VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week

[Anonymous]

I just checked VRBOs site and there are literally hundreds of listings up for sanibel island that can be booked immediately. What kind of idiotic business doesn’t stop booking units after the entire island has been shut down?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I can't find any info on the condition of the development I was going to stay in to judge its condition after Ian but I did find this video of a neighboring condo (~250 yards down the beach from my booking, which was also beachfront):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Sanibel/comments/xtvlde/footage_of_sanibel_siesta/

As to the contract, I can't even find an actual legal contract on VRBO for my booking. Does anyone know where on the website it is? All I see are the "cancellation policies" which is the standard "60 day policy":

- 100% refund of amount paid if you cancel at least 60 days before check-in
- No refund if you cancel less than 60 days before check-in

Where is the actual rental contract? I don't have it in my email from when I made the booking either.

Even if I go to make a new booking next year, at no point in the checkout process do I see a link to the actual contract (obviously I am not finalizing the checkout process).

I can find the general VRBO terms and conditions, but they relate to the VRBO platform and have nothing to do with the actual rental contract itself: https://www.vrbo.com/legal/terms-and-conditions

There is no VRBO "contract." If the owner has his/her own contract incorporated into their listing you are given a chance to see the contract and then agree to it when you make your booking. If the owner has no contract (other than their listed cancellation policy) that you agreed to when booking then each party is on their own as to whether a refund is appropriate. IN that circumstance the credit card company would seem to the entity that would make the ultimate decision.

If you accept payment via credit card, you've agreed that their agreements supersede yours

Absolutely not. If you have a binding agreement that clearly spells out the obligations of each party then the credit card company will stay out of the dispute -- as the terms of your private contract is binding. It is where there is no contract or the contract does not address the issue that the credit card company and its terms may come into play.

-a lawyer

Your credit card company goes by their merchant agreement in adjudicating a dispute and those clearly require refunds when services paid for are not provided

Not if in your contract you agreed to pay with no refunds or exceptions for Acts of God.

Amex's merchant agreement specifically prohibits those clauses

Source for that? As I recall from when I dealt with them, the only requirement was that refund policies be “fair” (which was not defined and thus could be considered ambiguous), clearly discolored and in compliance with applicable law.

"An Advance Payment Charge is a Charge for which full payment is made in advance of your providing the goods and/or rendering the services to the Cardmember.
Advance Payment Charge procedures are available for custom-orders (e.g., orders for goods to be manufactured to a customer's specifications), entertainment / ticketing (e.g., sporting
events, concerts, season tickets), tuition, room and board, and other mandatory fees (e.g. library fees) of higher educational institutions, airline tickets, vehicle rentals, rail tickets, cruise line
tickets, lodging, travel-related services (e.g., tours, guided expeditions). For an Advance Payment Charge, you must (i) state your full cancellation and refund policies, (ii) clearly disclose your
intent and obtain written consent from the Cardmember to bill the Card for an Advance Payment Charge before you request an Authorisation, which consent must include: (a) the
Cardmember's agreement to all the terms of the sale (including price and any cancellation and refund policies), and (b) a detailed description and the expected delivery date of the goods and /
or services to be provided (including, if applicable, expected arrival and departure dates); (iii) obtain an Authorisation Approval; (iv) complete a Charge Record. If the Advance Payment Charge
is a Card Not Present Charge, you must also ensure that the Charge Record contains the words “Advance Payment” and within twenty-four (24) hours of the Charge being incurred, provide the
Cardmember written confirmation (e.g., email or facsimile) of the Advance Payment Charge, the amount, the confirmation number (if applicable), a detailed description and expected delivery
date of the goods and / or services to be provided (including expected arrival and departure dates, if applicable) and details of your cancellation / refund policy. If you cannot deliver goods and /
or services (e.g., because custom-ordered merchandise cannot be fulfilled), and if alternate arrangements cannot be made, you must immediately issue a Credit for the full amount of the
Advance Payment Charge which cannot be fulfilled. In addition to our other Chargeback rights, we may Chargeback for any Disputed Advance Payment Charge or portion thereof if, in our sole
discretion, the dispute cannot be resolved in your favour based upon unambiguous terms contained in the terms of sale to which you obtained the Cardmember's written consent."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I can't find any info on the condition of the development I was going to stay in to judge its condition after Ian but I did find this video of a neighboring condo (~250 yards down the beach from my booking, which was also beachfront):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Sanibel/comments/xtvlde/footage_of_sanibel_siesta/

