UVA rush

[Anonymous]

I’m the PP who asked what the promise is. Thank you for such a thorough answer. So it sounds like the benefit at the end of the process is an instant group of friends — one that doesn’t preclude you from getting to know others (non-sorority), and that probably ultimately helps you feel more secure since you know you always have a tight-knit group.

Appreciate it! Very different from my own experience, so the perspective is interesting.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am so curious about all of this. My SLAC also had no Greek life so I’m reading the thread trying to understand.

What is the promise, and the potential payoff, of this process? It seems like a ton of stress, and (as PPs have observed) it hands a great deal of power over one’s happiness to other people. Can someone with sorority experience articulate why it’s all (potentially) worthwhile?

The question is genuine, and I promise I won’t respond with judgement (though obviously I can’t promise that for everyone here).

First of all the only reason the rush process is "stressful" and kids end up "devastated" is because they want to be in the most popular sororities and, newsflash, the popular sororities cannot add everyone because everyone has a max quota. There are 14 sororities at UVA and about 1000 girls rushed. If everyone stayed in the process, they would all have found a home today. Very few people are cut out of the process entirely (literally probably a handful) and that is generally for rush infractions or poor behavior. One girl I know who was dropped from rush went into every house she didn't want saying "I am just here because they force me to be. I hate (XYZ sorority)". Guess what, you do that? You're not getting in anywhere. The reason there is so much heartbreak amongst rushees is that they are cut from what they perceive to be the popular houses. If they were more open minded, they'd be fine and find their people. It's just that teenagers/young adults weigh this popularity way too much. You can't change teenagers unfortunately and it's been like this forever.

If they are open minded, and truly happy to go where they are accepted and give those girls a chance, they will likely have a good experience. Once in a sorority, at UVA, each house is about 150+ - sisters so a whole new group of people to get to know. Ideally everyone is inclusive, has your back, supports you, all the while maintaining a fun social calendar that adds to your UVA experience. My DD is on the executive board of her sorority and it's a very big responsibility that she will put on her resume. She has a very strong and broad friend group and is never lonely.

So many kids when they come to UVA have trouble finding their tribe. This is a way to instantly go from maybe feeling a little uncertain with 1-2 close friends, to having 200 friends when you include the new pledge class into the houses size. I will say, my DD had a great hall first year and had tons of wonderful friends. They all ended up pledging different sororities and she is still friends with them and also has this entire big group of people added to that, who can help her with things like, mentoring, job search, someone to sit with in class and do work with. She can go over to the house at any time and hang out. You may say, "oh right she's paying for friends", but that is not it. Yes she is paying to be in the sorority (it is not a big expense in reality) but it's about broadening her experience at UVA in every way.

I often talk to her on the phone when she's walking to class in the morning. The entire time she's saying "hi" or "Hey" LOL to dozens of people as she walks and we talk. Every weekend she has plans. Every class she has someone to sit with. Every spring break, she has a group to go on a trip with. Every rush, she has the opportunity to meet more people. She often tells me "oh I know everyone" and I swear it seems like she does even at a school with what 15K undergrads?! I'd much rather that be her experience than feeling like she doesn't fit anywhere and being sad. Yes rush was awful for her at first as she was dropped from 90% of the places she wanted, but all along she liked this one sorority, that no other of her friends was interested in, and she ended up there. Knew absolutely no one on bid day. Was a bit sad about that actually. Make one friend in her pledge class, made another couple later in the week, and so on. Eventually had a solid and large group that she could rely on while pledging and beyond. It was alot of fun in retrospect for her and now she shares that advice with anyone who asks. Keep an open mind, keep going through the process and get to know the other options. You may find you like it, and even if it's not a "popular" option, give it a try!

I was also in a sorority at a very greek dominated school and I can't even imagine what it would have been like if I hadn't joined. Those girls are the ones who were in my wedding and still talk now, some 30 years later., even though we are geographically dispersed.

Thanks for listening haha. You asked!

Did your DD join your sorority as legacy or another? Does being legacy help?

Also, don’t follow the math. Sounds like pledge classes are about 50 girls so 50x14=700 so if all girls stayed in rush, wouldn’t 300 not find homes v all 1000?

