WSJ article on your child's chances of getting into an IVY are slim

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The young people I know who went to Ivy school have had mediocre career success post graduation. Some have gone back to school for JDs or masters, but there are people from much lesser schools in the same programs so WTF. Maybe Ivys are like most designer labels, they don't = quality.

I don’t think they do much for most of the kids. Parents just want bragging rights.

Yep, it's an ego thing for the parents mostly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The young people I know who went to Ivy school have had mediocre career success post graduation. Some have gone back to school for JDs or masters, but there are people from much lesser schools in the same programs so WTF. Maybe Ivys are like most designer labels, they don't = quality.

I don’t think they do much for most of the kids. Parents just want bragging rights.

Yep, it's an ego thing for the parents mostly.

It’s a massive boost (graduating with an Ivy degree) for FGLI kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The record 11.8 percent admission rate for Harvard's class of 1999 is significantly lower than rates at other Ivy League schools, ...“

Has it ever been easy?

It’s never been easy for your typical kid. It’s always been significantly easier for connected kids.

I went to a NE boarding school. They told us that before about the 1990s, kids essentially signed up for HYP like you would an intramural softball team. It isn’t like that anymore, but my high school sends roughly 25% of its graduates each year to an Ivy League school. The process remains deeply unfair.

Is this typical of the higher end NE boarding schools? Do their students get preferred admissions? Looking at this now for my kid who is interested in going starting in 2023 to play a sport (he's been talking to the coach), so if we're going to consider that school, we'll likely consider others as well. Just curious because DH and I are public school graduates so this is all new.

My husband went to Hotchkiss in the 90s. Got into every Ivy. Chose UPenn. Can count on 1 hand how many people give a damn where he went to college.

Because an Ivy degree doesn’t add anything for someone coming from a background privileged enough to get them to Hotchkiss in the 90’s.

That’s exactly what the data shows — an Ivy degree does matter to kids from an underprivileged background, but not the privileged. The outcomes of the privileged would be the same from a state school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The young people I know who went to Ivy school have had mediocre career success post graduation. Some have gone back to school for JDs or masters, but there are people from much lesser schools in the same programs so WTF. Maybe Ivys are like most designer labels, they don't = quality.

I don’t think they do much for most of the kids. Parents just want bragging rights.

Yep, it's an ego thing for the parents mostly.

It’s a massive boost (graduating with an Ivy degree) for FGLI kids.

Any college is a massive boost for first gen. It doesn’t need to be Ivy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid had a 4.0UW at TJHSST, a 1580 SAT, double digit number of APs with 5s on all the exams, state-level academic awards, club leadership, varsity athlete, and didn't get into HYPSM.

Should I call the WSJ?

Agree 100%. There are so many of these "average excellent" students like the subject of the article with all the grade inflation in HSs nationwide, and the vast majority won't get into the Ivy League. Straight A's, solid extracurriculars and top test scores just don't cut it for most students. My daughter graduated TJHSST in 2018, had a superscored 1600 SAT and was also a 2 sport varsity athlete with first or second team all conference honors (but not good enough to play either sport in the Ivy League D1) and was likely in the top 10% of the class at TJ. She had an excellent guidance counselor at TJ who gave her good advice about her chances and how she should present herself to the colleges she applied to. She too was shut out of Stanford and the 3 Ivys she applied to but she wasn't surprised and took it in stride. Still she had a fantastic outcome and was accepted to Duke, UChicago and UVA Echols and is now a few weeks from graduating from Duke w/a great job waiting for her. She wouldn't have traded her 4 years at Duke for ANY of the Ivys at this point. Outside of the covid year, she loved her 4 years at Duke and the group of friends she made there.

Congratulations to your daughter but with all of the changes in admissions such as TO, emphasis on recruitment of first-gen and/or URM students, increasing #s of applications, etc. the high school class of 2018 admissions aren’t relevant.

so many posters here do not grasp the sea change in college admissions in just the last two years.