As to the contract, I can't even find an actual legal contract on VRBO for my booking. Does anyone know where on the website it is? All I see are the "cancellation policies" which is the standard "60 day policy":

- 100% refund of amount paid if you cancel at least 60 days before check-in
- No refund if you cancel less than 60 days before check-in

Where is the actual rental contract? I don't have it in my email from when I made the booking either.

Even if I go to make a new booking next year, at no point in the checkout process do I see a link to the actual contract (obviously I am not finalizing the checkout process).

I can find the general VRBO terms and conditions, but they relate to the VRBO platform and have nothing to do with the actual rental contract itself: https://www.vrbo.com/legal/terms-and-conditions

There is no VRBO "contract." If the owner has his/her own contract incorporated into their listing you are given a chance to see the contract and then agree to it when you make your booking. If the owner has no contract (other than their listed cancellation policy) that you agreed to when booking then each party is on their own as to whether a refund is appropriate. IN that circumstance the credit card company would seem to the entity that would make the ultimate decision.

If you accept payment via credit card, you've agreed that their agreements supersede yours

Absolutely not. If you have a binding agreement that clearly spells out the obligations of each party then the credit card company will stay out of the dispute -- as the terms of your private contract is binding. It is where there is no contract or the contract does not address the issue that the credit card company and its terms may come into play.

-a lawyer

Your credit card company goes by their merchant agreement in adjudicating a dispute and those clearly require refunds when services paid for are not provided

Not if in your contract you agreed to pay with no refunds or exceptions for Acts of God.

Amex's merchant agreement specifically prohibits those clauses

Source for that? As I recall from when I dealt with them, the only requirement was that refund policies be “fair” (which was not defined and thus could be considered ambiguous), clearly discolored and in compliance with applicable law.

"An Advance Payment Charge is a Charge for which full payment is made in advance of your providing the goods and/or rendering the services to the Cardmember.
Advance Payment Charge procedures are available for custom-orders (e.g., orders for goods to be manufactured to a customer's specifications), entertainment / ticketing (e.g., sporting
events, concerts, season tickets), tuition, room and board, and other mandatory fees (e.g. library fees) of higher educational institutions, airline tickets, vehicle rentals, rail tickets, cruise line
tickets, lodging, travel-related services (e.g., tours, guided expeditions). For an Advance Payment Charge, you must (i) state your full cancellation and refund policies, (ii) clearly disclose your
intent and obtain written consent from the Cardmember to bill the Card for an Advance Payment Charge before you request an Authorisation, which consent must include: (a) the
Cardmember's agreement to all the terms of the sale (including price and any cancellation and refund policies), and (b) a detailed description and the expected delivery date of the goods and /
or services to be provided (including, if applicable, expected arrival and departure dates); (iii) obtain an Authorisation Approval; (iv) complete a Charge Record. If the Advance Payment Charge
is a Card Not Present Charge, you must also ensure that the Charge Record contains the words “Advance Payment” and within twenty-four (24) hours of the Charge being incurred, provide the
Cardmember written confirmation (e.g., email or facsimile) of the Advance Payment Charge, the amount, the confirmation number (if applicable), a detailed description and expected delivery
date of the goods and / or services to be provided (including expected arrival and departure dates, if applicable) and details of your cancellation / refund policy. If you cannot deliver goods and /
or services (e.g., because custom-ordered merchandise cannot be fulfilled), and if alternate arrangements cannot be made, you must immediately issue a Credit for the full amount of the
Advance Payment Charge which cannot be fulfilled. In addition to our other Chargeback rights, we may Chargeback for any Disputed Advance Payment Charge or portion thereof if, in our sole
discretion, the dispute cannot be resolved in your favour based upon unambiguous terms contained in the terms of sale to which you obtained the Cardmember's written consent."

