J.K. Rowling’s post on trans-identity and modern misogyny

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why she keeps wading into this particular issue. It’s coming across as a hangup or fixation. Does she not have 400 things to do?

She seems to think that the growing acceptance of trans rights is negatively affecting biological women’s place in society and also her involvement with domestic and abuse charities. Though I’m less clear on how that works for the second one.

https://www.philanthropy-impact.org/inspiration/personal-stories/jk-rowling-obe

Time for the older women to have several seats if they can't understand intersectional is the way things are now.

How disgustingly dismissive and insulting to women this is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I really don’t understand what’s offensive about that statement.

I have seen friends’ occasionally post about blocking her and how she’s transphobic. Because I was never a Harry Potter fan I had never followed her very closely. It’s very disappointing to now read her statement and know this is what all the anger was about. Really? Seriously?

She literally denies the existence of trans people. She will not acknowledge that gender =/= sex and a trans woman in her mind is not a woman.

The vast majority of people do not believe trans women are literally women. They are trans, and that is fine. They can dress how they want, present as they want, have surgeries and get the hormones they want. But that doesn’t make them literally women, and that’s essentially all that JK has said.

This. I'm as liberal as they come and every woman I know feels this way.

I can't imagine any well adjusted woman NOT feeling this way. The only women pushing the idea that trans women are women in every way and deserve to be in every situation and conversation that a woman can be in are women with some sort of agenda. Period.

Trans women should NOT be in rape crisis centers or domestic violence shelters. They should NOT be going into women's waxing salons and displaying their male genitalia in some poor woman's face and then expecting there to not be an issue. They should NOT be competing against women in women's sports. Just use your brain a little bit. It's not rocket science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why she keeps wading into this particular issue. It’s coming across as a hangup or fixation. Does she not have 400 things to do?

She seems to think that the growing acceptance of trans rights is negatively affecting biological women’s place in society and also her involvement with domestic and abuse charities. Though I’m less clear on how that works for the second one.

https://www.philanthropy-impact.org/inspiration/personal-stories/jk-rowling-obe

Time for the older women to have several seats if they can't understand intersectional is the way things are now.

It seems that it's the younger feminists who don't understand that.

Intersectional means seeing the differences and advocating for what each group needs. It means acknowledging that black women and latina women and gay women and transgendered women all need specific advocacy and that we lift one another up in support of that advocacy. It SHOULD mean acknowledging the realities of biological sex and calling them what they are, women's issues.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does giving Trans women rights diminish biological women's rights?

We're all in the same group as "female." I don't care if trans women want to join. The more the merrier.

THIS

It doesn't. I think JKR is dumb to make this about the bathrooms. I don't care about trans people advocating for rights at all. They should! They should absolutely do that and feminists should support them as an intersectional partner for advocating for equality.

Changing language so women don't exist is the issue. And it is an issue that trans people would I assume not like either, as they would then not have language to describe their own vision of their gender.

I don't think the issue is about bathroom as much as it is safe space. JK Rowling is a sexual and domestic abuse servivor and supports shelters for women who have been abused. Her concern is that under Scottish law a man can show up and state they are a women no matter if the person has not had any surgery, not taking hormones, not doing anything to identify as a women but merely state they are a woman. Men historically have oppressed women, she is concerned safe spaces for women are being taken away.

This is a specious argument as trans individuals are MULTIPLE times more likely to experience violence for being trans than they are to inflict it.

So in Vancouver, a rape crisis center had only women volunteers answer calls to their hotline. They understood that many women would not feel safe talking to a man about their experiences being raped. A trans woman wanted to be one of those volunteers. The center refused, as she still would sound male on the phone. She was offered other volunteer opportunities that would not put her in contact with rape victims, but she was not happy with that, sued the center, and got them defunded for only serving and working with people who are born women. These are the outcomes of laws that let people legally change their gender identity. I think it’s a reasonable thing to be concerned about these sorts of outcomes. Do you disagree with that?

I think a) this is an incredibly rare circumstance that b) has nothing to do with Jo’s garbage and c) discrimination is discrimination. A woman with a deep voice can’t work there?

