Pomona vs Williams ED for Chemistry/Neuroscience

[Anonymous]

For differences in outdoors, here's the outing club instagrams
Williams: [/url]https://www.instagram.com/wocstagram/[url]
Pomona: [/url]https://www.instagram.com/pomonaoec/[url]
[/url]https://www.instagram.com/pocoutside/[url]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - how much exposure does she have to neuroscience? That seems like a pretty narrow focus. A semester? A summer internship? Particularly because they are both SLACs, I would not factor the neuroscience part much into the equation.

Where do you live? Which campus seems like a better fit? I know Williams fairly well and very little about Pomona except a somewhat odd acquaintance in their 50s who went there (and I am wise enough not to let that influence my opinion). They seem like pretty different places other than size and prestige.

In many ways they're pretty similar. Top LACs known for their good financial aid, diversity, high quality math departments, interest in global engagement (Pomona and Williams both currently have a Global emphasis in their strategic plans, Pomona has the Cambridge Program and Downing Scholars, Williams has WEPO and Oxford fellowships), both have a pretty big outdoors community/focus. The differences are mostly tutorial versus consortium, but the similarities are very much there, because Pomona, in general, is modeled after a New England college.

I don't really think neuro is that narrow. It's a field that intersects computer science, statistics, biology, chemistry, and mathematics. It's a bit of a juiced up biology degree.

My question is how much does she truly know about neuroscience? Assuming she finished her junior year of HS, she was likely largely taking core type classes - Bio, Chem and Physics, English, History, Language, the usual math sequence, etc. So I don't know how much exposure she would have to something like that. Perhaps someone with an interest might have gotten a semester or so of it junior year, and then will take it senior year.

Both schools are very national, but I think Williams draws more heavily from the east coast, while Pomona more from the west, and that is where most kids end up. Their names are strong enough that you can end up wherever you want, but there might not be a ton of other alums there.

Williams is also more isolated. There just is not much there. Which has its pros and cons. My kid is OK with that, particularly because they love skiing so will take advantage of it. Many others would find it limiting. Pomona is less isolated.

DP. I don't really see why this matters. A student who understands they like bio and has an interest in the brain will be attracted to a neuro major. Whole academic subjects are missing from our high school curriculum but students find an interest every year (sociology, geology, anthropology, etc.)

Totally agree. I just think there is a difference between saying "I think I will want to do neuroscience" vs. having the quality of the respective neuroscience departments being a major decision factor when you are still just kind of curious about it. I don't think the OP is doing this, but just wanted to make the point before others do a PhD thesis on the nuanced differences between the two schools for neuroscience (which people tend to do here).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This isn't an uncommon two colleges to be caught between (https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/60/1222104.page). I don't fully get why, since Pomona and Williams seem like polar opposites to me, but you know everyone's different. Pomona if you want a fun, focused student body, a bit politically active, more options, and are fine with ending up at UCSF, Berkeley, Stanford and quite a few kids researching over at Rockefeller. Williams if your kid is serious, prestige-driven, exceptional, and will end up at Harvard, Johns Hopkins, and Penn. Williams made Anna Christina De Ozorio Nobre and Pomona made Jennifer Doudna. Heavier science student culture at Pomona, but heavier ACADEMIC culture at Williams.

No. Yale made Nobre and Harvard made Doudna.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not luck that you had a sunny day - it’s sunny everyday LOL. DD is double majoring in policy and math at Pomona. She has taken classes from CMC and Pitzer and have friends across all 5 schools. Her classmates are extremely intelligent and motivated, many of them are valedictorians of their high schools. The school promotes collaboration than competition, and kids generally seem happy and laid back. Ontario Int’l Airport is only 15 minutes away but there isn’t a direct flight from where we live (east coast). Or, you can fly to LAX and uber to school, uber fare is about $100. Two things other than the weather that make Pomona vastly different from Williams and other LACs - the consortium you mentioned and diversity of the student body. I’ve got no experience with Williams but my other kid dreams of attending the NESCAC schools.

I don’t know if you’ve considered this, but our DD takes the shuttles by the college to LAX and Ontario. Also for lax, you can avoid the uber if you have light luggage since there’s the flyaway bus (~$9) and Metrolink that goes straight from Union Station to Claremont. Nowadays DD’s friends pick her up from the airport, but this might be helpful for freshman.

Thanks, that’s good to know. She usually flies to Ontario and her friends pick her up there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This isn't an uncommon two colleges to be caught between (https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/60/1222104.page). I don't fully get why, since Pomona and Williams seem like polar opposites to me, but you know everyone's different. Pomona if you want a fun, focused student body, a bit politically active, more options, and are fine with ending up at UCSF, Berkeley, Stanford and quite a few kids researching over at Rockefeller. Williams if your kid is serious, prestige-driven, exceptional, and will end up at Harvard, Johns Hopkins, and Penn. Williams made Anna Christina De Ozorio Nobre and Pomona made Jennifer Doudna. Heavier science student culture at Pomona, but heavier ACADEMIC culture at Williams.

