Can states actually outlaw traveling out of state for an abortion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are those people who are fine with banning abortion as long as they have low taxes and will just drive their daughters to a blue state if they need an abortion? Will you still do that if there is a chance you could be charged with a crime? Or those people who are fine with their DDs going to a red state for college and coming home to get an abortion? If the state goes after her, are you ready to spend $$$ on legal fees?

+1 exactly - treat this seriously folks. When in Rome, Rome's laws apply. If you travel to an area of the country which makes abortion a crime, like murder, then you take some risk if you find yourself in that type of situation. Don't think you can somehow evade a state's laws because it looks easy to do so (mailing drugs, hopping on a flight, driving a car, etc).

Exactly. Where you want to live, move, vacation, or go on a work trip will be limited if you are now female and able to get pregnant.

What happens if you have health problems while pregnant and on a work trip or a vacation? What happens if you are date raped in a red state and then go back home to have an abortion? If life starts at conception, will women be able to take plan B after a rape?

I have a neighbor who has been posting on our neighborhood Facebook group that she has large supply of Plan B. I’m wondering if she’s putting herself at risk doing this.

Plan B is (currently) legal everywhere, since it works as a contraceptive and doesn't induce abortion. Outside of Plan B, I would not recommend broadcasting intent to help yourself or others evade or otherwise "work around" abortion laws. That includes offering travel assistance. Courts routinely have looked into the intent behind a particular activity - even if the activity is otherwise legal it can be made illegal if the intent was.

Interesting, thanks for the reply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think about all of the cars that cross over from Virginia to Maryland on the beltway during the morning and evening rush hour commutes. Probably hundreds of cars *per minute*. Would Virginia really force an epic logjam on the beltway so that every single female traveler could undergo a pregnancy test? The logistics of this is mind-boggling to me.

The logistics are easy to solve. If a woman who can get pregnant wishes to travel out of the no-abortion state into a state where abortion is legal, she needs a special travel permit stating she is not pregnant.

The permit is updated once monthly at the appropriate time, by stopping into any Minute Clinic or Rite aid and getting a test.. That's where her travel permit is stamped. A positive pregnancy test means her travel permit is confiscated.

Highways and streets into abortion states are patrolled randomly (like HOV lanes) and women can be pulled over and asked for their out of state travel permit. The punishment for being caught without a "I'm not pregnant" travel permit into a non-abortion state is severe enough to be a disincentive.

The fact that some conservative has thought enough about this to write it up is disturbing. Yet, here we are.

No, it was thought up by me, a pro-choice liberal. As I said, the logistics should not be the reason this doesn't come to pass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My neighbor’s daughter plays travel soccer in Virginia. Would she and her teammates have to get the pregnancy test/travel permit every time they have a tournament in Maryland?

The logistics aren't really the salient issue here.

The devil is ALWYs in the details. An unworkable law should be stopped before it starts and people get hurt. Like raped 10 year olds.

The objection shouldn't be that the law is unworkable (would cause traffic jams, be inefficient, etc), but rather that it denied a woman of her right to the decide how to use her own body, including traveling to end a pregnancy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are those people who are fine with banning abortion as long as they have low taxes and will just drive their daughters to a blue state if they need an abortion? Will you still do that if there is a chance you could be charged with a crime? Or those people who are fine with their DDs going to a red state for college and coming home to get an abortion? If the state goes after her, are you ready to spend $$$ on legal fees?

+1 exactly - treat this seriously folks. When in Rome, Rome's laws apply. If you travel to an area of the country which makes abortion a crime, like murder, then you take some risk if you find yourself in that type of situation. Don't think you can somehow evade a state's laws because it looks easy to do so (mailing drugs, hopping on a flight, driving a car, etc).

Exactly. Where you want to live, move, vacation, or go on a work trip will be limited if you are now female and able to get pregnant.

