College Football--Big Ten Expansion

[Anonymous]

Pac-12 Conference in trouble with no new TV deal & the UNIVERSITY of COLORADO is leaving the Pac-12 for the Big 12 next year. Arizona, ASU, & Utah are likely to follow U Colorado to the Big 12 Conference.

These moves will be quickly followed by the University of Washington & the University of Oregon leaving the Pac-12 for the Big Ten Conference. Then Stanford & UCal-Berkeley--if invited by the Big Ten Conference--will follow.

Notre Dame football is under increasing pressure to join a major football conference in order to generate comparable revenue & in order to be able to schedule meaningful opponents.

[Anonymous]

Can you imagine a conference with Stanford, Northwestern, Berkeley, Michigan, UCLA, and USC in it? Now that’s an academic and athletic powerhouse!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to highjack this thread, but Texas moving to the SEC is huge. "The UT athletic department is a self-sustaining operation. No public money is used for any aspect of UT athletics.'' And in total, specific to the football program, the University of Texas has $41.8 million in expenses (quite a budget) but $146.8 million in football revenue. And that profit of almost $105 million is the financial foundation for all other programs in the athletic department.

There are quite a few self sustaining athletic departments. That’s not unusual at all.

Can you post the self sustaining departments?

The schools getting the fat TV contracts through their leagues have self-sustaining Athletic departments. UT is not unique.

What is your definition of "unique"? There are only 22 self sustaining football programs the participate in D1 athletics. That is less than 10 percent of D1 public institutions.

These are the 22 schools who turned a profit in the athletic department without having to rely on student fees or other forms of support from the university (including government funds):


School
Total revenue
Generated revenue
Allocated revenue
Total expenses
Difference

Oregon
$122,394,483
$119,709,341
$2,685,142
$77,856,232
$41,853,109*

Alabama
$130,542,153
$125,562,153
$4,980,000
$98,961,214
$26,600,939

Penn State
$106,614,724
$106,614,724
$0
$88,041,921
$18,572,803

Michigan
$106,874,031
$106,640,861
$233,170
$89,133,850
$17,507,011

Oklahoma State
$106,362,128
$100,708,922
$5,653,206
$83,748,207
$16,960,715

Iowa
$88,735,093
$88,209,386
$525,707
$74,438,196
$13,771,190

Texas
$143,555,354
$143,555,354
$0
$130,436,534
$13,118,820

Oklahoma
$98,512,287
$98,512,287
$0
$87,678,199
$10,834,088

Georgia
$89,735,934
$86,533,389
$3,202,545
$77,250,831
$9,282,558

LSU
$111,030,795
$111,030,795
$0
$102,326,769
$8,704,026

Kansas State
$53,436,790
$50,201,682
$3,235,108
$42,337,682
$7,864,000

Florida
$117,104,407
$112,693,506
$4,410,901
$105,824,376
$6,869,130

Texas A&M
$82,774,133
$82,774,133
$0
$75,941,926
$6,832,207

Arkansas
$78,072,620
$76,377,647
$1,694,973
$71,801,905
$4,575,742

Purdue
$61,653,561
$61,653,561
$0
$58,365,143
$3,288,418

Michigan State
$83,545,892
$83,545,892
$3,348,785
$78,162,447
$2,034,660

Nebraska
$73,483,733
$73,483,733
$0
$71,738,068
$1,745,665

West Virginia
$62,030,104
$57,774,867
$4,255,237
$56,607,917
$1,166,950

Indiana
$69,287,811
$66,905,296
$2,382,515
$65,796,415
$1,108,881

Virginia Tech
$63,613,464
$56,706,913
$6,906,551
$55,738,633
$968,280

Ohio State
$123,174, 176
$123,174, 176
$0
$122,739,754
$434,422

Washington
$64,034,410
$61,851,895
$2,182,515
$61,640,598
$211,297
The chart is courtesy of USA Today.

Some places are, it seems, football factories first, and academic centers second (and barely at that).

Michigan has been, is, and always will be, and academic center first and foremost. It’s unique in that it does so many things so well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to highjack this thread, but Texas moving to the SEC is huge. "The UT athletic department is a self-sustaining operation. No public money is used for any aspect of UT athletics.'' And in total, specific to the football program, the University of Texas has $41.8 million in expenses (quite a budget) but $146.8 million in football revenue. And that profit of almost $105 million is the financial foundation for all other programs in the athletic department.