No. Yale made Nobre and Harvard made Doudna.

Doudna was an undergraduate student at Pomona College in Claremont, California, where she studied biochemistry.[6][7] During her freshman year, while taking a course in general chemistry, she questioned her own ability to pursue a career in science, and considered switching her major to French as a sophomore.[24][6] However, her French teacher suggested she stay with science.[6][24] Chemistry professors Fred Grieman and Corwin Hansch at Pomona had a major impact on her.

“I am grateful to Pomona every day, honestly,” Doudna told Pomona College Magazine a few years back, “because it was a liberal arts education that exposed me to so many ideas that I would never have come in contact with, probably, without having attended Pomona.”

Doudna seems pretty damned proud to be a Pomona alum; she was even a trustee.

[Anonymous]

the Williams athletic influence is real and prevalent everywhere- 40% of kids on teams, cliques everywhere

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - how much exposure does she have to neuroscience? That seems like a pretty narrow focus. A semester? A summer internship? Particularly because they are both SLACs, I would not factor the neuroscience part much into the equation.

Where do you live? Which campus seems like a better fit? I know Williams fairly well and very little about Pomona except a somewhat odd acquaintance in their 50s who went there (and I am wise enough not to let that influence my opinion). They seem like pretty different places other than size and prestige.

In many ways they're pretty similar. Top LACs known for their good financial aid, diversity, high quality math departments, interest in global engagement (Pomona and Williams both currently have a Global emphasis in their strategic plans, Pomona has the Cambridge Program and Downing Scholars, Williams has WEPO and Oxford fellowships), both have a pretty big outdoors community/focus. The differences are mostly tutorial versus consortium, but the similarities are very much there, because Pomona, in general, is modeled after a New England college.

I don't really think neuro is that narrow. It's a field that intersects computer science, statistics, biology, chemistry, and mathematics. It's a bit of a juiced up biology degree.

My question is how much does she truly know about neuroscience? Assuming she finished her junior year of HS, she was likely largely taking core type classes - Bio, Chem and Physics, English, History, Language, the usual math sequence, etc. So I don't know how much exposure she would have to something like that. Perhaps someone with an interest might have gotten a semester or so of it junior year, and then will take it senior year.

Both schools are very national, but I think Williams draws more heavily from the east coast, while Pomona more from the west, and that is where most kids end up. Their names are strong enough that you can end up wherever you want, but there might not be a ton of other alums there.

Williams is also more isolated. There just is not much there. Which has its pros and cons. My kid is OK with that, particularly because they love skiing so will take advantage of it. Many others would find it limiting. Pomona is less isolated.

She has competed and received awards from the national brain bee, does volunteering with Alzheimers patients, and is pretty active/leads the psych club at school. Getting a summer internship is pretty unheard of for a high school student, so she hasn't done that.

I don't see why we wouldn't factor in the neuroscience, since it is not beyond a liberal arts college to have a subject inside the liberal arts.

We live outside of Boston. Once again, we found the campus comparisons unfair since it was a shining perfect day in Claremont when we visited, and we don't want to rush to assumptions because it was nice for one day. Both seemed pretty isolating to us, but obviously Pomona is a bit more connected with access to LA.

For other posters, we were pretty underwhelmed by Amherst and DD really didn't enjoy the campus aesthetic nor did we like any of the students/faculty we talked with. Seemed like an alright place, but it isn't a good match for DD. Swarthmore is a bit too academically focused that it seems suffocating to be in for four years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - how much exposure does she have to neuroscience? That seems like a pretty narrow focus. A semester? A summer internship? Particularly because they are both SLACs, I would not factor the neuroscience part much into the equation.

Where do you live? Which campus seems like a better fit? I know Williams fairly well and very little about Pomona except a somewhat odd acquaintance in their 50s who went there (and I am wise enough not to let that influence my opinion). They seem like pretty different places other than size and prestige.

In many ways they're pretty similar. Top LACs known for their good financial aid, diversity, high quality math departments, interest in global engagement (Pomona and Williams both currently have a Global emphasis in their strategic plans, Pomona has the Cambridge Program and Downing Scholars, Williams has WEPO and Oxford fellowships), both have a pretty big outdoors community/focus. The differences are mostly tutorial versus consortium, but the similarities are very much there, because Pomona, in general, is modeled after a New England college.

I don't really think neuro is that narrow. It's a field that intersects computer science, statistics, biology, chemistry, and mathematics. It's a bit of a juiced up biology degree.

