WSJ article on your child's chances of getting into an IVY are slim

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The young people I know who went to Ivy school have had mediocre career success post graduation. Some have gone back to school for JDs or masters, but there are people from much lesser schools in the same programs so WTF. Maybe Ivys are like most designer labels, they don't = quality.

I don’t think they do much for most of the kids. Parents just want bragging rights.

Yep, it's an ego thing for the parents mostly.

It’s a massive boost (graduating with an Ivy degree) for FGLI kids.

Any college is a massive boost for first gen. It doesn’t need to be Ivy.

Your kid doesn’t need to go to an Ivy, either, then.

I agree. They’re not. And I’m ok with that. I think ivy is overrated and the obsession with them is sick.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The young people I know who went to Ivy school have had mediocre career success post graduation. Some have gone back to school for JDs or masters, but there are people from much lesser schools in the same programs so WTF. Maybe Ivys are like most designer labels, they don't = quality.

I don’t think they do much for most of the kids. Parents just want bragging rights.

Yep, it's an ego thing for the parents mostly.

It’s a massive boost (graduating with an Ivy degree) for FGLI kids.

Any college is a massive boost for first gen. It doesn’t need to be Ivy.

Maybe in your mind, but the data shows other ways since most FGLI kids come out with debt unless they go to a top school.

Most kids come out with debt. I am the child of two college professors and graduated with debt.

Most kids of professors go to the school the parents teach at for tuition benefits.

I did for awhile. I transferred. The point is lots of people graduate with debt, even if their parents went to college.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn’t you want your kid to attend school with a mix of old-money blue bloods, the well-connected, super-duper smarties, the already well-accomplished, and a few under-privileged kids who may not come in with the tip top creds but are likely to thrive? Seems like a good mix. Fact is, a few unhooked kids do get into these schools and that they are surrounded by the mix described above is certainly to their advantage versus one based on hard metrics alone.


Of course it’s all academic if your unhooked kid is dinged, but I reason that the experience of the unhooked admits is no less a valid consideration than the unfortunate many rejects. I mean, if you manage to get in, you kind of want Harvard to be, well…“Harvard,” bastion of elite privilege and all, right? Why else are we dying to get in?

Sorry, but if my unhooked kids got into Harvard (fat chance), you better believe I want them to have well-connected old money peers! New money peers are great too! Fellow unhooked students are fine, but they aren’t really doing much for my kids.

Not going to be chumming around with others outside their class. Sorry. It so not like that with a few exceptions.

It can be hard on kids self esteem when they realize that there are much smarter and much richer people than they knew in HS. We know a HS valedictorian that was transformed at Harvard. I think it shocked him that it was a struggle. He went from being a big fish in a small pond, to being a guppy in a shark tank. He came out more humble, but more insecure.

unless you are the smartest or the richest, there is always someone better. Welcome to life at the top and bottom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see these kinds of kids getting bounced, and then OTOH I see a lot of top 20 colleges (including my own alma mater) offering pre-calculus classes for incoming students to complete the calculus sequence in 3 or 4 semesters. I’ve come down to just convincing my own kids to not even shoot for a top 20 university. Just get the best grades you can, prep for the SAT/ACT a reasonable amount, and do ECs they actually enjoy without worrying about cultivating a compelling personal narrative. The chips will fall where they will. Life is too short, and where you go to college is not that important to the outcome of ones life.

This has been our plan as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It used to be that attending Ivies meant you came from a certain social class.

For about three or four decades it meant you were among the brightest kids in the country.

Now it largely means you won the diversity lottery.

Which is fine but the degrees don’t carry as much weight.

The bolded sentences are the same time period.

This is such BS. Diversity lottery my a**. The kids I know personally going to Harvard and Yale are all white except for one. The majority are legacy or athletes or have a very famous, nationally known parent. The extracurriculars of the kids of the legacies and nationally known parents are no where near as impressive as the nonhooked kids. One of the unhooked white kids who was accepted actually distinguished themselves by doing something that got them national attention through their public service work. The other unhooked kid had more than one very strong leadership role at their school, distinguished themselves at a sport and exteacurriculars, and had a family member (not parent) who was connected to the school they were admitted too. If your kid is an excellent student like my unhooked white kid is, it is not the URM students that are getting in instead of your kid. It is the legacies, athletes, donor list, and faculty/admin kids who are getting in. Why do you think the schools are working over time to hide the data! Why do you think middle class and wealthy families are spending so much time on coaches and club/travel sports? They want the hook. That’s why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It used to be that attending Ivies meant you came from a certain social class.

