guessing you did.

I forget it who it was who said this, but today's younger people seem to walk around wanting an apology from their parents. Their parents, meanwhile, want a thank you.

When an emotionally unavailable parent perceives your need for connection or boundaries as an "attack,"
it stems from their own emotional immaturity, deep-seated issues (like trauma, neurodivergence), or fear of abandonment, causing them to feel criticized, rejected, or overwhelmed, leading to defensiveness, guilt-tripping, or stonewalling instead of empathy, because they lack the tools to handle vulnerability or responsibility for your feelings. They often see your emotional needs as demands on them, rather than normal relationship dynamics, and react by shutting down or blaming you

The real problem here is your arrogance in labeling them "emotionally unavailable parents." Plus all the weird therapy speak. You're the one that comes off looking immature. I'm sure you quite smugly think you're right. It's annoying ME -- I can only imagine what your poor parents think.

So, yes, it sounds to me like you attacked them. Baselessly. At some point, rational people realize there's no winning a circular argument and so they check out. What you see as emotional unavailability is just a self-preservation tactic. It's exhausing to have an unappreciative brat of a child haranguing you and calling you names.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.


However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

Thank you for the long reply, I appreciate it. Yes I have kids. And yes, I understand how complex parenting is, and no parent is perfect, I am not hanging on to old memories from childhood. But a specific instant prompted the confrontation, and they showed no humanity and went full blown attack, showed a side of them I didn't know existed. Would you mother abandon you (physically and emotionally, go no contact immediately) as soon as you shared your hurt feelings with her? No even wanting to "talk about it" or anything, just a switch of a button, go from one minute ago "oh, I love you so much, it's such a treat that you are visiting, we missed you so dearly" (yes, she is very verbal about her love like this), to one minute later "fine, bye, we don't know you anymore".

It sounds to me like they felt attacked. Did you attack them? I'm sure you think you didn't, but it very clearly seems to me like they felt attacked.

Oftentimes what we say and how we think we are expressing ourselves isn't the same as how we are perceived.

Did you make accusations? Allegations? I'm guessing you did.

I forget it who it was who said this, but today's younger people seem to walk around wanting an apology from their parents. Their parents, meanwhile, want a thank you.

When an emotionally unavailable parent perceives your need for connection or boundaries as an "attack,"
it stems from their own emotional immaturity, deep-seated issues (like trauma, neurodivergence), or fear of abandonment, causing them to feel criticized, rejected, or overwhelmed, leading to defensiveness, guilt-tripping, or stonewalling instead of empathy, because they lack the tools to handle vulnerability or responsibility for your feelings. They often see your emotional needs as demands on them, rather than normal relationship dynamics, and react by shutting down or blaming you

The real problem here is your arrogance in labeling them "emotionally unavailable parents." Plus all the weird therapy speak. You're the one that comes off looking immature. I'm sure you quite smugly think you're right. It's annoying ME -- I can only imagine what your poor parents think.

So, yes, it sounds to me like you attacked them. Baselessly. At some point, rational people realize there's no winning a circular argument and so they check out. What you see as emotional unavailability is just a self-preservation tactic. It's exhausing to have an unappreciative brat of a child haranguing you and calling you names.

You feel attacked, because you are one of those parents. Funny how you meantioned "weird therapy talk" whatever you meant by that. My parents also think that mental health is a hoax, that mentally ill people are just weak, that they just need to toughen up. After one of their children committed suicide, they acted "no clue" what happened. No clue why their child killed himself. Stop acting like them or you can speak for them. You have no idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing I don’t understand in these situations is other than clear abuse, which is not the experience for the majority of people, why are you trusting that your interpretation of a situation is correct? We look at things through the lens of where we are at. What 10 year old is correct that, “mom loves you best?” I feel so much of this is adults not willing to think maybe their child self is having a child like response/remembrance? Do none of you have kids? Do none of you see the outsized emotional responses to small situations? But all your remembrances were/are accurate? And you say the parents are the Narcissists 😂

Yep. FWIW, I have a good relationship with my adult daughter, but I am amazed how differently she remembers certain things and how, as a child, she was oblivious to lots of stuff that was going on. Like she was told that the reason her social life is curtailed is that mom is practically bed ridden and recovering from a surgery … but moms are invincible, right? There is no way mom couldn’t walk for a while, right?

[Anonymous]

The past is the past, you cannot change it. I look at how I'm treated now as well as my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.

However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

Thank you for the long reply, I appreciate it. Yes I have kids. And yes, I understand how complex parenting is, and no parent is perfect, I am not hanging on to old memories from childhood. But a specific instant prompted the confrontation, and they showed no humanity and went full blown attack, showed a side of them I didn't know existed. Would you mother abandon you (physically and emotionally, go no contact immediately) as soon as you shared your hurt feelings with her? No even wanting to "talk about it" or anything, just a switch of a button, go from one minute ago "oh, I love you so much, it's such a treat that you are visiting, we missed you so dearly" (yes, she is very verbal about her love like this), to one minute later "fine, bye, we don't know you anymore".

