PARCC monitoring student's social media, wants schools to "punish" them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is "real math", and who gets to decide which math is real and which math is fake?

There is truth to math. It is not something made up like creationism.

Then why are people talking about fake math?

Actually the order of operations is made up, or more accurately a social convention. There's no reason it has to be that way.

Mmhmm

Then please explain to me why it is mathematically necessary to do the operations in parentheses before the exponent operations.

The order of operations in which one is to interpret a mathematical expression such as "2+3 * 5" is a convention. This means that a long time ago, people just decided on an order in which operations should be performed. It has nothing to do with magic or logic. Some people decided to adopt a way, and it has stuck ever since. It just makes communication a lot easier.
Another way of saying this is that rather than being inherent in the structure of mathematics, the concept of "order of operations" is a matter of mathematical notation. Order of operations refers to which operations should be performed in what order, but it's just convention. The notation tells you which operations to do first, not something about the underlying mathematics.
http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.order.operations.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not really any better if they are just monitoring for "proprietary" information. These tests should not be able to hide from transparency under the guise of proprietariness. Next thing you know a kid will be sued for defamation for tweeting that Parcc is "stupid." For-profit concerns should not displace public education.

Whose public education is getting displaced as a result of Pearson's monitoring of social media?

When tests become proprietary data that students, teachers, and parents cannot openly discuss, that is a huge displacement of the proper role of public education.

The College Board was founded in 1900.

[Anonymous]

When tests become proprietary data that students, teachers, and parents cannot openly discuss, that is a huge displacement of the proper role of public education.


The College Board was founded in 1900.

This is totally different. The College Board does not involve teachers or parents for the most part. Schools and teachers are not rated based on the College Board tests. The tests that we are discussing (PARCC) are given as part of a "standards based" public school education.

The College Board gives a college entrance exam that is not measuring teachers, standards, or a set curriculum. Also those are not mandatory tests---they are totally optional. You can't compare the College Board tests to what is going on with the standardized tests that start in grade 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is "real math", and who gets to decide which math is real and which math is fake?

There is truth to math. It is not something made up like creationism.

Then why are people talking about fake math?

Actually the order of operations is made up, or more accurately a social convention. There's no reason it has to be that way.

Mmhmm

Then please explain to me why it is mathematically necessary to do the operations in parentheses before the exponent operations.

The order of operations in which one is to interpret a mathematical expression such as "2+3 * 5" is a convention. This means that a long time ago, people just decided on an order in which operations should be performed. It has nothing to do with magic or logic. Some people decided to adopt a way, and it has stuck ever since. It just makes communication a lot easier.
Another way of saying this is that rather than being inherent in the structure of mathematics, the concept of "order of operations" is a matter of mathematical notation. Order of operations refers to which operations should be performed in what order, but it's just convention. The notation tells you which operations to do first, not something about the underlying mathematics.
http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.order.operations.html

The key phrase is "a long time ago." In so far as a convention was established way back when as to how to read an expression it matters NOW what order. Convention and notation are important so everyone is on the same page. That's why its best if the educators who are writing math curricula follow the conventions already established.
Try this doing the exponent first to see why: (3+2)^2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

When tests become proprietary data that students, teachers, and parents cannot openly discuss, that is a huge displacement of the proper role of public education.


The College Board was founded in 1900.

This is totally different. The College Board does not involve teachers or parents for the most part. Schools and teachers are not rated based on the College Board tests. The tests that we are discussing (PARCC) are given as part of a "standards based" public school education.

The College Board gives a college entrance exam that is not measuring teachers, standards, or a set curriculum. Also those are not mandatory tests---they are totally optional. You can't compare the College Board tests to what is going on with the standardized tests that start in grade 3.

Schools and teachers are not rated based on College Boards? Not measuring on College Boards? You clearly have not seen all of the numerous threads on DCUM discussing schools to shun like the plague because of their poor college entrance exam results...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The key phrase is "a long time ago." In so far as a convention was established way back when as to how to read an expression it matters NOW what order. Convention and notation are important so everyone is on the same page. That's why its best if the educators who are writing math curricula follow the conventions already established.
Try this doing the exponent first to see why: (3+2)^2

Yes, of course convention and notation are important. Nonetheless, the point is that order of operations is a convention.

[Anonymous]

[quoteSchools and teachers are not rated based on College Boards? Not measuring on College Boards? You clearly have not seen all of the numerous threads on DCUM discussing schools to shun like the plague because of their poor college entrance exam results...

They are not high stakes for the schools or teachers. Teacher evaluations are not made based on College Boards. ]

[Anonymous]

The College Board gives a college entrance exam that is not measuring teachers, standards, or a set curriculum. Also those are not mandatory tests---they are totally optional. You can't compare the College Board tests to what is going on with the standardized tests that start in grade 3.

