Please help, what is this condition or disorder?

[Anonymous]

DS has been seen and tested by dozens of people. We only know that he's ADHD and has SPD. Two have said he's on the spectrum. He's eight yo.

Today I made breakfast for him (usually dad does). Dad makes him dollar pancakes. So I made him dollar pancakes too. Dad apparently lays the pancakes out in a swirly kind of design on the plate. I didn't do that. He told me I needed to do that because he's used to dad doing that for him. Then I also gave him slices of canteloupe and he said I should never put fruit on the same plate as his pancakes; it belongs in a separate bowl because that's the way he likes it. Then later this evening after he finished showering he asked Dad to dry him off with a towel. Dad refused saying he's old enough to do that on his own and walks out of the bathroom. He screams to dad, "Get back in here!!!" Do you want me to spray you?" He is holding the shower head in his hand. He has a total obsession (it's his perseveration) with electronic toys and other objects. He starts to take his toy "Operation" apart. I catch him and stop him from doing that. I tell him, "Wouldn't you like to donate that to a family with children who have no toys?" He looks guilty, but says no. I remind him that we donate thanksgiving baskets to the needy each year. I ask him if he enjoyed giving the baskets to charity or if he'd rather have the $45 in his pocket. He says he'd rather have the money for himself.

DS has lied and stolen before also from us and from others.

What's your take on this? What kind of disorder or condition makes a child so rude and inconsiderate?

[Anonymous]

You already have two diagnoses. You sound hostile. Look into that.

[Anonymous]

OP, why are you medicalizing bad behavior? Not everything a child does is caused by a "condition." You have a responsibility to parent your child. To discipline.

Obnoxious behavior in a child is obnoxious behavior. Tell him no. Set limits. Many children act this way at this age. They are testing limits. It's not caused by a medical condition. Children are egocentric. They don't naturally think of others. They don't naturally think of the needy or donating toys. They are naturally impulsive and can be very destructive and rather selfish. They want what they want. When they want it.

A lot of this is normal behavior, or normal obnoxious behavior. This is not a syndrome or a condition. Stop medicalizing and start parenting.

If you want your child to be charitable, model charity. Why do you serve your child his food at the age of eight? He's not two years old. Why do you dry him off? He's old enough to shower completely independently. You treat your child as if he's much younger -- and then you are shocked when he behaves as if he's much younger.

[Anonymous]

OP, your son sounds a lot like mine. He definitely was rude and self centered but that part is getting better. He is very intense, and interactions with him can leave one drained, and yes, even hostile towards him. He does not draw out warm cuddly feelings from a parent.

He also has Executive Function disorder. One Executive Function is the ability to switch gears, or "cognitive set". He has a terrible time doing that. It was horrible when he was a toddler, and when he was in early elementary school he was at about the level of a toddler in his ability to switch gears. What I mean by that is, you know all the tricks you are supposed to use with a toddler to warn them that one activity is about to end and you will be leaving and moving on to do something else? Those FINALLY started working by the time he was in Kindergarten.


Things had to be exactly the way he was expecting them, or he was unable to move on. And it was't the case that if you just held firm and refused to cater, he'd eventually get over it. He just never got over to, and would explode in frustration and the worst thing was, if you really stuck to it and weathered a three hour storm (over the size or shape of pancakes, say) the NEXT time it happened, you'd have to do the same thing all over again -- he wouldn't learn from these events! And disciplining him didn't help eaither.

What did help was reading "The Explosive CHild" and learning to treat this difficulty switching gears as a developmental delay, recognizing what his present level of functioning was, and trying to deal with him as if he were a much younger child but teach him how to handle changes at that younger level and move him up the ladder of skills. This part was really hard because I got a lot of accusations from family that I was coddling and enabling his behavior, but I just ignored them because I could tell I was on the right track because I was seeing improvement. THings are so much better now -- he is 10, and also I think his brain has just matured. I'd say he was working more on the level of an 8 year old now in terms of his ability to be adaptable and switch gears, but that is so much easier to live with!

[Anonymous]

Also OP -- you say two professionals have aid your child is on the spectrum -- so you actually have an autism diagnosis from a qualified professional? The rigidity and lack of empathy you describe definitely can be seen in autistic kids.

[Anonymous]

My son was like this - he had Obsessive Compulsive Personality Type (or something like that - not OCD) and anxiety. Basically it made him so crazy when something was not how he expected it he exploded.

