Another Black Eye for Penn

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is the mom's boyfriend:
https://stlsportspage.com/2022/01/17/henry-lovelace-owner-of-wild-horse-fitness-passes-away/

Interesting choice for a respected doctor. Anyhow, this is the man she trusted over her daughter. And called the police on in a separate event. This article says he was hard on his clients. He did train with Mackenzie. Do you all believe he was 100% appropriate with her? Does the mom claim the forcible touching did not happen? If so, I missed that.

I’m no fan of tattoos but how can you read that and not come away that he seems like a good man with a decades-long career and two adult kids and even an ex wife who speak very highly of him? Sounds like you have personal biases and motives in play here.

A good man who the mom and other women called the cops on? That’s an obituary not a real bio. I seriously wonder if the mom has hired a pr firm to destroy her daughter for half these posts. Even if your daughter had made all this up wouldn’t you just cut her off after you fought for your innocence? Instead the mom goes to great efforts to sabotage her daughter’s new life. Seems like classic abuser/controller behavior. It comes down to who do you believe, the mom or the daughter. The mom’s behavior is like a psychopath. The daughter probably has issues too but doesn’t deserve a mom like that.

Agreed. It is passing strange that unattached strangers would be so emotionally invested in this story that they would go to such lengths to disparage the daughter on an anonymous message board, and profess to be so emotionally invested in the matter.

Hey, lady, I'm just a DCUM poster, and have been here on and off for 7 years. Ask Jeff, if you want to know. Do you need a link to Website Feedback?

But I was a truly, for-real poor kid who had to scramble to go to higher ed. This young woman's story stinks to high heaven. I don't mind saying so.

Do you have a Masters or PhD in psychology or social work? Expert in the range of psychological effects of trauma and parental abuse in children? Medical degree to explain the need for ICU hospitalization?

As I said, it is passing strange that you and others would be so emotionally invested in disparaging this young woman, particularly if you lack any relevant professional expertise, as I expect is the case.

Yes, actually.

Passing strange? I had it really hard. I slept in a car to make it through finals. All I had were loans, small scholarships, and several cobbled-together part-time jobs to get my degree.

It would be passing strange if I didn't cast the fisheye at this makeshift story. It's insulting to people who really were doing their best despite overwhelming circumstances, and -- most importantly -- did NOT lie or grift to get through.

Sure, sure. I have not seen any critique of her on this anonymous message board that addresses any aspect of this story from a professionally informed perspective. It's also telling that so many people who know her best stand by her. But you think we should listen to anonymous posters like you instead...

So you didn't read the 75 page former thread. Okay.

Also, since you claim to have relevant professional expertise, let me ask you something: in your experience, if a girl had suffered the trauma and abuse from her mother that this young woman claims, and if her mother is truly someone who "is just so amazing at getting people to think, feel, and do what she wants,” and "lies better than [McKenzie] can tell the truth" how would you expect that to have impacted the daughter from a developmental standpoint?

I wouldn't be surprised if she came out with a narrative that wasn't consistent with the facts of the matter, convinced herself of falsehoods, presented with pseudoseizures and psych issues that warranted a feeding tube, and doubled down when challenged.

I wouldn't be surprised if she lied about her medical history but was not directly challenged on those lies by her medical professionals. That's how HIPAA works -- she can say what she likes, and they can't contradict even bald-faced lies.

Sorry again. You asked.

Conclusory and non-responsive. I'll stick with the reported story and the professionals who support her. Based on the things that you have written, I do not believe that you have any relevant professional training or experience.

It seems you don't know what conclusory means.

And you asked me to speculate, which is what I did. Don't ask if you don't want to hear the answer.

No. I asked you, based on your claimed professional experience and expertise, how you would expect a history of trauma and abuse perpetrated by a lying and manipulative mother to impact the daughter from a developmental standpoint. You did not answer that question. And I assure you that I know what conclusory means. I look forward to seeing whether you are able to provide the bases for any of your assertions.

No, you do not, or you are just lying.

Conclusory by definition indicates reaching a conclusion or making an assertion of fact. "I would not be surprised" isn't a conclusion; it's speculation. If you are this rigorous about the meaning of words, I can see why you got sucked into defending this drama.

