Do your coaches select the divisional events?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:um, we just had a coach call a parent on our team and ask their kid to step down so another, older, kid could swim an event. No joke.

This same kid was also told he couldn't swim his top preference because the coaches wanted to give the slot to a team rep's kid whose only faster time in the event had resulted in a DQ.....

I'll take things that didn't happen for $200, Alex.

It absolutely happened .... thank God the parent had a backbone, told the coach they need to follow the ladder for this individual event and their child wasn't going to sacrifice their earned slot to make another kid feel better, and then called the other team rep (not the parent of one who would have benefitted) and complained.

All of us are now wondering: is there an official NVSL policy about decisions on divisionals? Could a coach put a slower kid into divisionals in the name of boosting opportunities for all on the team or showing team rep kid they believe in him despite dq?

On our team the coach calls the swimmers over in groups to work down the ladder (example: 9-10 girls, 8u boys, etc).

I heard one of the other girls guilt her friend not to pick an event so that she could swim it. The girl being guilted could have chosen any event for the most part except for one and this 10 year old stood there telling her not to pick her favorite stroke because then she would be sad and couldn’t swim.

I know there’s no perfect system here, but it’s sad to see swimmers get so emotionally invested in something like this that they put themselves over their friends. If there were cut times everyone who qualified could go but yes, then the meet would run way longer!

Your coach is stupid. This should not be done in a group setting. It should either be done individually, starting with the top dog and moving down the chain, or done via online/written selection.

[Anonymous]

If you're top 2 in any event it's your choice. I think the coaches look at your times and overall times in your age group and let you know which ones you're most likely to make all stars in and that's how the swimmer ultimately picks.

[Anonymous]

I don’t get why everyone doesn’t do this using a Google form where the swimmers rank their preferences. It’s so easy! The top kids automatically get their first and second (or third, if they get to swim 3 events) choices. Then you go down the ladder and fill in the events based on what is left and the other swimmers’ preferences. Mine is third is one event and fourth in two others. They get to swim their first choice automatically because it’s the one in which they are third. They also get to swim their #2 and#3 ranked strokes because one of the top 3 in those events must have ranked those as their #4 and #5. A couple other kids are getting to swim events where they are lower on the ladder than my kid because my kid ranked those strokes as 4 and 5.

No need for phone calls or making kids pick events in front of each other. Kids on our team will talk a bit about what they are picking around the time form is due, but no one pressures each other to pick certain events that I am aware of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:um, we just had a coach call a parent on our team and ask their kid to step down so another, older, kid could swim an event. No joke.

This same kid was also told he couldn't swim his top preference because the coaches wanted to give the slot to a team rep's kid whose only faster time in the event had resulted in a DQ.....

I'll take things that didn't happen for $200, Alex.

It absolutely happened .... thank God the parent had a backbone, told the coach they need to follow the ladder for this individual event and their child wasn't going to sacrifice their earned slot to make another kid feel better, and then called the other team rep (not the parent of one who would have benefitted) and complained.

All of us are now wondering: is there an official NVSL policy about decisions on divisionals? Could a coach put a slower kid into divisionals in the name of boosting opportunities for all on the team or showing team rep kid they believe in him despite dq?

On our team the coach calls the swimmers over in groups to work down the ladder (example: 9-10 girls, 8u boys, etc).

I heard one of the other girls guilt her friend not to pick an event so that she could swim it. The girl being guilted could have chosen any event for the most part except for one and this 10 year old stood there telling her not to pick her favorite stroke because then she would be sad and couldn’t swim.

I know there’s no perfect system here, but it’s sad to see swimmers get so emotionally invested in something like this that they put themselves over their friends. If there were cut times everyone who qualified could go but yes, then the meet would run way longer!

On the flip side of that coin we have a swimmer who is all star in almost all strokes but picked events to knock out the kids that were closest in her times and most likely to break her records.

