Big GDS news

[Anonymous]

I would like to see this too. Hasn't GDS already been in Tenleytown for 20 years. Did housing values nearby do better than values further away after it moved in?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Currently there is a big empty grocery store, a bike shop and a used car dealer.

Replace that with the high value private school expansion, 200 new housing units (with related income, property and sales tax) and 75,000 square feet of high value retail and voila, more revenue to the city, higher property taxes around the school and more amenities in the neighborhood.

Not everyone sees this as a negative.

What exactly is a "high value private school expansion"? It sounds good, but seems to be one of those empty calories expressions -- i.e., meaningless.

Some people actually want to buy a house near a school where their kid attends. Besides, I don't see housing values hurting near Maret, Sidwell, St Albans, St Patricks, NPC, St Johns or NCS.

Can you please provide a citation demonstrating that the immediately adjacent and closest home values aren't lower than identical homes 3 blocks away from these schools?

[Anonymous]

Then why are smart growth activists trying to pressure the school to build a bigger project on the Maartens lot when its board of trustees determined that it was in the school's best interest to do a smaller project, and the Head of School wrote a letter to the Current stating that was the school's decision?

quote=Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The school could sell the Safeway lot to a developer to put residential on the residentially-zoned plots and commercial on the commercial plots. Smart growth groups should pressure GDS to do so instead of applauding this massive loss of housing and tax revenue. Matter of right development at both sites would produce much more tax revenue and housing for the District. But you can continue to support this bad project because GDS shill.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very important distinction. The harm of this project will be both to DC generally and Tenleytown specifically. A large swath of land that could be used for dense mixed-use development, creating hundreds of new homes for residents in Tenleytown, millions of dollars of tax revenue directly, and more through enhanced valuations of surrounding properties, is instead being devoted to a private school. Greater Greater Washington should get on this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tenleytown doesn't get tax revenue. It all goes to DC.

reading is so hard. So many words, so many letters and stuff:

"ring desired vibrancy and renewal to Tenleytown and needed tax revenue and housing to DC."

Except that wasn't the post that prompted the comment. This one was: "By putting a school on a valuable commercial lot, the school will actually take tax revenue and vibrancy away from Tenleytown."

If a private developer had bought both the Safeway parcel and the Martens lot, then yes, you would have an argument. However, the school bought the property, so unless they sell the whole thing, we are left with maximizing the part that won't be the school.

But, [b]you can continue to fight the school because NIMBY.

Yes, the school could do that and I suspect Smart Growth groups would welcome the additional housing. However, I don't think Smart Growth groups are in a position to pressure a property owner to do anything like what you suggest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school could sell the Safeway lot to a developer to put residential on the residentially-zoned plots and commercial on the commercial plots. Smart growth groups should pressure GDS to do so instead of applauding this massive loss of housing and tax revenue. Matter of right development at both sites would produce much more tax revenue and housing for the District. But you can continue to support this bad project because GDS shill.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very important distinction. The harm of this project will be both to DC generally and Tenleytown specifically. A large swath of land that could be used for dense mixed-use development, creating hundreds of new homes for residents in Tenleytown, millions of dollars of tax revenue directly, and more through enhanced valuations of surrounding properties, is instead being devoted to a private school. Greater Greater Washington should get on this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tenleytown doesn't get tax revenue. It all goes to DC.

reading is so hard. So many words, so many letters and stuff:

"ring desired vibrancy and renewal to Tenleytown and needed tax revenue and housing to DC."

Also, the grey haired old-timers in the neighborhood would fight this tooth and nail.


Except that wasn't the post that prompted the comment. This one was: "By putting a school on a valuable commercial lot, the school will actually take tax revenue and vibrancy away from Tenleytown."

If a private developer had bought both the Safeway parcel and the Martens lot, then yes, you would have an argument. However, the school bought the property, so unless they sell the whole thing, we are left with maximizing the part that won't be the school.

But, [b]you can continue to fight the school because NIMBY.

Yes, the school could do that and I suspect Smart Growth groups would welcome the additional housing. However, I don't think Smart Growth groups are in a position to pressure a property owner to do anything like what you suggest.

[Anonymous]

Translation: I just made up what I said.