That inequality has widened in the past two years significantly? I agree.

perhaps i should have been more specific. colleges appear to be much more intentional in composing a class, paying more attention to where the future change makers may come from in society. or that leadership can come from more than varsity athletes. sadly it took a pandemic and a video capturing the murder of George Floyd to push admissions offices to shake up their criteria.

they better move fast. This is the last class year they have until the Supreme Court strikes it down

Strikes what down? Admitting kids who aren’t straight rich white males?

They are going to have to go race blind or owe money to aggrieved asian applicants every year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The young people I know who went to Ivy school have had mediocre career success post graduation. Some have gone back to school for JDs or masters, but there are people from much lesser schools in the same programs so WTF. Maybe Ivys are like most designer labels, they don't = quality.

I don’t think they do much for most of the kids. Parents just want bragging rights.

Yep, it's an ego thing for the parents mostly.

It’s a massive boost (graduating with an Ivy degree) for FGLI kids.

Any college is a massive boost for first gen. It doesn’t need to be Ivy.

Maybe in your mind, but the data shows other ways since most FGLI kids come out with debt unless they go to a top school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn’t you want your kid to attend school with a mix of old-money blue bloods, the well-connected, super-duper smarties, the already well-accomplished, and a few under-privileged kids who may not come in with the tip top creds but are likely to thrive? Seems like a good mix. Fact is, a few unhooked kids do get into these schools and that they are surrounded by the mix described above is certainly to their advantage versus one based on hard metrics alone.


Of course it’s all academic if your unhooked kid is dinged, but I reason that the experience of the unhooked admits is no less a valid consideration than the unfortunate many rejects. I mean, if you manage to get in, you kind of want Harvard to be, well…“Harvard,” bastion of elite privilege and all, right? Why else are we dying to get in?

Sorry, but if my unhooked kids got into Harvard (fat chance), you better believe I want them to have well-connected old money peers! New money peers are great too! Fellow unhooked students are fine, but they aren’t really doing much for my kids.

Not going to be chumming around with others outside their class. Sorry. It so not like that with a few exceptions.

It can be hard on kids self esteem when they realize that there are much smarter and much richer people than they knew in HS. We know a HS valedictorian that was transformed at Harvard. I think it shocked him that it was a struggle. He went from being a big fish in a small pond, to being a guppy in a shark tank. He came out more humble, but more insecure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid had a 4.0UW at TJHSST, a 1580 SAT, double digit number of APs with 5s on all the exams, state-level academic awards, club leadership, varsity athlete, and didn't get into HYPSM.

Should I call the WSJ?

Agree 100%. There are so many of these "average excellent" students like the subject of the article with all the grade inflation in HSs nationwide, and the vast majority won't get into the Ivy League. Straight A's, solid extracurriculars and top test scores just don't cut it for most students. My daughter graduated TJHSST in 2018, had a superscored 1600 SAT and was also a 2 sport varsity athlete with first or second team all conference honors (but not good enough to play either sport in the Ivy League D1) and was likely in the top 10% of the class at TJ. She had an excellent guidance counselor at TJ who gave her good advice about her chances and how she should present herself to the colleges she applied to. She too was shut out of Stanford and the 3 Ivys she applied to but she wasn't surprised and took it in stride. Still she had a fantastic outcome and was accepted to Duke, UChicago and UVA Echols and is now a few weeks from graduating from Duke w/a great job waiting for her. She wouldn't have traded her 4 years at Duke for ANY of the Ivys at this point. Outside of the covid year, she loved her 4 years at Duke and the group of friends she made there.

Congratulations to your daughter but with all of the changes in admissions such as TO, emphasis on recruitment of first-gen and/or URM students, increasing #s of applications, etc. the high school class of 2018 admissions aren’t relevant.

so many posters here do not grasp the sea change in college admissions in just the last two years.

That inequality has widened in the past two years significantly? I agree.

perhaps i should have been more specific. colleges appear to be much more intentional in composing a class, paying more attention to where the future change makers may come from in society. or that leadership can come from more than varsity athletes. sadly it took a pandemic and a video capturing the murder of George Floyd to push admissions offices to shake up their criteria.

they better move fast. This is the last class year they have until the Supreme Court strikes it down

Strikes what down? Admitting kids who aren’t straight rich white males?