This is the problem.

In the Vancouver Rape Relief case it wasn’t even about employment! It was about one trans woman (who presented as male) wanting to volunteer directly with rape victims. The shelter’s mission is to create a safe space for women and they want female-only volunteers for that reason. I think only the most asinine of people would force a rape victim to tell her story to someone who looks like a man and triggers fear under the banner of not discriminating against trans-women. If you’re going that route, isn’t this discrimination against men? Shouldn’t they have the right to volunteer in women’s shelters too?

It’s exactly stuff like this that JK Rowling was talking about when she said the trans movement has the potential to destroy safe spaces for biological women.

It happens on every forum where this is discussed. Eventually "menstruating women" are denigrated in the posts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am deeply saddened by Rowling’s essay, which unfortunately and ironically comes during pride month. In fact, I’m weeping as a write this. I have a wonderful, kind teen trans daughter. Rowling has no idea how hard it is for kids like mine. Suicide and depression are significantly higher, and discrimination, even murder, is always a threat. My daughter wouldn’t choose to be any gender other than the one she was physically born into if it was any kind of choice. It’s just not. She is a girl and that’s that. She is not a threat to women in any way, she just wants to be seen for what she knows in her soul to be - a girl. Even as her mother I cannot claim to understand gender dysphoria, but I do know that I love my child no matter what and I hope she will be happy and safe. Please, for her sake, and the trans community, be compassionate. The struggles they face go far beyond whether a cis woman can’t deal with sharing a bathroom.

This is pure hysteria. No one is saying your daughter shouldn't be supported. No one is advocating a lack of compassion. It is more than the bathroom issue and if you step away from reading only twitter posts maybe you would be more compassionate to JK. She does very much have an idea of how hard it is. No one is saying you shouldn't love you child. This is just crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I really don’t understand what’s offensive about that statement.

I have seen friends’ occasionally post about blocking her and how she’s transphobic. Because I was never a Harry Potter fan I had never followed her very closely. It’s very disappointing to now read her statement and know this is what all the anger was about. Really? Seriously?

She literally denies the existence of trans people. She will not acknowledge that gender =/= sex and a trans woman in her mind is not a woman.

The vast majority of people do not believe trans women are literally women. They are trans, and that is fine. They can dress how they want, present as they want, have surgeries and get the hormones they want. But that doesn’t make them literally women, and that’s essentially all that JK has said.

This. I'm as liberal as they come and every woman I know feels this way.

[phone]

Can we end this thread now?

I can't imagine any well adjusted woman NOT feeling this way. The only women pushing the idea that trans women are women in every way and deserve to be in every situation and conversation that a woman can be in are women with some sort of agenda. Period.

Trans women should NOT be in rape crisis centers or domestic violence shelters. They should NOT be going into women's waxing salons and displaying their male genitalia in some poor woman's face and then expecting there to not be an issue. They should NOT be competing against women in women's sports. Just use your brain a little bit. It's not rocket science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I really don’t understand what’s offensive about that statement.

I have seen friends’ occasionally post about blocking her and how she’s transphobic. Because I was never a Harry Potter fan I had never followed her very closely. It’s very disappointing to now read her statement and know this is what all the anger was about. Really? Seriously?

She literally denies the existence of trans people. She will not acknowledge that gender =/= sex and a trans woman in her mind is not a woman.

I’m not sure that is what she is saying. But why does it matter what she thinks? This seems to be about thought-control. Is it not sufficient that someone states that they think that trans people should not be discriminated against? Why is it necessary that they *believe* that a trans woman is, in fact, genetically female? If you believe yourself to be female, despite the presence of male genitals on your body, that’s fine. But, if someone else is willing to accept & respect the fact that you live as a woman, why is it so important that they actually *believe* that it’s true?