What happens if you have health problems while pregnant and on a work trip or a vacation? What happens if you are date raped in a red state and then go back home to have an abortion? If life starts at conception, will women be able to take plan B after a rape?

I have a neighbor who has been posting on our neighborhood Facebook group that she has large supply of Plan B. I’m wondering if she’s putting herself at risk doing this.

Plan B is (currently) legal everywhere, since it works as a contraceptive and doesn't induce abortion. Outside of Plan B, I would not recommend broadcasting intent to help yourself or others evade or otherwise "work around" abortion laws. That includes offering travel assistance. Courts routinely have looked into the intent behind a particular activity - even if the activity is otherwise legal it can be made illegal if the intent was.

Interesting, thanks for the reply.

Example to make clearer: i am driving a car with 3 passengers in it. Always legal right? Nope... not if those passengers were the ones that just robbed a bank and you the "getaway" driver in the group that planned a robbery (if you are a random uber or taxi driver and didnt know thats a defense of course). Now go to abortion.. you are the driver and friend of a pregnant woman across state lines who receives an abortion. The state (assuming they pass laws) charges you with abetting a murder! Which by the logic of anti abortion laws makes perfect sense. Its the intent of actions that matter. Same would eventually apply to corporations offering abortion travel assistance. If you dont think states will try to criminalize that too you are naieve

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are those people who are fine with banning abortion as long as they have low taxes and will just drive their daughters to a blue state if they need an abortion? Will you still do that if there is a chance you could be charged with a crime? Or those people who are fine with their DDs going to a red state for college and coming home to get an abortion? If the state goes after her, are you ready to spend $$$ on legal fees?

+1 exactly - treat this seriously folks. When in Rome, Rome's laws apply. If you travel to an area of the country which makes abortion a crime, like murder, then you take some risk if you find yourself in that type of situation. Don't think you can somehow evade a state's laws because it looks easy to do so (mailing drugs, hopping on a flight, driving a car, etc).

Exactly. Where you want to live, move, vacation, or go on a work trip will be limited if you are now female and able to get pregnant.

What happens if you have health problems while pregnant and on a work trip or a vacation? What happens if you are date raped in a red state and then go back home to have an abortion? If life starts at conception, will women be able to take plan B after a rape?

I have a neighbor who has been posting on our neighborhood Facebook group that she has large supply of Plan B. I’m wondering if she’s putting herself at risk doing this.

Plan B is (currently) legal everywhere, since it works as a contraceptive and doesn't induce abortion. Outside of Plan B, I would not recommend broadcasting intent to help yourself or others evade or otherwise "work around" abortion laws. That includes offering travel assistance. Courts routinely have looked into the intent behind a particular activity - even if the activity is otherwise legal it can be made illegal if the intent was.

Interesting, thanks for the reply.

Example to make clearer: i am driving a car with 3 passengers in it. Always legal right? Nope... not if those passengers were the ones that just robbed a bank and you the "getaway" driver in the group that planned a robbery (if you are a random uber or taxi driver and didnt know thats a defense of course). Now go to abortion.. you are the driver and friend of a pregnant woman across state lines who receives an abortion. The state (assuming they pass laws) charges you with abetting a murder! Which by the logic of anti abortion laws makes perfect sense. Its the intent of actions that matter. Same would eventually apply to corporations offering abortion travel assistance. If you dont think states will try to criminalize that too you are naieve

Texas already sent letters to businesses informing them it’s illegal and they need to stop helping their employees get abortions elsewhere. There was a thread here about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are those people who are fine with banning abortion as long as they have low taxes and will just drive their daughters to a blue state if they need an abortion? Will you still do that if there is a chance you could be charged with a crime? Or those people who are fine with their DDs going to a red state for college and coming home to get an abortion? If the state goes after her, are you ready to spend $$$ on legal fees?

