Shame on Arlington County HS Volleyball Coaches

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For putting multiple 8th graders on Arlington County high school JV teams (not even freshman teams!) and bumping hardworking sophomores/juniors who now can’t play for their *actual* school.

13-year-olds shouldn’t be on a high school JV team when there are only 12 spots.

And shame on the coaches for enabling this.

ITA. This is when many Sophomore/Junior players start recruiting and the JV high school coaches should have used more common sense.

Do many juniors who play JV and are worse than 8th graders get recruited? This is a surprise to me.

Exactly. If an 8th grader beats out a 9/10th grader, then it's an unlikely that kid will get in front of a recruiter. And what recruiters go to JV games anyway?
Full disclosure: my DD was an 8th grader on a JV softball team at YHS. I do think it's odd that they aren't restricted to the freshman team if there is one, but it just sounds like a lot of sour grapes. The 8th graders that came after my DD were a killer group and we knew that some of them would make varsity ahead of her.

NP here and I have boys who are in elementary school so I don’t have a dog in this fight. But I do try to keep up on this type of issue because mine love sports and will go to Yorktown someday.

My feeling is that these teams do not need to be (and shouldn’t be) prioritizing recruitment and winning to this extent. There are many other benefits to HS sports.

I find it sad that girls who are good enough to make a JV team but not necessarily good enough to go on to college level play are having their sports careers cut short in order for 13 year olds to make the team (who btw can already play competitive club sports and will likely make JV, varsity, and college teams if they’re “so” amazingly good to cut older players).

I will never have a daughter playing volleyball, but I am sad for the girls who were enjoying their sport, getting exercise, and felt part of a team now losing that opportunity. Do we really need to teach kids this young that they are expendable the moment someone younger/better comes along?

What next? Should we have talented middle schoolers taking spots in the HS play? Or the math team? And so on …

I think current HS kids should get to take advantage of HS programs and the MS kids will get their turn someday. Playing up to a 9th grade team could make sense in some cases, but I hate that the adults are losing track of what HS sports should be about.

When we were in high school, 80s through the 00s, recruiting was not common for public high school sports. Athletes played for the love of their school and their sport. Times have changed and our generation (as adults) is to blame.

Many of us saw that local eyewitness news story last month about the football recruiting scandal at a nearby FCPS high school. Sadly, recruiting has prevented many in bounds kids from playing a sport. Middle school students competing for limited spots on a high school team only exacerbates the problem. After some thought, maybe APS should allocate money for junior high volleyball, field hockey, and baseball. That would reserve the competitive high school teams for high schoolers. Football, which has no cuts, can continue to offer spots to 8th graders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never heard of that. Did anyone ask why they don’t have a middle school team? What will stop them from choosing the 6’3” 7th grade girl who has been playing every summer every day since she was four?

It’s a state wide VHSL policy and only applies to 8th graders In sports where there is no middle school team.

The state VHSL policy is a "may" exception. It's up to the school districts to determine if they want to allow exceptions and the details as long as they meet the criteria of the VHSL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never heard of that. Did anyone ask why they don’t have a middle school team? What will stop them from choosing the 6’3” 7th grade girl who has been playing every summer every day since she was four?

It’s a state wide VHSL policy and only applies to 8th graders In sports where there is no middle school team.

No VHSL has a "may" exception to the rule of only high school players, but its a local decision of the school districts whether to allow this exception and under what terms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:8th graders are allowed to try-out for the fall sports- Freshman Football, Cross
Country, Volleyball and Field Hockey. In the Spring, 8th graders are allowed to try out for Softball, Baseball, Boys Lacrosse, Girls
Lacrosse, and Crew.
These sports are offered to 8th graders because they are not offered at the middle school level, and the Virginia High School League allows 8th graders to participate on the JV level without affecting their high
school eligibility.

This is not just Arlington.

The league allows for the exception as a may, but each school district determines its own policies and whether to allow the exception or not. So the league allows its members to do this. but not 8th graders directly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never heard of that. Did anyone ask why they don’t have a middle school team? What will stop them from choosing the 6’3” 7th grade girl who has been playing every summer every day since she was four?

It’s a state wide VHSL policy and only applies to 8th graders In sports where there is no middle school team.

No VHSL has a "may" exception to the rule of only high school players, but its a local decision of the school districts whether to allow this exception and under what terms.

