Study: "Discussions of D.C. public school options in an online forum" (yes, this one)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:In general, whenever you ask people to take a critical look at themselves- the reaction is defensive.

To ask DCUM users if a critique of DCUM users is accurate is naturally not going to end well. Asking people if they are in privileged bubble is not going to go well. Because if you are in a bubble, by definition you do not know that you are.

In general I have found many on this board to be totally blind to the realities of DC Public Schools and blind to your own motivations behind how you move in this space. Is it segregation- kinda sorta. But mostly in the way that we would all select calm.caring, and safe places for our own children.

I think the rub comes in with it is juxtaposed with the self identification as a liberal community with a strong NIMBY action plan.

I'm not at all blind to the fact that my kids have advantages that a lot of kids in DC don't have, including the ability to leave. I just reject to the pejorative framing of "privileged bubble." I grew up in a lot of ways not in a bubble, and it meant I saw and experienced stuff as a kid that I think most parents would want to protect their kids from. Yes, I want to keep my kids from that. But not enough that we're moving to Bethesda (or Tenleytown), just enough that we do put a lot of thought into how to, while following the rules in DC, make decisions that we think are good for our kids. Also, the schools I'm avoiding aren't schools which would be considered average or adequate in most parts of the country - it's not like I'm insisting that my kids have Mandarin or gifted classes and nothing else will do, I just want my kids to have an actual peer group and classes that reflect that.

But also, shouldn't you want to keep all kids from that? The study is pointing out that when white, upper income people act out of their individual self-interest, the result is racially segregated schools. Segregation perpetuates systemic racism, so either that's something that bothers you, or not.

1) My kids live in a racially integrated neighborhood and go to a racially integrated school.
2) Me sending my kids to Eastern is not going to give all kids the things I want for my kids, it's just going to be a bad experience for my kids. And if a big group of white parents decided to get together and send their kids there, the same people who criticize us for not doing that would now be criticizing us for that.
3) If DCPS is interested in making more schools integrated, they have many tools at their disposal. They choose not to do that, and I make my choices accordingly.

What a disrespectful and uneducated comment about Eastern's teachers and staff, not to mention their student body.

Eastern literally had ZERO percent of kids meet Math targets in the last PARCC, and 7% for English. There is no way anyone with options sends their kids there. No way. I think it's terrible the school performs so terribly, but that's not disrespectful.

Maybe using test scores as a barometer for the student experience is the problem.

Cool. Let's use something else. Half the kids were absent 21+ days in 2019-2020, and 70% were in the broader "truant" category of 10+ absences. It was 20% at Wilson.

https://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/publication/attachments/DCPS%20Annual%20Attendance%20Report%20SY%202019-2020.pdf

Sounds like your kid would get great small group instruction! Seriously, why do we think its okay to turn our back on schools with bad stats? You know what makes those stats better? Parents that clearly care this much start sending their kids to these schools.

And then if you're really successful at it, they make a podcast about how racist you are for starting a French program!

I'm not 'turning my back' on anything, because that implies that I am somehow responsible for the state of DCPS schools, and that my kids have some obligation to fix it. But I'm not and they don't- which is good, because they also can't. It's not like I want to move when we get to middle school if we don't lottery into a charter we like. That's not like, a fun or inexpensive thing for us. But my kids are actual people, and just like I don't consider my choice of where to work purely on the basis of 'how do I make society better even if it's terrible for me', neither am I going to treat their education like that. If DCPS cares about integrating a broader range of schools, they could do that in a heartbeat via different curricular choices. They are not, because they do not care. Why am I supposed to care more than they do?

Wow you don't live in a community do you but yet you claim to be in DC?

If DCPS offered different curricular choices (I'm sure you have looked at all the middle school ones, understand education pedagogy, etc) you would be thrilled to have your child get on a bus and go cross town to get to that becon on a hill that gets 5 stars and challenges them.

Your children and you are actually people and nothing you do affects anyone else.