I took him to a psycologist and they did behavioral therapy. He was 8 at the time - I called a doctor at Johns Hopkins and he said 8, 9, 10 is really the worst time.

He is 12 now and charming, easy going, etc. He starts to obsess on something and I can talk to him and explain his is anxious or obsessing.

I also did a very mild form of Feinhold diet - just natural food, no dyes, no MSG, no corn syrup.

Good Luck - Ignore the judgement and stares - you will figure this out.

You sound like a great mom!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, your son sounds a lot like mine. He definitely was rude and self centered but that part is getting better. He is very intense, and interactions with him can leave one drained, and yes, even hostile towards him. He does not draw out warm cuddly feelings from a parent.

He also has Executive Function disorder. One Executive Function is the ability to switch gears, or "cognitive set". He has a terrible time doing that. It was horrible when he was a toddler, and when he was in early elementary school he was at about the level of a toddler in his ability to switch gears. What I mean by that is, you know all the tricks you are supposed to use with a toddler to warn them that one activity is about to end and you will be leaving and moving on to do something else? Those FINALLY started working by the time he was in Kindergarten.


Things had to be exactly the way he was expecting them, or he was unable to move on. And it was't the case that if you just held firm and refused to cater, he'd eventually get over it. He just never got over to, and would explode in frustration and the worst thing was, if you really stuck to it and weathered a three hour storm (over the size or shape of pancakes, say) the NEXT time it happened, you'd have to do the same thing all over again -- he wouldn't learn from these events! And disciplining him didn't help eaither.

What did help was reading "The Explosive CHild" and learning to treat this difficulty switching gears as a developmental delay, recognizing what his present level of functioning was, and trying to deal with him as if he were a much younger child but teach him how to handle changes at that younger level and move him up the ladder of skills. This part was really hard because I got a lot of accusations from family that I was coddling and enabling his behavior, but I just ignored them because I could tell I was on the right track because I was seeing improvement. THings are so much better now -- he is 10, and also I think his brain has just matured. I'd say he was working more on the level of an 8 year old now in terms of his ability to be adaptable and switch gears, but that is so much easier to live with!

Not OP, but thanks for this very helpful post.

[Anonymous]

I'd say lots of signs of an ASD -- rigidity, special interests. It also sounds like your family has done what some families with kids with ASDs do which is accommodate bad behaviors because it seems so difficult to address them, but this just kicks the can down the road and its more difficult when they get older.

I would ignore 5:42. Yes, this is bad behavior but he really does have the signs of an ASD and you've gotten the diagnosis. I don't understand why you are confused when you've actually gotten the diagnosis, and a second opinion confirming it. It really sounds like you and your husband are just being passive in the face of all this and that doesn't serve your son's interests at all.

You need a developmental pediatrician to guide you through the appropriate interventions and you need a professional to assist you with behavior modification (with all due respect, a diet isn't going to fix this) because you have a lot to address and you need to do it carefully.

Just because your son has an AD it doesn't mean that you just let him behave in whatever manner he does. It means you have to step up and guide him so he will be able to function in the world as it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also OP -- you say two professionals have aid your child is on the spectrum -- so you actually have an autism diagnosis from a qualified professional? The rigidity and lack of empathy you describe definitely can be seen in autistic kids.

I agree with the above poster

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd say lots of signs of an ASD -- rigidity, special interests. It also sounds like your family has done what some families with kids with ASDs do which is accommodate bad behaviors because it seems so difficult to address them, but this just kicks the can down the road and its more difficult when they get older.

I would ignore 5:42. Yes, this is bad behavior but he really does have the signs of an ASD and you've gotten the diagnosis. I don't understand why you are confused when you've actually gotten the diagnosis, and a second opinion confirming it. It really sounds like you and your husband are just being passive in the face of all this and that doesn't serve your son's interests at all.

You need a developmental pediatrician to guide you through the appropriate interventions and you need a professional to assist you with behavior modification (with all due respect, a diet isn't going to fix this) because you have a lot to address and you need to do it carefully.

Just because your son has an AD it doesn't mean that you just let him behave in whatever manner he does. It means you have to step up and guide him so he will be able to function in the world as it is.

If you are out there, who ever posted this, you sound very knowledgable! PLEASE contact me. I don't know how w/o posting my email on here??

[Anonymous]

Wow - I thought OP's post sounded like pretty much a normal kid (albeit tired and grumpy). I find it amazing that people are labelling normal (not desirable) kid behavior like this. I'm with 05:42 on this.