DP. While I do not agree with the exception rule, the way that I read it, it is not a "may". The VHSL exception rule 28A-3-2 does not use the word "may". The way I interpret the rule, it appears to say that 8th graders are eligible, period. I can't find anything in the VHSL handbook that allows a district to modify an eligibility rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know for a fact that 8th graders made the YHS and WL teams and bumped actual YHS and WL students. It remains to be seen if they actually enroll at the school. And these 8th graders didn’t stand out as superstars during tryouts either. So inquiries about the coaching and club bias seem to be valid. Lame and certainly doesn’t help team morale or loyalty when those 8th graders can play club and most of the Fall clubs have many advanced opportunities for them. Whereas there are nearly none for HS students who don’t play for their teams. Agree that the coaches need to do better. There was little to no loyalty shown to returning HS players who dedicated their time and energy to the teams in previous years and to their school. And who maybe don’t have the resources to afford or play for club. It’s very sad at the HS level. Club I get it. But HS where the pride is to play for one’s school…. Very misguided and hurtful and ignorant of the coaches.

Lots to unpack except the rules allow for 8th graders to play on JV. Don't like the rules, work with APS to change the rules or get you kid better.

While I disagree with the rule, APS cannot "change" the rule. It is a VHSL rule.

APS "can" change the rules. VHSL confirmed to me directly the exception is a "may" not a "shall." It's up to their member school districts to allow for the exception or not and the district can place further restrictions to the exception. So this is an Arlington policy. What remains unclear to me is whether this was a school board adopted policy, a decision made by district staff with athletics departments etc. and what problem(s) were they trying to solve. The only board policy I could find has to do with the process and financial considerations for the addition and removal of team sports.

What is exacerbating the problems here is the massive growth of volleyball and for Arlington the three very large high schools between 2,100+ to 2,500+ students, no VB offerings in the option high schools and 8th grade. We have a total enrollment last year in high school in the county of 8,178 and we had an additional 1,942 8th graders. Volleyball is one of the smaller team sports 12-14 players. About 42 players total F, JV, V. Last year Yorktown's JV team was about 12 players, but the potential pool of eligible students for JV is massive -all for about 12 spots.

[Anonymous]

The year my DD tried out, 75 students tried out for 12-14 slots.

[Anonymous]

The coaches are scum and should be outed. Name them so we can shame them.

This happened with TC Williams baseball maybe 5 years ago. The coach (who has since been fired for telling a kid he 'should kill himself' for throwing too many balls) literally filled the JV team with his travel kids and excluded all he other boys who had played Alexandria ball for half a decade. The guy was an absolute piece of trash.

The next coach was a fat POS from BI who did the exact same thing until he got quietly fired/let go for telling a family he 'couldn't waste a jersey' on a senior when he wanted to play a freshman who paid him for travel.

There is no world where a 13 yo should play ahead of a 16 yo, talented or otherwise. This is not the MLB.

OP- sorry you are in this scenario but know that these losers are temporary. They will get tossed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know for a fact that 8th graders made the YHS and WL teams and bumped actual YHS and WL students. It remains to be seen if they actually enroll at the school. And these 8th graders didn’t stand out as superstars during tryouts either. So inquiries about the coaching and club bias seem to be valid. Lame and certainly doesn’t help team morale or loyalty when those 8th graders can play club and most of the Fall clubs have many advanced opportunities for them. Whereas there are nearly none for HS students who don’t play for their teams. Agree that the coaches need to do better. There was little to no loyalty shown to returning HS players who dedicated their time and energy to the teams in previous years and to their school. And who maybe don’t have the resources to afford or play for club. It’s very sad at the HS level. Club I get it. But HS where the pride is to play for one’s school…. Very misguided and hurtful and ignorant of the coaches.

Lots to unpack except the rules allow for 8th graders to play on JV. Don't like the rules, work with APS to change the rules or get you kid better.

While I disagree with the rule, APS cannot "change" the rule. It is a VHSL rule.

APS "can" change the rules. VHSL confirmed to me directly the exception is a "may" not a "shall." It's up to their member school districts to allow for the exception or not and the district can place further restrictions to the exception. So this is an Arlington policy. What remains unclear to me is whether this was a school board adopted policy, a decision made by district staff with athletics departments etc. and what problem(s) were they trying to solve. The only board policy I could find has to do with the process and financial considerations for the addition and removal of team sports.

What is exacerbating the problems here is the massive growth of volleyball and for Arlington the three very large high schools between 2,100+ to 2,500+ students, no VB offerings in the option high schools and 8th grade. We have a total enrollment last year in high school in the county of 8,178 and we had an additional 1,942 8th graders. Volleyball is one of the smaller team sports 12-14 players. About 42 players total F, JV, V. Last year Yorktown's JV team was about 12 players, but the potential pool of eligible students for JV is massive -all for about 12 spots.