No, because my cold Austrian mother would never show any emotion like that one way or another. She can sort of play-act at being loving, with her friends, or with neighbors, for short periods around them. but when it comes down to it, she just doesn't have it in her. Or she does, but it's an effort for her to show it, so she just doesn't. Friends and neighbors comment on how lovely and pleasant and nice she is, and she is on the surface, but then once the audience is gone, she is just a pretty unemotional person who wants things the way she wants them and has a sort of script to how she thinks the day is going to go, like a school teacher, and she carries out that script without much emotion or without much back and forth discussion, again sort of like a school teacher. Outwardly pleasant, but never going to budge from the plan and not going to respond emotionally to anything, good or bad, that her child throws at her that day. A lot of "I'm sorry to hear you feel that way". or "well this is the plan for dinner and that's that" or "you sound angry but this is how we are going to spend the day" and so on. Truly, like a teacher with her class of students- detached, keeping things moving, never cruel but also never particularly loving. I'm not sure she ever yelled. She also never cried, or laughed joyfully with us, or even told us that she loved us. I'm sure she did love us, but I don't think it was in her nature to ever say it out loud.

She was like that as a parent and she continues to be like that as a grandparent.

But again- I take this info and I raise my own kids differently, and I don't see the point in rehashing any of this with my mom. She is who she is. My kids don't spend much time with her because she isn't really interested. And that's fine. Probably better!

[Anonymous]

I'm interested in this topic, too. My parents never really cut the cord with their own parents and asserted themselves A fgsw3`

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.

However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

Thank you for the long reply, I appreciate it. Yes I have kids. And yes, I understand how complex parenting is, and no parent is perfect, I am not hanging on to old memories from childhood. But a specific instant prompted the confrontation, and they showed no humanity and went full blown attack, showed a side of them I didn't know existed. Would you mother abandon you (physically and emotionally, go no contact immediately) as soon as you shared your hurt feelings with her? No even wanting to "talk about it" or anything, just a switch of a button, go from one minute ago "oh, I love you so much, it's such a treat that you are visiting, we missed you so dearly" (yes, she is very verbal about her love like this), to one minute later "fine, bye, we don't know you anymore".

No, because my cold Austrian mother would never show any emotion like that one way or another. She can sort of play-act at being loving, with her friends, or with neighbors, for short periods around them. but when it comes down to it, she just doesn't have it in her. Or she does, but it's an effort for her to show it, so she just doesn't. Friends and neighbors comment on how lovely and pleasant and nice she is, and she is on the surface, but then once the audience is gone, she is just a pretty unemotional person who wants things the way she wants them and has a sort of script to how she thinks the day is going to go, like a school teacher, and she carries out that script without much emotion or without much back and forth discussion, again sort of like a school teacher. Outwardly pleasant, but never going to budge from the plan and not going to respond emotionally to anything, good or bad, that her child throws at her that day. A lot of "I'm sorry to hear you feel that way". or "well this is the plan for dinner and that's that" or "you sound angry but this is how we are going to spend the day" and so on. Truly, like a teacher with her class of students- detached, keeping things moving, never cruel but also never particularly loving. I'm not sure she ever yelled. She also never cried, or laughed joyfully with us, or even told us that she loved us. I'm sure she did love us, but I don't think it was in her nature to ever say it out loud.

She was like that as a parent and she continues to be like that as a grandparent.

But again- I take this info and I raise my own kids differently, and I don't see the point in rehashing any of this with my mom. She is who she is. My kids don't spend much time with her because she isn't really interested. And that's fine. Probably better!

So as a parent your mother validated feelings (“I’m sorry you feel that way”) and set boundaries and asserted control as a parent (ie this is for dinner … )? But you are big mad she didn’t cry for you?

Are you… gentle parenting now or something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.


However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

Thank you for the long reply, I appreciate it. Yes I have kids. And yes, I understand how complex parenting is, and no parent is perfect, I am not hanging on to old memories from childhood. But a specific instant prompted the confrontation, and they showed no humanity and went full blown attack, showed a side of them I didn't know existed. Would you mother abandon you (physically and emotionally, go no contact immediately) as soon as you shared your hurt feelings with her? No even wanting to "talk about it" or anything, just a switch of a button, go from one minute ago "oh, I love you so much, it's such a treat that you are visiting, we missed you so dearly" (yes, she is very verbal about her love like this), to one minute later "fine, bye, we don't know you anymore".

It sounds to me like they felt attacked. Did you attack them? I'm sure you think you didn't, but it very clearly seems to me like they felt attacked.

Oftentimes what we say and how we think we are expressing ourselves isn't the same as how we are perceived.