[Anonymous]

Are you sure that was the intent? If this is just your perspective then fine. Kids are very mercurial - I don’t pretend to always know why my own kids do what they do much less they they people’s kids.

[Anonymous]

CSL. Coach picks events. Swimmers don’t get input even those with all star times in all events.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you sure that was the intent? If this is just your perspective then fine. Kids are very mercurial - I don’t pretend to always know why my own kids do what they do much less they they people’s kids.

Oops. Meant “other people’s”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:um, we just had a coach call a parent on our team and ask their kid to step down so another, older, kid could swim an event. No joke.

This same kid was also told he couldn't swim his top preference because the coaches wanted to give the slot to a team rep's kid whose only faster time in the event had resulted in a DQ.....

I'll take things that didn't happen for $200, Alex.

It absolutely happened .... thank God the parent had a backbone, told the coach they need to follow the ladder for this individual event and their child wasn't going to sacrifice their earned slot to make another kid feel better, and then called the other team rep (not the parent of one who would have benefitted) and complained.

All of us are now wondering: is there an official NVSL policy about decisions on divisionals? Could a coach put a slower kid into divisionals in the name of boosting opportunities for all on the team or showing team rep kid they believe in him despite dq?

On our team the coach calls the swimmers over in groups to work down the ladder (example: 9-10 girls, 8u boys, etc).

I heard one of the other girls guilt her friend not to pick an event so that she could swim it. The girl being guilted could have chosen any event for the most part except for one and this 10 year old stood there telling her not to pick her favorite stroke because then she would be sad and couldn’t swim.

I know there’s no perfect system here, but it’s sad to see swimmers get so emotionally invested in something like this that they put themselves over their friends. If there were cut times everyone who qualified could go but yes, then the meet would run way longer!

On the flip side of that coin we have a swimmer who is all star in almost all strokes but picked events to knock out the kids that were closest in her times and most likely to break her records.

It doesn't make any sense. This must be in NVSL (swimmers pick strokes). In NVSL, swimmers are only allowed 2 strokes, and there are at least two swimmers per stroke per pool. After the all-star swimmer picks her strokes, the second fastest (the one closest to the all-star's time) gets to pick hers, and both (top 2) swimmers compete in the same event.

Are you whining because your kid (#3 or #4 on the ladder) doesn't get to go to divisionals?

[Anonymous]

I think nvsl divisionals is emotionally tough for kids. The same kids who have been at a meets all summer may not get to swim. I’ve heard kids make choices so their friends could swim, and I’ve heard kids hint that they wish so and so would pick something so they could swim.

None of them are being manipulative as much as they are just kids. Every year there are disappointed swimmers (which is fine) and I think for some fast girls (in particular) that can feel like their fault. On our team, the coaches support the kids to choose what is best for themselves, but it’s still a tough process!!

[Anonymous]

On the flip side of that coin we have a swimmer who is all star in almost all strokes but picked events to knock out the kids that were closest in her times and most likely to break her records.

I recently argued in the "Summer Swim Brings Out the Crazy" thread that a very large percentage of the lineup paranoia expressed in this forum comes from parents who passionately advocate for their kids but do not fully grasp how swimming lineups work. This post is a good example: here we have a parent who is willing to mind read someone else's child, assign a complex and slightly malicious motivation to that child that does not make sense on its own terms, and conjure some sort of vague unfairness out of thin air.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

On the flip side of that coin we have a swimmer who is all star in almost all strokes but picked events to knock out the kids that were closest in her times and most likely to break her records.

I recently argued in the "Summer Swim Brings Out the Crazy" thread that a very large percentage of the lineup paranoia expressed in this forum comes from parents who passionately advocate for their kids but do not fully grasp how swimming lineups work. This post is a good example: here we have a parent who is willing to mind read someone else's child, assign a complex and slightly malicious motivation to that child that does not make sense on its own terms, and conjure some sort of vague unfairness out of thin air.