+1 exactly - treat this seriously folks. When in Rome, Rome's laws apply. If you travel to an area of the country which makes abortion a crime, like murder, then you take some risk if you find yourself in that type of situation. Don't think you can somehow evade a state's laws because it looks easy to do so (mailing drugs, hopping on a flight, driving a car, etc).

Exactly. Where you want to live, move, vacation, or go on a work trip will be limited if you are now female and able to get pregnant.

What happens if you have health problems while pregnant and on a work trip or a vacation? What happens if you are date raped in a red state and then go back home to have an abortion? If life starts at conception, will women be able to take plan B after a rape?

I have a neighbor who has been posting on our neighborhood Facebook group that she has large supply of Plan B. I’m wondering if she’s putting herself at risk doing this.

Plan B is (currently) legal everywhere, since it works as a contraceptive and doesn't induce abortion. Outside of Plan B, I would not recommend broadcasting intent to help yourself or others evade or otherwise "work around" abortion laws. That includes offering travel assistance. Courts routinely have looked into the intent behind a particular activity - even if the activity is otherwise legal it can be made illegal if the intent was.

Interesting, thanks for the reply.

Example to make clearer: i am driving a car with 3 passengers in it. Always legal right? Nope... not if those passengers were the ones that just robbed a bank and you the "getaway" driver in the group that planned a robbery (if you are a random uber or taxi driver and didnt know thats a defense of course). Now go to abortion.. you are the driver and friend of a pregnant woman across state lines who receives an abortion. The state (assuming they pass laws) charges you with abetting a murder! Which by the logic of anti abortion laws makes perfect sense. Its the intent of actions that matter. Same would eventually apply to corporations offering abortion travel assistance. If you dont think states will try to criminalize that too you are naieve

Texas already sent letters to businesses informing them it’s illegal and they need to stop helping their employees get abortions elsewhere. There was a thread here about it.

Or what? I thought the vigilantes could sue for 10K? The business will just tie up the case in court, eventually pay the fine if they must and get on with it. They won't be able to compete if they don't support their employees.

[Anonymous]

And how do you think the public will react if hundreds of women get locked up? This decision is going to rip the US apart. Thank you Aliito and Thomas, you two misogynist pricks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yes the right will stop free travel between the states because they can. There will be check points and demands for papers at the border of the red states. SCOTUS will rubber stamp this.

No court would uphold that.

How do you figure that?

There is nothing anywhere or anytime in U.S. Constitutional history that would allow states to do that. Millions of people cross state lines every day. Think about rush hour in NYC, DC, Philly, Chicago, and many more cities. Airlines, Amtrak, etc. A fascist state couldn’t do it without shutting down interstate commerce. It isn’t logistically or legally possible for states to block people from leaving. The real laws they are enacting are enough to get riled up about.

I agree with you that some of these - pregnancy tests to drive over state lines, ankle monitoring, etc. won't come to pass but the point is there are laws that could be put in place that are harmful and terrifying. The most effective ones would be the bounty type laws already in place in TX (so the posters trying to gaslight us into thinking we are being hysterical can STFU because those laws are in the books). A provider could be too scared to help a pregnant woman in another state, because of restrictive laws, so even though a person in a red state COULD physically travel to across states freely, it could still be difficult to get an abortion.

And if you are too afraid to look up where you can get an abortion, or take off work at the restaurant where people suspect you have morning sickness....for fear of being reported....that would be enough to have a chilling effect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And how do you think the public will react if hundreds of women get locked up? This decision is going to rip the US apart. Thank you Aliito and Thomas, you two misogynist pricks.

Honestly this is our best hope. The law won't protect us, it will be horrible PR for the GOP.

'Mercia doesn't like to see pretty white girls and moms locked up. We just don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are those people who are fine with banning abortion as long as they have low taxes and will just drive their daughters to a blue state if they need an abortion? Will you still do that if there is a chance you could be charged with a crime? Or those people who are fine with their DDs going to a red state for college and coming home to get an abortion? If the state goes after her, are you ready to spend $$$ on legal fees?