Words mean things. Use them appropriately.

Sorry to disappoint you, but conclusory means stating a conclusion or assertion without providing any supporting basis. Stating "I would not be surprised" as the preface of an assertion or conclusion does not magically mean that it can't be characterized as a conclusory one--for which you provided no bases that are informed by your supposed professional expertise.

I'm also waiting for your response to my hypothetical question, as informed by your claimed professional expertise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You aren't allowed to criticize Mackenzie Fierceton's story.

If you do, then one or more of the following applies:
1. You don't know what you are talking about, but if you do, then why do you care so much?
2. You have an axe to grind, but if you don't, then why do you care so much?
3. You can't point to anything she did wrong, but if you can, then why do you care so much?

It's a perfectly closed circle. There is no way to criticize this rank netting of a narrative correctly, according to those defending her here. That's interesting, in and of itself.

Oh please. As someone who had never heard of the story before this week and didn’t participate in prior threads I have to say that the people who seem completely closed off and intent on shutting down conversation are the ones saying she is a con artist.

+1 (and also just came to this story for the first time today).

I can understand the allegations that she exaggerated her situation in order to gain admission and get aid. I don't get the argument that her entire story is made up. It is corroborated by friends, friends families, teachers at her high school, the police who investigated the abuse allegations, the staff at the hospital where she was treated. I don't understand how you can read this story and conclude she concocted the entire thing and that her mom is an innocent victim and that Penn itself is in no way complicit.

There is no disputing that she wound up in the hospital with a head injury, that she had a history of bruises and injuries consistent with child abuse, that she wound up in the foster care system, and that by the time she arrived at Penn, she was independent and estranged from her mom. I'll also note her mom doesn't dispute that the boyfriend climbed into bed with Mackenzie and groped her, but laughed it off as the boyfriend mistaking her (the mom) for her 15 year old daughter. That's sexual assault on a minor. It's serious. Even if it was truly a case of mistaken identity, that's a huge failure as a parent not to address it immediately. To dismiss it as Mackenzie being dramatic and to assume good intentions by the boyfriend? That's so, so questionable. Especially combined with Mackenzie's medical history. It just seems obvious this person was abused. There is not innocent, "good parent" justification for any of this.

It seems like the most likely explanation is that she is an abuse survivor who either purposefully manipulated things like the definition of "first generation" in order to gain access to an education she could not otherwise afford, or she honestly didn't know. Either way, she's not a "master manipulator" and she didn't take advantage of anyone. She survived abuse and parental neglect and used tools at her disposal to try and rebuild her life. Her villainization in the press is alarming. Even if you think what she did was wrong, it's not MORE wrong than what was done to her as a child.

Perspective, people.

[Anonymous]

From the 130 page complaint:

29 “Additionally, I partially support my younger sister, who will be starting college soon. I will then have the additional strain of working to put her through school and ensure her basic living expenses are met. Because she also has special needs, additional resources such as medication, testing, learning aids, and more create further expenses throughout this process.” She wrote the same in her 2018-2019 PFAS form. Ms. Shaw told OSC that Mackenzie has not provided, and that there was no reason to believe it would become necessary to provide, “basic living expenses” or medical costs for Cat (who does have learning challenges). Asked about this, Mackenzie told OSC (and it was separately confirmed) that Mackenzie set up a 529 account for her sister to use towards higher education. OSC understands that the account has approximately $6,000 in it at this point. According to Mackenzie, the seed money for this account may have come from her biological father, although she does not quite remember."

So she is an unemployed "first-generation, low-income" ("FGLI") and does not “quite remember” if she donated $6,000.00 to a half-sister? Did this half-sister she was taking care of move in with the professor too? So many unanswered questions!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the 130 page complaint:

29 “Additionally, I partially support my younger sister, who will be starting college soon. I will then have the additional strain of working to put her through school and ensure her basic living expenses are met. Because she also has special needs, additional resources such as medication, testing, learning aids, and more create further expenses throughout this process.” She wrote the same in her 2018-2019 PFAS form. Ms. Shaw told OSC that Mackenzie has not provided, and that there was no reason to believe it would become necessary to provide, “basic living expenses” or medical costs for Cat (who does have learning challenges). Asked about this, Mackenzie told OSC (and it was separately confirmed) that Mackenzie set up a 529 account for her sister to use towards higher education. OSC understands that the account has approximately $6,000 in it at this point. According to Mackenzie, the seed money for this account may have come from her biological father, although she does not quite remember."