What are you quoting from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I can't find any info on the condition of the development I was going to stay in to judge its condition after Ian but I did find this video of a neighboring condo (~250 yards down the beach from my booking, which was also beachfront):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Sanibel/comments/xtvlde/footage_of_sanibel_siesta/

As to the contract, I can't even find an actual legal contract on VRBO for my booking. Does anyone know where on the website it is? All I see are the "cancellation policies" which is the standard "60 day policy":

- 100% refund of amount paid if you cancel at least 60 days before check-in
- No refund if you cancel less than 60 days before check-in

Where is the actual rental contract? I don't have it in my email from when I made the booking either.

Even if I go to make a new booking next year, at no point in the checkout process do I see a link to the actual contract (obviously I am not finalizing the checkout process).

I can find the general VRBO terms and conditions, but they relate to the VRBO platform and have nothing to do with the actual rental contract itself: https://www.vrbo.com/legal/terms-and-conditions

There is no VRBO "contract." If the owner has his/her own contract incorporated into their listing you are given a chance to see the contract and then agree to it when you make your booking. If the owner has no contract (other than their listed cancellation policy) that you agreed to when booking then each party is on their own as to whether a refund is appropriate. IN that circumstance the credit card company would seem to the entity that would make the ultimate decision.

If you accept payment via credit card, you've agreed that their agreements supersede yours

Absolutely not. If you have a binding agreement that clearly spells out the obligations of each party then the credit card company will stay out of the dispute -- as the terms of your private contract is binding. It is where there is no contract or the contract does not address the issue that the credit card company and its terms may come into play.

-a lawyer

Your credit card company goes by their merchant agreement in adjudicating a dispute and those clearly require refunds when services paid for are not provided

Not if in your contract you agreed to pay with no refunds or exceptions for Acts of God.

Amex's merchant agreement specifically prohibits those clauses

Link? What about Visa, Mastercard?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I can't find any info on the condition of the development I was going to stay in to judge its condition after Ian but I did find this video of a neighboring condo (~250 yards down the beach from my booking, which was also beachfront):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Sanibel/comments/xtvlde/footage_of_sanibel_siesta/

As to the contract, I can't even find an actual legal contract on VRBO for my booking. Does anyone know where on the website it is? All I see are the "cancellation policies" which is the standard "60 day policy":

- 100% refund of amount paid if you cancel at least 60 days before check-in
- No refund if you cancel less than 60 days before check-in

Where is the actual rental contract? I don't have it in my email from when I made the booking either.

Even if I go to make a new booking next year, at no point in the checkout process do I see a link to the actual contract (obviously I am not finalizing the checkout process).

I can find the general VRBO terms and conditions, but they relate to the VRBO platform and have nothing to do with the actual rental contract itself: https://www.vrbo.com/legal/terms-and-conditions

There is no VRBO "contract." If the owner has his/her own contract incorporated into their listing you are given a chance to see the contract and then agree to it when you make your booking. If the owner has no contract (other than their listed cancellation policy) that you agreed to when booking then each party is on their own as to whether a refund is appropriate. IN that circumstance the credit card company would seem to the entity that would make the ultimate decision.

If you accept payment via credit card, you've agreed that their agreements supersede yours

Absolutely not. If you have a binding agreement that clearly spells out the obligations of each party then the credit card company will stay out of the dispute -- as the terms of your private contract is binding. It is where there is no contract or the contract does not address the issue that the credit card company and its terms may come into play.

-a lawyer

Your credit card company goes by their merchant agreement in adjudicating a dispute and those clearly require refunds when services paid for are not provided

Not if in your contract you agreed to pay with no refunds or exceptions for Acts of God.

