BOE reconsidering the Virtual Academy, Leader in Me, and Innovative School Year Calendar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks really should click through the report on MVA because it doesn't look good, assuming one wants to take an evidence-based approach. At the very least, the VA needs to be revamped to address the issues detailed in the report.

The report is easy to read, and clearly laid out, even if it does seem it took MCPS quite a while to make it public. The biggest takeaway is that MVA is not working at the ES level in particular. Attendance is worse for MVA than in-person school, and testing outcomes are significantly worse.

At the MS and HS levels, chronic absenteeism is about the same as the in-school population, but that itself is alarming given the dismal state of attendance in general.

At best, the data would suggest that MVA is not an appropriate model for K-5.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/Virtual%20Academy%20FINAL.pdf

Some of t that data is not accurate as many families opted out if testing.

This doesn't make any sense, though. The report says that for MAP-M only about 11% of kids opted out of the test. So, of the 89% of MVA kids who did take the tests, there were statistically significant (in some cases very significant) differences for K-5 kids in particular.

So, unless the missing 11% is for some reason also the highest scoring 11%, the numbers still show that MVA isn't working for K-5, at least in terms of attendance and mastery of core academic subjects. There's no reason to believe that the 89% who did take the test is not statistically representative of the broader group and in fact much more reason to believe that the 11% who didn't test are more likely to be lower scorers than higher scorers.

Stop bringing up facts and data in response to the fever dream that the virtual academy is a worthwhile program

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

Naw. If MCPS decided to build a new experimental school a few years ago and I opted to roll the dice to attend, I wouldn’t be up in arms if attendance dropped 40% two years in a row and the system started asking whether it’s wise to keep the school open.

+1. Also, at the posters saying that the test scores are biased because high performing families opted out- you are shooting yourself in the foot. If your kids are doing so we’ll get them in there for the tests. Otherwise don’t complain about the data. MCPS can only use what it has in front of it.

You are right, we did shoot ourselves in the foot, but its a bunch of bad choices and if you are in the MVA for health reasons, its a bit concerning to send your child to a school, that you have no contact with, when no one is masking or taking basic precautions AND the school refuses to accommodate the concerns.

I thought the kids would be in a room by themselves taking the test? Not mingling with the unmasked masses.

That would make sense, but no, I was told they'd be in the large lunch room with everyone else. They could have had a separate room for all the virtual kids, but our school refused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

MAP is also the test that the evaluators used to look at how MVA students were making progress compared to their peers attending in-person school.

"Students attending Virtual Academy in Grades 3, 4, and 5 were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022.

Within student service groups, MVA students receiving FARMS were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022, but EMLs did not differ between the two groups. Among Asian, Black or African American, White, and Hispanic/Latino students, MVA students were significantly less likely to meet projected reading growth compared with their inperson peers."

The other item that really stands out is chronic absences. Overall, absences in MS and HS were similar to in-person counterparts, but chronic absences among MVA kids were alarmingly high in the elementary grades in particular. Almost a quarter of MVA kids in 2nd - 5th grades were chronically absent. That's a shocking figure. If this were about mental or physical health, you'd expect the figures to be static across grades or even higher for MS and HS. The numbers being so high among the youngest kids suggests something else may be at play, either families enrolling in MVA to facilitate Disney trips in the off-season, or more nefarious motivations such as removing kids from the line of view of mandatory reporters.

Didn’t even read this. This forum is full of educational experts here. Yes! So with that logic let’s kick out all the chronically absent kids. At least I’d they aren’t going in person there is an option! And if you cared so much about mandated reporting where was the outcry with all the skipping last year? Did CPS get called with all the kids in person schools LOST the ability to locate? Where they called when students where doing illegal drugs in the bathroom and sexually assaulting students? You look ridiculous with your cherry picking about a program because virtual didn’t work for you. Go find a productive hobby.

We can't continue to fund a failing program based on vibes. If you refuse to engage with the data, I don't know what exle anyone can do, but MCPS has decided to evaluate three programs: MVA, IS, and LiM.

What I want from my school district is to look at expenditures, conduct evaluation of impact, and make evidence-based decisions on whether to move forward. Based on the existing data, both the IS calendar and MVA need reconsideration. Outcomes are worse, which is not the direction we want to see in any educational experiment.

As for the allegation of cherry-picking, you have admitted to not reading the evaluation nor do you want to engage in discussion about excerpts. I know it is scary to face whatever fears you have about in-person schools, but I don't think MCPS can in good conscience continue with a program that sees kids falling further behind their peers.