If there are so many MS players can you lobby for MS teams?

My kid went to HB and not many of his friend did sports at their base schools because they didn't finish school until after 4pm. That's why most of them did ultimate. Travel distances are even worse now the school is in Rosslyn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you serious? The best kids make the team. Your kid has to earn their spot. This is the most Arlington post I've ever read.

Sooo.... professional chefs get to cut in front of you at the grocery store?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know for a fact that 8th graders made the YHS and WL teams and bumped actual YHS and WL students. It remains to be seen if they actually enroll at the school. And these 8th graders didn’t stand out as superstars during tryouts either. So inquiries about the coaching and club bias seem to be valid. Lame and certainly doesn’t help team morale or loyalty when those 8th graders can play club and most of the Fall clubs have many advanced opportunities for them. Whereas there are nearly none for HS students who don’t play for their teams. Agree that the coaches need to do better. There was little to no loyalty shown to returning HS players who dedicated their time and energy to the teams in previous years and to their school. And who maybe don’t have the resources to afford or play for club. It’s very sad at the HS level. Club I get it. But HS where the pride is to play for one’s school…. Very misguided and hurtful and ignorant of the coaches.

Lots to unpack except the rules allow for 8th graders to play on JV. Don't like the rules, work with APS to change the rules or get you kid better.

While I disagree with the rule, APS cannot "change" the rule. It is a VHSL rule.

APS "can" change the rules. VHSL confirmed to me directly the exception is a "may" not a "shall." It's up to their member school districts to allow for the exception or not and the district can place further restrictions to the exception. So this is an Arlington policy. What remains unclear to me is whether this was a school board adopted policy, a decision made by district staff with athletics departments etc. and what problem(s) were they trying to solve. The only board policy I could find has to do with the process and financial considerations for the addition and removal of team sports.

What is exacerbating the problems here is the massive growth of volleyball and for Arlington the three very large high schools between 2,100+ to 2,500+ students, no VB offerings in the option high schools and 8th grade. We have a total enrollment last year in high school in the county of 8,178 and we had an additional 1,942 8th graders. Volleyball is one of the smaller team sports 12-14 players. About 42 players total F, JV, V. Last year Yorktown's JV team was about 12 players, but the potential pool of eligible students for JV is massive -all for about 12 spots.

Not sure why it is unclear to you. Arlington is simply following the eligibilty rules (I do not agree with the exception rule) as determined by VHSL. No school district is obligated to state why they are following the eligibility rules as written. Furthermore, if VHSL is going to state that 8th graders are eligible in their rules, but allow a district to declare 8th graders ineligible if it chooses to do so, then VHSL should be more explicit in their eligibility rules as to such.

[Anonymous]

Maybe coaches should be required to disclose which student athletes are paying them coaching fees outside of the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never heard of that. Did anyone ask why they don’t have a middle school team? What will stop them from choosing the 6’3” 7th grade girl who has been playing every summer every day since she was four?

It’s a state wide VHSL policy and only applies to 8th graders In sports where there is no middle school team.

No VHSL has a "may" exception to the rule of only high school players, but its a local decision of the school districts whether to allow this exception and under what terms.

Correct Arlington County allows 8th graders to tryout for HS. Fairfax County does not. It really should just be HS 9-10th graders playing HS sports. Within just one year there can be a big difference in Maturity, growth and development in terms of getting injured

[Anonymous]

Is there more than one person here actually arguing that a middle schooler deserves a spot on a high school team more than a kid that attends the high school? That is wild.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The coaches are scum and should be outed. Name them so we can shame them.

This happened with TC Williams baseball maybe 5 years ago. The coach (who has since been fired for telling a kid he 'should kill himself' for throwing too many balls) literally filled the JV team with his travel kids and excluded all he other boys who had played Alexandria ball for half a decade. The guy was an absolute piece of trash.

The next coach was a fat POS from BI who did the exact same thing until he got quietly fired/let go for telling a family he 'couldn't waste a jersey' on a senior when he wanted to play a freshman who paid him for travel.

There is no world where a 13 yo should play ahead of a 16 yo, talented or otherwise. This is not the MLB.

OP- sorry you are in this scenario but know that these losers are temporary. They will get tossed.

There is a world where a 13 yo is better than half of the 16 yo on the high school varsity team. Just think about the beasts from Metro or Paramount. This season Metro had a 12 yo on the 13s team who can kick your 16 yo's behind.