Amex's merchant agreement specifically prohibits those clauses

Source for that? As I recall from when I dealt with them, the only requirement was that refund policies be “fair” (which was not defined and thus could be considered ambiguous), clearly discolored and in compliance with applicable law.

"An Advance Payment Charge is a Charge for which full payment is made in advance of your providing the goods and/or rendering the services to the Cardmember.
Advance Payment Charge procedures are available for custom-orders (e.g., orders for goods to be manufactured to a customer's specifications), entertainment / ticketing (e.g., sporting
events, concerts, season tickets), tuition, room and board, and other mandatory fees (e.g. library fees) of higher educational institutions, airline tickets, vehicle rentals, rail tickets, cruise line
tickets, lodging, travel-related services (e.g., tours, guided expeditions). For an Advance Payment Charge, you must (i) state your full cancellation and refund policies, (ii) clearly disclose your
intent and obtain written consent from the Cardmember to bill the Card for an Advance Payment Charge before you request an Authorisation, which consent must include: (a) the
Cardmember's agreement to all the terms of the sale (including price and any cancellation and refund policies), and (b) a detailed description and the expected delivery date of the goods and /
or services to be provided (including, if applicable, expected arrival and departure dates); (iii) obtain an Authorisation Approval; (iv) complete a Charge Record. If the Advance Payment Charge
is a Card Not Present Charge, you must also ensure that the Charge Record contains the words “Advance Payment” and within twenty-four (24) hours of the Charge being incurred, provide the
Cardmember written confirmation (e.g., email or facsimile) of the Advance Payment Charge, the amount, the confirmation number (if applicable), a detailed description and expected delivery
date of the goods and / or services to be provided (including expected arrival and departure dates, if applicable) and details of your cancellation / refund policy. If you cannot deliver goods and /
or services (e.g., because custom-ordered merchandise cannot be fulfilled), and if alternate arrangements cannot be made, you must immediately issue a Credit for the full amount of the
Advance Payment Charge which cannot be fulfilled. In addition to our other Chargeback rights, we may Chargeback for any Disputed Advance Payment Charge or portion thereof if, in our sole
discretion, the dispute cannot be resolved in your favour based upon unambiguous terms contained in the terms of sale to which you obtained the Cardmember's written consent."

“and if alternate arrangements cannot be made” is doing a lot of work here (if this agreement even applies; there are different merchant agreements). Offering to let OP rebook the unit for a later date is an “alternative arrangement” for use of the unit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why hasn't OP come back to answer the simply question: has OP contacted the owner? What has the owner said?

Now I am starting to this OP is a troll, the one that likes to make up stories just to see how people respond.

OP did reply at some point up thread. They haven't been able to get in touch with the property manager and could not find any sort of email with a contract.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In this circumstance, OP would be happy to still go on vacation. The weather in Florida is fine this week. Unfortunately the host cannot offer a habitable property. OP isn't canceling, the host is canceling. The host should have hurricane insurance that includes coverage for lost revenue. OP should get a refund.

This is different from 2020 where the properties were habitable but guests were unable or choosing not to travel.

What. Does. The. Contract. Say?

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. x1000. I'm glad to see there are at least two of us here not crazy.

It's a rental agreement. Presumably it says that the hosts will provide the rental property in exchange for payment. It sounds like the hosts can't honor their end.

Oh my, no. It’s an agreement, yes. What does the agreement say? What did the owner promise? What did OP promise? Who bears the risk of a hurricane striking Sanibel? That controls. “Presumably” does not matter.

This is a message board, honey, presumably is what we've got unless the OP returns with actual language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that maybe legally OP is out the $. However, it’s just wrong for the owner to not refund the money given the condo is uninhabitable. It’s unethical and bad karma.

No, it isn’t. People get what they pay for in this context. People generally turn to VRBO or AirBNB when they don’t want to pay higher rates to rent a house through a rental company or pay for a hotel room/suite. But as the NYT article posted a page or two back shows, those bargains come with drawbacks. People who paid for hotels or rented through established rental agencies are generally getting refunds or credits for a future stay, because that’s one of the benefits you get when you pay more for these services/facilities. If you go the discount route *and* you go even cheaper by not buying trip insurance, you are getting the bargain you chose if you aren’t entitled to a refund, and there is nothing unethical about holding someone to their agreements.