They are going to have to go race blind or owe money to aggrieved asian applicants every year.

I hope they keep being aggrieved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid had a 4.0UW at TJHSST, a 1580 SAT, double digit number of APs with 5s on all the exams, state-level academic awards, club leadership, varsity athlete, and didn't get into HYPSM.

Should I call the WSJ?

Agree 100%. There are so many of these "average excellent" students like the subject of the article with all the grade inflation in HSs nationwide, and the vast majority won't get into the Ivy League. Straight A's, solid extracurriculars and top test scores just don't cut it for most students. My daughter graduated TJHSST in 2018, had a superscored 1600 SAT and was also a 2 sport varsity athlete with first or second team all conference honors (but not good enough to play either sport in the Ivy League D1) and was likely in the top 10% of the class at TJ. She had an excellent guidance counselor at TJ who gave her good advice about her chances and how she should present herself to the colleges she applied to. She too was shut out of Stanford and the 3 Ivys she applied to but she wasn't surprised and took it in stride. Still she had a fantastic outcome and was accepted to Duke, UChicago and UVA Echols and is now a few weeks from graduating from Duke w/a great job waiting for her. She wouldn't have traded her 4 years at Duke for ANY of the Ivys at this point. Outside of the covid year, she loved her 4 years at Duke and the group of friends she made there.

Congratulations to your daughter but with all of the changes in admissions such as TO, emphasis on recruitment of first-gen and/or URM students, increasing #s of applications, etc. the high school class of 2018 admissions aren’t relevant.

so many posters here do not grasp the sea change in college admissions in just the last two years.

That inequality has widened in the past two years significantly? I agree.

perhaps i should have been more specific. colleges appear to be much more intentional in composing a class, paying more attention to where the future change makers may come from in society. or that leadership can come from more than varsity athletes. sadly it took a pandemic and a video capturing the murder of George Floyd to push admissions offices to shake up their criteria.

they better move fast. This is the last class year they have until the Supreme Court strikes it down

Strikes what down? Admitting kids who aren’t straight rich white males?

They are going to have to go race blind or owe money to aggrieved asian applicants every year. [/quote

Maybe Asians should start their own Ivy school and forget about the others. The best test-takers in the world would be admitted, cheating would be a religion and everyone gets a Ivy degree as a prize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Things may have changed a lot since the pandemic, but the odds just didn't seem very daunting for my DD and her peers. DD's friends spanned a number of local public and private high schools and they were all very strong academically since middle school (no recruited athletes). All took the hardest courses available and scored really well on the tests. They were also the active, loud, pushy students who knew how to win over teachers (who write the recs) and reinvigorate the ECs they ran. The ones who got their first choice or multiple Ivy admits were the ones who did the free competitive summer programs (RSI, NSLI-Y, TASP) . The legacy who applied early were about 50/50, but not too many admissions in the RD round (most of DD's set were legacy at one of the Ivies). And, not everyone with an Ivy admit chose the school. Many preferred the SLACs or a women's college. It's just college - lots of places to get a great education in a kids preferred environment.

LOlL. You buried the lede.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid had a 4.0UW at TJHSST, a 1580 SAT, double digit number of APs with 5s on all the exams, state-level academic awards, club leadership, varsity athlete, and didn't get into HYPSM.

Should I call the WSJ?

Agree 100%. There are so many of these "average excellent" students like the subject of the article with all the grade inflation in HSs nationwide, and the vast majority won't get into the Ivy League. Straight A's, solid extracurriculars and top test scores just don't cut it for most students. My daughter graduated TJHSST in 2018, had a superscored 1600 SAT and was also a 2 sport varsity athlete with first or second team all conference honors (but not good enough to play either sport in the Ivy League D1) and was likely in the top 10% of the class at TJ. She had an excellent guidance counselor at TJ who gave her good advice about her chances and how she should present herself to the colleges she applied to. She too was shut out of Stanford and the 3 Ivys she applied to but she wasn't surprised and took it in stride. Still she had a fantastic outcome and was accepted to Duke, UChicago and UVA Echols and is now a few weeks from graduating from Duke w/a great job waiting for her. She wouldn't have traded her 4 years at Duke for ANY of the Ivys at this point. Outside of the covid year, she loved her 4 years at Duke and the group of friends she made there.