NCLB does not ask for the College Board test scores to be sent by schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The key phrase is "a long time ago." In so far as a convention was established way back when as to how to read an expression it matters NOW what order. Convention and notation are important so everyone is on the same page. That's why its best if the educators who are writing math curricula follow the conventions already established.
Try this doing the exponent first to see why: (3+2)^2

Yes, of course convention and notation are important. Nonetheless, the point is that order of operations is a convention.

Well I'm not completely convinced of this. I think the orders evolved naturally. If mult didn't precede addition, how would you distinguish between something like 3 + 2*6 [to mean (3+2)*6 = 30] and expressing what we know as 3 + 2*6 [=15]. I don't think it was completely arbitrary how the order of operation came to exist. Same with the above exmaple: (3+2)^2. If the exponent came first it would equivalent to 3+2^2 , so how could you express (3+2)^2 to mean what we think it means under those rules? I didn't read the explanation someone linked so maybe it is explained there. In any case, it's not a convention for Pearson Corp to change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[quoteSchools and teachers are not rated based on College Boards? Not measuring on College Boards? You clearly have not seen all of the numerous threads on DCUM discussing schools to shun like the plague because of their poor college entrance exam results...

They are not high stakes for the schools or teachers. Teacher evaluations are not made based on College Boards. ]

So evidently you don't think it matters and don't care if families are bailing on certain public schools because of their abysmal test results? Perhaps that's why there's so much mediocrity in the school system. Nobody cares about results.

[Anonymous]

So evidently you don't think it matters and don't care if families are bailing on certain public schools because of their abysmal test results? Perhaps that's why there's so much mediocrity in the school system. Nobody cares about results.

Of course, they care. It is a matter of prestige. However, a bad score from students is not going to get a teacher fired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not really any better if they are just monitoring for "proprietary" information. These tests should not be able to hide from transparency under the guise of proprietariness. Next thing you know a kid will be sued for defamation for tweeting that Parcc is "stupid." For-profit concerns should not displace public education.

Whose public education is getting displaced as a result of Pearson's monitoring of social media?

When tests become proprietary data that students, teachers, and parents cannot openly discuss, that is a huge displacement of the proper role of public education.

I don't actually think it's legal, the way in which Pearson is trying to keep the proprietary nature of the exams and curriculum so closed. Parents and students have a right under the federal law, FERPA, to see all tests, including the specific answers recorded, the test questions, the test administration protocol and any data generated with a personalized student ID attached. You also have a right to ask questions, i.e. discuss it with appropriate teachers and staff.

If your child takes the PARCC and you want to see his answers and the questions, you should write a FERPA letter. I don't think the school can deny access.

[Anonymous]

I don't actually think it's legal, the way in which Pearson is trying to keep the proprietary nature of the exams and curriculum so closed. Parents and students have a right under the federal law, FERPA, to see all tests, including the specific answers recorded, the test questions, the test administration protocol and any data generated with a personalized student ID attached. You also have a right to ask questions, i.e. discuss it with appropriate teachers and staff.

If your child takes the PARCC and you want to see his answers and the questions, you should write a FERPA letter. I don't think the school can deny access.

This is very interesting. I'm pretty sure my son got his SAT score back with the questions and answers so that he could look to see what he missed and what the correct answers were. It was online I think. I can't recall, but I think he got the same thing for his PSAT. Does anyone else remember this?

[Anonymous]

^ I see that ACT will send the test questions and answers after you take the test:

http://www.actstudent.org/scores/release.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not really any better if they are just monitoring for "proprietary" information. These tests should not be able to hide from transparency under the guise of proprietariness. Next thing you know a kid will be sued for defamation for tweeting that Parcc is "stupid." For-profit concerns should not displace public education.

Whose public education is getting displaced as a result of Pearson's monitoring of social media?

When tests become proprietary data that students, teachers, and parents cannot openly discuss, that is a huge displacement of the proper role of public education.

I don't actually think it's legal, the way in which Pearson is trying to keep the proprietary nature of the exams and curriculum so closed. Parents and students have a right under the federal law, FERPA, to see all tests, including the specific answers recorded, the test questions, the test administration protocol and any data generated with a personalized student ID attached. You also have a right to ask questions, i.e. discuss it with appropriate teachers and staff.

If your child takes the PARCC and you want to see his answers and the questions, you should write a FERPA letter. I don't think the school can deny access.

When I was growing up, teachers kept their exams and answer keys under lock and key. You didn't see the exam until the day it was given. And if an upperclassman were to try and share the test he took the year prior, that was heavily frowned upon. They were always treated as proprietary information with consequences if they were improperly shared so that others could get an unfair advantage. This really isn't that much different from how tests have been handled for decades.