Did you make accusations? Allegations? I'm guessing you did.

I forget it who it was who said this, but today's younger people seem to walk around wanting an apology from their parents. Their parents, meanwhile, want a thank you.

When an emotionally unavailable parent perceives your need for connection or boundaries as an "attack,"
it stems from their own emotional immaturity, deep-seated issues (like trauma, neurodivergence), or fear of abandonment, causing them to feel criticized, rejected, or overwhelmed, leading to defensiveness, guilt-tripping, or stonewalling instead of empathy, because they lack the tools to handle vulnerability or responsibility for your feelings. They often see your emotional needs as demands on them, rather than normal relationship dynamics, and react by shutting down or blaming you

The real problem here is your arrogance in labeling them "emotionally unavailable parents." Plus all the weird therapy speak. You're the one that comes off looking immature. I'm sure you quite smugly think you're right. It's annoying ME -- I can only imagine what your poor parents think.

So, yes, it sounds to me like you attacked them. Baselessly. At some point, rational people realize there's no winning a circular argument and so they check out. What you see as emotional unavailability is just a self-preservation tactic. It's exhausing to have an unappreciative brat of a child haranguing you and calling you names.

You feel attacked, because you are one of those parents. Funny how you meantioned "weird therapy talk" whatever you meant by that. My parents also think that mental health is a hoax, that mentally ill people are just weak, that they just need to toughen up. After one of their children committed suicide, they acted "no clue" what happened. No clue why their child killed himself. Stop acting like them or you can speak for them. You have no idea.

Darling, I've had plenty of therapy in my life so that's how I recognize the buzzwords and phrasings. My God, you spoke in cliches, a hodgepodge of clinical and therapy concepts that I'm sure you heard in sessions but didn't adequately understand or reflect on.

My guess is you had some fantasy for how your little confrontation was going to go. You've spent so much time navel gazing, hiding 'neath the covers and studying your pain (with apologies to the Boss) and obsessing about how "hurt" you are that you've never done the work of considering the perspectives of others. The original question seems to be like the first time it has ever occurred to you -- only this realization -- OMG OTHER PEOPLE HAVE FEELINGS TOO! MINE AREN'T THE ONLY ONES! -- happened only after you did something dramatic and catastrophic.

I notice how your response to my observations was to attack ME. I don't know you. But I know your type. I see this frequently in younger generations today -- everything bad that has ever happened to you is someone else's fault; your feelings weren't coddled; now people don't follow the script in your head when you imagine how telling them off is going to go. Boohoohoo.

Guess what, sweetheart? This is real life. Your parents DO have emotions. They might have learned to subvert them from you to put you first, but you'd better believe they have them. But don't you dare try to go in and tell them how they need to also study their own pain. Because let me tell you kid, they're probably GenX, and GenX did endure a lot of trauma. But we got the hell over it, we didn't wallow.

Stop wallowing. It's unseemly.

Thank you for the blah blah, now you have just exposed yourself. Don't skip your meds. You are not normal, you literally need professional help.

[Anonymous]

I'm interested in this topic, too. My parents never really cut the cord with their own parents. There was a lot of dysfunction, mostly emotional abuse that stemmed from being raised within a strict, conservative Catholic world where kids are expected to adhere to family rules and never go against mother and father. You OBEY and don't question your parents. The elders never questioned their behavior-- I'm right, you, child, are wrong, and I'll throw a temper tantrum if you "disobey." In other words, their wings were clipped early on so there wasn't any straying too far-- no one went away to college, bought a house far from their parents and no one especially questioned the ingrained values. My siblings and I were the first to "stray"-- we went away to schedule "with permission." In a way, everyone stopped growing/evolving by age 16. It was a scary world and you weren't really expected to make it without family support, especially if you were female. And they gladly pulled out the checkbook to keep you in line (I just didn't see it at the time that those checks came with strings attached. It was the way things were done going back years. The immigrant family acquired a little wealth and knew how to wield it to keep everyone in line).

I look at how DH and I are raising our kids now. We see them as individual people, not just our kids, or worse, extensions of ourselves to parade around and command to do our bidding ("you do this and that and keep quiet and be a little lady and give great aunt and uncle so and so kisses on the cheek because we expect that proper behavior of you!). Another major difference between my upbringing and how we're raising our kids is the focus on religion as the center of everything. Again, a way to control.

Is it worth bringing any of this up to them? Absolutely not. At nearly 80, they see no issue there at all. No use in taking everyone backwards, and who needs to add that to their to-do list as a parent. They see themselves as wonderful people who were never emotionally abusive. You just learn how you'd rather not live your life and what you'd rather not put your own kids through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.