Love that you assume my kids are there. No, I just believe in equity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks really should click through the report on MVA because it doesn't look good, assuming one wants to take an evidence-based approach. At the very least, the VA needs to be revamped to address the issues detailed in the report.

The report is easy to read, and clearly laid out, even if it does seem it took MCPS quite a while to make it public. The biggest takeaway is that MVA is not working at the ES level in particular. Attendance is worse for MVA than in-person school, and testing outcomes are significantly worse.

At the MS and HS levels, chronic absenteeism is about the same as the in-school population, but that itself is alarming given the dismal state of attendance in general.

At best, the data would suggest that MVA is not an appropriate model for K-5.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/Virtual%20Academy%20FINAL.pdf

Some of t that data is not accurate as many families opted out if testing.

This doesn't make any sense, though. The report says that for MAP-M only about 11% of kids opted out of the test. So, of the 89% of MVA kids who did take the tests, there were statistically significant (in some cases very significant) differences for K-5 kids in particular.

So, unless the missing 11% is for some reason also the highest scoring 11%, the numbers still show that MVA isn't working for K-5, at least in terms of attendance and mastery of core academic subjects. There's no reason to believe that the 89% who did take the test is not statistically representative of the broader group and in fact much more reason to believe that the 11% who didn't test are more likely to be lower scorers than higher scorers.

Stop bringing up facts and data in response to the fever dream that the virtual academy is a worthwhile program

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

Naw. If MCPS decided to build a new experimental school a few years ago and I opted to roll the dice to attend, I wouldn’t be up in arms if attendance dropped 40% two years in a row and the system started asking whether it’s wise to keep the school open.

+1. Also, at the posters saying that the test scores are biased because high performing families opted out- you are shooting yourself in the foot. If your kids are doing so we’ll get them in there for the tests. Otherwise don’t complain about the data. MCPS can only use what it has in front of it.

You are right, we did shoot ourselves in the foot, but its a bunch of bad choices and if you are in the MVA for health reasons, its a bit concerning to send your child to a school, that you have no contact with, when no one is masking or taking basic precautions AND the school refuses to accommodate the concerns.

I thought the kids would be in a room by themselves taking the test? Not mingling with the unmasked masses.

That would make sense, but no, I was told they'd be in the large lunch room with everyone else. They could have had a separate room for all the virtual kids, but our school refused.

Can’t your kids wear masks? Worn correctly they are very effective. Oh well, too late now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

MAP is also the test that the evaluators used to look at how MVA students were making progress compared to their peers attending in-person school.

"Students attending Virtual Academy in Grades 3, 4, and 5 were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022.

Within student service groups, MVA students receiving FARMS were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022, but EMLs did not differ between the two groups. Among Asian, Black or African American, White, and Hispanic/Latino students, MVA students were significantly less likely to meet projected reading growth compared with their inperson peers."

The other item that really stands out is chronic absences. Overall, absences in MS and HS were similar to in-person counterparts, but chronic absences among MVA kids were alarmingly high in the elementary grades in particular. Almost a quarter of MVA kids in 2nd - 5th grades were chronically absent. That's a shocking figure. If this were about mental or physical health, you'd expect the figures to be static across grades or even higher for MS and HS. The numbers being so high among the youngest kids suggests something else may be at play, either families enrolling in MVA to facilitate Disney trips in the off-season, or more nefarious motivations such as removing kids from the line of view of mandatory reporters.

Didn’t even read this. This forum is full of educational experts here. Yes! So with that logic let’s kick out all the chronically absent kids. At least I’d they aren’t going in person there is an option! And if you cared so much about mandated reporting where was the outcry with all the skipping last year? Did CPS get called with all the kids in person schools LOST the ability to locate? Where they called when students where doing illegal drugs in the bathroom and sexually assaulting students? You look ridiculous with your cherry picking about a program because virtual didn’t work for you. Go find a productive hobby.

We can't continue to fund a failing program based on vibes. If you refuse to engage with the data, I don't know what exle anyone can do, but MCPS has decided to evaluate three programs: MVA, IS, and LiM.

What I want from my school district is to look at expenditures, conduct evaluation of impact, and make evidence-based decisions on whether to move forward. Based on the existing data, both the IS calendar and MVA need reconsideration. Outcomes are worse, which is not the direction we want to see in any educational experiment.