I don't wish to send my children cross-town, I wish to send them to their zoned, EOTP neighborhood middle school and high school. Which, in my fantasy never-going-to-happen universe, now has actual, no-kidding test-in differentiation for their core academic courses. In the absence of that, we will figure out something else. Just like everyone else who has options and is invested in this does. If you disagree with that approach, you can try going out of your house and screaming, because everyone who hears you also is trying to make the best choices for their kids, and you will be doing just as good of a job of talking them out of it.

[Anonymous]

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jsteele wrote:

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jsteele wrote:

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jsteele wrote:Another huge flaw. On page 23 there is a section specifically looking at Brookland. It says this:

The conversations about Brookland schools on DC Urban Moms illustrate one mechanism by which this self-segregation occurs. Nearly three thousand forum conversations, almost one-fifth of the total, mention at least one Brookland elementary school, and total attention to these schools has grown over time. But DC Urban Moms participants focus heavily on a few schools in the neighborhood. On average, elementary schools in Brookland that are less than 50 percent Black are mentioned more than four times as often per year as schools that are more than 50 percent Black. Figure 8 plots this correlation.

On the face of it, this supports the argument that DCUMers are a bunch of Klan members. But, then look at which schools are being discussed. The frequently-mentioned schools are all charters. Charters are open to students regardless of where they live in the District. So, any of our posters might be interested in those schools. The less-talked-about schools are public and therefore have residency restrictions. Fewer of our posters have a reason to discuss those schools.

This data simply cannot be taken seriously.

Except that in Brookland, most of the in-bounds schools have enough open spaces to accept many if not most external applicants, so, while I totally and completely agree that this study is terrible, this particular point doesn't quite hold up.

More polite way of saying this point is wrong.

My point is not wrong. The assertion I quoted above about which Brookland school are mentioned more frequently appears to be the justification for this statement in the "Discussion" section of the report:

Even within a gentrify-ing neighborhood, and even when other local schools have similar test scores, the schools with more white students receive much more attention.

This again ignores the fact that the schools that received more attention are charter schools that don't have residency requirements. It is quite possible that a poster who is inbounds for a top DCPS school would be interested in one of the charters, but unlikely that the same poster would be interested in a Brookland DCPS. There is simply a larger pool of users who would be potentially interested in discussing the charter schools than there is for the DCPS schools. The only way such a comparison could be legitimate is if only mentions of the schools by Brookland residents were analyzed and that is not possible with the data available to the researchers.

Why would someone inbounds for a "top" DCPS school be interested in one of the charters? It's pretty funny how you're spinning a fantasy "larger pool" instead of admitting you're wrong.

Are you familiar with charters at all? Do you even have kids in these schools? People choose charters for a variety of reasons. Language immersion is a common one. Potentially, someone could choose Lee because they want a Montessori school. Do you really deny that there is a larger pool of people who might discuss charters than there is for a poorly-performing inbounds school? Just look at how many students attending charters live in other neighborhoods.

So now the Brookland inbounds schools are "poorly-performing" - Burroughs is a 4-star school, higher than the greatly-discussed Stokes PCS. By "poorly-performing" do you mean mostly Black? Or do you have some other metric to dismiss Burroughs as poorly-performing?

If it's only about charter vs inbound, then how come the majority-Black charters (like the 4-star DC Prep) in Brookland aren't discussed here?

DCPrep is a fine school. The real question is are the programs, teaching methods and student interactions and discourse in high at-risk, high performing schools best for all children? I attended a high performing schools in a high poverty area. The teachers were great, hard-working and very strict. That school got me into a low poverty, high performing high school. Completely different experiences. In the high at-risk (back then we said high poverty) school, the teachers spent a lot of time catching kids up and going over and over basic/foundation skills. There wasn't as much time for exploration, discussion, etc. In the low-poverty school, it was completely different and there was no intensive attention spent on others to catch up.

[Anonymous]

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jsteele wrote:

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Please do, since I'm already seeing this study get trotted out on neighborhood facebook as great scholarship.