However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

Thank you for the long reply, I appreciate it. Yes I have kids. And yes, I understand how complex parenting is, and no parent is perfect, I am not hanging on to old memories from childhood. But a specific instant prompted the confrontation, and they showed no humanity and went full blown attack, showed a side of them I didn't know existed. Would you mother abandon you (physically and emotionally, go no contact immediately) as soon as you shared your hurt feelings with her? No even wanting to "talk about it" or anything, just a switch of a button, go from one minute ago "oh, I love you so much, it's such a treat that you are visiting, we missed you so dearly" (yes, she is very verbal about her love like this), to one minute later "fine, bye, we don't know you anymore".

It sounds to me like they felt attacked. Did you attack them? I'm sure you think you didn't, but it very clearly seems to me like they felt attacked.

Oftentimes what we say and how we think we are expressing ourselves isn't the same as how we are perceived.

Did you make accusations? Allegations? I'm guessing you did.

I forget it who it was who said this, but today's younger people seem to walk around wanting an apology from their parents. Their parents, meanwhile, want a thank you.

When an emotionally unavailable parent perceives your need for connection or boundaries as an "attack,"
it stems from their own emotional immaturity, deep-seated issues (like trauma, neurodivergence), or fear of abandonment, causing them to feel criticized, rejected, or overwhelmed, leading to defensiveness, guilt-tripping, or stonewalling instead of empathy, because they lack the tools to handle vulnerability or responsibility for your feelings. They often see your emotional needs as demands on them, rather than normal relationship dynamics, and react by shutting down or blaming you

The real problem here is your arrogance in labeling them "emotionally unavailable parents." Plus all the weird therapy speak. You're the one that comes off looking immature. I'm sure you quite smugly think you're right. It's annoying ME -- I can only imagine what your poor parents think.

So, yes, it sounds to me like you attacked them. Baselessly. At some point, rational people realize there's no winning a circular argument and so they check out. What you see as emotional unavailability is just a self-preservation tactic. It's exhausing to have an unappreciative brat of a child haranguing you and calling you names.

You feel attacked, because you are one of those parents. Funny how you meantioned "weird therapy talk" whatever you meant by that. My parents also think that mental health is a hoax, that mentally ill people are just weak, that they just need to toughen up. After one of their children committed suicide, they acted "no clue" what happened. No clue why their child killed himself. Stop acting like them or you can speak for them. You have no idea.

Darling, I've had plenty of therapy in my life so that's how I recognize the buzzwords and phrasings. My God, you spoke in cliches, a hodgepodge of clinical and therapy concepts that I'm sure you heard in sessions but didn't adequately understand or reflect on.

My guess is you had some fantasy for how your little confrontation was going to go. You've spent so much time navel gazing, hiding 'neath the covers and studying your pain (with apologies to the Boss) and obsessing about how "hurt" you are that you've never done the work of considering the perspectives of others. The original question seems to be like the first time it has ever occurred to you -- only this realization -- OMG OTHER PEOPLE HAVE FEELINGS TOO! MINE AREN'T THE ONLY ONES! -- happened only after you did something dramatic and catastrophic.

I notice how your response to my observations was to attack ME. I don't know you. But I know your type. I see this frequently in younger generations today -- everything bad that has ever happened to you is someone else's fault; your feelings weren't coddled; now people don't follow the script in your head when you imagine how telling them off is going to go. Boohoohoo.

Guess what, sweetheart? This is real life. Your parents DO have emotions. They might have learned to subvert them from you to put you first, but you'd better believe they have them. But don't you dare try to go in and tell them how they need to also study their own pain. Because let me tell you kid, they're probably GenX, and GenX did endure a lot of trauma. But we got the hell over it, we didn't wallow.

Stop wallowing. It's unseemly.

Thank you for the blah blah, now you have just exposed yourself. Don't skip your meds. You are not normal, you literally need professional help.

I’m fine. You’re the one who seems to have made a mess of your family life. An apology to your parents might help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.

However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

Thank you for the long reply, I appreciate it. Yes I have kids. And yes, I understand how complex parenting is, and no parent is perfect, I am not hanging on to old memories from childhood. But a specific instant prompted the confrontation, and they showed no humanity and went full blown attack, showed a side of them I didn't know existed. Would you mother abandon you (physically and emotionally, go no contact immediately) as soon as you shared your hurt feelings with her? No even wanting to "talk about it" or anything, just a switch of a button, go from one minute ago "oh, I love you so much, it's such a treat that you are visiting, we missed you so dearly" (yes, she is very verbal about her love like this), to one minute later "fine, bye, we don't know you anymore".