As for the allegation of cherry-picking, you have admitted to not reading the evaluation nor do you want to engage in discussion about excerpts. I know it is scary to face whatever fears you have about in-person schools, but I don't think MCPS can in good conscience continue with a program that sees kids falling further behind their peers.

Based off your post, then MCPS should be looking at every single school in the district and closing any that don't meet the minimum performance. There are plenty of schools that are below the MVA. They are basing it off an average of all MCPS students. So, you are correct, lets audit every school, not just the MVA.

lol. You should try making that case to the BOE. I’m sure it will be real effective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The resident virtual school lover must be losing her mind over the prospect of letting her kids leave her sight.

There's always homeschool!

Grow up and realize getting rid of VA just keeps MCPS back in the past while the rest of the world moves forward. Virtual options are available at districts all over the country.

This… it’s embarrassing that MoCo parents refuse to evolve because they are still angry about 2020.

+ 1000
MVA is one of very few things MCPS did right.

Really? I heard it wasn’t very good. Maybe that’s partly why enrollment has been dropping.

Not in the Middle/High School. There are two MVA families in our block - they have very happy and their kids are doing great.

I, on the other hand, could not be more dissatisfied with our local MS (Tilden) The only one good thing about it is their drama production Everything else is a complete waste of my tax money. I honestly think my kid would be better off homeschooled. Oh yeah, and our HS is overcrowded. So, guess where all those virtual students will go? Yup, in person to the school that is about to burst at seams. I wish MCPS actually spent their efforts on where they are needed.

Agreed. I think one of the reasons it works better for MS and HS is because classes are much smaller, kids aren’t as lost in the shuffle. And most students are more independent at that point. ES requires more parentental involvement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

MAP is also the test that the evaluators used to look at how MVA students were making progress compared to their peers attending in-person school.

"Students attending Virtual Academy in Grades 3, 4, and 5 were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022.

Within student service groups, MVA students receiving FARMS were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022, but EMLs did not differ between the two groups. Among Asian, Black or African American, White, and Hispanic/Latino students, MVA students were significantly less likely to meet projected reading growth compared with their inperson peers."

The other item that really stands out is chronic absences. Overall, absences in MS and HS were similar to in-person counterparts, but chronic absences among MVA kids were alarmingly high in the elementary grades in particular. Almost a quarter of MVA kids in 2nd - 5th grades were chronically absent. That's a shocking figure. If this were about mental or physical health, you'd expect the figures to be static across grades or even higher for MS and HS. The numbers being so high among the youngest kids suggests something else may be at play, either families enrolling in MVA to facilitate Disney trips in the off-season, or more nefarious motivations such as removing kids from the line of view of mandatory reporters.

Didn’t even read this. This forum is full of educational experts here. Yes! So with that logic let’s kick out all the chronically absent kids. At least I’d they aren’t going in person there is an option! And if you cared so much about mandated reporting where was the outcry with all the skipping last year? Did CPS get called with all the kids in person schools LOST the ability to locate? Where they called when students where doing illegal drugs in the bathroom and sexually assaulting students? You look ridiculous with your cherry picking about a program because virtual didn’t work for you. Go find a productive hobby.

We can't continue to fund a failing program based on vibes. If you refuse to engage with the data, I don't know what exle anyone can do, but MCPS has decided to evaluate three programs: MVA, IS, and LiM.

What I want from my school district is to look at expenditures, conduct evaluation of impact, and make evidence-based decisions on whether to move forward. Based on the existing data, both the IS calendar and MVA need reconsideration. Outcomes are worse, which is not the direction we want to see in any educational experiment.

As for the allegation of cherry-picking, you have admitted to not reading the evaluation nor do you want to engage in discussion about excerpts. I know it is scary to face whatever fears you have about in-person schools, but I don't think MCPS can in good conscience continue with a program that sees kids falling further behind their peers.

Right which is why any program that serves struggling students needs to be eliminated now! Test scores tank at alternative schools for violent or struggling students. End them now. Put all those students back in their neighborhood school where their low scores can be hidden. Don't serve them, don't educate them, hide them until they drop out. Success for the brand.
Bonus this keeps the repeat violent offenders in neighborhood schools where they can keep things hopping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

MAP is also the test that the evaluators used to look at how MVA students were making progress compared to their peers attending in-person school.

"Students attending Virtual Academy in Grades 3, 4, and 5 were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022.