[Anonymous]

The development and maturation of the prefrontal cortex occurs primarily during adolescence and is fully accomplished at the age of 25 years. The development of the prefrontal cortex is very important for complex behavioral performance, as this region of the brain helps accomplish executive brain functions. So 18 is not acceptable either. That’s just a number assigned by politicians when they wanted to increase their vote bank. The pre frontal cortex is not fully developed till 25. So allowing humans who will not be absolutely sure of their choices in life before 25 to choose elective surgery, is just one of the things I support her on.
Also what will it take? A serial killer to get a gender recognition certificate to go all Jack the Ripper on women in their safe spaces for this to be revisited and repented? This is genuinely a scary ‘woke’ situation. 100% support for adult transitioning by choice, of course! Just let’s not be the sacrificial lambs again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I really don’t understand what’s offensive about that statement.

I have seen friends’ occasionally post about blocking her and how she’s transphobic. Because I was never a Harry Potter fan I had never followed her very closely. It’s very disappointing to now read her statement and know this is what all the anger was about. Really? Seriously?

She literally denies the existence of trans people. She will not acknowledge that gender =/= sex and a trans woman in her mind is not a woman.

I’m not sure that is what she is saying. But why does it matter what she thinks? This seems to be about thought-control. Is it not sufficient that someone states that they think that trans people should not be discriminated against? Why is it necessary that they *believe* that a trans woman is, in fact, genetically female? If you believe yourself to be female, despite the presence of male genitals on your body, that’s fine. But, if someone else is willing to accept & respect the fact that you live as a woman, why is it so important that they actually *believe* that it’s true?

If she wants to believe it, whatever. What I have an issue with and what most people have an issue with is she has a MASSIVE platform she is choosing to use to harm trans people in PRIDE month. She’s also a children’s book author. Like teachers, children’s book authors have a duty to not harm children. This is so hurtful and offensive to so many of her fans, many of whom are LGBTQ and some who may be trans. She can think whatever she wants but taking PRIDE month to air her grievances against trans people is awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s like being born a female and liking pink and expressing femininity is something bad. Like it needs to be purged and erased. Don’t do his to me. Don’t do this to the billions of women who think this way around the world. Women are still inunde el p,aging fields here. Heck we still don’t even have paid maternity leave in the freaking United States! Unlike some other countries. We get no propriety in society at all.

I accept you, trans or whatever you are. I love you. I admire you. I see you. But you must show the same regard to me. And also listen to the points here about how totally unfair it is to compete in our space, when we have struggle for so long to carve out our space, and gain some sense of traction in society.

How can you think trans women DON’T see and feel those same struggles as we do? Do you think they didn’t face struggles of their own growing up in an body they felt wasn’t theirs? That they didn’t face discrimination for who they are? Amazing you think YOUR womanhood is threatened or discounted by theirs.

Okay explain to me then why they don't want cis-women playing trans roles, you can't have it both ways, the struggle is not the same. And how anyone can support Jenner getting Woman of the Year, who is still a republican and before transitioning had never come out and supported LGBTQ issues is beyond me. She should have refused the award and I quote in acceptance speech, "“The hardest part about being a woman is figuring out what to wear.” F$$$ Y$$

Caitlin Jenner winning time woman of the year is not what anybody here was arguing for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s like being born a female and liking pink and expressing femininity is something bad. Like it needs to be purged and erased. Don’t do his to me. Don’t do this to the billions of women who think this way around the world. Women are still inunde el p,aging fields here. Heck we still don’t even have paid maternity leave in the freaking United States! Unlike some other countries. We get no propriety in society at all.

I accept you, trans or whatever you are. I love you. I admire you. I see you. But you must show the same regard to me. And also listen to the points here about how totally unfair it is to compete in our space, when we have struggle for so long to carve out our space, and gain some sense of traction in society.

How can you think trans women DON’T see and feel those same struggles as we do? Do you think they didn’t face struggles of their own growing up in an body they felt wasn’t theirs? That they didn’t face discrimination for who they are? Amazing you think YOUR womanhood is threatened or discounted by theirs.