I am considering writing a response. One irony I guess is that the report will probably generate more traffic to DCUM. Hopefully it won't be a bunch of racists coming to find out how to get into an all white school.

The racists would quickly discover that there aren't any all-white public schools in the DC system, not even close.

Um, doesn’t Janney come close, for one?

Yes, if by “all-white” you mean reflecting national averages.

It's a bit more. "White students, on average, attend a school in which 69% of the students are white" - from "Harming Our Common Future: America's Segregated Schools 65 Years after Brown".
At Janney, it's 74%, and the next-biggest group is Multiracial, which I would guess is also different.

Yes, and Janney (Key, Mann, Murch, Brent etc.) parents could move to the burbs, or a different part of the country, or go private in the District, to enroll their children in schools that are even more white.

This study is coming at the wrong jurisdiction and the wrong parents.

This is the problem I had with the "Nice White Parents" podcast as well- concentrating on a small number of white people who remain in the center jurisdictions, meanwhile 85-90% of the white kids in the region are in the suburbs. Many, many of those people are more explicit about their locational choices being based on school racial makeup (I have talked to some people in Fairfax who have heard these comments from neighbors, barely coded). Not saying white people in the District should be let off the hook- there is something interesting there about liberal hypocrisy (liberal in the streets, conservative in the sheets, so to speak) and about how far white people are really willing to go in terms of the racial makeup of their kids' school. But there are 90k kids in public school in the District, something like 15% are white- you are literally talking about less than 15,000 white kids. Total enrollment in the five closest school districts (PG, Arlington, Montgomery, Fairfax, Loudon) is 595,000, of which around 35% are white, so over 200,000 white kids in those public schools. Forest for the trees here.

There are some really unusual racial dynamics going on in this area- it has probably the largest middle and upper middle class black population of any metro area in the country. The District has almost zero poor white people. You have the ways the middle ring suburbs are changing and becoming more heavily Hispanic. The large Middle Eastern-American and Asian-American populations now in Fairfax and Loudon. School options/choice layer on to this. But it's gonna take a LOT more work and nuance to analyze all that.

Exactly. And I do think there is definitely some nuance in what makes UMC white parents think a school is acceptable. When you dig into it, you see that Beers Elementary and Miner Elementary have very, very similar PARCC scores. And yet, Beers is a total unknown to DCUM and most white parents wouldn't even consider it as an option, frankly in large part because it is black and in Ward 7. Whereas Miner is commonly discussed here as an acceptable option for ECE. Or is the lack of acceptance of school like Beers because there is no discussion of it on DCUM compared to Miner, which might actually indicate that the Brookings research is onto something?

Another aspect is the unrelenting escalation of parenting in general. In the past, a school where 25% of the kids are on-target in test scores might be considered just fine. Your kid will be at the top of the class, maybe a little bored, NBD. It's ELEMENTARY school. Now on DCUM you have parents insisting that "my kid has got to be in a cohort of high performers by 3rd grade!!!111!!!" I don't think that sentiment is largely or even mostly based on race (although there is some of that), but rather on the intensive parenting culture we have now and the sense that we have to fight for every single advantage. Where I disagree with the thrust of the Brookings paper is that this attitude by the privileged is somehow always harmful to the underprivileged. And if it is, how is policy going to effectively intervene? Unless you make giant societal interventions that make parents less anxious, like, say making college and housing actually affordable for the middle class ...

There are micro-moments where the "must maximize" culture of DCUM does probably hurt the underprivileged. Most notably, in boundary discussions where parents "lose" the school they believe they are entitled to. The collective freak-out over the idea of clustering Maury, Miner, and Payne was another one that surely did not reflect well on a group of parents that likely otherwise claim to be progressive. But that's the highly local exception, not the rule. Even if Maury parents could be browbeaten into clustering with Miner and Payne, that's THREE schools out of a total of how many? How is that going to help Wards 7 and 8?

