Can achievement gap be closed with extra tutoring?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you need is 1 disruptive kid or behind kid in your "high caliber class" and that is the time sink. Too much pressure to test well and get everyone to same level.

The only thing worse than public school is a massive county-run public school.

OK, let's get rid of the public school system! No more public schools. And then what?

put an aide in the classrooms. that's how DCPS and private schools handle it. and lower max caps on # of kids per class.
so much more effective to teach over 22 kids of different abilities when there are two teachers, not one. the rotating centers structure doesn't cut it, never will.

DCPS isn't nearly the size of MCPS and you are also allowed to fund for your own aides, which many schools do. You are not allowed to do that in MCPS

And DC is a shining example of success in closing the gap?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If Montgomery County would stop welcoming illegals with open arms and paying for their lawyers, paying fees, giving them discounted tuition, and offer up so many services - MCPS wouldn't have this problem. Casa De MD is ruining this state and their education system. MCPS has been on the decline for the last 15 years and it has everything to do with the resources now needed to educate kids who just show up in the country and we sadly have to educate federal law breakers instead of asking for SS# and deporting those that are illegal.

ESOL teachers make double the amount a classroom teacher takes. How many are in your school compared to 10-15yrs ago. We had 1 and now we have 3.5. Check and see what the FARMS at your school was 10-15yrs ago and what it is now. I bet it correlates exactly with the hispanic population.

I am so sick of hearing that we need to close the achievement gap. It is always at the expense of the legal citizens who are being dumbed down in an already easy curriculum to let 10yr olds with a 4yr old education somehow pass. Ridiculous.

We do?????? That's news to me. We make whatever step we are on regardless of what we teach. You can earn extra by coaching, team lead, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:drop out rates already 50%+ in that demo by 10th grade.

[Citation needed]

click though any MCPS annual report for drop out rates by demographic and test scores over grade levels by demographic.
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/annualreport/2017/


I don't know what is worse, the standardized test scores showing proficiency level at diminishing low %'s each grade for ESOL and FARMS over time, or increasing drop out rates each grade for ESOl and FARMS.
At that point it's a two-way swing: more and more ESOL and FARMS are dropping out from 4th grade to 6th to 8th to 10th grade, and the ones left are scoring worse and worse, from 50% being proficient to 35% to 25% from grades 4 through 10.

Well, let's see. The overall graduation rate is 89.8%, for African-American students it's 87.7%, for Hispanic students it's 80.4%, for special ed it's 72.0%, for FARMS it's 82.9%. So, where did you get the 50%+ drop-out rates from?

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/press/index.aspx?page=showrelease&id=5017

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If we could put all struggling students in a different classroom with ESOL support and extra aides - we would be able to do it cheaply. The whole school does not need ESOL or extra aides. Struggling students and disruptive students should not be in the regular classroom. It is as simple as that.

This is one big IDEA violation right here.

Children, including English language learners, those with learning disabilities (struggling students), and those with "disruptive" behavioral differences have a legal right to a least restrictive environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the current reality of no fees, free education for everyone - what else can be done to close the achievement gap?

We need to remember that while both AA and HI students are lagging behind that's where the similarity ends. AA students do not have a language barrier or immigration issues.

There are black people in America who are immigrants from countries with languages that aren't American English (or English at all). True fact.

And Asians too. But the majority of blacks who are struggling with education do not have a language barrier or immigration issues. ESOL services are mainly being used by Hispanics.

What information do you base this statement on?

Being in a school with ESOL services. The reality on ground.

Well, anecdotal experience is information, that's true. But it sure isn't data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you need is 1 disruptive kid or behind kid in your "high caliber class" and that is the time sink. Too much pressure to test well and get everyone to same level.

The only thing worse than public school is a massive county-run public school.

OK, let's get rid of the public school system! No more public schools. And then what?

put an aide in the classrooms. that's how DCPS and private schools handle it. and lower max caps on # of kids per class.
so much more effective to teach over 22 kids of different abilities when there are two teachers, not one. the rotating centers structure doesn't cut it, never will.

Put an aide in which classrooms? Once we've gotten rid of the public schools, which nothing is worse than, according to the top PP.

Also, is DCPS generally considered a highly-effective school system?

Central offices aside, there is much more effective teaching going on in NWDC ESs than in MCPS ESs in Bethesda or Silver Spring. The DC ES curriculum is way better, the classroom size caps are 20 or 22 and there is an aide in each classroom to help the teacher. They don't even need to do the rotating centers, kids get more teacher time speaking ,discussing and learning. They also have three times the amount of gym, music and art class than MCPS each week. plus foreign languages intros. Same fantastic community, talk to school, and involved parents/PTA.

Check it out yourself, in person.

But here's a start - classroom schedules, PTA initiatives, extracurriculars. All right there.
https://www.janneyschool.org/

[Anonymous]

Central offices aside, there is much more effective teaching going on in NWDC ESs than in MCPS ESs in Bethesda or Silver Spring. The DC ES curriculum is way better, the classroom size caps are 20 or 22 and there is an aide in each classroom to help the teacher. They don't even need to do the rotating centers, kids get more teacher time speaking ,discussing and learning. They also have three times the amount of gym, music and art class than MCPS each week. plus foreign languages intros. Same fantastic community, talk to school, and involved parents/PTA.