Within student service groups, MVA students receiving FARMS were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022, but EMLs did not differ between the two groups. Among Asian, Black or African American, White, and Hispanic/Latino students, MVA students were significantly less likely to meet projected reading growth compared with their inperson peers."

The other item that really stands out is chronic absences. Overall, absences in MS and HS were similar to in-person counterparts, but chronic absences among MVA kids were alarmingly high in the elementary grades in particular. Almost a quarter of MVA kids in 2nd - 5th grades were chronically absent. That's a shocking figure. If this were about mental or physical health, you'd expect the figures to be static across grades or even higher for MS and HS. The numbers being so high among the youngest kids suggests something else may be at play, either families enrolling in MVA to facilitate Disney trips in the off-season, or more nefarious motivations such as removing kids from the line of view of mandatory reporters.

Didn’t even read this. This forum is full of educational experts here. Yes! So with that logic let’s kick out all the chronically absent kids. At least I’d they aren’t going in person there is an option! And if you cared so much about mandated reporting where was the outcry with all the skipping last year? Did CPS get called with all the kids in person schools LOST the ability to locate? Where they called when students where doing illegal drugs in the bathroom and sexually assaulting students? You look ridiculous with your cherry picking about a program because virtual didn’t work for you. Go find a productive hobby.

We can't continue to fund a failing program based on vibes. If you refuse to engage with the data, I don't know what exle anyone can do, but MCPS has decided to evaluate three programs: MVA, IS, and LiM.

What I want from my school district is to look at expenditures, conduct evaluation of impact, and make evidence-based decisions on whether to move forward. Based on the existing data, both the IS calendar and MVA need reconsideration. Outcomes are worse, which is not the direction we want to see in any educational experiment.

As for the allegation of cherry-picking, you have admitted to not reading the evaluation nor do you want to engage in discussion about excerpts. I know it is scary to face whatever fears you have about in-person schools, but I don't think MCPS can in good conscience continue with a program that sees kids falling further behind their peers.

Right which is why any program that serves struggling students needs to be eliminated now! Test scores tank at alternative schools for violent or struggling students. End them now. Put all those students back in their neighborhood school where their low scores can be hidden. Don't serve them, don't educate them, hide them until they drop out. Success for the brand.
Bonus this keeps the repeat violent offenders in neighborhood schools where they can keep things hopping.

Honey, none of this is equivalent and you know it. The VA is a niche program paid for by federal dollars that are running out. It’s up to you to convince MCPS to find a new source of funding. None of the arguments in this thread have been very convincing- we get that you like having your kids at home and the small classes but what do you think MCPS should cut to continue enabling this privilege?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

MAP is also the test that the evaluators used to look at how MVA students were making progress compared to their peers attending in-person school.

"Students attending Virtual Academy in Grades 3, 4, and 5 were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022.

Within student service groups, MVA students receiving FARMS were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022, but EMLs did not differ between the two groups. Among Asian, Black or African American, White, and Hispanic/Latino students, MVA students were significantly less likely to meet projected reading growth compared with their inperson peers."

The other item that really stands out is chronic absences. Overall, absences in MS and HS were similar to in-person counterparts, but chronic absences among MVA kids were alarmingly high in the elementary grades in particular. Almost a quarter of MVA kids in 2nd - 5th grades were chronically absent. That's a shocking figure. If this were about mental or physical health, you'd expect the figures to be static across grades or even higher for MS and HS. The numbers being so high among the youngest kids suggests something else may be at play, either families enrolling in MVA to facilitate Disney trips in the off-season, or more nefarious motivations such as removing kids from the line of view of mandatory reporters.

Didn’t even read this. This forum is full of educational experts here. Yes! So with that logic let’s kick out all the chronically absent kids. At least I’d they aren’t going in person there is an option! And if you cared so much about mandated reporting where was the outcry with all the skipping last year? Did CPS get called with all the kids in person schools LOST the ability to locate? Where they called when students where doing illegal drugs in the bathroom and sexually assaulting students? You look ridiculous with your cherry picking about a program because virtual didn’t work for you. Go find a productive hobby.

We can't continue to fund a failing program based on vibes. If you refuse to engage with the data, I don't know what exle anyone can do, but MCPS has decided to evaluate three programs: MVA, IS, and LiM.

What I want from my school district is to look at expenditures, conduct evaluation of impact, and make evidence-based decisions on whether to move forward. Based on the existing data, both the IS calendar and MVA need reconsideration. Outcomes are worse, which is not the direction we want to see in any educational experiment.