So stupid. Beers is not acceptable because there is no way in f*ck I am commuting there to drop off my child and pick up every day as a single parent who works downtown.

Yeah but you have to couple this with real estate. The commute downtown from the Beers IB zone is likely faster than many, many commutes; and the housing stock is nice and affordable. Look at this cute one! https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/1652-Fort-Dupont-St-SE-20020/home/10138435

Honestly, if I didn't dislike being car-dependent, I would buy that one right now.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:In general, whenever you ask people to take a critical look at themselves- the reaction is defensive.

To ask DCUM users if a critique of DCUM users is accurate is naturally not going to end well. Asking people if they are in privileged bubble is not going to go well. Because if you are in a bubble, by definition you do not know that you are.

In general I have found many on this board to be totally blind to the realities of DC Public Schools and blind to your own motivations behind how you move in this space. Is it segregation- kinda sorta. But mostly in the way that we would all select calm.caring, and safe places for our own children.

I think the rub comes in with it is juxtaposed with the self identification as a liberal community with a strong NIMBY action plan.

I'm not at all blind to the fact that my kids have advantages that a lot of kids in DC don't have, including the ability to leave. I just reject to the pejorative framing of "privileged bubble." I grew up in a lot of ways not in a bubble, and it meant I saw and experienced stuff as a kid that I think most parents would want to protect their kids from. Yes, I want to keep my kids from that. But not enough that we're moving to Bethesda (or Tenleytown), just enough that we do put a lot of thought into how to, while following the rules in DC, make decisions that we think are good for our kids. Also, the schools I'm avoiding aren't schools which would be considered average or adequate in most parts of the country - it's not like I'm insisting that my kids have Mandarin or gifted classes and nothing else will do, I just want my kids to have an actual peer group and classes that reflect that.

But also, shouldn't you want to keep all kids from that? The study is pointing out that when white, upper income people act out of their individual self-interest, the result is racially segregated schools. Segregation perpetuates systemic racism, so either that's something that bothers you, or not.

1) My kids live in a racially integrated neighborhood and go to a racially integrated school.
2) Me sending my kids to Eastern is not going to give all kids the things I want for my kids, it's just going to be a bad experience for my kids. And if a big group of white parents decided to get together and send their kids there, the same people who criticize us for not doing that would now be criticizing us for that.
3) If DCPS is interested in making more schools integrated, they have many tools at their disposal. They choose not to do that, and I make my choices accordingly.

What a disrespectful and uneducated comment about Eastern's teachers and staff, not to mention their student body.

Eastern literally had ZERO percent of kids meet Math targets in the last PARCC, and 7% for English. There is no way anyone with options sends their kids there. No way. I think it's terrible the school performs so terribly, but that's not disrespectful.

Maybe using test scores as a barometer for the student experience is the problem.

Cool. Let's use something else. Half the kids were absent 21+ days in 2019-2020, and 70% were in the broader "truant" category of 10+ absences. It was 20% at Wilson.

https://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/publication/attachments/DCPS%20Annual%20Attendance%20Report%20SY%202019-2020.pdf

Sounds like your kid would get great small group instruction! Seriously, why do we think its okay to turn our back on schools with bad stats? You know what makes those stats better? Parents that clearly care this much start sending their kids to these schools.

I suspect the parents who have kids there would be highly insulted by your statement. Are you suggesting that white saviors are the solution?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:In general, whenever you ask people to take a critical look at themselves- the reaction is defensive.

To ask DCUM users if a critique of DCUM users is accurate is naturally not going to end well. Asking people if they are in privileged bubble is not going to go well. Because if you are in a bubble, by definition you do not know that you are.

In general I have found many on this board to be totally blind to the realities of DC Public Schools and blind to your own motivations behind how you move in this space. Is it segregation- kinda sorta. But mostly in the way that we would all select calm.caring, and safe places for our own children.

I think the rub comes in with it is juxtaposed with the self identification as a liberal community with a strong NIMBY action plan.