+1 exactly - treat this seriously folks. When in Rome, Rome's laws apply. If you travel to an area of the country which makes abortion a crime, like murder, then you take some risk if you find yourself in that type of situation. Don't think you can somehow evade a state's laws because it looks easy to do so (mailing drugs, hopping on a flight, driving a car, etc).

Exactly. Where you want to live, move, vacation, or go on a work trip will be limited if you are now female and able to get pregnant.

What happens if you have health problems while pregnant and on a work trip or a vacation? What happens if you are date raped in a red state and then go back home to have an abortion? If life starts at conception, will women be able to take plan B after a rape?

I have a neighbor who has been posting on our neighborhood Facebook group that she has large supply of Plan B. I’m wondering if she’s putting herself at risk doing this.

Plan B is (currently) legal everywhere, since it works as a contraceptive and doesn't induce abortion. Outside of Plan B, I would not recommend broadcasting intent to help yourself or others evade or otherwise "work around" abortion laws. That includes offering travel assistance. Courts routinely have looked into the intent behind a particular activity - even if the activity is otherwise legal it can be made illegal if the intent was.

Interesting, thanks for the reply.

Example to make clearer: i am driving a car with 3 passengers in it. Always legal right? Nope... not if those passengers were the ones that just robbed a bank and you the "getaway" driver in the group that planned a robbery (if you are a random uber or taxi driver and didnt know thats a defense of course). Now go to abortion.. you are the driver and friend of a pregnant woman across state lines who receives an abortion. The state (assuming they pass laws) charges you with abetting a murder! Which by the logic of anti abortion laws makes perfect sense. Its the intent of actions that matter. Same would eventually apply to corporations offering abortion travel assistance. If you dont think states will try to criminalize that too you are naieve

Texas already sent letters to businesses informing them it’s illegal and they need to stop helping their employees get abortions elsewhere. There was a thread here about it.

Or what? I thought the vigilantes could sue for 10K? The business will just tie up the case in court, eventually pay the fine if they must and get on with it. They won't be able to compete if they don't support their employees.

Honestly, I think a vigilante style approach to the vigilantes would be very effective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And how do you think the public will react if hundreds of women get locked up? This decision is going to rip the US apart. Thank you Aliito and Thomas, you two misogynist pricks.

Honestly this is our best hope. The law won't protect us, it will be horrible PR for the GOP.

'Mercia doesn't like to see pretty white girls and moms locked up. We just don't.

GOP does not care. Plus it will not be bad PR because Fox News will spin it or not cover it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are those people who are fine with banning abortion as long as they have low taxes and will just drive their daughters to a blue state if they need an abortion? Will you still do that if there is a chance you could be charged with a crime? Or those people who are fine with their DDs going to a red state for college and coming home to get an abortion? If the state goes after her, are you ready to spend $$$ on legal fees?

+1 exactly - treat this seriously folks. When in Rome, Rome's laws apply. If you travel to an area of the country which makes abortion a crime, like murder, then you take some risk if you find yourself in that type of situation. Don't think you can somehow evade a state's laws because it looks easy to do so (mailing drugs, hopping on a flight, driving a car, etc).

Exactly. Where you want to live, move, vacation, or go on a work trip will be limited if you are now female and able to get pregnant.

What happens if you have health problems while pregnant and on a work trip or a vacation? What happens if you are date raped in a red state and then go back home to have an abortion? If life starts at conception, will women be able to take plan B after a rape?

I have a neighbor who has been posting on our neighborhood Facebook group that she has large supply of Plan B. I’m wondering if she’s putting herself at risk doing this.

Plan B is (currently) legal everywhere, since it works as a contraceptive and doesn't induce abortion. Outside of Plan B, I would not recommend broadcasting intent to help yourself or others evade or otherwise "work around" abortion laws. That includes offering travel assistance. Courts routinely have looked into the intent behind a particular activity - even if the activity is otherwise legal it can be made illegal if the intent was.