There are quite a few self sustaining athletic departments. That’s not unusual at all.

Can you post the self sustaining departments?

The schools getting the fat TV contracts through their leagues have self-sustaining Athletic departments. UT is not unique.

What is your definition of "unique"? There are only 22 self sustaining football programs the participate in D1 athletics. That is less than 10 percent of D1 public institutions.

These are the 22 schools who turned a profit in the athletic department without having to rely on student fees or other forms of support from the university (including government funds):


School
Total revenue
Generated revenue
Allocated revenue
Total expenses
Difference

Oregon
$122,394,483
$119,709,341
$2,685,142
$77,856,232
$41,853,109*

Alabama
$130,542,153
$125,562,153
$4,980,000
$98,961,214
$26,600,939

Penn State
$106,614,724
$106,614,724
$0
$88,041,921
$18,572,803

Michigan
$106,874,031
$106,640,861
$233,170
$89,133,850
$17,507,011

Oklahoma State
$106,362,128
$100,708,922
$5,653,206
$83,748,207
$16,960,715

Iowa
$88,735,093
$88,209,386
$525,707
$74,438,196
$13,771,190

Texas
$143,555,354
$143,555,354
$0
$130,436,534
$13,118,820

Oklahoma
$98,512,287
$98,512,287
$0
$87,678,199
$10,834,088

Georgia
$89,735,934
$86,533,389
$3,202,545
$77,250,831
$9,282,558

LSU
$111,030,795
$111,030,795
$0
$102,326,769
$8,704,026

Kansas State
$53,436,790
$50,201,682
$3,235,108
$42,337,682
$7,864,000

Florida
$117,104,407
$112,693,506
$4,410,901
$105,824,376
$6,869,130

Texas A&M
$82,774,133
$82,774,133
$0
$75,941,926
$6,832,207

Arkansas
$78,072,620
$76,377,647
$1,694,973
$71,801,905
$4,575,742

Purdue
$61,653,561
$61,653,561
$0
$58,365,143
$3,288,418

Michigan State
$83,545,892
$83,545,892
$3,348,785
$78,162,447
$2,034,660

Nebraska
$73,483,733
$73,483,733
$0
$71,738,068
$1,745,665

West Virginia
$62,030,104
$57,774,867
$4,255,237
$56,607,917
$1,166,950

Indiana
$69,287,811
$66,905,296
$2,382,515
$65,796,415
$1,108,881

Virginia Tech
$63,613,464
$56,706,913
$6,906,551
$55,738,633
$968,280

Ohio State
$123,174, 176
$123,174, 176
$0
$122,739,754
$434,422

Washington
$64,034,410
$61,851,895
$2,182,515
$61,640,598
$211,297
The chart is courtesy of USA Today.

Some places are, it seems, football factories first, and academic centers second (and barely at that).

So you’re saying that not one private university is self sustaining athletically? If so, Notre Dane needs to join the B1G tomorrow!

[Anonymous]

The Big Ten will not add anybody until they integrate and figure out UCLA and USC. The only schools that would fit and increase the massive payouts per school are Texas, Florida or Florida State, Notre Dame. That’s it. The B1G has locked down the major markets outside those and are rolling teams and games through major markets with huge Big Ten alumni bases. Any other addition will lose money for member schools. Now if the league could jettison Purdue, Michigan State and Northwestern there would be 3 spots open for Washington, Oregon and one of Arizona/Colorado or UNC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Big Ten will not add anybody until they integrate and figure out UCLA and USC. The only schools that would fit and increase the massive payouts per school are Texas, Florida or Florida State, Notre Dame. That’s it. The B1G has locked down the major markets outside those and are rolling teams and games through major markets with huge Big Ten alumni bases. Any other addition will lose money for member schools. Now if the league could jettison Purdue, Michigan State and Northwestern there would be 3 spots open for Washington, Oregon and one of Arizona/Colorado or UNC.

They will not be adding UVa all the big ten alumni in northern Va can see their school play inside the beltway at UMD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to highjack this thread, but Texas moving to the SEC is huge. "The UT athletic department is a self-sustaining operation. No public money is used for any aspect of UT athletics.'' And in total, specific to the football program, the University of Texas has $41.8 million in expenses (quite a budget) but $146.8 million in football revenue. And that profit of almost $105 million is the financial foundation for all other programs in the athletic department.