I'm not at all blind to the fact that my kids have advantages that a lot of kids in DC don't have, including the ability to leave. I just reject to the pejorative framing of "privileged bubble." I grew up in a lot of ways not in a bubble, and it meant I saw and experienced stuff as a kid that I think most parents would want to protect their kids from. Yes, I want to keep my kids from that. But not enough that we're moving to Bethesda (or Tenleytown), just enough that we do put a lot of thought into how to, while following the rules in DC, make decisions that we think are good for our kids. Also, the schools I'm avoiding aren't schools which would be considered average or adequate in most parts of the country - it's not like I'm insisting that my kids have Mandarin or gifted classes and nothing else will do, I just want my kids to have an actual peer group and classes that reflect that.

But also, shouldn't you want to keep all kids from that? The study is pointing out that when white, upper income people act out of their individual self-interest, the result is racially segregated schools. Segregation perpetuates systemic racism, so either that's something that bothers you, or not.

1) My kids live in a racially integrated neighborhood and go to a racially integrated school.
2) Me sending my kids to Eastern is not going to give all kids the things I want for my kids, it's just going to be a bad experience for my kids. And if a big group of white parents decided to get together and send their kids there, the same people who criticize us for not doing that would now be criticizing us for that.
3) If DCPS is interested in making more schools integrated, they have many tools at their disposal. They choose not to do that, and I make my choices accordingly.

What a disrespectful and uneducated comment about Eastern's teachers and staff, not to mention their student body.

Eastern literally had ZERO percent of kids meet Math targets in the last PARCC, and 7% for English. There is no way anyone with options sends their kids there. No way. I think it's terrible the school performs so terribly, but that's not disrespectful.

Maybe using test scores as a barometer for the student experience is the problem.

Cool. Let's use something else. Half the kids were absent 21+ days in 2019-2020, and 70% were in the broader "truant" category of 10+ absences. It was 20% at Wilson.

https://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/publication/attachments/DCPS%20Annual%20Attendance%20Report%20SY%202019-2020.pdf

Sounds like your kid would get great small group instruction! Seriously, why do we think its okay to turn our back on schools with bad stats? You know what makes those stats better? Parents that clearly care this much start sending their kids to these schools.

I suspect the parents who have kids there would be highly insulted by your statement. Are you suggesting that white saviors are the solution?

and it also suggests the Eastern parents don’t care. I bet they care a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In general, whenever you ask people to take a critical look at themselves- the reaction is defensive.

To ask DCUM users if a critique of DCUM users is accurate is naturally not going to end well. Asking people if they are in privileged bubble is not going to go well. Because if you are in a bubble, by definition you do not know that you are.

In general I have found many on this board to be totally blind to the realities of DC Public Schools and blind to your own motivations behind how you move in this space. Is it segregation- kinda sorta. But mostly in the way that we would all select calm.caring, and safe places for our own children.

I think the rub comes in with it is juxtaposed with the self identification as a liberal community with a strong NIMBY action plan.

I'm not at all blind to the fact that my kids have advantages that a lot of kids in DC don't have, including the ability to leave. I just reject to the pejorative framing of "privileged bubble." I grew up in a lot of ways not in a bubble, and it meant I saw and experienced stuff as a kid that I think most parents would want to protect their kids from. Yes, I want to keep my kids from that. But not enough that we're moving to Bethesda (or Tenleytown), just enough that we do put a lot of thought into how to, while following the rules in DC, make decisions that we think are good for our kids. Also, the schools I'm avoiding aren't schools which would be considered average or adequate in most parts of the country - it's not like I'm insisting that my kids have Mandarin or gifted classes and nothing else will do, I just want my kids to have an actual peer group and classes that reflect that.

But also, shouldn't you want to keep all kids from that? The study is pointing out that when white, upper income people act out of their individual self-interest, the result is racially segregated schools. Segregation perpetuates systemic racism, so either that's something that bothers you, or not.