Anonymous wrote:Look at the house immediately next to Maret that sold in a day. And while I wasn't referring to the immediate parcel, but rather the neighborhood, so despite that, there is high demand for houses on Woodley Road, off of Foxhall Rd, in Cleveland Park and North Cleveland Park and Tenleytown. I don't see where the presence of private schools has at all diminished property values and instead look in the school directories and you will see scores of families that chose to live within walking distance of these schools, and in many cases, they moved after their kids were admitted.

Otherwise, all of the data is available in the DC Property Tax database. Inspect it yourself.

[Anonymous]

The house immediately next door to Maret sold over asking in one day. That is a fact. The inforamtion you are requesting is readily available and it is a fact that houses on Woodley Road, Upton Street, Garfield Street and Terrace etc are all in high demand and sell quickly. Are you disputing that Cleveland Park, Woodley Park and AU Park homes generally sell quickly?

And, aren't you the same person who suggested that housing values are lower in areas where there is high walkability and demand for shops and restaurants?

Tell it to the folks who live on the 1300-1700 blocks of P through R Street whose property values have quadrupled in the past 10 years.

[Anonymous]

One house sold over asking price quickly next to Maret and that proves your point? Have any houses anywhere else in DC sold for over asking price in one day? Because obviously whatever they are next to must have caused that to happen, and inquiring minds will want to know what to get to move in next to their house so they can achieve that result. The offer price won't matter.

Anonymous wrote:The house immediately next door to Maret sold over asking in one day. That is a fact. The inforamtion you are requesting is readily available and it is a fact that houses on Woodley Road, Upton Street, Garfield Street and Terrace etc are all in high demand and sell quickly. Are you disputing that Cleveland Park, Woodley Park and AU Park homes generally sell quickly?

And, aren't you the same person who suggested that housing values are lower in areas where there is high walkability and demand for shops and restaurants?

Tell it to the folks who live on the 1300-1700 blocks of P through R Street whose property values have quadrupled in the past 10 years.

[Anonymous]

When the statement is made that private schools are bad for the community, and the retort is that the community home values are not the same as 'right next door' and yet, right next door there is a house that went quickly, over asking, then yes, the anecdotal makes the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

1. Dense mixed use in proximity to existing residential areas can also lead to lower property values because of traffic, parking and other external costs imposed on the neighborhood.

Where is the attribution for this point.

It seems like values in Logan Circle, H Street, U Street, Navy Yard and even Anacostia would disprove this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look at the house immediately next to Maret that sold in a day. And while I wasn't referring to the immediate parcel, but rather the neighborhood, so despite that, there is high demand for houses on Woodley Road, off of Foxhall Rd, in Cleveland Park and North Cleveland Park and Tenleytown. I don't see where the presence of private schools has at all diminished property values and instead look in the school directories and you will see scores of families that chose to live within walking distance of these schools, and in many cases, they moved after their kids were admitted.

Otherwise, all of the data is available in the DC Property Tax database. Inspect it yourself.

Oh you and I agree completely that "being in the general vicinity of elite schools, the metro station, shopping etc" is absolutely a boost to property values. I live on one such Ward 3 block myself.

No, the actual, discrete topic here is ... what happens to the property value of the bungalow or rowhouse immediately adjacent to and in the shadow of the new 90-ft-high GDS tower / Cathedral Commons barf / 300 additional students over night? Do you truly believe that bungalow's value holds steady? Do you think it is the same as the identical bungalow 4 blocks into the neighborhood (CCDC, Tenley, CP, doesn't matter)

Hint: No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the house immediately next to Maret that sold in a day. And while I wasn't referring to the immediate parcel, but rather the neighborhood, so despite that, there is high demand for houses on Woodley Road, off of Foxhall Rd, in Cleveland Park and North Cleveland Park and Tenleytown. I don't see where the presence of private schools has at all diminished property values and instead look in the school directories and you will see scores of families that chose to live within walking distance of these schools, and in many cases, they moved after their kids were admitted.

Otherwise, all of the data is available in the DC Property Tax database. Inspect it yourself.

Oh you and I agree completely that "being in the general vicinity of elite schools, the metro station, shopping etc" is absolutely a boost to property values. I live on one such Ward 3 block myself.

No, the actual, discrete topic here is ... what happens to the property value of the bungalow or rowhouse immediately adjacent to and in the shadow of the new 90-ft-high GDS tower / Cathedral Commons barf / 300 additional students over night? Do you truly believe that bungalow's value holds steady? Do you think it is the same as the identical bungalow 4 blocks into the neighborhood (CCDC, Tenley, CP, doesn't matter)

Hint: No.

