Blake Lively- Jason Baldoni and NYT - False Light claims

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

Again, according to Baldoni's own timeline, Jamey Heath showed Lively the video of his wife's nude childbirth the day AFTER they shot the birth scene.

He was not showing to to her in order to demonstrate, as a producer, how they wanted Lively to act or appear in the birth scene, because it had already been shot.

ok? So they were still talking about the scene they just filmed? It takes a massive filtering of the facts via a framework intent on interpreting everything as an insult to reach the conclusion that discussing the scene was sexual harassment.

What professional reason did Heath have for trying to show the video to Lively if she'd already shot the birth scene?

What other appropriate reason would someone have for showing a video in which they and their wife appear nude? I've been working for 30+ years including in creative, nontraditional workplaces, and I've never shown anyway photos or video of myself or my spouse nude. It has simply never come up and I would assume doing so would not be appropriate in a work context.

Were you in a creative field SPECIFICALLY DEPICTING CHILDBIRTH??

the Lively allegations surrounding the birth scene were some of the dumbest ones.

Again: the childbirth scene had already been shot. So why was he showing this video to Lively?

well Lively’s interpretations are clearly distorted so it’s hard to say what exactly happened. My guess would be they were discussing the scene they just shot, and the subject was still a topic of discussion and analysis. It seems totally normal to me. what seems abnormal is the accusation that he was somehow intentionally abusing Lively by showing her “porn” in the form of his child’s birth video.

But they had not "just shot" it.

May 22nd: Birth scene filmed
May 23rd morning: Multiple scenes involving the actors wearing "onesies" filmed
May 23rd lunch break: Heath shows Lively the video of his wife giving birth nude
May 23rd evening: Dancing scene for montage filmed

Why would he be discussing the birth scene at that point? There is nothing they could do to change it, and they'd already moved on to other scenes. Was he trying to convince Lively to reshoot the birth scene with less clothes? Why wasn't he focused on the scenes from that morning or the upcoming montage scenes? Would Lively be focused on those scenes, as an actress looking to be in character? It actually seems very unprofessional to be revisiting an argument from the day before in the middle of a day in which Lively is shooting multiple scenes from various parts of the movie.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

I totally agree with you. This was a major part of the movie.

A major part of the movie that had already been shot. Why were they still talking about it? Did they want to go back and shoot it again, this time with her nude?

I mean, BL was well aware of what giving birth looks like as she has 4 kids. This does seem quite perverted and totally unnecessary to show your own wife giving birth nude. BL did not need to see this, no one should be viewing this. It’s gross, unprofessional and bizarre. JB’s wife should be livid. What weirdos. Does this point to SH? Not sure…I am also wondering now, did JB’s wife consent to this personal birth video being shown off as a gold standard of birthing?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

If she signed on to the movie expecting and agreeing to X amount of nudity and sex scenes and the director was now requiring X + Y amount of nudity and sex scenes, including giving birth wet and fully naked in a tub and simulating climax on screen, then yes, this is something actors and actresses dispute and negotiate about all the time. Not sure why you’re confused about this. Above, I watched the birth scene on YouTube and I would not describe her as “fully clothed” in it, even if Baldini didn’t get his way with the fully naked birth in a tub. So to me it seems like they wound up with a reasonable birth scene with necessary nudity but not unnecessary nudity, if that makes sense.

Agree that it appears they (JB and Heath) were trying to persuade her how doing the birthing scene in a specific way would have made the film “better”—but her reaction could have simply been “nah—I’m not doing that”
And she does appear to have successfully declined Heaths artery to show her “hey here’s my wife’s birth video and it’s totally tasteful…so it could like something like this… (She shut him down before she saw any of it—and that’s all fine. But I’d hardly call that harassment in any way.)

The important contextual piece some are missing here is that BL started out very early on with offering up her own thoughts to JB on how they can rewrite or re-work dialogue or telling/directing JB how toshe wanted him to physical grab/hold her in order to make a scene “yummy” and “playfully bold” and “sexy” etc.
So she essentially set the tone with her own choices in questionably inappropriate persuasive language… and then BL balked when they followed her lead. Very confusing.