1) My kids live in a racially integrated neighborhood and go to a racially integrated school.
2) Me sending my kids to Eastern is not going to give all kids the things I want for my kids, it's just going to be a bad experience for my kids. And if a big group of white parents decided to get together and send their kids there, the same people who criticize us for not doing that would now be criticizing us for that.
3) If DCPS is interested in making more schools integrated, they have many tools at their disposal. They choose not to do that, and I make my choices accordingly.

What a disrespectful and uneducated comment about Eastern's teachers and staff, not to mention their student body.

Eastern literally had ZERO percent of kids meet Math targets in the last PARCC, and 7% for English. There is no way anyone with options sends their kids there. No way. I think it's terrible the school performs so terribly, but that's not disrespectful.

Maybe using test scores as a barometer for the student experience is the problem.

Cool. Let's use something else. Half the kids were absent 21+ days in 2019-2020, and 70% were in the broader "truant" category of 10+ absences. It was 20% at Wilson.

https://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/publication/attachments/DCPS%20Annual%20Attendance%20Report%20SY%202019-2020.pdf

Sounds like your kid would get great small group instruction! Seriously, why do we think its okay to turn our back on schools with bad stats? You know what makes those stats better? Parents that clearly care this much start sending their kids to these schools.

I suspect the parents who have kids there would be highly insulted by your statement. Are you suggesting that white saviors are the solution?

and it also suggests the Eastern parents don’t care. I bet they care a lot.

Yes, that was my point. Insulting.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Another huge flaw. On page 23 there is a section specifically looking at Brookland. It says this:

The conversations about Brookland schools on DC Urban Moms illustrate one mechanism by which this self-segregation occurs. Nearly three thousand forum conversations, almost one-fifth of the total, mention at least one Brookland elementary school, and total attention to these schools has grown over time. But DC Urban Moms participants focus heavily on a few schools in the neighborhood. On average, elementary schools in Brookland that are less than 50 percent Black are mentioned more than four times as often per year as schools that are more than 50 percent Black. Figure 8 plots this correlation.

On the face of it, this supports the argument that DCUMers are a bunch of Klan members. But, then look at which schools are being discussed. The frequently-mentioned schools are all charters. Charters are open to students regardless of where they live in the District. So, any of our posters might be interested in those schools. The less-talked-about schools are public and therefore have residency restrictions. Fewer of our posters have a reason to discuss those schools.

This data simply cannot be taken seriously.

Except that in Brookland, most of the in-bounds schools have enough open spaces to accept many if not most external applicants, so, while I totally and completely agree that this study is terrible, this particular point doesn't quite hold up.

More polite way of saying this point is wrong.

My point is not wrong. The assertion I quoted above about which Brookland school are mentioned more frequently appears to be the justification for this statement in the "Discussion" section of the report:

Even within a gentrify-ing neighborhood, and even when other local schools have similar test scores, the schools with more white students receive much more attention.

This again ignores the fact that the schools that received more attention are charter schools that don't have residency requirements. It is quite possible that a poster who is inbounds for a top DCPS school would be interested in one of the charters, but unlikely that the same poster would be interested in a Brookland DCPS. There is simply a larger pool of users who would be potentially interested in discussing the charter schools than there is for the DCPS schools. The only way such a comparison could be legitimate is if only mentions of the schools by Brookland residents were analyzed and that is not possible with the data available to the researchers.

Plus a substantial chunk (that's a technical term) of the conversations about Lee were about whether kids there really do eat quinoa with smiles on their faces.

But seriously, it's not surprising that a brand new school that opened during the study period would get a lot of talk anyway, much of it before there was anything substantial to say anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In general, whenever you ask people to take a critical look at themselves- the reaction is defensive.

To ask DCUM users if a critique of DCUM users is accurate is naturally not going to end well. Asking people if they are in privileged bubble is not going to go well. Because if you are in a bubble, by definition you do not know that you are.