Relatedly, in AU Park, the cheerleading the pro-PUD, 'we need more amenities!' all live well into the neighborhood. None of the signed supporters live on the 4300 blocks of Ellicot or Cheapeake, to name a couple.

I too would love 20 new restaurants built within walking distance of my house but actually in your backyard. Why wouldn't I? You get the mess and noise, and I get dim sum and walk away. perfect!

[Anonymous]

A good part of your sentence makes no sense, but you seem to be saying that a single instance of a house near a private school selling quickly for more than the asking price establishes that proximity to private schools raises housing values. The anecdote shows nothing. The house could have been underpriced. Even if it was pverpriced, there could be something about other aspects of the neighborhood that made the house particularly attractive. There also could be something about Maret that other private schools such as GDS do not have. There is far more green space on the Maret campus, relative to the student body, than there will be at the new GDS campus. The architecture at Maret is very different than the institutional architecture proposed for the GDS expansion.

Anonymous wrote:When the statement is made that private schools are bad for the community, and the retort is that the community home values are not the same as 'right next door' and yet, right next door there is a house that went quickly, over asking, then yes, the anecdotal makes the point.

[Anonymous]

More than 500 additional students plus staff.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the house immediately next to Maret that sold in a day. And while I wasn't referring to the immediate parcel, but rather the neighborhood, so despite that, there is high demand for houses on Woodley Road, off of Foxhall Rd, in Cleveland Park and North Cleveland Park and Tenleytown. I don't see where the presence of private schools has at all diminished property values and instead look in the school directories and you will see scores of families that chose to live within walking distance of these schools, and in many cases, they moved after their kids were admitted.

Otherwise, all of the data is available in the DC Property Tax database. Inspect it yourself.

Oh you and I agree completely that "being in the general vicinity of elite schools, the metro station, shopping etc" is absolutely a boost to property values. I live on one such Ward 3 block myself.

No, the actual, discrete topic here is ... what happens to the property value of the bungalow or rowhouse immediately adjacent to and in the shadow of the new 90-ft-high GDS tower / Cathedral Commons barf / 300 additional students over night? Do you truly believe that bungalow's value holds steady? Do you think it is the same as the identical bungalow 4 blocks into the neighborhood (CCDC, Tenley, CP, doesn't matter)

Hint: No.

[Anonymous]

The houses in Cathedral Height's by Cathedral Commons have held and increased in value. In fact, one gem of a house that had fallen on hard times as a group house has been completely renovated and restored and recently sold for over $2 million.

And where is the house that will be next to the GDS Tower? There isn't one. The so called tower is on Wisconsin Avenue and not within 200 feet of a single family residential house.

THERE ARE NO HOUSES IN THE SHADOW OF OR IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO THE GDS "TOWER'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When the statement is made that private schools are bad for the community, and the retort is that the community home values are not the same as 'right next door' and yet, right next door there is a house that went quickly, over asking, then yes, the anecdotal makes the point.

no. you'd need to also show that the sale price is identical to or higher than the substantially similar Woodley home that doesn't abut Maret and was sold around the same time.

Can you do that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A good part of your sentence makes no sense, but you seem to be saying that a single instance of a house near a private school selling quickly for more than the asking price establishes that proximity to private schools raises housing values. The anecdote shows nothing. The house could have been underpriced. Even if it was pverpriced, there could be something about other aspects of the neighborhood that made the house particularly attractive. There also could be something about Maret that other private schools such as GDS do not have. There is far more green space on the Maret campus, relative to the student body, than there will be at the new GDS campus. The architecture at Maret is very different than the institutional architecture proposed for the GDS expansion.

You are really reaching. You make a point, it gets rebuffed, you make another point, it gets rebuffed and then you are the one that ends up making no sense.

Yes, there are all sorts of factors that go into the value of a home, but to claim without evidence that the GDS proposal is going to be doom and gloom for the local property owners when in fact, private schools appear to have no ill effect on housing prices is silly.

Similarly there are plenty of high demand areas with little to no available street parking.

There was a lot of fuss about Cathedral Commons, and to date none of the fears about traffic, parking or home values have been realized.

So, what was your point again?