Interesting, thanks for the reply.

Example to make clearer: i am driving a car with 3 passengers in it. Always legal right? Nope... not if those passengers were the ones that just robbed a bank and you the "getaway" driver in the group that planned a robbery (if you are a random uber or taxi driver and didnt know thats a defense of course). Now go to abortion.. you are the driver and friend of a pregnant woman across state lines who receives an abortion. The state (assuming they pass laws) charges you with abetting a murder! Which by the logic of anti abortion laws makes perfect sense. Its the intent of actions that matter. Same would eventually apply to corporations offering abortion travel assistance. If you dont think states will try to criminalize that too you are naieve

Texas already sent letters to businesses informing them it’s illegal and they need to stop helping their employees get abortions elsewhere. There was a thread here about it.

Link please?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are those people who are fine with banning abortion as long as they have low taxes and will just drive their daughters to a blue state if they need an abortion? Will you still do that if there is a chance you could be charged with a crime? Or those people who are fine with their DDs going to a red state for college and coming home to get an abortion? If the state goes after her, are you ready to spend $$$ on legal fees?

+1 exactly - treat this seriously folks. When in Rome, Rome's laws apply. If you travel to an area of the country which makes abortion a crime, like murder, then you take some risk if you find yourself in that type of situation. Don't think you can somehow evade a state's laws because it looks easy to do so (mailing drugs, hopping on a flight, driving a car, etc).

Exactly. Where you want to live, move, vacation, or go on a work trip will be limited if you are now female and able to get pregnant.

What happens if you have health problems while pregnant and on a work trip or a vacation? What happens if you are date raped in a red state and then go back home to have an abortion? If life starts at conception, will women be able to take plan B after a rape?

I have a neighbor who has been posting on our neighborhood Facebook group that she has large supply of Plan B. I’m wondering if she’s putting herself at risk doing this.

Plan B is (currently) legal everywhere, since it works as a contraceptive and doesn't induce abortion. Outside of Plan B, I would not recommend broadcasting intent to help yourself or others evade or otherwise "work around" abortion laws. That includes offering travel assistance. Courts routinely have looked into the intent behind a particular activity - even if the activity is otherwise legal it can be made illegal if the intent was.

Interesting, thanks for the reply.

Example to make clearer: i am driving a car with 3 passengers in it. Always legal right? Nope... not if those passengers were the ones that just robbed a bank and you the "getaway" driver in the group that planned a robbery (if you are a random uber or taxi driver and didnt know thats a defense of course). Now go to abortion.. you are the driver and friend of a pregnant woman across state lines who receives an abortion. The state (assuming they pass laws) charges you with abetting a murder! Which by the logic of anti abortion laws makes perfect sense. Its the intent of actions that matter. Same would eventually apply to corporations offering abortion travel assistance. If you dont think states will try to criminalize that too you are naieve

What if a woman takes a taxi/Uber/Lyft to an abortion clinic? What happens to the driver?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are those people who are fine with banning abortion as long as they have low taxes and will just drive their daughters to a blue state if they need an abortion? Will you still do that if there is a chance you could be charged with a crime? Or those people who are fine with their DDs going to a red state for college and coming home to get an abortion? If the state goes after her, are you ready to spend $$$ on legal fees?

+1 exactly - treat this seriously folks. When in Rome, Rome's laws apply. If you travel to an area of the country which makes abortion a crime, like murder, then you take some risk if you find yourself in that type of situation. Don't think you can somehow evade a state's laws because it looks easy to do so (mailing drugs, hopping on a flight, driving a car, etc).

Exactly. Where you want to live, move, vacation, or go on a work trip will be limited if you are now female and able to get pregnant.

What happens if you have health problems while pregnant and on a work trip or a vacation? What happens if you are date raped in a red state and then go back home to have an abortion? If life starts at conception, will women be able to take plan B after a rape?