My question is how much does she truly know about neuroscience? Assuming she finished her junior year of HS, she was likely largely taking core type classes - Bio, Chem and Physics, English, History, Language, the usual math sequence, etc. So I don't know how much exposure she would have to something like that. Perhaps someone with an interest might have gotten a semester or so of it junior year, and then will take it senior year.

Both schools are very national, but I think Williams draws more heavily from the east coast, while Pomona more from the west, and that is where most kids end up. Their names are strong enough that you can end up wherever you want, but there might not be a ton of other alums there.

Williams is also more isolated. There just is not much there. Which has its pros and cons. My kid is OK with that, particularly because they love skiing so will take advantage of it. Many others would find it limiting. Pomona is less isolated.

She has competed and received awards from the national brain bee, does volunteering with Alzheimers patients, and is pretty active/leads the psych club at school. Getting a summer internship is pretty unheard of for a high school student, so she hasn't done that.

I don't see why we wouldn't factor in the neuroscience, since it is not beyond a liberal arts college to have a subject inside the liberal arts.

We live outside of Boston. Once again, we found the campus comparisons unfair since it was a shining perfect day in Claremont when we visited, and we don't want to rush to assumptions because it was nice for one day. Both seemed pretty isolating to us, but obviously Pomona is a bit more connected with access to LA.

For other posters, we were pretty underwhelmed by Amherst and DD really didn't enjoy the campus aesthetic nor did we like any of the students/faculty we talked with. Seemed like an alright place, but it isn't a good match for DD. Swarthmore is a bit too academically focused that it seems suffocating to be in for four years.

I would encourage her to stretch her wings and apply to Pomona. You gain a lot of confidence and independence when you are far from home. It is a gift to be able to enjoy and be comfortable on both the East and West Coasts

[Anonymous]

We toured Williams recently and didn’t like it. Campus was okay and town was small and drab. Some like the tutorial system which is good if you’re not a self starter but my kid thought it too intense.We didn’t look at the west coast because we didn’t want them going so far away from home. To each their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We toured Williams recently and didn’t like it. Campus was okay and town was small and drab. Some like the tutorial system which is good if you’re not a self starter but my kid thought it too intense.We didn’t look at the west coast because we didn’t want them going so far away from home. To each their own.

And this comment was necessary and will help op how?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - how much exposure does she have to neuroscience? That seems like a pretty narrow focus. A semester? A summer internship? Particularly because they are both SLACs, I would not factor the neuroscience part much into the equation.

Where do you live? Which campus seems like a better fit? I know Williams fairly well and very little about Pomona except a somewhat odd acquaintance in their 50s who went there (and I am wise enough not to let that influence my opinion). They seem like pretty different places other than size and prestige.

In many ways they're pretty similar. Top LACs known for their good financial aid, diversity, high quality math departments, interest in global engagement (Pomona and Williams both currently have a Global emphasis in their strategic plans, Pomona has the Cambridge Program and Downing Scholars, Williams has WEPO and Oxford fellowships), both have a pretty big outdoors community/focus. The differences are mostly tutorial versus consortium, but the similarities are very much there, because Pomona, in general, is modeled after a New England college.

I don't really think neuro is that narrow. It's a field that intersects computer science, statistics, biology, chemistry, and mathematics. It's a bit of a juiced up biology degree.

My question is how much does she truly know about neuroscience? Assuming she finished her junior year of HS, she was likely largely taking core type classes - Bio, Chem and Physics, English, History, Language, the usual math sequence, etc. So I don't know how much exposure she would have to something like that. Perhaps someone with an interest might have gotten a semester or so of it junior year, and then will take it senior year.

Both schools are very national, but I think Williams draws more heavily from the east coast, while Pomona more from the west, and that is where most kids end up. Their names are strong enough that you can end up wherever you want, but there might not be a ton of other alums there.

Williams is also more isolated. There just is not much there. Which has its pros and cons. My kid is OK with that, particularly because they love skiing so will take advantage of it. Many others would find it limiting. Pomona is less isolated.

She has competed and received awards from the national brain bee, does volunteering with Alzheimers patients, and is pretty active/leads the psych club at school. Getting a summer internship is pretty unheard of for a high school student, so she hasn't done that.

I don't see why we wouldn't factor in the neuroscience, since it is not beyond a liberal arts college to have a subject inside the liberal arts.

We live outside of Boston. Once again, we found the campus comparisons unfair since it was a shining perfect day in Claremont when we visited, and we don't want to rush to assumptions because it was nice for one day. Both seemed pretty isolating to us, but obviously Pomona is a bit more connected with access to LA.