No, because my cold Austrian mother would never show any emotion like that one way or another. She can sort of play-act at being loving, with her friends, or with neighbors, for short periods around them. but when it comes down to it, she just doesn't have it in her. Or she does, but it's an effort for her to show it, so she just doesn't. Friends and neighbors comment on how lovely and pleasant and nice she is, and she is on the surface, but then once the audience is gone, she is just a pretty unemotional person who wants things the way she wants them and has a sort of script to how she thinks the day is going to go, like a school teacher, and she carries out that script without much emotion or without much back and forth discussion, again sort of like a school teacher. Outwardly pleasant, but never going to budge from the plan and not going to respond emotionally to anything, good or bad, that her child throws at her that day. A lot of "I'm sorry to hear you feel that way". or "well this is the plan for dinner and that's that" or "you sound angry but this is how we are going to spend the day" and so on. Truly, like a teacher with her class of students- detached, keeping things moving, never cruel but also never particularly loving. I'm not sure she ever yelled. She also never cried, or laughed joyfully with us, or even told us that she loved us. I'm sure she did love us, but I don't think it was in her nature to ever say it out loud.

She was like that as a parent and she continues to be like that as a grandparent.

But again- I take this info and I raise my own kids differently, and I don't see the point in rehashing any of this with my mom. She is who she is. My kids don't spend much time with her because she isn't really interested. And that's fine. Probably better!

So as a parent your mother validated feelings (“I’m sorry you feel that way”) and set boundaries and asserted control as a parent (ie this is for dinner … )? But you are big mad she didn’t cry for you?

Are you… gentle parenting now or something?

Of course not. It's hard to describe correctly I guess, but imagine having a mother who had zero emotional response to anything you ever did or said. No joyful laughter, no spontaneous hug with an "i love you", no "you did such an amazing job in the play, i was so proud of you!". Also no "You're really irritating me right now- you need to stop". or "that tone of voice is rude- and you need to cut it out and speak politely". Or "I'm really angry with you right now because you broke the rules again and i know you know better". No emotion at all. Like a third grade teacher who isn't emotionally invested in anything that's going on, but will keep the class running smoothly. She was like a robot. The "I'm sorry you feel that way" would be said with no eye contact as she didn't even stop what she was doing. Little kids need some emotional connection, some emotional response, some sign that their mother is a living, breathing being and not just a detached robot who will keep them clean, fed, and housed but who doesn't have really any feelings towards them, good or bad.

Validating a kids feelings without emotion ("i'm sorry you feel that way") and setting boundaries and asserting control ("this is what is for dinner") is obviously good parenting. But in the context of a parent who is also loving and, more importantly, RESPONSIVE to their child. You can't be detached and pragmatic and teacher-like 100% of the time without ever showing that you can be responsive, and listen to, and care about, to what your kid wants and needs and feels and thinks.

Anyways I'm definitely not a gentle parent but I listen to my kids and care about what they have to say and show them that I, too, have feelings and emotions. I'm still in charge of what's for dinner but, like, if they tell me every week how chili gives them a stomach ache, I'm not going to keep making chili every monday for the rest of their lives without discussion, like a cafeteria lady at school. i'm going to listen to them and change things up at some point. because i'm not a robot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.

However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

Thank you for the long reply, I appreciate it. Yes I have kids. And yes, I understand how complex parenting is, and no parent is perfect, I am not hanging on to old memories from childhood. But a specific instant prompted the confrontation, and they showed no humanity and went full blown attack, showed a side of them I didn't know existed. Would you mother abandon you (physically and emotionally, go no contact immediately) as soon as you shared your hurt feelings with her? No even wanting to "talk about it" or anything, just a switch of a button, go from one minute ago "oh, I love you so much, it's such a treat that you are visiting, we missed you so dearly" (yes, she is very verbal about her love like this), to one minute later "fine, bye, we don't know you anymore".

No, because my cold Austrian mother would never show any emotion like that one way or another. She can sort of play-act at being loving, with her friends, or with neighbors, for short periods around them. but when it comes down to it, she just doesn't have it in her. Or she does, but it's an effort for her to show it, so she just doesn't. Friends and neighbors comment on how lovely and pleasant and nice she is, and she is on the surface, but then once the audience is gone, she is just a pretty unemotional person who wants things the way she wants them and has a sort of script to how she thinks the day is going to go, like a school teacher, and she carries out that script without much emotion or without much back and forth discussion, again sort of like a school teacher. Outwardly pleasant, but never going to budge from the plan and not going to respond emotionally to anything, good or bad, that her child throws at her that day. A lot of "I'm sorry to hear you feel that way". or "well this is the plan for dinner and that's that" or "you sound angry but this is how we are going to spend the day" and so on. Truly, like a teacher with her class of students- detached, keeping things moving, never cruel but also never particularly loving. I'm not sure she ever yelled. She also never cried, or laughed joyfully with us, or even told us that she loved us. I'm sure she did love us, but I don't think it was in her nature to ever say it out loud.

She was like that as a parent and she continues to be like that as a grandparent.

But again- I take this info and I raise my own kids differently, and I don't see the point in rehashing any of this with my mom. She is who she is. My kids don't spend much time with her because she isn't really interested. And that's fine. Probably better!

