“Colleges That Change Lives”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:P.S. I’m sure a response will be, “you just didn’t get into an Ivy, so you rationalized your decision to attend a CTCL school.”

I applied to four colleges and got into them all, including an Ivy. I just could not see myself there and happy.

Then why did you apply? I don't believe you . . .

Haha. You weren’t the only one. My HS counselor was aghast. I applied following his advice. This was a million years ago, keep in mind. I was a 1st gen college student and my parents didn’t really have any input except, “do what you think is right.” The HS counselor took a cookie cutter approach to giving advice. This was a big public HS. I found my small college on my own and he suggested I apply to the state school, a mid-sized private, and the Ivy he thought I might have a chance of getting in. I did have the opportunity to visit all four campuses. The state school was too huge and overwhelming for me at the time. Also, very strong frat culture. Didn’t like that. The mid-sized school was okay, but the students seemed too conventional and, I don’t know, there was just no excitement for me. Remember, this is 16-17 year old me going on these tours. The Ivy seemed depressing to me. I didn’t like the other parents on the tour bragging about their kids. It left a negative impression. And the campus seemed
Comes and unwelcoming. I felt like Goldilocks when I visited the CTCL campus and talked to the faculty and students. I felt “just right.”

The HS counselor wanted to blow out his brains. Luckily my parents were supportive. And as I mentioned before, I ultimately ended up at the same place my Ivy-educated spouse did. It just...worked for me.

This doesn't sound like "cookie-cutter" "big public HS" counselor advice at all. You're making this up.

I agree that there is some BS going on in this thread. Too many oh so convenient and immediate responses from the CTCL boosters that sound way too similar and are basically the CTCL talking points. I’ve been on DCUM long enough to remember how a certain DC area private school was busted on here for sock puppeting from their marketing person and this sort of has the same stink to it.

I've posted a few times on this thread about my experiences with CTCL in the college search process for my kid and I'm also the one who posted that I found the hs counselor story plausible because it was similar to my own college counseling experience 25 years back. I'm not a marketer/shill. I think it's odd that you are monitoring a thread for a list of schools you don't like and then insisting that anybody who claims to have found the list helpful, is thinking about any of the schools or went to one of these schools is being fooled, lying or paid for their efforts.

[Anonymous]

Why can't you people believe that students and parents affiliated with CTCL's are genuinely happy with their choice, and the opportunities it offered them.

Give that some thought, if you have more than knee-jerk responses to anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting, PP, but someone close to me did almost exactly what you just described with a science degree - from UVA.

Right, UVA where there are 16,000 undergraduates, the professors don’t know their students, small group tutorials taught by grad students and incredibly competitive atmosphere. I’ve got two there now. Their brother who went to a CTCL school got a much more personalized education, which is what was best for him. The 2 at Uva are happy but sometimes wonder if they would have been better off at a much smaller college.

Well, considering that your two at UVA attending a school where almost 90% of the students graduate in four years - much higher than any CTCL - I’d say it’s pretty obvious that the typical student is happier there than a CTCL school. Your kids are outliers.

There are probably several factors correlated with 4 year graduation rate. Student happiness is probably one, but academic ability is as well. It is also tougher to graduate from a difficult/STEM heavy school in 4 years (MIT has a lower 4 year graduation rate of 81%, for instance). At schools like Stanford (76%, some also are delayed as they work with startups, etc.).

[Anonymous]

Oh I thought this going to be about MIT...it definitely changed my life. To PPs point I knew several people that took medical breaks. Think about it even at your best MIT is a very very tough place. Lose your Dad? Family issues? People have to find themselves before going back. Almost everyone I knew that took a break did come back and MIT was supportive of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting, PP, but someone close to me did almost exactly what you just described with a science degree - from UVA.

Right, UVA where there are 16,000 undergraduates, the professors don’t know their students, small group tutorials taught by grad students and incredibly competitive atmosphere. I’ve got two there now. Their brother who went to a CTCL school got a much more personalized education, which is what was best for him. The 2 at Uva are happy but sometimes wonder if they would have been better off at a much smaller college.

Well, considering that your two at UVA attending a school where almost 90% of the students graduate in four years - much higher than any CTCL - I’d say it’s pretty obvious that the typical student is happier there than a CTCL school. Your kids are outliers.

There are probably several factors correlated with 4 year graduation rate. Student happiness is probably one, but academic ability is as well. It is also tougher to graduate from a difficult/STEM heavy school in 4 years (MIT has a lower 4 year graduation rate of 81%, for instance). At schools like Stanford (76%, some also are delayed as they work with startups, etc.).