For other posters, we were pretty underwhelmed by Amherst and DD really didn't enjoy the campus aesthetic nor did we like any of the students/faculty we talked with. Seemed like an alright place, but it isn't a good match for DD. Swarthmore is a bit too academically focused that it seems suffocating to be in for four years.

NP: If she is that hard core for a specific scientific discipline, a SLAC might not be right for her as it isn't as research focused. You generally choose a SLAC for the overall product, not a specific area - that is the point of a liberal arts education. Obviously SLACs are a great overall experience and many go on from them to do PhD's in sciences, but the nuanced details of the science departments are irrelevant.

Sounds like she has done some great things - congrats. It is a big difference between going to school a fairly short drive from home vs. cross country. Obviously lots of pros and cons. But helpful to know you are outside Boston.

[Anonymous]

My experience from Williams is 30+ years old but back then, it had a great chemistry department. The one chemistry major I knew went on to a top PhD program.

[Anonymous]

The weather is nice a lot of days at Pomona!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - how much exposure does she have to neuroscience? That seems like a pretty narrow focus. A semester? A summer internship? Particularly because they are both SLACs, I would not factor the neuroscience part much into the equation.

Where do you live? Which campus seems like a better fit? I know Williams fairly well and very little about Pomona except a somewhat odd acquaintance in their 50s who went there (and I am wise enough not to let that influence my opinion). They seem like pretty different places other than size and prestige.

In many ways they're pretty similar. Top LACs known for their good financial aid, diversity, high quality math departments, interest in global engagement (Pomona and Williams both currently have a Global emphasis in their strategic plans, Pomona has the Cambridge Program and Downing Scholars, Williams has WEPO and Oxford fellowships), both have a pretty big outdoors community/focus. The differences are mostly tutorial versus consortium, but the similarities are very much there, because Pomona, in general, is modeled after a New England college.

I don't really think neuro is that narrow. It's a field that intersects computer science, statistics, biology, chemistry, and mathematics. It's a bit of a juiced up biology degree.

My question is how much does she truly know about neuroscience? Assuming she finished her junior year of HS, she was likely largely taking core type classes - Bio, Chem and Physics, English, History, Language, the usual math sequence, etc. So I don't know how much exposure she would have to something like that. Perhaps someone with an interest might have gotten a semester or so of it junior year, and then will take it senior year.

Both schools are very national, but I think Williams draws more heavily from the east coast, while Pomona more from the west, and that is where most kids end up. Their names are strong enough that you can end up wherever you want, but there might not be a ton of other alums there.

Williams is also more isolated. There just is not much there. Which has its pros and cons. My kid is OK with that, particularly because they love skiing so will take advantage of it. Many others would find it limiting. Pomona is less isolated.

She has competed and received awards from the national brain bee, does volunteering with Alzheimers patients, and is pretty active/leads the psych club at school. Getting a summer internship is pretty unheard of for a high school student, so she hasn't done that.

I don't see why we wouldn't factor in the neuroscience, since it is not beyond a liberal arts college to have a subject inside the liberal arts.

We live outside of Boston. Once again, we found the campus comparisons unfair since it was a shining perfect day in Claremont when we visited, and we don't want to rush to assumptions because it was nice for one day. Both seemed pretty isolating to us, but obviously Pomona is a bit more connected with access to LA.

For other posters, we were pretty underwhelmed by Amherst and DD really didn't enjoy the campus aesthetic nor did we like any of the students/faculty we talked with. Seemed like an alright place, but it isn't a good match for DD. Swarthmore is a bit too academically focused that it seems suffocating to be in for four years.

NP: If she is that hard core for a specific scientific discipline, a SLAC might not be right for her as it isn't as research focused. You generally choose a SLAC for the overall product, not a specific area - that is the point of a liberal arts education. Obviously SLACs are a great overall experience and many go on from them to do PhD's in sciences, but the nuanced details of the science departments are irrelevant.

Sounds like she has done some great things - congrats. It is a big difference between going to school a fairly short drive from home vs. cross country. Obviously lots of pros and cons. But helpful to know you are outside Boston.

For what it's worth, ours chose Pomona because of the physics program specifically. He has had an amazing time and still adores the physics major and has not been let down by research opportunities. With LACs, it's good to compare departments, because some departments are occasionally underfunded or undersupported if not enough students have interest. Also I think the entire 5C model kinda disproves this. You go to Mudd because you want to do STEM, you go to Pitzer because you have an interest in the environment, organizing, or social institutions, you go to CMC because you have an interest in economics, government, or philosophy. You can be hard core interested in something, and still have other coursework. For example, DS took classes in religious studies and German, because they were still of interest. Students still come into LACs with some working idea of their interests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The weather is nice a lot of days at Pomona!!

+1, it only rains something like 30 days the whole year in Claremont in an average year. Tanning on a random day sounds about right.