VRBO and Air BnBs are generally NOT cheaper than renting through a rental company (usually renting via a rental company is cheaper). So you've got the wrong. The fees that both platforms now charge are outrageous.

Some owners rent exclusively via AirBnB and VRBO.

There is no discount. Have you even rented through them in the last few years?

we've rented from rental companies and they are terrible since reviews can't hold them accountable. Terrible meaning dirty, rooms not ready, safety maintenance issues. Where as VRBO and AIRBNB reviews keep both the owner and guest accountable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is from the article OP linked above in first post.

"However, should a host not cancel first, the situation becomes more complex, particularly with Airbnb, given its cancellation policy specifically excludes the annual storm season in Florida. Airbnb says that it offers refunds for “events beyond one’s control”, including some extreme weather events and natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, but despite this, the company deems tropical hurricanes and storms in the state between June and November to be “foreseeable” and its cancellation policy does not result in refunds under those circumstances.

Meanwhile, a Vrbo spokeswoman told The New York Times that “natural disasters, such as hurricanes or wildfires, do not override the cancellation policy set by the host and agreed to by the guest when they book”.

BUT this isn't a cancellation due to a hurricane. It is a cancellation because the condo is not habitable/destroyed/island is not available to non-owners. Definitely dispute with the credit card, airbnb are going to lose.

DP. You don’t know that the unit is uninhabitable, and you don’t know that it won’t be available to non-visitors next week. But all that aside, all of those issue absolutely do arise out of a hurricane and so very likely does fall within the scope of this policy.

So you’re saying if the house wasn’t inhabitable for other reasons, then the renter would be entitled to a refund? That makes no sense.

Sure it makes sense if hurricanes are specifically excluded, which it sounds like they are.

What's the time limit on this? Some VRBO and AirBnb reservations don't allow for cancelations after 24-36 hours. If a house was washed away in this hurricane and someone booked for next June, does the owner still keep the money if there is literally no house available? What if the house was damaged but the owner just can't be bothered to make needed repairs for 6 months because they get to keep all the rental fees anyways? That can't be right. The owner has an obligation to live up to their end of an agreement and provide a rental unit. It's not a blank check to cite a hurricane that happened in the past and keep the money.

You can complain to vrbo and airbnb if you get there and the house is not there or there are safety issues and they will force the owner to refund. If anyone could complain before coming then you'd see a lot of problems. The key is to either buy hurricane insurance or show up to the place and then complain. Pretty standard and makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is from the article OP linked above in first post.

"However, should a host not cancel first, the situation becomes more complex, particularly with Airbnb, given its cancellation policy specifically excludes the annual storm season in Florida. Airbnb says that it offers refunds for “events beyond one’s control”, including some extreme weather events and natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, but despite this, the company deems tropical hurricanes and storms in the state between June and November to be “foreseeable” and its cancellation policy does not result in refunds under those circumstances.

Meanwhile, a Vrbo spokeswoman told The New York Times that “natural disasters, such as hurricanes or wildfires, do not override the cancellation policy set by the host and agreed to by the guest when they book”.

BUT this isn't a cancellation due to a hurricane. It is a cancellation because the condo is not habitable/destroyed/island is not available to non-owners. Definitely dispute with the credit card, airbnb are going to lose.

DP. You don’t know that the unit is uninhabitable, and you don’t know that it won’t be available to non-visitors next week. But all that aside, all of those issue absolutely do arise out of a hurricane and so very likely does fall within the scope of this policy.

So you’re saying if the house wasn’t inhabitable for other reasons, then the renter would be entitled to a refund? That makes no sense.

Sure it makes sense if hurricanes are specifically excluded, which it sounds like they are.