And the students at UVA are selected for being the top 10% in GPA of their class, with an average weighted GPA of 4.2 or higher I think. They come to UVA knowing really well how to do school and really into it. So no surprise they graduate at higher rates than schools with students with more variable academic backgrounds. It's not like organic chemistry becomes somehow easier because you go to a school ranked 60 rather than 15.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting, PP, but someone close to me did almost exactly what you just described with a science degree - from UVA.

Right, UVA where there are 16,000 undergraduates, the professors don’t know their students, small group tutorials taught by grad students and incredibly competitive atmosphere. I’ve got two there now. Their brother who went to a CTCL school got a much more personalized education, which is what was best for him. The 2 at Uva are happy but sometimes wonder if they would have been better off at a much smaller college.

Well, considering that your two at UVA attending a school where almost 90% of the students graduate in four years - much higher than any CTCL - I’d say it’s pretty obvious that the typical student is happier there than a CTCL school. Your kids are outliers.

There are probably several factors correlated with 4 year graduation rate. Student happiness is probably one, but academic ability is as well. It is also tougher to graduate from a difficult/STEM heavy school in 4 years (MIT has a lower 4 year graduation rate of 81%, for instance). At schools like Stanford (76%, some also are delayed as they work with startups, etc.).

And the students at UVA are selected for being the top 10% in GPA of their class, with an average weighted GPA of 4.2 or higher I think. They come to UVA knowing really well how to do school and really into it. So no surprise they graduate at higher rates than schools with students with more variable academic backgrounds. It's not like organic chemistry becomes somehow easier because you go to a school ranked 60 rather than 15.

To the point above, though, I'm not going to ding MIT for having a lower 4 year graduation rate than UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting, PP, but someone close to me did almost exactly what you just described with a science degree - from UVA.

Right, UVA where there are 16,000 undergraduates, the professors don’t know their students, small group tutorials taught by grad students and incredibly competitive atmosphere. I’ve got two there now. Their brother who went to a CTCL school got a much more personalized education, which is what was best for him. The 2 at Uva are happy but sometimes wonder if they would have been better off at a much smaller college.

Well, considering that your two at UVA attending a school where almost 90% of the students graduate in four years - much higher than any CTCL - I’d say it’s pretty obvious that the typical student is happier there than a CTCL school. Your kids are outliers.

There are probably several factors correlated with 4 year graduation rate. Student happiness is probably one, but academic ability is as well. It is also tougher to graduate from a difficult/STEM heavy school in 4 years (MIT has a lower 4 year graduation rate of 81%, for instance). At schools like Stanford (76%, some also are delayed as they work with startups, etc.).

And the students at UVA are selected for being the top 10% in GPA of their class, with an average weighted GPA of 4.2 or higher I think. They come to UVA knowing really well how to do school and really into it. So no surprise they graduate at higher rates than schools with students with more variable academic backgrounds. It's not like organic chemistry becomes somehow easier because you go to a school ranked 60 rather than 15.

To the point above, though, I'm not going to ding MIT for having a lower 4 year graduation rate than UVA.

No, I was just addressing the PP's point on why lower ranked schools might have lower graduation rates than a school that focuses on high GPA/hs rigor courses that have nothing to do with student happiness. Many of these schools are quite rigorous without being highly selective--it's not unexpected that some students with weaker academic backgrounds might take longer or go elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Not sure why someone felt compelled to complain to Jeff about the debate on this thread . . . It’s been pretty respectful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:P.S. I’m sure a response will be, “you just didn’t get into an Ivy, so you rationalized your decision to attend a CTCL school.”

I applied to four colleges and got into them all, including an Ivy. I just could not see myself there and happy.

Then why did you apply? I don't believe you . . .

Haha. You weren’t the only one. My HS counselor was aghast. I applied following his advice. This was a million years ago, keep in mind. I was a 1st gen college student and my parents didn’t really have any input except, “do what you think is right.” The HS counselor took a cookie cutter approach to giving advice. This was a big public HS. I found my small college on my own and he suggested I apply to the state school, a mid-sized private, and the Ivy he thought I might have a chance of getting in. I did have the opportunity to visit all four campuses. The state school was too huge and overwhelming for me at the time. Also, very strong frat culture. Didn’t like that. The mid-sized school was okay, but the students seemed too conventional and, I don’t know, there was just no excitement for me. Remember, this is 16-17 year old me going on these tours. The Ivy seemed depressing to me. I didn’t like the other parents on the tour bragging about their kids. It left a negative impression. And the campus seemed
Comes and unwelcoming. I felt like Goldilocks when I visited the CTCL campus and talked to the faculty and students. I felt “just right.”

The HS counselor wanted to blow out his brains. Luckily my parents were supportive. And as I mentioned before, I ultimately ended up at the same place my Ivy-educated spouse did. It just...worked for me.

This doesn't sound like "cookie-cutter" "big public HS" counselor advice at all. You're making this up.