As for the allegation of cherry-picking, you have admitted to not reading the evaluation nor do you want to engage in discussion about excerpts. I know it is scary to face whatever fears you have about in-person schools, but I don't think MCPS can in good conscience continue with a program that sees kids falling further behind their peers.

Right which is why any program that serves struggling students needs to be eliminated now! Test scores tank at alternative schools for violent or struggling students. End them now. Put all those students back in their neighborhood school where their low scores can be hidden. Don't serve them, don't educate them, hide them until they drop out. Success for the brand.
Bonus this keeps the repeat violent offenders in neighborhood schools where they can keep things hopping.

Honey, none of this is equivalent and you know it. The VA is a niche program paid for by federal dollars that are running out. It’s up to you to convince MCPS to find a new source of funding. None of the arguments in this thread have been very convincing- we get that you like having your kids at home and the small classes but what do you think MCPS should cut to continue enabling this privilege?

Niche like programs for violent offenders. Yes the same. Such privilege! Put them back in neighborhood schools now!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

MAP is also the test that the evaluators used to look at how MVA students were making progress compared to their peers attending in-person school.

"Students attending Virtual Academy in Grades 3, 4, and 5 were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022.

Within student service groups, MVA students receiving FARMS were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022, but EMLs did not differ between the two groups. Among Asian, Black or African American, White, and Hispanic/Latino students, MVA students were significantly less likely to meet projected reading growth compared with their inperson peers."

The other item that really stands out is chronic absences. Overall, absences in MS and HS were similar to in-person counterparts, but chronic absences among MVA kids were alarmingly high in the elementary grades in particular. Almost a quarter of MVA kids in 2nd - 5th grades were chronically absent. That's a shocking figure. If this were about mental or physical health, you'd expect the figures to be static across grades or even higher for MS and HS. The numbers being so high among the youngest kids suggests something else may be at play, either families enrolling in MVA to facilitate Disney trips in the off-season, or more nefarious motivations such as removing kids from the line of view of mandatory reporters.

Didn’t even read this. This forum is full of educational experts here. Yes! So with that logic let’s kick out all the chronically absent kids. At least I’d they aren’t going in person there is an option! And if you cared so much about mandated reporting where was the outcry with all the skipping last year? Did CPS get called with all the kids in person schools LOST the ability to locate? Where they called when students where doing illegal drugs in the bathroom and sexually assaulting students? You look ridiculous with your cherry picking about a program because virtual didn’t work for you. Go find a productive hobby.

We can't continue to fund a failing program based on vibes. If you refuse to engage with the data, I don't know what exle anyone can do, but MCPS has decided to evaluate three programs: MVA, IS, and LiM.

What I want from my school district is to look at expenditures, conduct evaluation of impact, and make evidence-based decisions on whether to move forward. Based on the existing data, both the IS calendar and MVA need reconsideration. Outcomes are worse, which is not the direction we want to see in any educational experiment.

As for the allegation of cherry-picking, you have admitted to not reading the evaluation nor do you want to engage in discussion about excerpts. I know it is scary to face whatever fears you have about in-person schools, but I don't think MCPS can in good conscience continue with a program that sees kids falling further behind their peers.

Right which is why any program that serves struggling students needs to be eliminated now! Test scores tank at alternative schools for violent or struggling students. End them now. Put all those students back in their neighborhood school where their low scores can be hidden. Don't serve them, don't educate them, hide them until they drop out. Success for the brand.
Bonus this keeps the repeat violent offenders in neighborhood schools where they can keep things hopping.

Honey, none of this is equivalent and you know it. The VA is a niche program paid for by federal dollars that are running out. It’s up to you to convince MCPS to find a new source of funding. None of the arguments in this thread have been very convincing- we get that you like having your kids at home and the small classes but what do you think MCPS should cut to continue enabling this privilege?

The home schools are receiving money for students who don’t attend the school. There is a good place to start. Mcps wastes so much money. Lots of things to cut. They spend far more money on in person so maybe we should all go back to virtual to save money.


I wish life was as simple as you make it sound.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The resident virtual school lover must be losing her mind over the prospect of letting her kids leave her sight.

There's always homeschool!

Grow up and realize getting rid of VA just keeps MCPS back in the past while the rest of the world moves forward. Virtual options are available at districts all over the country.

This… it’s embarrassing that MoCo parents refuse to evolve because they are still angry about 2020.