Check it out yourself, in person.

But here's a start - classroom schedules, PTA initiatives, extracurriculars. All right there.
https://www.janneyschool.org/

It would be a mistake to equate the (excellent) opportunities available at the richest elementary school in the District, a school currently hounding parents for a $750 PER KID "donation" to the PTA, as somehow standing in for DCPS in general.

There's a reason folks always look to Janney to make the case for DCPS - because it is a fairly singular neighborhood school success story. It is also an outlier in almost every way, not to mention being completely inaccessible for all but the richest Washingtonians.

This isn't really about DCPS vs. MCPS because I don't think that's a productive argument. But there is real danger in trumpeting the richest, whitest, least diverse DCPS neighborhood school as some sort of success story for the entire district, which still struggles terribly with inequity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Central offices aside, there is much more effective teaching going on in NWDC ESs than in MCPS ESs in Bethesda or Silver Spring. The DC ES curriculum is way better, the classroom size caps are 20 or 22 and there is an aide in each classroom to help the teacher. They don't even need to do the rotating centers, kids get more teacher time speaking ,discussing and learning. They also have three times the amount of gym, music and art class than MCPS each week. plus foreign languages intros. Same fantastic community, talk to school, and involved parents/PTA.

Check it out yourself, in person.

But here's a start - classroom schedules, PTA initiatives, extracurriculars. All right there.
https://www.janneyschool.org/

Is Janney representative of DCPS? I don't spend much time on the DC public schools forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you need is 1 disruptive kid or behind kid in your "high caliber class" and that is the time sink. Too much pressure to test well and get everyone to same level.

The only thing worse than public school is a massive county-run public school.

OK, let's get rid of the public school system! No more public schools. And then what?

put an aide in the classrooms. that's how DCPS and private schools handle it. and lower max caps on # of kids per class.
so much more effective to teach over 22 kids of different abilities when there are two teachers, not one. the rotating centers structure doesn't cut it, never will.

DCPS isn't nearly the size of MCPS and you are also allowed to fund for your own aides, which many schools do. You are not allowed to do that in MCPS

And DC is a shining example of success in closing the gap?

You don't get it. MCPS isn't teaching its bottom students well nor its top students well. It's whack a model at the former and it's parents doing the teaching at the latter.

This gap obsession has literally DICTATED the whole shitty C2.0, CEO/magnet selection processes, number of adults in ES classrooms, and funds per ES, MS and HS. It's so cart before the horse for 10 years here at MCPS.

I care that my kid isn't being taught effectively or to her abilities. I don't care about her standardized test scores used to judge the school. I care that she is growing her mind, learning new things in a comprehensive manner, engaged at school, trying new extracurriculars to find her passions, and being academically challenged as much as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Central offices aside, there is much more effective teaching going on in NWDC ESs than in MCPS ESs in Bethesda or Silver Spring. The DC ES curriculum is way better, the classroom size caps are 20 or 22 and there is an aide in each classroom to help the teacher. They don't even need to do the rotating centers, kids get more teacher time speaking ,discussing and learning. They also have three times the amount of gym, music and art class than MCPS each week. plus foreign languages intros. Same fantastic community, talk to school, and involved parents/PTA.

Check it out yourself, in person.

But here's a start - classroom schedules, PTA initiatives, extracurriculars. All right there.
https://www.janneyschool.org/

Is Janney representative of DCPS? I don't spend much time on the DC public schools forum.

Don't know what DC forum is harping about but when you put educated neighborhoods head to head and thus strip that away, Janney is left with a better curriculum, ECs, teacher ratio, and specials than Bethesda ESs. More effective.

I'd agree with this comparison: much more effective teaching going on in NWDC ESs than in MCPS ESs in Bethesda

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Central offices aside, there is much more effective teaching going on in NWDC ESs than in MCPS ESs in Bethesda or Silver Spring. The DC ES curriculum is way better, the classroom size caps are 20 or 22 and there is an aide in each classroom to help the teacher. They don't even need to do the rotating centers, kids get more teacher time speaking ,discussing and learning. They also have three times the amount of gym, music and art class than MCPS each week. plus foreign languages intros. Same fantastic community, talk to school, and involved parents/PTA.

Check it out yourself, in person.

But here's a start - classroom schedules, PTA initiatives, extracurriculars. All right there.
https://www.janneyschool.org/

Is Janney representative of DCPS? I don't spend much time on the DC public schools forum.

Don't know what DC forum is harping about but when you put educated neighborhoods head to head and thus strip that away, Janney is left with a better curriculum, ECs, teacher ratio, and specials than Bethesda ESs. More effective.