What's the time limit on this? Some VRBO and AirBnb reservations don't allow for cancelations after 24-36 hours. If a house was washed away in this hurricane and someone booked for next June, does the owner still keep the money if there is literally no house available? What if the house was damaged but the owner just can't be bothered to make needed repairs for 6 months because they get to keep all the rental fees anyways? That can't be right. The owner has an obligation to live up to their end of an agreement and provide a rental unit. It's not a blank check to cite a hurricane that happened in the past and keep the money.

You can complain to vrbo and airbnb if you get there and the house is not there or there are safety issues and they will force the owner to refund. If anyone could complain before coming then you'd see a lot of problems. The key is to either buy hurricane insurance or show up to the place and then complain. Pretty standard and makes sense.

also the owner doesn't get paid for future bookings until he day of check-in so it doesn't matter because you don't know how the house will look in june

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In this circumstance, OP would be happy to still go on vacation. The weather in Florida is fine this week. Unfortunately the host cannot offer a habitable property. OP isn't canceling, the host is canceling. The host should have hurricane insurance that includes coverage for lost revenue. OP should get a refund.

This is different from 2020 where the properties were habitable but guests were unable or choosing not to travel.

What. Does. The. Contract. Say?

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. x1000. I'm glad to see there are at least two of us here not crazy.

It's a rental agreement. Presumably it says that the hosts will provide the rental property in exchange for payment. It sounds like the hosts can't honor their end.

Oh my, no. It’s an agreement, yes. What does the agreement say? What did the owner promise? What did OP promise? Who bears the risk of a hurricane striking Sanibel? That controls. “Presumably” does not matter.

This is a message board, honey, presumably is what we've got unless the OP returns with actual language.

Yes, I agree. You have nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VRBO is notorious for its terrible customer service. They want to put everything on the owners and provide little to no assistance. At the beginning of covid I had 2 friends who had to cancel reservations because of lockdown and the owners refused to refund the money. VRBO said it wasn't their problem.

To me this is a different situation. The house was there and available, but outside forces (pandemic) intervened and the renters cancelled.

In this scenario OP is presuming (rightly so) that the owner does not have a rentable property available as advertised. If there is no power, it is not an a/c property. If there is no running water it isn't a 2BA house with shower, toilet, dishwasher, etc. Heck, it may have foundation damage and not even be habitable. OP paid for a good that the owner almost certainly can't deliver.

Unless the contract says otherwise. We can speculate all we want but the key Q is what did OP promise?

Seems odd that a contract would force a renter to pay to rent a destroyed house on an unreachable island when they signed a contract for a fully functioning house with water, sewer, and electricity connected to the mainland with a bridge.

DP. You have no idea if the place OP rented was destroyed.

There is no safe drinking water on the island. The power grid is down and will be down for months. There is no way to access the island via a car.
The entire sewer system for the island is down and will be down for months.

Yes we all understand this. The discussion is whether or not OP’s rental agreement says the owner will refund due to an act of God or not. Most professional property management companies include this carve out.

There is literally no way for the owner of the property to fulfill their contractual obligations to OP. They cannot give her access to the house. This is the risk THEY run owning a vacation property in a hurricane-prone place.

Exactly this and nothing else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you need to read the agreement, remember landlords are people too with families to feed as well.

However, should a host not cancel first, the situation becomes more complex, particularly with Airbnb, given its cancellation policy specifically excludes the annual storm season in Florida. Airbnb says that it offers refunds for “events beyond one’s control”, including some extreme weather events and natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, but despite this, the company deems tropical hurricanes and storms in the state between June and November to be “foreseeable” and its cancellation policy does not result in refunds under those circumstances.

Meanwhile, a Vrbo spokeswoman told The New York Times that “natural disasters, such as hurricanes or wildfires, do not override the cancellation policy set by the host and agreed to by the guest when they book”.

Oh, cry me a river.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is from the article OP linked above in first post.