+ 1000
MVA is one of very few things MCPS did right.

Really? I heard it wasn’t very good. Maybe that’s partly why enrollment has been dropping.

Not in the Middle/High School. There are two MVA families in our block - they have very happy and their kids are doing great.

I, on the other hand, could not be more dissatisfied with our local MS (Tilden) The only one good thing about it is their drama production Everything else is a complete waste of my tax money. I honestly think my kid would be better off homeschooled. Oh yeah, and our HS is overcrowded. So, guess where all those virtual students will go? Yup, in person to the school that is about to burst at seams. I wish MCPS actually spent their efforts on where they are needed.

Agreed. I think one of the reasons it works better for MS and HS is because classes are much smaller, kids aren’t as lost in the shuffle. And most students are more independent at that point. ES requires more parentental involvement.

Here’s the problem, you are guessing and basing things off how you perceived them to be vs reality. And, let’s say we take your narrative. That means MVA should get more, not less money.

All kids regardless need parental involvement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks really should click through the report on MVA because it doesn't look good, assuming one wants to take an evidence-based approach. At the very least, the VA needs to be revamped to address the issues detailed in the report.

The report is easy to read, and clearly laid out, even if it does seem it took MCPS quite a while to make it public. The biggest takeaway is that MVA is not working at the ES level in particular. Attendance is worse for MVA than in-person school, and testing outcomes are significantly worse.

At the MS and HS levels, chronic absenteeism is about the same as the in-school population, but that itself is alarming given the dismal state of attendance in general.

At best, the data would suggest that MVA is not an appropriate model for K-5.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/Virtual%20Academy%20FINAL.pdf

Some of t that data is not accurate as many families opted out if testing.

This doesn't make any sense, though. The report says that for MAP-M only about 11% of kids opted out of the test. So, of the 89% of MVA kids who did take the tests, there were statistically significant (in some cases very significant) differences for K-5 kids in particular.

So, unless the missing 11% is for some reason also the highest scoring 11%, the numbers still show that MVA isn't working for K-5, at least in terms of attendance and mastery of core academic subjects. There's no reason to believe that the 89% who did take the test is not statistically representative of the broader group and in fact much more reason to believe that the 11% who didn't test are more likely to be lower scorers than higher scorers.

Stop bringing up facts and data in response to the fever dream that the virtual academy is a worthwhile program

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

Naw. If MCPS decided to build a new experimental school a few years ago and I opted to roll the dice to attend, I wouldn’t be up in arms if attendance dropped 40% two years in a row and the system started asking whether it’s wise to keep the school open.

+1. Also, at the posters saying that the test scores are biased because high performing families opted out- you are shooting yourself in the foot. If your kids are doing so we’ll get them in there for the tests. Otherwise don’t complain about the data. MCPS can only use what it has in front of it.

You are right, we did shoot ourselves in the foot, but its a bunch of bad choices and if you are in the MVA for health reasons, its a bit concerning to send your child to a school, that you have no contact with, when no one is masking or taking basic precautions AND the school refuses to accommodate the concerns.

I thought the kids would be in a room by themselves taking the test? Not mingling with the unmasked masses.

That would make sense, but no, I was told they'd be in the large lunch room with everyone else. They could have had a separate room for all the virtual kids, but our school refused.

Can’t your kids wear masks? Worn correctly they are very effective. Oh well, too late now.

Mine always mask but it helps, it’s not 100 percent. And, thaton.y helps with airborne, not surface. Not everything is about Covid.

[Anonymous]

Whew boy. After reading through 17 pages of this thread it seems like the best arguments for keeping the virtual academy going in its current form are “my kid likes it” and “MCPS wastes money every day on other stuff so it should be able to waste money on this too”, not including the crazy arguments that I’m assuming the poster even knows are silly like “let’s close YOUR kid’s school and see how you like it”.

People might be willing to support the cause and support ya’ll if you had better things to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

MAP is also the test that the evaluators used to look at how MVA students were making progress compared to their peers attending in-person school.

"Students attending Virtual Academy in Grades 3, 4, and 5 were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022.

Within student service groups, MVA students receiving FARMS were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022, but EMLs did not differ between the two groups. Among Asian, Black or African American, White, and Hispanic/Latino students, MVA students were significantly less likely to meet projected reading growth compared with their inperson peers."