In general I have found many on this board to be totally blind to the realities of DC Public Schools and blind to your own motivations behind how you move in this space. Is it segregation- kinda sorta. But mostly in the way that we would all select calm.caring, and safe places for our own children.

I think the rub comes in with it is juxtaposed with the self identification as a liberal community with a strong NIMBY action plan.

I'm not at all blind to the fact that my kids have advantages that a lot of kids in DC don't have, including the ability to leave. I just reject to the pejorative framing of "privileged bubble." I grew up in a lot of ways not in a bubble, and it meant I saw and experienced stuff as a kid that I think most parents would want to protect their kids from. Yes, I want to keep my kids from that. But not enough that we're moving to Bethesda (or Tenleytown), just enough that we do put a lot of thought into how to, while following the rules in DC, make decisions that we think are good for our kids. Also, the schools I'm avoiding aren't schools which would be considered average or adequate in most parts of the country - it's not like I'm insisting that my kids have Mandarin or gifted classes and nothing else will do, I just want my kids to have an actual peer group and classes that reflect that.

But also, shouldn't you want to keep all kids from that? The study is pointing out that when white, upper income people act out of their individual self-interest, the result is racially segregated schools. Segregation perpetuates systemic racism, so either that's something that bothers you, or not.

1) My kids live in a racially integrated neighborhood and go to a racially integrated school.
2) Me sending my kids to Eastern is not going to give all kids the things I want for my kids, it's just going to be a bad experience for my kids. And if a big group of white parents decided to get together and send their kids there, the same people who criticize us for not doing that would now be criticizing us for that.
3) If DCPS is interested in making more schools integrated, they have many tools at their disposal. They choose not to do that, and I make my choices accordingly.

What a disrespectful and uneducated comment about Eastern's teachers and staff, not to mention their student body.

Eastern literally had ZERO percent of kids meet Math targets in the last PARCC, and 7% for English. There is no way anyone with options sends their kids there. No way. I think it's terrible the school performs so terribly, but that's not disrespectful.

Maybe using test scores as a barometer for the student experience is the problem.

Cool. Let's use something else. Half the kids were absent 21+ days in 2019-2020, and 70% were in the broader "truant" category of 10+ absences. It was 20% at Wilson.

https://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/publication/attachments/DCPS%20Annual%20Attendance%20Report%20SY%202019-2020.pdf

Sounds like your kid would get great small group instruction! Seriously, why do we think its okay to turn our back on schools with bad stats? You know what makes those stats better? Parents that clearly care this much start sending their kids to these schools.

I suspect the parents who have kids there would be highly insulted by your statement. Are you suggesting that white saviors are the solution?

and it also suggests the Eastern parents don’t care. I bet they care a lot.

Sure, but sometimes schools are bad because neither the students nor the parents really care all that much about school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is funny. The true wealthy people don't even bother with DC public schools. They go private.

This is wealthy people of all skin colors everywhere. It just so happens that most wealthy people are white.

Btw I’m a black woman so don’t come for me.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bigger issue here is probably this:

DC is unusual in that it attracts a lot of high-achieving people from across the country -- the sort who got good grades in school, who went to prestigious colleges and who now want (expect) the same for their kids.

But the reality of DC is that most schools here, beyond elementary years, are just bad. Some are unbelievably bad. The city of DC has a very high tolerance for very low performing schools.

I think that's where a lot of the tension comes from. It's not race. It's more of a class issue.

IME, they are inextricably intertwined. I’m not sure if anywhere else in the country has almost complete separation by race and class—white, affluent newcomers on the one hand and black, largely poor/working class DC natives on the other. For example, I’ve talked to plenty of black middle/UMC Families like my own who’ve had assumptions made about them based on this state of affairs, by both teachers/staff and white families. There wouldn’t be as much tension if it were class alone that mattered.

I noticed when DCUM first started that UMC black families are frequently left out of the conversation. This report does that too by assuming that anyone wanting to get into one of the popular schools is white. I keep coming back to this point that the entire topic is complex and nuanced. It cannot be adequately addressed why a word frequency analysis.