Is he your only kid? Have you seen nieces and nephews so you can tell that kids complaining about how their dinner is served, wanting to have parents do everything ... etc. ... is normal? That's where you have to look at your own behavior. Walk away (like DH) when he makes those demands and start expecting him to do more himself. Just don't do the stuff. Say "well, daddy might serve your pancakes differently, but if you want them a certain way you'll have to do them yourself, or just accept the way I do them ... and next time say 'thank you, mom'". That's the conversation in our household ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS has been seen and tested by dozens of people. We only know that he's ADHD and has SPD. Two have said he's on the spectrum. He's eight yo.

Today I made breakfast for him (usually dad does). Dad makes him dollar pancakes. So I made him dollar pancakes too. Dad apparently lays the pancakes out in a swirly kind of design on the plate. I didn't do that. He told me I needed to do that because he's used to dad doing that for him. Then I also gave him slices of canteloupe and he said I should never put fruit on the same plate as his pancakes; it belongs in a separate bowl because that's the way he likes it. Then later this evening after he finished showering he asked Dad to dry him off with a towel. Dad refused saying he's old enough to do that on his own and walks out of the bathroom. He screams to dad, "Get back in here!!!" Do you want me to spray you?" He is holding the shower head in his hand. He has a total obsession (it's his perseveration) with electronic toys and other objects. He starts to take his toy "Operation" apart. I catch him and stop him from doing that. I tell him, "Wouldn't you like to donate that to a family with children who have no toys?" He looks guilty, but says no. I remind him that we donate thanksgiving baskets to the needy each year. I ask him if he enjoyed giving the baskets to charity or if he'd rather have the $45 in his pocket. He says he'd rather have the money for himself.

DS has lied and stolen before also from us and from others.

What's your take on this? What kind of disorder or condition makes a child so rude and inconsiderate?

This isn't special needs, the things in bold you have handled poorly and are allowing a child to walk all over your. You need to punish by timeouts or removing things he likes until he changes his attitude. It sounds like you have let this go on for years.

Guess what, DH did this as a child (taking apart electronics) because he had a fascination of how things work. His parents fostered his fascination and he is a computer engineer. This isn't special needs you need to adjust your parenting by timeouts / punishments for bad behaviors and fostering his fascinations to engage his mind.

[Anonymous]

Op, you haven't done anything wrong. But a behaviorist can help you find the right tools to reach your son. I recommend Dr. Robin Allen. She can Help you with all of your issues, including self care.

[Anonymous]

All of you who are saying that OP's child is just a "normal kid" who is behaving badly are doing her a real disservice. First of all, this child has been diagnosed -- TWICE by two different professionals -- as having an ASD. Presumably they had more to go by than just a paragraph on a message board, not to mention professional expertise. I am assuming that you don't have a child on the spectrum yourself because you don't recognize the rigidity and special interests.

And the reason you are doing OP a disservice is that you are feeding her denial. Read her post again. She has a diagnosis -- TWO, by TWO professionals -- and yet she is looking for ways to find something else going on, some other "condition" that would explain her child. And you are serving it up to her, because you think you know more than the professionals who have presumably done a full evaluation.

OP, ignore the posters who don't know what they are talking about and go back to to one of the professionals who diagnosed your child and ask him or her where to go from here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All of you who are saying that OP's child is just a "normal kid" who is behaving badly are doing her a real disservice. First of all, this child has been diagnosed -- TWICE by two different professionals -- as having an ASD. Presumably they had more to go by than just a paragraph on a message board, not to mention professional expertise. I am assuming that you don't have a child on the spectrum yourself because you don't recognize the rigidity and special interests.

And the reason you are doing OP a disservice is that you are feeding her denial. Read her post again. She has a diagnosis -- TWO, by TWO professionals -- and yet she is looking for ways to find something else going on, some other "condition" that would explain her child. And you are serving it up to her, because you think you know more than the professionals who have presumably done a full evaluation.

OP, ignore the posters who don't know what they are talking about and go back to to one of the professionals who diagnosed your child and ask him or her where to go from here.

OP said child had been seen by "dozens" of people. So most of the professionals don't agree with the ASD diagnosis. I'd wager that if you took any special needs child to two dozen "professionals" in this day and age, at least two would say the child is on the spectrum.


OP, it's quality, not quantity. Find the very best person to diagnose your child, and go from there. In any case, ASD or no, a child needs to be taught that being rude is not OK, not to a parent or anybody else. It will be socially isolating no matter the condition.