The other item that really stands out is chronic absences. Overall, absences in MS and HS were similar to in-person counterparts, but chronic absences among MVA kids were alarmingly high in the elementary grades in particular. Almost a quarter of MVA kids in 2nd - 5th grades were chronically absent. That's a shocking figure. If this were about mental or physical health, you'd expect the figures to be static across grades or even higher for MS and HS. The numbers being so high among the youngest kids suggests something else may be at play, either families enrolling in MVA to facilitate Disney trips in the off-season, or more nefarious motivations such as removing kids from the line of view of mandatory reporters.

Didn’t even read this. This forum is full of educational experts here. Yes! So with that logic let’s kick out all the chronically absent kids. At least I’d they aren’t going in person there is an option! And if you cared so much about mandated reporting where was the outcry with all the skipping last year? Did CPS get called with all the kids in person schools LOST the ability to locate? Where they called when students where doing illegal drugs in the bathroom and sexually assaulting students? You look ridiculous with your cherry picking about a program because virtual didn’t work for you. Go find a productive hobby.

We can't continue to fund a failing program based on vibes. If you refuse to engage with the data, I don't know what exle anyone can do, but MCPS has decided to evaluate three programs: MVA, IS, and LiM.

What I want from my school district is to look at expenditures, conduct evaluation of impact, and make evidence-based decisions on whether to move forward. Based on the existing data, both the IS calendar and MVA need reconsideration. Outcomes are worse, which is not the direction we want to see in any educational experiment.

As for the allegation of cherry-picking, you have admitted to not reading the evaluation nor do you want to engage in discussion about excerpts. I know it is scary to face whatever fears you have about in-person schools, but I don't think MCPS can in good conscience continue with a program that sees kids falling further behind their peers.

Right which is why any program that serves struggling students needs to be eliminated now! Test scores tank at alternative schools for violent or struggling students. End them now. Put all those students back in their neighborhood school where their low scores can be hidden. Don't serve them, don't educate them, hide them until they drop out. Success for the brand.
Bonus this keeps the repeat violent offenders in neighborhood schools where they can keep things hopping.

Honey, none of this is equivalent and you know it. The VA is a niche program paid for by federal dollars that are running out. It’s up to you to convince MCPS to find a new source of funding. None of the arguments in this thread have been very convincing- we get that you like having your kids at home and the small classes but what do you think MCPS should cut to continue enabling this privilege?

The home schools are receiving money for students who don’t attend the school. There is a good place to start. Mcps wastes so much money. Lots of things to cut. They spend far more money on in person so maybe we should all go back to virtual to save money.


I wish life was as simple as you make it sound.

In light of the data regarding how poorly the virtual academy has performed in actually educating children, this fortunately will never happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

MAP is also the test that the evaluators used to look at how MVA students were making progress compared to their peers attending in-person school.

"Students attending Virtual Academy in Grades 3, 4, and 5 were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022.

Within student service groups, MVA students receiving FARMS were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022, but EMLs did not differ between the two groups. Among Asian, Black or African American, White, and Hispanic/Latino students, MVA students were significantly less likely to meet projected reading growth compared with their inperson peers."

The other item that really stands out is chronic absences. Overall, absences in MS and HS were similar to in-person counterparts, but chronic absences among MVA kids were alarmingly high in the elementary grades in particular. Almost a quarter of MVA kids in 2nd - 5th grades were chronically absent. That's a shocking figure. If this were about mental or physical health, you'd expect the figures to be static across grades or even higher for MS and HS. The numbers being so high among the youngest kids suggests something else may be at play, either families enrolling in MVA to facilitate Disney trips in the off-season, or more nefarious motivations such as removing kids from the line of view of mandatory reporters.

Didn’t even read this. This forum is full of educational experts here. Yes! So with that logic let’s kick out all the chronically absent kids. At least I’d they aren’t going in person there is an option! And if you cared so much about mandated reporting where was the outcry with all the skipping last year? Did CPS get called with all the kids in person schools LOST the ability to locate? Where they called when students where doing illegal drugs in the bathroom and sexually assaulting students? You look ridiculous with your cherry picking about a program because virtual didn’t work for you. Go find a productive hobby.

We can't continue to fund a failing program based on vibes. If you refuse to engage with the data, I don't know what exle anyone can do, but MCPS has decided to evaluate three programs: MVA, IS, and LiM.

What I want from my school district is to look at expenditures, conduct evaluation of impact, and make evidence-based decisions on whether to move forward. Based on the existing data, both the IS calendar and MVA need reconsideration. Outcomes are worse, which is not the direction we want to see in any educational experiment.