For about three or four decades it meant you were among the brightest kids in the country.

Now it largely means you won the diversity lottery.

Which is fine but the degrees don’t carry as much weight.

The bolded sentences are the same time period.

This is such BS. Diversity lottery my a**. The kids I know personally going to Harvard and Yale are all white except for one. The majority are legacy or athletes or have a very famous, nationally known parent. The extracurriculars of the kids of the legacies and nationally known parents are no where near as impressive as the nonhooked kids. One of the unhooked white kids who was accepted actually distinguished themselves by doing something that got them national attention through their public service work. The other unhooked kid had more than one very strong leadership role at their school, distinguished themselves at a sport and exteacurriculars, and had a family member (not parent) who was connected to the school they were admitted too. If your kid is an excellent student like my unhooked white kid is, it is not the URM students that are getting in instead of your kid. It is the legacies, athletes, donor list, and faculty/admin kids who are getting in. Why do you think the schools are working over time to hide the data! Why do you think middle class and wealthy families are spending so much time on coaches and club/travel sports? They want the hook. That’s why.

All kids I know at Ivies are white, not all rich, but very driven, but not necessarily super smart/talented, but hard workers and yes LGBTQ members.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The young people I know who went to Ivy school have had mediocre career success post graduation. Some have gone back to school for JDs or masters, but there are people from much lesser schools in the same programs so WTF. Maybe Ivys are like most designer labels, they don't = quality.

I don’t think they do much for most of the kids. Parents just want bragging rights.

Yep, it's an ego thing for the parents mostly.

It’s a massive boost (graduating with an Ivy degree) for FGLI kids.

Any college is a massive boost for first gen. It doesn’t need to be Ivy.

But the connections that a first gen would get from the Ivy is massive vs the state school. Whereas for most at the ivies, they already have the ability to make those connections with their families position in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The young people I know who went to Ivy school have had mediocre career success post graduation. Some have gone back to school for JDs or masters, but there are people from much lesser schools in the same programs so WTF. Maybe Ivys are like most designer labels, they don't = quality.

I don’t think they do much for most of the kids. Parents just want bragging rights.

Yep, it's an ego thing for the parents mostly.

It’s a massive boost (graduating with an Ivy degree) for FGLI kids.

Any college is a massive boost for first gen. It doesn’t need to be Ivy.

But the connections that a first gen would get from the Ivy is massive vs the state school. Whereas for most at the ivies, they already have the ability to make those connections with their families position in life.

If you live in a wealthy neighborhood, your kids will meet a lot of white kids that will end up at Ivies. That's an alternate way to meet them - HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The young people I know who went to Ivy school have had mediocre career success post graduation. Some have gone back to school for JDs or masters, but there are people from much lesser schools in the same programs so WTF. Maybe Ivys are like most designer labels, they don't = quality.

I don’t think they do much for most of the kids. Parents just want bragging rights.

Yep, it's an ego thing for the parents mostly.

It’s a massive boost (graduating with an Ivy degree) for FGLI kids.

Any college is a massive boost for first gen. It doesn’t need to be Ivy.

But the connections that a first gen would get from the Ivy is massive vs the state school. Whereas for most at the ivies, they already have the ability to make those connections with their families position in life.

If you live in a wealthy neighborhood, your kids will meet a lot of white kids that will end up at Ivies. That's an alternate way to meet them - HS.

Alternately, if you send your kids to TJ they will only meet people that won't go to Ivy schools. Another reason to avoid TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The young people I know who went to Ivy school have had mediocre career success post graduation. Some have gone back to school for JDs or masters, but there are people from much lesser schools in the same programs so WTF. Maybe Ivys are like most designer labels, they don't = quality.

I don’t think they do much for most of the kids. Parents just want bragging rights.

Yep, it's an ego thing for the parents mostly.