There are quite a few self sustaining athletic departments. That’s not unusual at all.

Can you post the self sustaining departments?

The schools getting the fat TV contracts through their leagues have self-sustaining Athletic departments. UT is not unique.

What is your definition of "unique"? There are only 22 self sustaining football programs the participate in D1 athletics. That is less than 10 percent of D1 public institutions.

These are the 22 schools who turned a profit in the athletic department without having to rely on student fees or other forms of support from the university (including government funds):


School
Total revenue
Generated revenue
Allocated revenue
Total expenses
Difference

Oregon
$122,394,483
$119,709,341
$2,685,142
$77,856,232
$41,853,109*

Alabama
$130,542,153
$125,562,153
$4,980,000
$98,961,214
$26,600,939

Penn State
$106,614,724
$106,614,724
$0
$88,041,921
$18,572,803

Michigan
$106,874,031
$106,640,861
$233,170
$89,133,850
$17,507,011

Oklahoma State
$106,362,128
$100,708,922
$5,653,206
$83,748,207
$16,960,715

Iowa
$88,735,093
$88,209,386
$525,707
$74,438,196
$13,771,190

Texas
$143,555,354
$143,555,354
$0
$130,436,534
$13,118,820

Oklahoma
$98,512,287
$98,512,287
$0
$87,678,199
$10,834,088

Georgia
$89,735,934
$86,533,389
$3,202,545
$77,250,831
$9,282,558

LSU
$111,030,795
$111,030,795
$0
$102,326,769
$8,704,026

Kansas State
$53,436,790
$50,201,682
$3,235,108
$42,337,682
$7,864,000

Florida
$117,104,407
$112,693,506
$4,410,901
$105,824,376
$6,869,130

Texas A&M
$82,774,133
$82,774,133
$0
$75,941,926
$6,832,207

Arkansas
$78,072,620
$76,377,647
$1,694,973
$71,801,905
$4,575,742

Purdue
$61,653,561
$61,653,561
$0
$58,365,143
$3,288,418

Michigan State
$83,545,892
$83,545,892
$3,348,785
$78,162,447
$2,034,660

Nebraska
$73,483,733
$73,483,733
$0
$71,738,068
$1,745,665

West Virginia
$62,030,104
$57,774,867
$4,255,237
$56,607,917
$1,166,950

Indiana
$69,287,811
$66,905,296
$2,382,515
$65,796,415
$1,108,881

Virginia Tech
$63,613,464
$56,706,913
$6,906,551
$55,738,633
$968,280

Ohio State
$123,174, 176
$123,174, 176
$0
$122,739,754
$434,422

Washington
$64,034,410
$61,851,895
$2,182,515
$61,640,598
$211,297
The chart is courtesy of USA Today.

Some places are, it seems, football factories first, and academic centers second (and barely at that).

Indiana is on that list and is not at all a football factory. It's a place where mediocre football players go to get injured by very, very good football players.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Big Ten will not add anybody until they integrate and figure out UCLA and USC. The only schools that would fit and increase the massive payouts per school are Texas, Florida or Florida State, Notre Dame. That’s it. The B1G has locked down the major markets outside those and are rolling teams and games through major markets with huge Big Ten alumni bases. Any other addition will lose money for member schools. Now if the league could jettison Purdue, Michigan State and Northwestern there would be 3 spots open for Washington, Oregon and one of Arizona/Colorado or UNC.

The Big Ten Conference will probably extend offers to the U Oregon & U Washington within a month or two; otherwise, Oregon & Washington may move to the Big 12 as the Pac-12 still to be negotiated TV rights deal is expected to be in the $20 million per university per year range--which is far below Big Ten & SEC payouts.

FSU is scrambling to find a way out of its ACC membership. Rumor is that FSU wants to join the Big Ten Conference. U Florida has also been rumored to be considering a move from the SEC to the Big Ten--but I suspect that stance is taken by U Florida to prevent the SEC from extending an invitation to in-state rival FSU. The state of Florida is a major producer of D-1 football recruits & U Florida wants to protect its turf for recruiting into the SEC.

U Texas isn't going to the Big Ten as that deal was nixed several years ago because Texas & Oklahoma wanted to move together as a package deal to preserve the rivalry & the Big Ten did not want U Oklahoma.