As for the allegation of cherry-picking, you have admitted to not reading the evaluation nor do you want to engage in discussion about excerpts. I know it is scary to face whatever fears you have about in-person schools, but I don't think MCPS can in good conscience continue with a program that sees kids falling further behind their peers.

Right which is why any program that serves struggling students needs to be eliminated now! Test scores tank at alternative schools for violent or struggling students. End them now. Put all those students back in their neighborhood school where their low scores can be hidden. Don't serve them, don't educate them, hide them until they drop out. Success for the brand.
Bonus this keeps the repeat violent offenders in neighborhood schools where they can keep things hopping.

Honey, none of this is equivalent and you know it. The VA is a niche program paid for by federal dollars that are running out. It’s up to you to convince MCPS to find a new source of funding. None of the arguments in this thread have been very convincing- we get that you like having your kids at home and the small classes but what do you think MCPS should cut to continue enabling this privilege?

Niche like programs for violent offenders. Yes the same. Such privilege! Put them back in neighborhood schools now!!!

I’m sure parents would happily welcome your kids and those others participating in the virtual academy into their schools. And since these VA kids don’t pose a danger to the hundreds of other students attending school, I don’t see any problem with the va kids returning to in person schools. Not so for the violent offenders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

MAP is the only test that is allowed to be taken virtually. All other standardized tests have to be taken in person. Many opted out of those because the home schools all test on different days and it was very disruptive to their academic schedule as they missed VA classes to take the test and they usually were forced to sit in an empty room all by themselves all day. I wish some of you would allow a conversation to occur instead of picking up on one tiny nuance to justify your hate of a program that benefits students. Many students LOVE being home and learning. It would help if you asked a few. Even though the VA numbers are shrinking (mainly because of limited classes at the moment and home schools refusing to keep up their end of the bargain) it's still as large as some stand-alone elementary and middle schools here in the county. Could you imagine if we were talking about your child's school or magnet program shutting down? You all would be up in arms here. Try to have some empathy folks. I know you have it in you.

MAP is also the test that the evaluators used to look at how MVA students were making progress compared to their peers attending in-person school.

"Students attending Virtual Academy in Grades 3, 4, and 5 were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022.

Within student service groups, MVA students receiving FARMS were significantly less likely than their inperson peers to meet their projected growth in reading in Spring 2022, but EMLs did not differ between the two groups. Among Asian, Black or African American, White, and Hispanic/Latino students, MVA students were significantly less likely to meet projected reading growth compared with their inperson peers."

The other item that really stands out is chronic absences. Overall, absences in MS and HS were similar to in-person counterparts, but chronic absences among MVA kids were alarmingly high in the elementary grades in particular. Almost a quarter of MVA kids in 2nd - 5th grades were chronically absent. That's a shocking figure. If this were about mental or physical health, you'd expect the figures to be static across grades or even higher for MS and HS. The numbers being so high among the youngest kids suggests something else may be at play, either families enrolling in MVA to facilitate Disney trips in the off-season, or more nefarious motivations such as removing kids from the line of view of mandatory reporters.

Didn’t even read this. This forum is full of educational experts here. Yes! So with that logic let’s kick out all the chronically absent kids. At least I’d they aren’t going in person there is an option! And if you cared so much about mandated reporting where was the outcry with all the skipping last year? Did CPS get called with all the kids in person schools LOST the ability to locate? Where they called when students where doing illegal drugs in the bathroom and sexually assaulting students? You look ridiculous with your cherry picking about a program because virtual didn’t work for you. Go find a productive hobby.

We can't continue to fund a failing program based on vibes. If you refuse to engage with the data, I don't know what exle anyone can do, but MCPS has decided to evaluate three programs: MVA, IS, and LiM.

What I want from my school district is to look at expenditures, conduct evaluation of impact, and make evidence-based decisions on whether to move forward. Based on the existing data, both the IS calendar and MVA need reconsideration. Outcomes are worse, which is not the direction we want to see in any educational experiment.

As for the allegation of cherry-picking, you have admitted to not reading the evaluation nor do you want to engage in discussion about excerpts. I know it is scary to face whatever fears you have about in-person schools, but I don't think MCPS can in good conscience continue with a program that sees kids falling further behind their peers.

Love that you assume my kids are there. No, I just believe in equity.

lol. Tell me you don’t understand the meaning of equity without telling me you don’t understand the meaning of equity.