"However, should a host not cancel first, the situation becomes more complex, particularly with Airbnb, given its cancellation policy specifically excludes the annual storm season in Florida. Airbnb says that it offers refunds for “events beyond one’s control”, including some extreme weather events and natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, but despite this, the company deems tropical hurricanes and storms in the state between June and November to be “foreseeable” and its cancellation policy does not result in refunds under those circumstances.

Meanwhile, a Vrbo spokeswoman told The New York Times that “natural disasters, such as hurricanes or wildfires, do not override the cancellation policy set by the host and agreed to by the guest when they book”.

BUT this isn't a cancellation due to a hurricane. It is a cancellation because the condo is not habitable/destroyed/island is not available to non-owners. Definitely dispute with the credit card, airbnb are going to lose.

DP. You don’t know that the unit is uninhabitable, and you don’t know that it won’t be available to non-visitors next week. But all that aside, all of those issue absolutely do arise out of a hurricane and so very likely does fall within the scope of this policy.

YES, THEY DO. YOU NEED A BOAT TO GET TO THE ISLAND AND ONLY RESIDENTS ARE BEING ALLOWED IN LONG ENOUGH TO GET STUFF AND LEAVE.

And you’re claiming that “you don’t know that it won’t be available to non-visitors next week?” You’re delusional, just being contrary, or both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is from the article OP linked above in first post.

"However, should a host not cancel first, the situation becomes more complex, particularly with Airbnb, given its cancellation policy specifically excludes the annual storm season in Florida. Airbnb says that it offers refunds for “events beyond one’s control”, including some extreme weather events and natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, but despite this, the company deems tropical hurricanes and storms in the state between June and November to be “foreseeable” and its cancellation policy does not result in refunds under those circumstances.

Meanwhile, a Vrbo spokeswoman told The New York Times that “natural disasters, such as hurricanes or wildfires, do not override the cancellation policy set by the host and agreed to by the guest when they book”.

BUT this isn't a cancellation due to a hurricane. It is a cancellation because the condo is not habitable/destroyed/island is not available to non-owners. Definitely dispute with the credit card, airbnb are going to lose.

DP. You don’t know that the unit is uninhabitable, and you don’t know that it won’t be available to non-visitors next week. But all that aside, all of those issue absolutely do arise out of a hurricane and so very likely does fall within the scope of this policy.

So you’re saying if the house wasn’t inhabitable for other reasons, then the renter would be entitled to a refund? That makes no sense.

Sure it makes sense if hurricanes are specifically excluded, which it sounds like they are.

What's the time limit on this? Some VRBO and AirBnb reservations don't allow for cancelations after 24-36 hours. If a house was washed away in this hurricane and someone booked for next June, does the owner still keep the money if there is literally no house available? What if the house was damaged but the owner just can't be bothered to make needed repairs for 6 months because they get to keep all the rental fees anyways? That can't be right. The owner has an obligation to live up to their end of an agreement and provide a rental unit. It's not a blank check to cite a hurricane that happened in the past and keep the money.

In reality, this doesn’t happen because if renters show up and the property is uninhabitable, they will complaint to VRBO/Airbnb, likely get their money back under the policies, and the owner can be banned from using the service again. The issue right now is the timing where the owner may be in a bind because, if they cancel the reservation now but their unit would be inhabitable next week, their insurance won’t pay anything for the business income loss and it will all come out of their pocket. If the owner does not know what the status will be at the time of OP’s reservation next week but had reason to hope the unit will be inhabitable at that point, they basically need to keep the reservation unless/until they know it won’t be inhabitable for OP’s reservation. OP can wait and see what happens next week and hope the owner cancels first so she gets her refund, but if she goes ahead and cancels now, she may be stuck paying anyway.

Will the causeway be repaired by next week? Hard to believe the owner actually thinks tourists will be let on to the island in a week’s time…

The owner doesn’t need to believe this. VRBO’s policy excludes refunds for hurricanes in Florida.

Fortunately, credit card issuers require refunds when services paid for are not provided. Their contracts override VBRO contracts when there is a conflict (also in the credit card contracts)

Exactly.