Purdue, Northwestern, & Michigan State will not be "jettisoned" from the Big Ten Conference. The Big Ten Conference is a research powerhouse conference and these schools are too valuable to lose. Northwestern & Purdue were among the 7 founding members of the Big Ten Conference in 1896 along with the University of Chicago. U Chicago withdrew in 1946 because it could not compete at the same level as the other member schools. Purdue, Northwestern, & Michigan State are able to compete in the conference although not with Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State regarding football.

Things may start to move quickly due to the Pac-12 Conference's inability to land a new TV deal. The University of Arizona is expected to follow the University of Colorado to the Big 12 Conference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to highjack this thread, but Texas moving to the SEC is huge. "The UT athletic department is a self-sustaining operation. No public money is used for any aspect of UT athletics.'' And in total, specific to the football program, the University of Texas has $41.8 million in expenses (quite a budget) but $146.8 million in football revenue. And that profit of almost $105 million is the financial foundation for all other programs in the athletic department.

There are quite a few self sustaining athletic departments. That’s not unusual at all.

Can you post the self sustaining departments?

The schools getting the fat TV contracts through their leagues have self-sustaining Athletic departments. UT is not unique.

What is your definition of "unique"? There are only 22 self sustaining football programs the participate in D1 athletics. That is less than 10 percent of D1 public institutions.

These are the 22 schools who turned a profit in the athletic department without having to rely on student fees or other forms of support from the university (including government funds):


School
Total revenue
Generated revenue
Allocated revenue
Total expenses
Difference

Oregon
$122,394,483
$119,709,341
$2,685,142
$77,856,232
$41,853,109*

Alabama
$130,542,153
$125,562,153
$4,980,000
$98,961,214
$26,600,939

Penn State
$106,614,724
$106,614,724
$0
$88,041,921
$18,572,803

Michigan
$106,874,031
$106,640,861
$233,170
$89,133,850
$17,507,011

Oklahoma State
$106,362,128
$100,708,922
$5,653,206
$83,748,207
$16,960,715

Iowa
$88,735,093
$88,209,386
$525,707
$74,438,196
$13,771,190

Texas
$143,555,354
$143,555,354
$0
$130,436,534
$13,118,820

Oklahoma
$98,512,287
$98,512,287
$0
$87,678,199
$10,834,088

Georgia
$89,735,934
$86,533,389
$3,202,545
$77,250,831
$9,282,558

LSU
$111,030,795
$111,030,795
$0
$102,326,769
$8,704,026

Kansas State
$53,436,790
$50,201,682
$3,235,108
$42,337,682
$7,864,000

Florida
$117,104,407
$112,693,506
$4,410,901
$105,824,376
$6,869,130

Texas A&M
$82,774,133
$82,774,133
$0
$75,941,926
$6,832,207

Arkansas
$78,072,620
$76,377,647
$1,694,973
$71,801,905
$4,575,742

Purdue
$61,653,561
$61,653,561
$0
$58,365,143
$3,288,418

Michigan State
$83,545,892
$83,545,892
$3,348,785
$78,162,447
$2,034,660

Nebraska
$73,483,733
$73,483,733
$0
$71,738,068
$1,745,665

West Virginia
$62,030,104
$57,774,867
$4,255,237
$56,607,917
$1,166,950

Indiana
$69,287,811
$66,905,296
$2,382,515
$65,796,415
$1,108,881

Virginia Tech
$63,613,464
$56,706,913
$6,906,551
$55,738,633
$968,280

Ohio State
$123,174, 176
$123,174, 176
$0
$122,739,754
$434,422

Washington
$64,034,410
$61,851,895
$2,182,515
$61,640,598
$211,297
The chart is courtesy of USA Today.

Some places are, it seems, football factories first, and academic centers second (and barely at that).

Indiana is on that list and is not at all a football factory. It's a place where mediocre football players go to get injured by very, very good football players.

Haha

[Anonymous]

Indiana University has a great undergraduate business school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Indiana University has a great undergraduate business school.

Wharton is great. Indiana is very good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Big Ten will not add anybody until they integrate and figure out UCLA and USC. The only schools that would fit and increase the massive payouts per school are Texas, Florida or Florida State, Notre Dame. That’s it. The B1G has locked down the major markets outside those and are rolling teams and games through major markets with huge Big Ten alumni bases. Any other addition will lose money for member schools. Now if the league could jettison Purdue, Michigan State and Northwestern there would be 3 spots open for Washington, Oregon and one of Arizona/Colorado or UNC.