It’s a massive boost (graduating with an Ivy degree) for FGLI kids.

Any college is a massive boost for first gen. It doesn’t need to be Ivy.

But the connections that a first gen would get from the Ivy is massive vs the state school. Whereas for most at the ivies, they already have the ability to make those connections with their families position in life.

If you live in a wealthy neighborhood, your kids will meet a lot of white kids that will end up at Ivies. That's an alternate way to meet them - HS.

Alternately, if you send your kids to TJ they will only meet people that won't go to Ivy schools. Another reason to avoid TJ.

Is this supposed to make us feel bad for the plight of poor, poor TJ students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The young people I know who went to Ivy school have had mediocre career success post graduation. Some have gone back to school for JDs or masters, but there are people from much lesser schools in the same programs so WTF. Maybe Ivys are like most designer labels, they don't = quality.

I don’t think they do much for most of the kids. Parents just want bragging rights.

Yep, it's an ego thing for the parents mostly.

It’s a massive boost (graduating with an Ivy degree) for FGLI kids.

Any college is a massive boost for first gen. It doesn’t need to be Ivy.

But the connections that a first gen would get from the Ivy is massive vs the state school. Whereas for most at the ivies, they already have the ability to make those connections with their families position in life.

If you live in a wealthy neighborhood, your kids will meet a lot of white kids that will end up at Ivies. That's an alternate way to meet them - HS.

Alternately, if you send your kids to TJ they will only meet people that won't go to Ivy schools. Another reason to avoid TJ.

Keep your head in the books unless you got dem' hooks!

[Anonymous]

"For students such as Ms. Younger, the odds are particularly long. She is a middle-class white female from a public high school in Texas who wants to study business."

I don't know about all of the schools to which she applied, but the ones that the author wants to highlight, like Stanford, Harvard, Yale and Brown do not offer an undergraduate business major (Penn and Cornell have undergraduate b-schools). For S, H, Y and B to reject makes sense, they are not a good fit for her and vice versa. She was poorly advised in college selection. I am sure she is a smart individual -- but she is being thrown out as evidence that smart, hardworking middle class white kids are turned down by top schools and the article does not make that case to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The record 11.8 percent admission rate for Harvard's class of 1999 is significantly lower than rates at other Ivy League schools, ...“

Has it ever been easy?

It’s never been easy for your typical kid. It’s always been significantly easier for connected kids.

I went to a NE boarding school. They told us that before about the 1990s, kids essentially signed up for HYP like you would an intramural softball team. It isn’t like that anymore, but my high school sends roughly 25% of its graduates each year to an Ivy League school. The process remains deeply unfair.

100% bullsh*t. Obama was rejected from all the Ivies in 1980 and had to transfer into Columbia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The record 11.8 percent admission rate for Harvard's class of 1999 is significantly lower than rates at other Ivy League schools, ...“

Has it ever been easy?

It’s never been easy for your typical kid. It’s always been significantly easier for connected kids.

I went to a NE boarding school. They told us that before about the 1990s, kids essentially signed up for HYP like you would an intramural softball team. It isn’t like that anymore, but my high school sends roughly 25% of its graduates each year to an Ivy League school. The process remains deeply unfair.

100% bullsh*t. Obama was rejected from all the Ivies in 1980 and had to transfer into Columbia.

There’s something about him that you’re omitting that would’ve been relevant in 1978-1980.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The young people I know who went to Ivy school have had mediocre career success post graduation. Some have gone back to school for JDs or masters, but there are people from much lesser schools in the same programs so WTF. Maybe Ivys are like most designer labels, they don't = quality.

I don’t think they do much for most of the kids. Parents just want bragging rights.

Yep, it's an ego thing for the parents mostly.

It’s a massive boost (graduating with an Ivy degree) for FGLI kids.

Any college is a massive boost for first gen. It doesn’t need to be Ivy.

But the connections that a first gen would get from the Ivy is massive vs the state school. Whereas for most at the ivies, they already have the ability to make those connections with their families position in life.

Delusional fantasy not based on reality. You think the billionaires like Jared Kushner at Harvard was hobnobbing around with first gen or poor or minority peers? Heck no.