I'd agree with this comparison: much more effective teaching going on in NWDC ESs than in MCPS ESs in Bethesda

So when you say, compare DCPS to MCPS, what you really mean is, compare Janney ES to Somerset ES?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Central offices aside, there is much more effective teaching going on in NWDC ESs than in MCPS ESs in Bethesda or Silver Spring. The DC ES curriculum is way better, the classroom size caps are 20 or 22 and there is an aide in each classroom to help the teacher. They don't even need to do the rotating centers, kids get more teacher time speaking ,discussing and learning. They also have three times the amount of gym, music and art class than MCPS each week. plus foreign languages intros. Same fantastic community, talk to school, and involved parents/PTA.

Check it out yourself, in person.

But here's a start - classroom schedules, PTA initiatives, extracurriculars. All right there.
https://www.janneyschool.org/

It would be a mistake to equate the (excellent) opportunities available at the richest elementary school in the District, a school currently hounding parents for a $750 PER KID "donation" to the PTA, as somehow standing in for DCPS in general.

There's a reason folks always look to Janney to make the case for DCPS - because it is a fairly singular neighborhood school success story. It is also an outlier in almost every way, not to mention being completely inaccessible for all but the richest Washingtonians.

This isn't really about DCPS vs. MCPS because I don't think that's a productive argument. But there is real danger in trumpeting the richest, whitest, least diverse DCPS neighborhood school as some sort of success story for the entire district, which still struggles terribly with inequity.

No one said that. Janney, Murch, LaFayette and Mann all have the same demographics as W school ES but with a better curriculum, more frequent specials, foreign languages, lower class size caps, and a FT aide in each class as determined by PTA.

Same educated parents, involved PTA, hard-working kids, just not hindered by MCPS central office bad curriculum, limited class schedules, morale problems, huge size of classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents think the parenting is providing the basics. School will take care of the education. So it's really a gap in expectations. If you expect 100% of your child's education to be taken care of by their school, there is most likely going to be a gap forever. When we meet with parents in kindergarten at my Title 1 school, many of them are surprised and even shocked that their child is below grade level. "How can they be below grade level when they just started school?" They think that school will teach them all that they need to know.

That is what my parents thought in the 1970s, and so did almost everyone else's parents, in a public school system in a university town in the Midwest. Most of us went on to advanced degrees and professional careers.

We live in different times due to global competition. I wish folks would stop comparing the US now to the "good old days". I grew up in the 70's./80's. A lot of the students that went on to top colleges back then probably wouldn't get in today.

Back then, rote learning was the thing. Terrible way to teach. Back then, we had more factory jobs, and people could live a comfortable middle class life with such jobs. Not so much anymore in many places in this country.

STEM wasn't as a big a deal back then as it is today.

Please step out of the 70's time warp.

I'm guessing that you don't remember a lot of the educational fads in the 70s like: open classrooms, "new math" and whole language. Umm, no, not all of us were doing rote memorization. But memorizing information as a small child never hurt anyone. How do you think our country led the tech revolution if all of us were idiots?

A select few people were involved in the tech revolution, some who were educated outside this country. We were not all involved in this.

Look at the tech industry now. Do you honestly think 70's education would fit the needs of the industry now? I work in the tech industry btw.

Rote learning for something is fine, bu we are not talking about just early ES education. Rote learning was also how they taught math in the upper grades back then. Whatever fad there was it wasn't pervasive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Central offices aside, there is much more effective teaching going on in NWDC ESs than in MCPS ESs in Bethesda or Silver Spring. The DC ES curriculum is way better, the classroom size caps are 20 or 22 and there is an aide in each classroom to help the teacher. They don't even need to do the rotating centers, kids get more teacher time speaking ,discussing and learning. They also have three times the amount of gym, music and art class than MCPS each week. plus foreign languages intros. Same fantastic community, talk to school, and involved parents/PTA.

Check it out yourself, in person.

But here's a start - classroom schedules, PTA initiatives, extracurriculars. All right there.
https://www.janneyschool.org/

It would be a mistake to equate the (excellent) opportunities available at the richest elementary school in the District, a school currently hounding parents for a $750 PER KID "donation" to the PTA, as somehow standing in for DCPS in general.

There's a reason folks always look to Janney to make the case for DCPS - because it is a fairly singular neighborhood school success story. It is also an outlier in almost every way, not to mention being completely inaccessible for all but the richest Washingtonians.

This isn't really about DCPS vs. MCPS because I don't think that's a productive argument. But there is real danger in trumpeting the richest, whitest, least diverse DCPS neighborhood school as some sort of success story for the entire district, which still struggles terribly with inequity.

Ppl buying in NW DC are a similar cohort as those buying in Bethesda. Nowadays they can make a direct comparison of those schools and decide for themselves. The schools are trending in opposite directions. I know what I would decide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Ppl buying in NW DC are a similar cohort as those buying in Bethesda. Nowadays they can make a direct comparison of those schools and decide for themselves. The schools are trending in opposite directions. I know what I would decide.

How is a comparison of public schools for the children of rich people in Bethesda vs. NW DC relevant to a thread about the closing the achievement gap?