Washington = Seattle
Oregon = Portland
UNC = Charlotte/Raleigh

I think those are some pretty big markets to lock up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Big Ten will not add anybody until they integrate and figure out UCLA and USC. The only schools that would fit and increase the massive payouts per school are Texas, Florida or Florida State, Notre Dame. That’s it. The B1G has locked down the major markets outside those and are rolling teams and games through major markets with huge Big Ten alumni bases. Any other addition will lose money for member schools. Now if the league could jettison Purdue, Michigan State and Northwestern there would be 3 spots open for Washington, Oregon and one of Arizona/Colorado or UNC.

Never happen--nor should it happen.

2022 average regular season viewership for each of the 8 schools (plus a few more) listed by the previous poster quoted above:

University of Oregon = 2,221,000 viewers average

Michigan State = 1,910,000 viewers average

Univ. of Washington = 1,150,000 viewers avg.

Northwestern University = 1,130,000 viewership average (and during a horrible 1-11 season)

Purdue = 870,000 avg. viewership

UNC = 849,000 avg. viewership (almost identical to Stanford number & to Syracuse))

U. Arizona = 506,000 avg. viewership

U. Colorado = 353,000 average viewership (also a horrible 1-11 season if I recall correctly)

Big Ten's Rutgers--NYC market--was at 618,000 avg. viewers

Univ. of Miami = 608,000 viewers avg.

Indicates that the University of Oregon is an attractive target school based on viewership numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Big Ten will not add anybody until they integrate and figure out UCLA and USC. The only schools that would fit and increase the massive payouts per school are Texas, Florida or Florida State, Notre Dame. That’s it. The B1G has locked down the major markets outside those and are rolling teams and games through major markets with huge Big Ten alumni bases. Any other addition will lose money for member schools. Now if the league could jettison Purdue, Michigan State and Northwestern there would be 3 spots open for Washington, Oregon and one of Arizona/Colorado or UNC.

Never happen--nor should it happen.

2022 average regular season viewership for each of the 8 schools (plus a few more) listed by the previous poster quoted above:

University of Oregon = 2,221,000 viewers average

Michigan State = 1,910,000 viewers average

Univ. of Washington = 1,150,000 viewers avg.

Northwestern University = 1,130,000 viewership average (and during a horrible 1-11 season)

Purdue = 870,000 avg. viewership

UNC = 849,000 avg. viewership (almost identical to Stanford number & to Syracuse))

U. Arizona = 506,000 avg. viewership

U. Colorado = 353,000 average viewership (also a horrible 1-11 season if I recall correctly)

Big Ten's Rutgers--NYC market--was at 618,000 avg. viewers

Univ. of Miami = 608,000 viewers avg.

Indicates that the University of Oregon is an attractive target school based on viewership numbers.

The above numbers are average viewership per week during the 12 game regular season 2022.

[Anonymous]

The average game viewership during the 12 game 2022 regular season lists all 119 D-1 football schools. 37 schools averaged over 1 million viewers per regular season game during 2022. Fifteen (15) schools averaged over 2 million viewers.

TV networks are buying viewership.

Notre Dame would be a great addition to any conference with average viewership of 3,300,000 (6th highest average viewership).

1) Ohio State = 5,800,000
2) Alabama = 5,110,000 (has little to do with the now out-dated standard of high population areas).
3) Michigan = 4,370,000
4) Tennessee = 4,130,000
5) Georgia = 3,500,000
6) Notre Dame = 3,300,000
7) LSU = 3,220,000
8) Texas = 3,060,000
9) Penn State = 3,050,000
10) Clemson = 2,590,000

11) U Florida = 2,570,000
12) U Oregon = 2,221,000
13) TCU = 2,220,000
14) USC = 2,070,000
15) FSU = 2,030,000
16) Nebraska = 1,980,000
17) Michigan State = 1,910,000
18) Texas A&M = 1,870,000
19) U Maryland = 1,864,000
20) Auburn = 1,863,000

Duke averages a paltry 115,700 viewers per regular season game in 2022. This, if accurate, is why Duke would not be considered by any major conference if the ACC collapses unless that conference wants to build basketball viewership.

Seven (7) ACC schools are actively seeking a viable way to exit the conference. Clemson & FSU want out of the ACC--along with 5 other schools (U Miami, UNC, NC State, Virginia, Virginia Tech).