Congratulations to your daughter but with all of the changes in admissions such as TO, emphasis on recruitment of first-gen and/or URM students, increasing #s of applications, etc. the high school class of 2018 admissions aren’t relevant.

so many posters here do not grasp the sea change in college admissions in just the last two years.

That inequality has widened in the past two years significantly? I agree.

perhaps i should have been more specific. colleges appear to be much more intentional in composing a class, paying more attention to where the future change makers may come from in society. or that leadership can come from more than varsity athletes. sadly it took a pandemic and a video capturing the murder of George Floyd to push admissions offices to shake up their criteria.

they better move fast. This is the last class year they have until the Supreme Court strikes it down

Strikes what down? Admitting kids who aren’t straight rich white males?

They are going to have to go race blind or owe money to aggrieved asian applicants every year.

I hope they keep being aggrieved.

They need an Ivy University of Phoenix.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The young people I know who went to Ivy school have had mediocre career success post graduation. Some have gone back to school for JDs or masters, but there are people from much lesser schools in the same programs so WTF. Maybe Ivys are like most designer labels, they don't = quality.

I don’t think they do much for most of the kids. Parents just want bragging rights.

Yep, it's an ego thing for the parents mostly.

It’s a massive boost (graduating with an Ivy degree) for FGLI kids.

Any college is a massive boost for first gen. It doesn’t need to be Ivy.

Maybe in your mind, but the data shows other ways since most FGLI kids come out with debt unless they go to a top school.

Most kids come out with debt. I am the child of two college professors and graduated with debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The young people I know who went to Ivy school have had mediocre career success post graduation. Some have gone back to school for JDs or masters, but there are people from much lesser schools in the same programs so WTF. Maybe Ivys are like most designer labels, they don't = quality.

I don’t think they do much for most of the kids. Parents just want bragging rights.

Yep, it's an ego thing for the parents mostly.

It’s a massive boost (graduating with an Ivy degree) for FGLI kids.

Any college is a massive boost for first gen. It doesn’t need to be Ivy.

Maybe in your mind, but the data shows other ways since most FGLI kids come out with debt unless they go to a top school.

Most kids come out with debt. I am the child of two college professors and graduated with debt.

Not at Harvard where it’s free for under a certain income.

The data is clear: FGLI kids get the biggest boost out of going to top schools than they would going elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The young people I know who went to Ivy school have had mediocre career success post graduation. Some have gone back to school for JDs or masters, but there are people from much lesser schools in the same programs so WTF. Maybe Ivys are like most designer labels, they don't = quality.

I don’t think they do much for most of the kids. Parents just want bragging rights.

Yep, it's an ego thing for the parents mostly.

It’s a massive boost (graduating with an Ivy degree) for FGLI kids.

Any college is a massive boost for first gen. It doesn’t need to be Ivy.

Your kid doesn’t need to go to an Ivy, either, then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The young people I know who went to Ivy school have had mediocre career success post graduation. Some have gone back to school for JDs or masters, but there are people from much lesser schools in the same programs so WTF. Maybe Ivys are like most designer labels, they don't = quality.

I don’t think they do much for most of the kids. Parents just want bragging rights.

Yep, it's an ego thing for the parents mostly.

It’s a massive boost (graduating with an Ivy degree) for FGLI kids.

Any college is a massive boost for first gen. It doesn’t need to be Ivy.

Maybe in your mind, but the data shows other ways since most FGLI kids come out with debt unless they go to a top school.

Most kids come out with debt. I am the child of two college professors and graduated with debt.

Most kids of professors go to the school the parents teach at for tuition benefits.