She didn’t seem to have any qualms with blurring appropriateness even off set (as evidenced by her text to JB that she was in her trailer pumping but he could come and run lines with her) Why would she invite him on to run lines while she’s pumping if she were already concerned with SH in the slow dance scene that they had already filmed?
She also declined to speak directly with intimacy coordinator (which she later put in a demand for in the return-to-work conditions). So many of those conditions were things that were already being done or that had been offered—but including them made them appear as though these were not already present.

I think JB and Heath were super naive to assume a collegiality and openness from HER communication style meant that she would be open to them matching that same style in communication to her.

Again, for the 12th time: Heath showed Lively the video AFTER she'd already shot the birth scene. So he was not showing to there in order to provide instruction or background on what they were going for in the scene, which they'd already shot.

Also, presumably Lively invited Baldoni to her trailer while she was pumping on that occasion because she was comfortable with him *on that occasion.* Perhaps she was pumping in an outfit that fully covered her so she felt it was fine on that occasion. On other occasions when people came into her trailer without an invitation, she may have been in clothing that didn't accommodate covering up while pumping, or might have been nursing her baby directly which can make covering up difficult because babies don't really like having their faces covered while they are nursing.

Telling a person one time that they can come to your trailer while you are pumping does not mean you are comfortable having any and anyone coming into your trailer while you are in various stages of undress at their choice. Do you really not get this?

[Anonymous]

At least JB could have done a little research regarding various ways women can give birth. He seems so perverted and weird for showing a nude video of his wife to anyone. Like, we know Justin, we are well aware, of what giving birth looks like. And his wife? His wife was like sure! Yes! show them how it’s done Sweetie! So odd.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

Again, according to Baldoni's own timeline, Jamey Heath showed Lively the video of his wife's nude childbirth the day AFTER they shot the birth scene.

He was not showing to to her in order to demonstrate, as a producer, how they wanted Lively to act or appear in the birth scene, because it had already been shot.

ok? So they were still talking about the scene they just filmed? It takes a massive filtering of the facts via a framework intent on interpreting everything as an insult to reach the conclusion that discussing the scene was sexual harassment.

What professional reason did Heath have for trying to show the video to Lively if she'd already shot the birth scene?

What other appropriate reason would someone have for showing a video in which they and their wife appear nude? I've been working for 30+ years including in creative, nontraditional workplaces, and I've never shown anyway photos or video of myself or my spouse nude. It has simply never come up and I would assume doing so would not be appropriate in a work context.

Were you in a creative field SPECIFICALLY DEPICTING CHILDBIRTH??

the Lively allegations surrounding the birth scene were some of the dumbest ones.

Again: the childbirth scene had already been shot. So why was he showing this video to Lively?

well Lively’s interpretations are clearly distorted so it’s hard to say what exactly happened. My guess would be they were discussing the scene they just shot, and the subject was still a topic of discussion and analysis. It seems totally normal to me. what seems abnormal is the accusation that he was somehow intentionally abusing Lively by showing her “porn” in the form of his child’s birth video.

The fact that someone would suggest a birthing video is porn is really a reach.

If I have to work with you, I don’t want you to show me videos of your naked wife doing anything, even if there’s some connection somehow to the subject matter we are working on. I’m not sure it’s porn but that’s a hard no. Wtf?

And furthermore I would bet that every person in this thread has people they work with from whom such videos also would be unwelcome. Naked videos of the spouse are not some thing that have become normalized for workers to exchange these days afaik. And if my bosses were already trying to force more nudity and sexualized content out of me than I was comfortable with, a naked video of your spouse would be even more unwelcome. It would not just be unwelcome nudity of a coworkers spouse, it would be more pressure from you saying “do this extra nudity look how normal it is.” And as PP says, the scene was already filmed at this point, so if Heath knew I wasn’t comfortable with lots of nudity, what even was he trying to accomplish?

Maybe it was harassment, maybe not. But there is a tone deaf male insistence here on what’s normal for the female experience that is aggravating. Insisting it is “not normal” to wear a hospital gown in childbirth is not normal.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

I totally agree with you. This was a major part of the movie.

A major part of the movie that had already been shot. Why were they still talking about it? Did they want to go back and shoot it again, this time with her nude?