Which begs the question, did the New Yorker writer Rachel Aviv bother reading the 130 page complaint or did she purposely conceal mentioning this to craft a premeditated narrative?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I trust the New Yorker’s reporting over the self interested, bullying, PR techniques used by the university of Pennsylvania

I’m not a schemer... some nonprofit hack at Questbridge says so. I’m not lying... some hack at New Yorker whipped up a narrative for me. I’m a good person... look at the couple of suckers I orbited at Penn who say so. Or... we can all look at the hard facts and evidence and a documented pattern of conniving mooch behavior over the last decade.

— I think we found the disgruntled father whose kid didn’t get into Penn

I’m a mother and none of my kids applied to Penn. I just feel sorry for the actual poor kids who had aid and opportunities reserved for them intercepted by a rich white gal pretending to be disadvantaged, poor and first gen. How many actual poor kids and non-white kids are these rich professors inviting to live in their home for free and pay for their grad school? The answer is zero, of course.

Yeah so advantaged with abuse and no family supporting her financially otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the 130 page complaint:

29 “Additionally, I partially support my younger sister, who will be starting college soon. I will then have the additional strain of working to put her through school and ensure her basic living expenses are met. Because she also has special needs, additional resources such as medication, testing, learning aids, and more create further expenses throughout this process.” She wrote the same in her 2018-2019 PFAS form. Ms. Shaw told OSC that Mackenzie has not provided, and that there was no reason to believe it would become necessary to provide, “basic living expenses” or medical costs for Cat (who does have learning challenges). Asked about this, Mackenzie told OSC (and it was separately confirmed) that Mackenzie set up a 529 account for her sister to use towards higher education. OSC understands that the account has approximately $6,000 in it at this point. According to Mackenzie, the seed money for this account may have come from her biological father, although she does not quite remember."

Which begs the question, did the New Yorker writer Rachel Aviv bother reading the 130 page complaint or did she purposely conceal mentioning this to craft a premeditated narrative?

You are either deranged or arose fully grown with no knowledge of us media. The New Yorker is not some unreliable tabloid and there is literally no publication more esteemed for their fact checking dept.

[Anonymous]

It's my mom's fault. It's my mom's boyfriend's fault. It's the St Louis judicial systems' fault. It's Penn's fault for exaggerating my bio. It's reporters' fault for exaggerating my bio (which I eagerly retweeted). Wow, just wow, it seems like the whole world is conspiring against a 25-year-old mooch who's never worked a day in her life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I trust the New Yorker’s reporting over the self interested, bullying, PR techniques used by the university of Pennsylvania

FWIW Penn hasn't responded to the article so I don't know what you are talking about. And the fact that she agreed not to talk to other news sources until the New Yorker article was published tells me she sold the story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the 130 page complaint:

29 “Additionally, I partially support my younger sister, who will be starting college soon. I will then have the additional strain of working to put her through school and ensure her basic living expenses are met. Because she also has special needs, additional resources such as medication, testing, learning aids, and more create further expenses throughout this process.” She wrote the same in her 2018-2019 PFAS form. Ms. Shaw told OSC that Mackenzie has not provided, and that there was no reason to believe it would become necessary to provide, “basic living expenses” or medical costs for Cat (who does have learning challenges). Asked about this, Mackenzie told OSC (and it was separately confirmed) that Mackenzie set up a 529 account for her sister to use towards higher education. OSC understands that the account has approximately $6,000 in it at this point. According to Mackenzie, the seed money for this account may have come from her biological father, although she does not quite remember."

So she is an unemployed "first-generation, low-income" ("FGLI") and does not “quite remember” if she donated $6,000.00 to a half-sister? Did this half-sister she was taking care of move in with the professor too? So many unanswered questions!