Okay explain to me then why they don't want cis-women playing trans roles, you can't have it both ways, the struggle is not the same. And how anyone can support Jenner getting Woman of the Year, who is still a republican and before transitioning had never come out and supported LGBTQ issues is beyond me. She should have refused the award and I quote in acceptance speech, "“The hardest part about being a woman is figuring out what to wear.” F$$$ Y$$

Ugh, that just trivializes women. Jenner became a misogynist caricature of what men think women are. No, wearing heels and makeup and getting a boob job won't make you a woman. It is offensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone else read it? It’s certainly well-thought out. She essentially says she’s spent 3 years studying the concept of trans identity and while she supports it -

a) she doesn’t think the rights of women who sexually identify as female should be diminished,

b) young adults (under 18) should not be allowed gender reassignment surgery and even adults need to have more rigorous standards for completion since its irreversible, and

c) trans being a identity more than a sexuality is subject to groupthink which is why it’s exploded in culture recently.

https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

To me, this is the equivalent of All Lives Matter. By promoting awareness of and requesting protection for trans women, no one is saying that cis women are worth any less.

To me it is actually trans people doing that to women's rights, not vice versa. I am VERY pro LGBTQ and fully fully believe in their ability to live freely. But I do not want have women's rights and Trans rights under the same umbrella. Gay rights didn't want to be under the same umbrella as women's rights because they are different things. By trying to combine women's rights and trans rights (which, again, both are worthy causes deserving of public support) you are, by definition, obfuscating many women's rights that derive specifically from female anatomy (ie, abortion rights).

I am new to this issue and just read through this thread. I appreciate this post.
It sounds like what you are saying is that women’s rights and trans rights should be considered separate issues, and there should be some recognition of where they do not overlap, and also where they may directly oppose each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I really don’t understand what’s offensive about that statement.

I have seen friends’ occasionally post about blocking her and how she’s transphobic. Because I was never a Harry Potter fan I had never followed her very closely. It’s very disappointing to now read her statement and know this is what all the anger was about. Really? Seriously?

She literally denies the existence of trans people. She will not acknowledge that gender =/= sex and a trans woman in her mind is not a woman.

The vast majority of people do not believe trans women are literally women. They are trans, and that is fine. They can dress how they want, present as they want, have surgeries and get the hormones they want. But that doesn’t make them literally women, and that’s essentially all that JK has said.

This. I'm as liberal as they come and every woman I know feels this way.

I can't imagine any well adjusted woman NOT feeling this way. The only women pushing the idea that trans women are women in every way and deserve to be in every situation and conversation that a woman can be in are women with some sort of agenda. Period.

Trans women should NOT be in rape crisis centers or domestic violence shelters. They should NOT be going into women's waxing salons and displaying their male genitalia in some poor woman's face and then expecting there to not be an issue. They should NOT be competing against women in women's sports. Just use your brain a little bit. It's not rocket science.

This right here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I really don’t understand what’s offensive about that statement.

I have seen friends’ occasionally post about blocking her and how she’s transphobic. Because I was never a Harry Potter fan I had never followed her very closely. It’s very disappointing to now read her statement and know this is what all the anger was about. Really? Seriously?

She literally denies the existence of trans people. She will not acknowledge that gender =/= sex and a trans woman in her mind is not a woman.

The vast majority of people do not believe trans women are literally women. They are trans, and that is fine. They can dress how they want, present as they want, have surgeries and get the hormones they want. But that doesn’t make them literally women, and that’s essentially all that JK has said.

This. I'm as liberal as they come and every woman I know feels this way.

I guess you don’t know me because I don’t feel this way.

+1

And you don’t know many of my friends and family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am deeply saddened by Rowling’s essay, which unfortunately and ironically comes during pride month. In fact, I’m weeping as a write this. I have a wonderful, kind teen trans daughter. Rowling has no idea how hard it is for kids like mine. Suicide and depression are significantly higher, and discrimination, even murder, is always a threat. My daughter wouldn’t choose to be any gender other than the one she was physically born into if it was any kind of choice. It’s just not. She is a girl and that’s that. She is not a threat to women in any way, she just wants to be seen for what she knows in her soul to be - a girl. Even as her mother I cannot claim to understand gender dysphoria, but I do know that I love my child no matter what and I hope she will be happy and safe. Please, for her sake, and the trans community, be compassionate. The struggles they face go far beyond whether a cis woman can’t deal with sharing a bathroom.

I don’t understand why some people can be so hateful and venomous to others.