I have a neighbor who has been posting on our neighborhood Facebook group that she has large supply of Plan B. I’m wondering if she’s putting herself at risk doing this.

Plan B is (currently) legal everywhere, since it works as a contraceptive and doesn't induce abortion. Outside of Plan B, I would not recommend broadcasting intent to help yourself or others evade or otherwise "work around" abortion laws. That includes offering travel assistance. Courts routinely have looked into the intent behind a particular activity - even if the activity is otherwise legal it can be made illegal if the intent was.

Interesting, thanks for the reply.

Example to make clearer: i am driving a car with 3 passengers in it. Always legal right? Nope... not if those passengers were the ones that just robbed a bank and you the "getaway" driver in the group that planned a robbery (if you are a random uber or taxi driver and didnt know thats a defense of course). Now go to abortion.. you are the driver and friend of a pregnant woman across state lines who receives an abortion. The state (assuming they pass laws) charges you with abetting a murder! Which by the logic of anti abortion laws makes perfect sense. Its the intent of actions that matter. Same would eventually apply to corporations offering abortion travel assistance. If you dont think states will try to criminalize that too you are naieve

What if a woman takes a taxi/Uber/Lyft to an abortion clinic? What happens to the driver?

Id say it depends if the driver knows. Just like an uber driver picking up bank robbers after the heist is not liable if he doesnt know etc. But if the driver is aware and doing so voluntarily i would expect states to criminalize this as well since they woild view it as ading a crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are those people who are fine with banning abortion as long as they have low taxes and will just drive their daughters to a blue state if they need an abortion? Will you still do that if there is a chance you could be charged with a crime? Or those people who are fine with their DDs going to a red state for college and coming home to get an abortion? If the state goes after her, are you ready to spend $$$ on legal fees?

+1 exactly - treat this seriously folks. When in Rome, Rome's laws apply. If you travel to an area of the country which makes abortion a crime, like murder, then you take some risk if you find yourself in that type of situation. Don't think you can somehow evade a state's laws because it looks easy to do so (mailing drugs, hopping on a flight, driving a car, etc).

Exactly. Where you want to live, move, vacation, or go on a work trip will be limited if you are now female and able to get pregnant.

What happens if you have health problems while pregnant and on a work trip or a vacation? What happens if you are date raped in a red state and then go back home to have an abortion? If life starts at conception, will women be able to take plan B after a rape?

I have a neighbor who has been posting on our neighborhood Facebook group that she has large supply of Plan B. I’m wondering if she’s putting herself at risk doing this.

Plan B is (currently) legal everywhere, since it works as a contraceptive and doesn't induce abortion. Outside of Plan B, I would not recommend broadcasting intent to help yourself or others evade or otherwise "work around" abortion laws. That includes offering travel assistance. Courts routinely have looked into the intent behind a particular activity - even if the activity is otherwise legal it can be made illegal if the intent was.

Interesting, thanks for the reply.

Example to make clearer: i am driving a car with 3 passengers in it. Always legal right? Nope... not if those passengers were the ones that just robbed a bank and you the "getaway" driver in the group that planned a robbery (if you are a random uber or taxi driver and didnt know thats a defense of course). Now go to abortion.. you are the driver and friend of a pregnant woman across state lines who receives an abortion. The state (assuming they pass laws) charges you with abetting a murder! Which by the logic of anti abortion laws makes perfect sense. Its the intent of actions that matter. Same would eventually apply to corporations offering abortion travel assistance. If you dont think states will try to criminalize that too you are naieve

Texas already sent letters to businesses informing them it’s illegal and they need to stop helping their employees get abortions elsewhere. There was a thread here about it.

Link please?

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1069777.page

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/texas-gop-group-warns-sidley-partners-could-be-prosecuted-if-the-firm-pays-abortion-travel-costs

Links to thread and article. Apparently it would be a felony because of a pre roe law.