I mean, BL was well aware of what giving birth looks like as she has 4 kids. This does seem quite perverted and totally unnecessary to show your own wife giving birth nude. BL did not need to see this, no one should be viewing this. It’s gross, unprofessional and bizarre. JB’s wife should be livid. What weirdos. Does this point to SH? Not sure…I am also wondering now, did JB’s wife consent to this personal birth video being shown off as a gold standard of birthing?

This was Heath who showed the video, not JB.

And actually Lively specifically asked him if his wife had given him consent to share the video, noting that she would not be comfortable with a video of herself being shared in that way by a spouse.

Lively showed more care for Heath's wife, a total stranger to her, in that interaction than Heath or Baldoni showed for Lively while working directly with her.

[Anonymous]

I still don’t believe this qualifies as SH/A although JB invaded definite boundaries. He is clearly an ignorant pervert. There was absolutely no reason to show his pregnant wife giving birth nude, no reason.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

I totally agree with you. This was a major part of the movie.

A major part of the movie that had already been shot. Why were they still talking about it? Did they want to go back and shoot it again, this time with her nude?

I mean, BL was well aware of what giving birth looks like as she has 4 kids. This does seem quite perverted and totally unnecessary to show your own wife giving birth nude. BL did not need to see this, no one should be viewing this. It’s gross, unprofessional and bizarre. JB’s wife should be livid. What weirdos. Does this point to SH? Not sure…I am also wondering now, did JB’s wife consent to this personal birth video being shown off as a gold standard of birthing?

This was Heath who showed the video, not JB.

And actually Lively specifically asked him if his wife had given him consent to share the video, noting that she would not be comfortable with a video of herself being shared in that way by a spouse.

Lively showed more care for Heath's wife, a total stranger to her, in that interaction than Heath or Baldoni showed for Lively while working directly with her.

The major difference here though is that BL wasn’t actually pregnant here. This wasn’t a real birth. That is a huge thing. BL was not a naive young pregnant woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At least JB could have done a little research regarding various ways women can give birth. He seems so perverted and weird for showing a nude video of his wife to anyone. Like, we know Justin, we are well aware, of what giving birth looks like. And his wife? His wife was like sure! Yes! show them how it’s done Sweetie! So odd.

Justin didn’t show a video. You could do a little research into who had that video. It was Jamey Heath.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

Again, according to Baldoni's own timeline, Jamey Heath showed Lively the video of his wife's nude childbirth the day AFTER they shot the birth scene.

He was not showing to to her in order to demonstrate, as a producer, how they wanted Lively to act or appear in the birth scene, because it had already been shot.

ok? So they were still talking about the scene they just filmed? It takes a massive filtering of the facts via a framework intent on interpreting everything as an insult to reach the conclusion that discussing the scene was sexual harassment.

Further, if you read Baldoni‘s suit, he clearly stated that they were having a casual conversation, Blake actually responded she’d love to see the video later. It was very friendly and cordial. It was only later when Blake was using this as leverage that she tried to call it p—n and act like it was being forced on her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At least JB could have done a little research regarding various ways women can give birth. He seems so perverted and weird for showing a nude video of his wife to anyone. Like, we know Justin, we are well aware, of what giving birth looks like. And his wife? His wife was like sure! Yes! show them how it’s done Sweetie! So odd.

+1

It's especially weird that they personalize the birth scene in this particular movie in this way, expecting it to look just like their own wive's birth experiences.

The movie is about a woman who is abused by her husband and, when she gives birth to a daughter, realizes she cannot subject her own daughter to domestic violence so decides to end her relationship with her abusive husband. That is where the title "it ends with us" comes from.

So the birth scene is pivotal because it is linked to the character's realization that she cannot allow her own choices to perpetuate a cycle of violence that will then impact her daughter. The movie also has flashbacks to the character's childhood and realizing how her parents' relationship impacted her and her expectations.

It is very, very weird to me that Baldoni or Heath would, in the context of THIS movie, be hung up on whether or not Lively's character's childbirth experience looked like their own wives' childbirth experiences. Presumably (hopefully!) their wives had very different, and better, experiences because presumably (and hopefully) they were not coming to terms with the abusive nature of their marriages while giving birth to their kids.