So as a parent your mother validated feelings (“I’m sorry you feel that way”) and set boundaries and asserted control as a parent (ie this is for dinner … )? But you are big mad she didn’t cry for you?

Are you… gentle parenting now or something?

Of course not. It's hard to describe correctly I guess, but imagine having a mother who had zero emotional response to anything you ever did or said. No joyful laughter, no spontaneous hug with an "i love you", no "you did such an amazing job in the play, i was so proud of you!". Also no "You're really irritating me right now- you need to stop". or "that tone of voice is rude- and you need to cut it out and speak politely". Or "I'm really angry with you right now because you broke the rules again and i know you know better". No emotion at all. Like a third grade teacher who isn't emotionally invested in anything that's going on, but will keep the class running smoothly. She was like a robot. The "I'm sorry you feel that way" would be said with no eye contact as she didn't even stop what she was doing. Little kids need some emotional connection, some emotional response, some sign that their mother is a living, breathing being and not just a detached robot who will keep them clean, fed, and housed but who doesn't have really any feelings towards them, good or bad.

Validating a kids feelings without emotion ("i'm sorry you feel that way") and setting boundaries and asserting control ("this is what is for dinner") is obviously good parenting. But in the context of a parent who is also loving and, more importantly, RESPONSIVE to their child. You can't be detached and pragmatic and teacher-like 100% of the time without ever showing that you can be responsive, and listen to, and care about, to what your kid wants and needs and feels and thinks.

Anyways I'm definitely not a gentle parent but I listen to my kids and care about what they have to say and show them that I, too, have feelings and emotions. I'm still in charge of what's for dinner but, like, if they tell me every week how chili gives them a stomach ache, I'm not going to keep making chili every monday for the rest of their lives without discussion, like a cafeteria lady at school. i'm going to listen to them and change things up at some point. because i'm not a robot.

NP here. You mentioned Austrian mother. What year was she born? I'm asking only because my German mother ('43) is only similar to my German friends' mothers who were born roughly the same timeframes and grew up in post war Germany. Raised potentially by parents with PTSD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.


However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

Thank you for the long reply, I appreciate it. Yes I have kids. And yes, I understand how complex parenting is, and no parent is perfect, I am not hanging on to old memories from childhood. But a specific instant prompted the confrontation, and they showed no humanity and went full blown attack, showed a side of them I didn't know existed. Would you mother abandon you (physically and emotionally, go no contact immediately) as soon as you shared your hurt feelings with her? No even wanting to "talk about it" or anything, just a switch of a button, go from one minute ago "oh, I love you so much, it's such a treat that you are visiting, we missed you so dearly" (yes, she is very verbal about her love like this), to one minute later "fine, bye, we don't know you anymore".

It sounds to me like they felt attacked. Did you attack them? I'm sure you think you didn't, but it very clearly seems to me like they felt attacked.

Oftentimes what we say and how we think we are expressing ourselves isn't the same as how we are perceived.

Did you make accusations? Allegations? I'm guessing you did.

I forget it who it was who said this, but today's younger people seem to walk around wanting an apology from their parents. Their parents, meanwhile, want a thank you.

When an emotionally unavailable parent perceives your need for connection or boundaries as an "attack,"
it stems from their own emotional immaturity, deep-seated issues (like trauma, neurodivergence), or fear of abandonment, causing them to feel criticized, rejected, or overwhelmed, leading to defensiveness, guilt-tripping, or stonewalling instead of empathy, because they lack the tools to handle vulnerability or responsibility for your feelings. They often see your emotional needs as demands on them, rather than normal relationship dynamics, and react by shutting down or blaming you

The real problem here is your arrogance in labeling them "emotionally unavailable parents." Plus all the weird therapy speak. You're the one that comes off looking immature. I'm sure you quite smugly think you're right. It's annoying ME -- I can only imagine what your poor parents think.

So, yes, it sounds to me like you attacked them. Baselessly. At some point, rational people realize there's no winning a circular argument and so they check out. What you see as emotional unavailability is just a self-preservation tactic. It's exhausing to have an unappreciative brat of a child haranguing you and calling you names.

You feel attacked, because you are one of those parents. Funny how you meantioned "weird therapy talk" whatever you meant by that. My parents also think that mental health is a hoax, that mentally ill people are just weak, that they just need to toughen up. After one of their children committed suicide, they acted "no clue" what happened. No clue why their child killed himself. Stop acting like them or you can speak for them. You have no idea.

Darling, I've had plenty of therapy in my life so that's how I recognize the buzzwords and phrasings. My God, you spoke in cliches, a hodgepodge of clinical and therapy concepts that I'm sure you heard in sessions but didn't adequately understand or reflect on.