I agree this comment (not yours- but the one you quoted) is either a troll, or a very stressed parent who doesn't really get it. I think there are parents like this in every division, and they often really really think that people are out to get their children. I'm not sure how to help them see reality more clearly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

On the flip side of that coin we have a swimmer who is all star in almost all strokes but picked events to knock out the kids that were closest in her times and most likely to break her records.

I recently argued in the "Summer Swim Brings Out the Crazy" thread that a very large percentage of the lineup paranoia expressed in this forum comes from parents who passionately advocate for their kids but do not fully grasp how swimming lineups work. This post is a good example: here we have a parent who is willing to mind read someone else's child, assign a complex and slightly malicious motivation to that child that does not make sense on its own terms, and conjure some sort of vague unfairness out of thin air.


I agree this comment (not yours- but the one you quoted) is either a troll, or a very stressed parent who doesn't really get it. I think there are parents like this in every division, and they often really really think that people are out to get their children. I'm not sure how to help them see reality more clearly.

I think for people new to swimming the objectivity of the results can be difficult. Unlike most team sports where the coach's opinion, who works the hardest, being a team player, etc may come into play for being picked for a special team of some kind, the times are the times. All of the final freestyles in my DD's age group's times are within .2 seconds of each other. That sucks for the third kid who will not swim in divisionals, was there at every practice, swam every A meet, and was "edged out" by the other girl at the last second.. but there is no arguing with the times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:um, we just had a coach call a parent on our team and ask their kid to step down so another, older, kid could swim an event. No joke.

This same kid was also told he couldn't swim his top preference because the coaches wanted to give the slot to a team rep's kid whose only faster time in the event had resulted in a DQ.....

I'll take things that didn't happen for $200, Alex.

It absolutely happened .... thank God the parent had a backbone, told the coach they need to follow the ladder for this individual event and their child wasn't going to sacrifice their earned slot to make another kid feel better, and then called the other team rep (not the parent of one who would have benefitted) and complained.

All of us are now wondering: is there an official NVSL policy about decisions on divisionals? Could a coach put a slower kid into divisionals in the name of boosting opportunities for all on the team or showing team rep kid they believe in him despite dq?

On our team the coach calls the swimmers over in groups to work down the ladder (example: 9-10 girls, 8u boys, etc).

I heard one of the other girls guilt her friend not to pick an event so that she could swim it. The girl being guilted could have chosen any event for the most part except for one and this 10 year old stood there telling her not to pick her favorite stroke because then she would be sad and couldn’t swim.

I know there’s no perfect system here, but it’s sad to see swimmers get so emotionally invested in something like this that they put themselves over their friends. If there were cut times everyone who qualified could go but yes, then the meet would run way longer!

On the flip side of that coin we have a swimmer who is all star in almost all strokes but picked events to knock out the kids that were closest in her times and most likely to break her records.

It doesn't make any sense. This must be in NVSL (swimmers pick strokes). In NVSL, swimmers are only allowed 2 strokes, and there are at least two swimmers per stroke per pool. After the all-star swimmer picks her strokes, the second fastest (the one closest to the all-star's time) gets to pick hers, and both (top 2) swimmers compete in the same event.

Are you whining because your kid (#3 or #4 on the ladder) doesn't get to go to divisionals?

Top team. The top 2-4 all have all star times. They will all go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you sure that was the intent? If this is just your perspective then fine. Kids are very mercurial - I don’t pretend to always know why my own kids do what they do much less they they people’s kids.

Pretty sure. They picked an event that would not put them on the podium at all stars (they have other events that they definitely would be) but by picking the events they did they can defend the record.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ladder. Fair. Done.

Of course, but when kids are top of ladder in more than the two event max (NVSL), decisions are required. On our team, it’s swimmer’s choice.

Also NVSL and similar. Although sometimes the coach will talk kids, more common with younger kids, into picking something that may not be their first choice but that they are good at and have a better chance of making all stars. For example, top 8U not swimming free because it tends to be very competitive and they have a batter chance of making all stars or placing higher in something else at divisionals.