I just... I cannot with this crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t believe this qualifies as SH/A although JB invaded definite boundaries. He is clearly an ignorant pervert. There was absolutely no reason to show his pregnant wife giving birth nude, no reason.

He didn’t.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

Again, according to Baldoni's own timeline, Jamey Heath showed Lively the video of his wife's nude childbirth the day AFTER they shot the birth scene.

He was not showing to to her in order to demonstrate, as a producer, how they wanted Lively to act or appear in the birth scene, because it had already been shot.

ok? So they were still talking about the scene they just filmed? It takes a massive filtering of the facts via a framework intent on interpreting everything as an insult to reach the conclusion that discussing the scene was sexual harassment.

Further, if you read Baldoni‘s suit, he clearly stated that they were having a casual conversation, Blake actually responded she’d love to see the video later. It was very friendly and cordial. It was only later when Blake was using this as leverage that she tried to call it p—n and act like it was being forced on her.

Bingo!!!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Actually, you can have it both ways because you’re the director and producer of the movies. No one saying he isn’t fake and isn’t doing fake feminism, but he has a right to lay out the scene that he wants to lay out and Blake needs to do it cause that’s what she’s getting paid a lot of money for. Ridiculous to call it anything else.

I don’t think that’s how it works when you have signed up for the movie without signing up to do a lot of nudity, and then the director suddenly wants a bunch of additional nudity that you didn’t agree to. I’d expect that would need to be negotiated, and not just accomplished by fiat from the director or by saying “but that’s how my wife did it.”

That is a different argument. If they didn’t agree to nudity and they were arguing about that that is a separate issue.

It was the mansplaining that was bothering me. Nobody was telling her how childbirth works. They were trying to communicate how they wanted to do the scene. And just like with every scene in this movie, she didn’t want to do it, presumably just because she wants to have full power, and wasn’t going to agree to any ideas that they had. Which is funny given that it has been made clear she has never has even read the book. But either way they weren’t explaining childbirth to her. They were telling her how they wanted to do the scene.

It’s fine if she didn’t agree, but you don’t get to call it mansplaining.

+100
This exactly.
Heath was attempting to show the video of his wife giving birth in what he obviously felt was a good example of a beautiful and tasteful experience THaT THEY WANTED TO DO FOR THAT SCENE!

No one is disputing that BL knows how the whole birthing process works….for HER!
But in a movie where she is supposed to be portraying a fictional character, the director should get to have a say in how the character portrays that scene. If he just relies on BL to simulate her own experience, she could be screaming profanities and throwing things—for all we know!—and by showing her an actual example of what he wanted the scene to look like.
No mansplaining.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

Again, according to Baldoni's own timeline, Jamey Heath showed Lively the video of his wife's nude childbirth the day AFTER they shot the birth scene.

He was not showing to to her in order to demonstrate, as a producer, how they wanted Lively to act or appear in the birth scene, because it had already been shot.

ok? So they were still talking about the scene they just filmed? It takes a massive filtering of the facts via a framework intent on interpreting everything as an insult to reach the conclusion that discussing the scene was sexual harassment.

What professional reason did Heath have for trying to show the video to Lively if she'd already shot the birth scene?

What other appropriate reason would someone have for showing a video in which they and their wife appear nude? I've been working for 30+ years including in creative, nontraditional workplaces, and I've never shown anyway photos or video of myself or my spouse nude. It has simply never come up and I would assume doing so would not be appropriate in a work context.

But Blake twisted everything as we now know. They were casually talking about the scene as I just mentioned in a previous post and it was cordial and Blake actually showed interest in seeing the video. Leader she completely mis characterizes this.

She has a pattern of doing this. In her initial complaint, it was as if they were constantly asking her to do nude scenes that were out of the script with no intimacy coordinator, only to find out later this absolutely was not true, and she was the one that blew off meetings with the intimacy coordinator. Justin tried to share notes from the meeting with the intimacy coordinator. She completely mischaracterizes this as inappropriate conversations when we now know it was not - he was doing his job.

She continually does this. People bursting into her trailers at all hours while she was naked, only to find out she had invited the head producer into her trailer with three other female employees of hers were there while she was breast-feeding and all of a sudden it’s every man on this set, constantly and uncontrollably trying to get glimpses of a nude Blake lively.