I agree that there is some BS going on in this thread. Too many oh so convenient and immediate responses from the CTCL boosters that sound way too similar and are basically the CTCL talking points. I’ve been on DCUM long enough to remember how a certain DC area private school was busted on here for sock puppeting from their marketing person and this sort of has the same stink to it.

“The same ‘stink’ to it...”

Hmm.

I’m the OP. I thought this would be a good forum to collect some personal experiences about a subset of colleges. I *specifically* asked for positive and negative input. I’m thankful for the people who chimed in to answer my question. I’ve shared those responses with my DS—he’s truly interested in what others have to say. Personal accounts are just additional data points for him. He’s also reached out to a few colleges to ask for current students to contact, but hearing retrospective thoughts are useful, too.

I don’t know anything about the thread being reported, so I can’t speak to that. I feel horrible for people who shared their experiences only to have their colleges bashed or to be told they are lying. For what it’s worth, I fully appreciate your posts and willingness to put yourselves out there.

[Anonymous]

We actually read the whole book (didn't just scan the website for the names of the schools) last year when our son was going thru the college process. He - and we - wanted a smaller school that would really get to know him and where he wouldn't be lost in a sea of faces. Some of these schools really did fit that bill. They are not all intended to be for the same student profile. Some are "changing lives" because htey are geared toward first-generation college students (not us). Some are geared to students with learning challenges (not us) or to kids who are looking for a specific type of educational experience (great books, etc) (again, not us). But some are aimed at families looking for a small student-centered atmosphere, and that is the point of the book... no family is alike in their needs and what they are looking for. All of these colleges can change lives of the kid who is looking for that experience.

That said, we traveled to and interviewed at McDaniel, Emory & Henry. Denison and Eckerd, and LOVED Denison and Eckerd. Absolutely nothing about McDaniel appealed to us, though it has a very large first-gen population, and so that's a big thing for them. Emory and Henry is a dry (or "slowly becoming "damp"") campus and has no town to speak of... situated right off of 81, it seemed like you'd have to travel far in a car to find fun stuff to do. Crossed that one off as well. DS got into Eckerd but ultimately decided it was a bit too small. GORGEOUS location on the beach outside of St. Pete, and the culture and traditions are some of the best we've seen.

Read the book, and go look at some schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We actually read the whole book (didn't just scan the website for the names of the schools) last year when our son was going thru the college process. He - and we - wanted a smaller school that would really get to know him and where he wouldn't be lost in a sea of faces. Some of these schools really did fit that bill. They are not all intended to be for the same student profile. Some are "changing lives" because htey are geared toward first-generation college students (not us). Some are geared to students with learning challenges (not us) or to kids who are looking for a specific type of educational experience (great books, etc) (again, not us). But some are aimed at families looking for a small student-centered atmosphere, and that is the point of the book... no family is alike in their needs and what they are looking for. All of these colleges can change lives of the kid who is looking for that experience.

That said, we traveled to and interviewed at McDaniel, Emory & Henry. Denison and Eckerd, and LOVED Denison and Eckerd. Absolutely nothing about McDaniel appealed to us, though it has a very large first-gen population, and so that's a big thing for them. Emory and Henry is a dry (or "slowly becoming "damp"") campus and has no town to speak of... situated right off of 81, it seemed like you'd have to travel far in a car to find fun stuff to do. Crossed that one off as well. DS got into Eckerd but ultimately decided it was a bit too small. GORGEOUS location on the beach outside of St. Pete, and the culture and traditions are some of the best we've seen.

Read the book, and go look at some schools.

Right. So they're NOT similar schools at all, except for their size. Why group them together then?

And "we" interviewed? I didn't know schools interviewed parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why someone felt compelled to complain to Jeff about the debate on this thread . . . It’s been pretty respectful.

I agree that this thread has been pretty tame by DCUM standards. There have been a few posters who criticized particular schools but for the most part the criticism seems to be of the CTCL organization and its marketing efforts.

[Anonymous]

“We” because we did travel as a family. And in at least 2 cases, parents were also met with (before or after DS was). Either as part of a group or they came out and got us after talking to him to ask us if we had any questions. As I said, these are colleges that DO change lives, each in their own way (hey - that’s the commonality!), and so they may do things differently. Don’t get so worked up about it.

[Anonymous]

It’s really sounding like the kids that go to these schools aren’t actually ready for college but have parents with a lot of money who just push it along. I’ll bet a year or two in community college would’ve a much better and more cost effective approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s really sounding like the kids that go to these schools aren’t actually ready for college but have parents with a lot of money who just push it along. I’ll bet a year or two in community college would’ve a much better and more cost effective approach.

And it really sounds to me like you are doing some selective reading of this post. There have been several, including me, who’ve posted saying either they or their child had been accepted to higher ranked or much more prestigious/selective colleges but decided to attend a CTCL.