The net net is that amount of girls that a sorority can add is based on the total number of PNMs that remain in the process through to the end. So if no one dropped out, the houses would be able to add more. That's one thing I don't think PNMs understand at all. If they stay in rush through to the end, the chapters will end up being allowed more bids. All of this is governed by an algorithm though that predicts based on past performance, so it already takes into account that a third will probably drop out and calculates the number each chapter can invite back in all rounds by using those metrics as well as the relative popularity (determined by return rate). If less girls dropped out however, more slots would be open for snap bids or COB at the very least.

No my DD did not join my sorority. She was interested in them and both of us are pretty salty still about it LOL but she got dropped after round robbins. Clearly being a legacy did not help at all. I thought it would at least give her one extra round as a courtesy but nope. It really means nothing at UVA. Several of her friends had the same experience.

Thank you for sharing this. For another that was not Greek it is all so foreign.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:PP again - to clarify, letting yourself be judged by your PEERS, basically on your looks and popularity.

As women, this happens, whether we allow it or not.

Sure - but in the case of rushing, you are *asking* for your peers to judge you in that way. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Kind of like a job interview? Or an application to a private school? Or maybe a tryout for a sports team? Or maybe a dance competition?

Yes, but in those cases the applicants are being judged by their skills, not by their looks.

Wow, you really believe that?

+1

We ruled out any school where Greek Life is important. 20%-30% of the school is just too high for us. We prefer a more academic experience.

Greek chapters usually have high GPA standards so this seems like an ignorant attitude.

PP’s child probably isn’t able to handle rushing and maintaining a good GPA. The Greek life isn’t for everybody.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:PP again - to clarify, letting yourself be judged by your PEERS, basically on your looks and popularity.

As women, this happens, whether we allow it or not.

Sure - but in the case of rushing, you are *asking* for your peers to judge you in that way. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Kind of like a job interview? Or an application to a private school? Or maybe a tryout for a sports team? Or maybe a dance competition?

Yes, but in those cases the applicants are being judged by their skills, not by their looks.

Wow, you really believe that?

+1

We ruled out any school where Greek Life is important. 20%-30% of the school is just too high for us. We prefer a more academic experience.

Greek chapters usually have high GPA standards so this seems like an ignorant attitude.

PP’s child probably isn’t able to handle rushing and maintaining a good GPA. The Greek life isn’t for everybody.

Ugh, you’re just as annoying as the “we” poster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here - these posts have all been helpful as my son goes through the rush process. He went from just going to the events to meet people to now considering joining a fraternity. He seems to be having fun, and this is a kid who was not so social in high school, so I assume he’s learning some new socialization skills. I raised the top tier question because parents were talking about it, but he’s never compared fraternities based on tiers. He’s looking at which ones he gets along with- so maybe we are all caught up in the tiers more than some/many of the students.

Sounds exactly like my DS! fraternity rush is way more fun than sorority rush!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This thread had me go down the rabbit hole of uva sorority IG pages. I went there in the late 90s. The pics make it look like it was exactly the same as it was then. Wasn’t my thing then and it really makes me wonder if it’s the place for DD.

Well, perhaps you can be a good parent, and tell your UVA student (like I did) about your concerns. I was President of my sorority back in the day. Huge. huge mistake. Both my kids know that. My UVA kid never pledged and never, ever went into one of the houses, which is easy because they are not on campus and only 30% participate.

Perhaps talk to your children and share your concerns instead of judging here. Lots of great students go to UVA and never participate - it's not like the big Greek houses in the south.

Meanwhile, my kid graduated UVA with highest honors and is overseas getting a doctorate. It can happen. Then law school. Imagine that.

There’s that adjective “only” again. 30% is a huge proportion. Your effort to be dismissive of its presence and influence is unconvincing… no, it’s not for everyone but the Greek system is omnipresent, influential, and mainstream. It’s probably the most popular activity on grounds — can you think of another activity that attracts 30% of the student population?

The activity of avoiding frats attracts 74 percent of the student population. So there’s your answer.

No, that’s it an answer. It sounds like some desperate attempt by you to downplay the significance of the Greek presence on grounds. So you obviously care a whole lot about the Greek system — you have this fantasy that it’s insignificant when the opposite is demonstrably true.

[Anonymous]

Do they still do hazing? I hope my child does not get involved in Greek life in any way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do they still do hazing? I hope my child does not get involved in Greek life in any way.

Of course there are some frats that haze when they are not supposed to. My DS was very concerned about it and it drove where he ended up. He had nothing but fun during his pledging.