My guess is you had some fantasy for how your little confrontation was going to go. You've spent so much time navel gazing, hiding 'neath the covers and studying your pain (with apologies to the Boss) and obsessing about how "hurt" you are that you've never done the work of considering the perspectives of others. The original question seems to be like the first time it has ever occurred to you -- only this realization -- OMG OTHER PEOPLE HAVE FEELINGS TOO! MINE AREN'T THE ONLY ONES! -- happened only after you did something dramatic and catastrophic.

I notice how your response to my observations was to attack ME. I don't know you. But I know your type. I see this frequently in younger generations today -- everything bad that has ever happened to you is someone else's fault; your feelings weren't coddled; now people don't follow the script in your head when you imagine how telling them off is going to go. Boohoohoo.

Guess what, sweetheart? This is real life. Your parents DO have emotions. They might have learned to subvert them from you to put you first, but you'd better believe they have them. But don't you dare try to go in and tell them how they need to also study their own pain. Because let me tell you kid, they're probably GenX, and GenX did endure a lot of trauma. But we got the hell over it, we didn't wallow.

Stop wallowing. It's unseemly.

Thank you for the blah blah, now you have just exposed yourself. Don't skip your meds. You are not normal, you literally need professional help.

I’m fine. You’re the one who seems to have made a mess of your family life. An apology to your parents might help.

Haha, for someone who's been to LOTs of therapy to think other people's family life is mess, i can only imagine the horrible life you lived and you deserve it. enjoy your lonely final years on earth, next life, become a rock, that's more fitting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Were a lot of parents super emotionally available in older generations? Love my parents, but they were/are not that way. I think the healthiest thing to do is just to use that as a "what not to do with my own kids" manual and just accept them as they are, shortcomings and all. Do I have a little bitterness at times? Sure. Bringing it up would not change anything because as you say the response (in my parents' case) would be for them to be very hurt, but they can't go back and do it all better than they did.

OP here, in my own case, the confrontation already happened and the parents are doubling down on attack, they are denying everything, and is speaking in a way that prop themselves up, pretend they were perfect parents. When confronted with more concrete things that are harder to deny, such as alcoholism (he is life-long alcoholic), or other specific examples, they went into full blown attack mode. Honestly, if they just acknowledge just a little bit of the truth, I would be willing to forgive.

OP, are you a parent yourself? I ask because when I was an adult in my 20s and early 30s before I had kids, I felt certain ways about how my mother raised me, including being too critical and too emotionally unavailable, and too controlling when I was a teen in some ways, and not controlling enough- not enough support or guidance or setting boundaries- in some other ways.

However since having my own children, my thoughts have shifted entirely. Some of what I used to feel so angry about, I now realize that she was trying her best and doing what she thought was correct for me, and I am not angry anymore. However, interestingly, some other things I feel even more strongly about, and I realize how easy it is to show your kids love and how putting down your own hobby and engaging with your child when they ask you to is a choice you make, and I have a hard time forgiving her for other things she did while raising me that maybe didn't even bother me before.

All this being said, I dont' bring any of it up with her, because what is the point. My childhood is over. She can't change it. Maybe I'm more emotionally distant than I would have been if I'd addressed this with her and worked it out in family therapy or whatever but I dont have time for that, I dont care enough, and I doubt shed be open to it, being the rather cold Austrian woman that she is. It's fine, she's fine, I'm fine, we get along fine even if i'm not eager to go out to lunch with her all the time or go shopping with her all the time or do things other adult women seem to enjoy doing with their mothers. Sometimes you just have to move on and realize life isnt perfect and people aren't perfect.

Thank you for the long reply, I appreciate it. Yes I have kids. And yes, I understand how complex parenting is, and no parent is perfect, I am not hanging on to old memories from childhood. But a specific instant prompted the confrontation, and they showed no humanity and went full blown attack, showed a side of them I didn't know existed. Would you mother abandon you (physically and emotionally, go no contact immediately) as soon as you shared your hurt feelings with her? No even wanting to "talk about it" or anything, just a switch of a button, go from one minute ago "oh, I love you so much, it's such a treat that you are visiting, we missed you so dearly" (yes, she is very verbal about her love like this), to one minute later "fine, bye, we don't know you anymore".

No, because my cold Austrian mother would never show any emotion like that one way or another. She can sort of play-act at being loving, with her friends, or with neighbors, for short periods around them. but when it comes down to it, she just doesn't have it in her. Or she does, but it's an effort for her to show it, so she just doesn't. Friends and neighbors comment on how lovely and pleasant and nice she is, and she is on the surface, but then once the audience is gone, she is just a pretty unemotional person who wants things the way she wants them and has a sort of script to how she thinks the day is going to go, like a school teacher, and she carries out that script without much emotion or without much back and forth discussion, again sort of like a school teacher. Outwardly pleasant, but never going to budge from the plan and not going to respond emotionally to anything, good or bad, that her child throws at her that day. A lot of "I'm sorry to hear you feel that way". or "well this is the plan for dinner and that's that" or "you sound angry but this is how we are going to spend the day" and so on. Truly, like a teacher with her class of students- detached, keeping things moving, never cruel but also never particularly loving. I'm not sure she ever yelled. She also never cried, or laughed joyfully with us, or even told us that she loved us. I'm sure she did love us, but I don't think it was in her nature to ever say it out loud.