Where does the father/sister say that Mackenzie doesn’t provide any financial support for the sister? I can’t find a statement from them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I trust the New Yorker’s reporting over the self interested, bullying, PR techniques used by the university of Pennsylvania

FWIW Penn hasn't responded to the article so I don't know what you are talking about. And the fact that she agreed not to talk to other news sources until the New Yorker article was published tells me she sold the story.

Seems like a good idea given their involvement in the original article from the Inquirer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the 130 page complaint:

29 “Additionally, I partially support my younger sister, who will be starting college soon. I will then have the additional strain of working to put her through school and ensure her basic living expenses are met. Because she also has special needs, additional resources such as medication, testing, learning aids, and more create further expenses throughout this process.” She wrote the same in her 2018-2019 PFAS form. Ms. Shaw told OSC that Mackenzie has not provided, and that there was no reason to believe it would become necessary to provide, “basic living expenses” or medical costs for Cat (who does have learning challenges). Asked about this, Mackenzie told OSC (and it was separately confirmed) that Mackenzie set up a 529 account for her sister to use towards higher education. OSC understands that the account has approximately $6,000 in it at this point. According to Mackenzie, the seed money for this account may have come from her biological father, although she does not quite remember."

Which begs the question, did the New Yorker writer Rachel Aviv bother reading the 130 page complaint or did she purposely conceal mentioning this to craft a premeditated narrative?

You are either deranged or arose fully grown with no knowledge of us media. The New Yorker is not some unreliable tabloid and there is literally no publication more esteemed for their fact checking dept.

This very tactic was peppered through all of the former threads. Spring-boarding off the credibility of someone you hustled to hustle your next mark. It's the modus operandi of most scam artists from Bernie Madoff to Elizabeth Holmes to Anna Delvey and Anne Hathaway's con artist ex.

https://www.thecut.com/article/how-anna-delvey-tricked-new-york.html

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2018/01/anne-hathaway-con-artist-ex-raffaello-follieri-says-he-is-investing-again

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the 130 page complaint:

29 “Additionally, I partially support my younger sister, who will be starting college soon. I will then have the additional strain of working to put her through school and ensure her basic living expenses are met. Because she also has special needs, additional resources such as medication, testing, learning aids, and more create further expenses throughout this process.” She wrote the same in her 2018-2019 PFAS form. Ms. Shaw told OSC that Mackenzie has not provided, and that there was no reason to believe it would become necessary to provide, “basic living expenses” or medical costs for Cat (who does have learning challenges). Asked about this, Mackenzie told OSC (and it was separately confirmed) that Mackenzie set up a 529 account for her sister to use towards higher education. OSC understands that the account has approximately $6,000 in it at this point. According to Mackenzie, the seed money for this account may have come from her biological father, although she does not quite remember."

Which begs the question, did the New Yorker writer Rachel Aviv bother reading the 130 page complaint or did she purposely conceal mentioning this to craft a premeditated narrative?

You are either deranged or arose fully grown with no knowledge of us media. The New Yorker is not some unreliable tabloid and there is literally no publication more esteemed for their fact checking dept.

This very tactic was peppered through all of the former threads. Spring-boarding off the credibility of someone you hustled to hustle your next mark. It's the modus operandi of most scam artists from Bernie Madoff to Elizabeth Holmes to Anna Delvey and Anne Hathaway's con artist ex.

https://www.thecut.com/article/how-anna-delvey-tricked-new-york.html

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2018/01/anne-hathaway-con-artist-ex-raffaello-follieri-says-he-is-investing-again

Easy marks --> progressively bigger marks
A few leaders in high school --> QuestBridge --> Penn admissions --> FGLI club --> a few Penn professors --> [NAME CHANGE] --> Rhodes --> New Yorker

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mother definitely found this site.

Actually I think MF found the site. She is certainly all over twitter posting comments and responses to the NYer story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mother definitely found this site.

Actually I think MF found the site. She is certainly all over twitter posting comments and responses to the NYer story.

Oh she didn’t deactivate her Twitter?

[Anonymous]

Perhaps she can pivot like Frank Abagnale and help QuestBridge, Ivy League colleges, and the Rhodes committee catch future schemers? "Abagnale became an FBI consultant and lecturer and opened his own private financial fraud consultancy company named Abagnale & Associates."