[Anonymous]

So what are the top tier frats and stats at UVA? What about at Vandy and UNC?

[Anonymous]

Did the girls get their bids already? Radio slience from my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:This thread had me go down the rabbit hole of uva sorority IG pages. I went there in the late 90s. The pics make it look like it was exactly the same as it was then. Wasn’t my thing then and it really makes me wonder if it’s the place for DD.

Well, perhaps you can be a good parent, and tell your UVA student (like I did) about your concerns. I was President of my sorority back in the day. Huge. huge mistake. Both my kids know that. My UVA kid never pledged and never, ever went into one of the houses, which is easy because they are not on campus and only 30% participate.

Perhaps talk to your children and share your concerns instead of judging here. Lots of great students go to UVA and never participate - it's not like the big Greek houses in the south.

Meanwhile, my kid graduated UVA with highest honors and is overseas getting a doctorate. It can happen. Then law school. Imagine that.

There’s that adjective “only” again. 30% is a huge proportion. Your effort to be dismissive of its presence and influence is unconvincing… no, it’s not for everyone but the Greek system is omnipresent, influential, and mainstream. It’s probably the most popular activity on grounds — can you think of another activity that attracts 30% of the student population?

Oh, yes! that activity would be football! and marching band, pep bands, which attracts easily another 30 percent of the student body to attend, plus faculty, plus television rights

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If only the houses were transparent about judging the PNMs on their looks, $$$ and popularity, but they say they are choosing them because of their grades, leadership, social skills, etc…. I guess the houses have to say that to be in good graces with UVA.

Plus, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and most “beholders” seem to prefer Causasian features. This just reinforces one of the reasons why I think DEI should still be a thing. Not sure if we can say we are a “meritocratic’ society. That whole “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” is just a falacy when so many people are still getting “in” (name the institution if your choosing) because of their looks and connections.

Being chosen is ABSOLUTELY subjective. That's why their not transparent. (NP and Former VP of a sorority).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I would rather my daughter not join a sorority, but she really would like to be part of the greek system, so here we are, supporting her in this journey. What makes me sad, is that she can do all the right things: get good grades, community service, be outgoing, have leadership skills, yet she will be dropped for things that are completely out of her control: our family’s HHI, where she went to high school, what summer camps she attended (or not!), what her ethnic background is, what clothing brands she can afford, how “attactive” she is, where we “summer” (or not!). I know life is not fair, but I was hoping, as a society, we had moved on from discriminating people for these qualities.

It is naive to think this way. Society will always discriminate because humans are judgmental creatures and are naturally biased to protect and preserve attributes that match their own. Many people claim to be kind and inclusive but when really tested these same people will choose to protect and value the features of their own clan. If you feel that in your own life you haven’t judged others based on factors outside their control, I urge you to take a much closer look, you probably aren’t as virtuous as you believe yourself to be. Is this Allison?

NP. First, don't be a dick and try to identify a poster. You're a jerk for even saying someone's name.

Second, just because people "discriminate" or are inherently judgmental, doesn't excuse it or make it ok. We can hope to recognize our biases and be better people going forward. But, don't be so lazy to just excuse it on the basis that 'everyone does it." Lame. But, then again, you seem kind of lame. And, yep, that's a judgment. And one warranted by your post.

NP. I would add to this excellent comment: just because people are inherently judgmental doesn’t make it ok to institutionalize the discrimination, or to formalize it in organizations. People, individually, will always have their biases. Creating sanctioned groups that recognize and promote this is another thing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did the girls get their bids already? Radio slience from my kid.

yes, at 1 PM bid day started with all the sororities.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’ll give UVA this - their top tier ain’t about looks, it’s about money. There are cute, fun, brilliant girls in most of the houses.

Is it still the case that the DDD and St Elmo’s are mostly if not all the private school kids? Used to be the case so talking “top tier” was different depending on whether coming from private or not private as not private would not even consider or be considered by certain sororities/fraternities.

I just looked at their Instagram (yes I’m bored) and it appears that many of the girls in DDD are from out of state - places like Austin, Charleston, NYC, Newport Beach, Palm Beach. So, yes, I would say they appear to be of a certain demographic.

Wow i was a tridelt there over 20 years ago and it wasn’t like that. If anything it was more of a laid back/hippie vibe