She was like that as a parent and she continues to be like that as a grandparent.

But again- I take this info and I raise my own kids differently, and I don't see the point in rehashing any of this with my mom. She is who she is. My kids don't spend much time with her because she isn't really interested. And that's fine. Probably better!

So as a parent your mother validated feelings (“I’m sorry you feel that way”) and set boundaries and asserted control as a parent (ie this is for dinner … )? But you are big mad she didn’t cry for you?

Are you… gentle parenting now or something?

Of course not. It's hard to describe correctly I guess, but imagine having a mother who had zero emotional response to anything you ever did or said. No joyful laughter, no spontaneous hug with an "i love you", no "you did such an amazing job in the play, i was so proud of you!". Also no "You're really irritating me right now- you need to stop". or "that tone of voice is rude- and you need to cut it out and speak politely". Or "I'm really angry with you right now because you broke the rules again and i know you know better". No emotion at all. Like a third grade teacher who isn't emotionally invested in anything that's going on, but will keep the class running smoothly. She was like a robot. The "I'm sorry you feel that way" would be said with no eye contact as she didn't even stop what she was doing. Little kids need some emotional connection, some emotional response, some sign that their mother is a living, breathing being and not just a detached robot who will keep them clean, fed, and housed but who doesn't have really any feelings towards them, good or bad.

Validating a kids feelings without emotion ("i'm sorry you feel that way") and setting boundaries and asserting control ("this is what is for dinner") is obviously good parenting. But in the context of a parent who is also loving and, more importantly, RESPONSIVE to their child. You can't be detached and pragmatic and teacher-like 100% of the time without ever showing that you can be responsive, and listen to, and care about, to what your kid wants and needs and feels and thinks.

Anyways I'm definitely not a gentle parent but I listen to my kids and care about what they have to say and show them that I, too, have feelings and emotions. I'm still in charge of what's for dinner but, like, if they tell me every week how chili gives them a stomach ache, I'm not going to keep making chili every monday for the rest of their lives without discussion, like a cafeteria lady at school. i'm going to listen to them and change things up at some point. because i'm not a robot.

NP here. You mentioned Austrian mother. What year was she born? I'm asking only because my German mother ('43) is only similar to my German friends' mothers who were born roughly the same timeframes and grew up in post war Germany. Raised potentially by parents with PTSD.

She was born in ‘45!! But in the US, to parents who immigrated from Austria in the 30s right before WW2. So while her own environment growing up was post war America, her parents were traumatized from immigrating and then their family left behind being killed. I think her own parents were even colder and more detached than she was , honestly, so she probably did her best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing I don’t understand in these situations is other than clear abuse, which is not the experience for the majority of people, why are you trusting that your interpretation of a situation is correct? We look at things through the lens of where we are at. What 10 year old is correct that, “mom loves you best?” I feel so much of this is adults not willing to think maybe their child self is having a child like response/remembrance? Do none of you have kids? Do none of you see the outsized emotional responses to small situations? But all your remembrances were/are accurate? And you say the parents are the Narcissists 😂

At least for me, I'm willing to overlook my childhood. My parents have issues and trauma from their own upbringing, and expectations for parents were different in the 80s and 90s.

What I'm not willing to overlook is repeated poor treatment of me as an adult. I've tried all sorts of boundaries over the last 20 years and my parents are still a-holes to me. They absolutely reject any mental healthcare as fake voodoo, but my dad is absolutely autistic and likely would be considered a narcissist if evaluated. My mom is likely some version of depressed, manic and borderline personality disordered. They mostly hate each other but also have an unhealthy co-dependent relationship where my dad needs my mom for basic life tasks (laundry, cooking, executive function) and my mom needs to feel needed. As an example, my mom was bleeding out from fibroids in her uterus and taken to the hospital for many units of blood, followed by an emergency hysterectomy once her clotting factor was high enough. She called my dad (who didn't go with her in the ambulance because he was watching the game) and his only question for her was when she'd be making dinner. She was furious and swore at him. He had no idea why she was mad and was furious with her for swearing. She ended up calling one of her coworkers to bring her purse, cell phone charger and glasses to the hospital because he wouldn't. Yet, their relationship goes on.

I've minimized contact to step away from the drama. My mom tends to make up fake things that didn't happen and then pins me as the family villain for things I didn't do. It's impossible to have sufficient boundaries when your disengagement means they just make up things about you.

So yeah, maybe my childhood memories aren't perfect. By my recent memories are absolutely clear.