This is absolutely true and there are all kinds of things you learn if you are around long enough and take the time to talk with people and learn. Am not from the area, so I was surprised at how popular the Catholic schools were with black families- until I figured out that for middle class black families historically, the Catholic schools were often the only option if they didn't want their kids at the segregated schools. Also an important path for families with some money to afford private school, but not enough to splash out $40k/year. Also learned over time that there are plenty of black families who have no interest in living in the District, seeing it much the same as white families who live in the suburbs. DC and Atlanta have a lot of similarities in that way- would love to have someone take a look at those two metro areas and how they compare/are different from other areas.

[Anonymous]

what is news? A group of self-selecting women are talking about the schools either in their own neighborhoods. there are so many online groups. Including Mocha Moms etc. that are a collective voice of women of color.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now the Brookland inbounds schools are "poorly-performing" - Burroughs is a 4-star school, higher than the greatly-discussed Stokes PCS. By "poorly-performing" do you mean mostly Black? Or do you have some other metric to dismiss Burroughs as poorly-performing?

If it's only about charter vs inbound, then how come the majority-Black charters (like the 4-star DC Prep) in Brookland aren't discussed here?

Guess what? According to the report, Burroughs gets discussed here almost as much as Shining Stars. So there is interest in the higher-performing schools. How much time have you spent discussing low-performing schools outside your neighborhood? I don't know a lot about DC Prep but I thought that it had a specific mission to provide for underserved communities, which doesn't really describe our user base.

"almost as much" ha ha

"underserved communities, which doesn't really describe our user base" yeah that's the whole point

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:considering how uppity people get about being called Karen it all seems so true

and in a blind study they wouldn't contact the owner of a message board to find out what is public.

Can't decide which is worse: your casual sexism and racism or your hysterical lack of self awareness in using the term uppity.

[Anonymous]

NP. Can't decide which is worse, how seriously you petty, sanctimonious guys take yourselves or your endless tit-for-tat labelling/name-calling on these threads.

Wishing Jeff luck in the WaPo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bigger issue here is probably this:

DC is unusual in that it attracts a lot of high-achieving people from across the country -- the sort who got good grades in school, who went to prestigious colleges and who now want (expect) the same for their kids.

But the reality of DC is that most schools here, beyond elementary years, are just bad. Some are unbelievably bad. The city of DC has a very high tolerance for very low performing schools.

I think that's where a lot of the tension comes from. It's not race. It's more of a class issue.

IME, they are inextricably intertwined. I’m not sure if anywhere else in the country has almost complete separation by race and class—white, affluent newcomers on the one hand and black, largely poor/working class DC natives on the other. For example, I’ve talked to plenty of black middle/UMC Families like my own who’ve had assumptions made about them based on this state of affairs, by both teachers/staff and white families. There wouldn’t be as much tension if it were class alone that mattered.

I noticed when DCUM first started that UMC black families are frequently left out of the conversation. This report does that too by assuming that anyone wanting to get into one of the popular schools is white. I keep coming back to this point that the entire topic is complex and nuanced. It cannot be adequately addressed why a word frequency analysis.

This is absolutely true and there are all kinds of things you learn if you are around long enough and take the time to talk with people and learn. Am not from the area, so I was surprised at how popular the Catholic schools were with black families- until I figured out that for middle class black families historically, the Catholic schools were often the only option if they didn't want their kids at the segregated schools. Also an important path for families with some money to afford private school, but not enough to splash out $40k/year. Also learned over time that there are plenty of black families who have no interest in living in the District, seeing it much the same as white families who live in the suburbs. DC and Atlanta have a lot of similarities in that way- would love to have someone take a look at those two metro areas and how they compare/are different from other areas.

But at least for the main Catholic School in Brookland (neighborhood discussed in the study) that is a segregated choice. It's almost all Black students, at least as of a couple years ago when I toured. Sounds like a great school, so not throwing it shade, it's just a very complicated dynamic.