Blake Lively- Jason Baldoni and NYT - False Light claims

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Actually, you can have it both ways because you’re the director and producer of the movies. No one saying he isn’t fake and isn’t doing fake feminism, but he has a right to lay out the scene that he wants to lay out and Blake needs to do it cause that’s what she’s getting paid a lot of money for. Ridiculous to call it anything else.

I don’t think that’s how it works when you have signed up for the movie without signing up to do a lot of nudity, and then the director suddenly wants a bunch of additional nudity that you didn’t agree to. I’d expect that would need to be negotiated, and not just accomplished by fiat from the director or by saying “but that’s how my wife did it.”

That is a different argument. If they didn’t agree to nudity and they were arguing about that that is a separate issue.

It was the mansplaining that was bothering me. Nobody was telling her how childbirth works. They were trying to communicate how they wanted to do the scene. And just like with every scene in this movie, she didn’t want to do it, presumably just because she wants to have full power, and wasn’t going to agree to any ideas that they had. Which is funny given that it has been made clear she has never has even read the book. But either way they weren’t explaining childbirth to her. They were telling her how they wanted to do the scene.

It’s fine if she didn’t agree, but you don’t get to call it mansplaining.

Her complaint says he called it “not normal” to be wearing a hospital gown during birth. Which he hasn’t contradicted. That’s textbook mansplaining.

Or just an ignorant perverted fool.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think Baldoni is kind of socially stupid.

Imagine watching your own wife give birth twice and thinking that you know everything one could possibly know about giving birth. It's actually fascinating to me that these men were filming a birth scene and decided their own limited experience was enough and apparently made no effort to do any research or find out what would be accurate or appropriate in the scene, or what would best convey this story about this character. They just thought "well OUR wives gave birth nude so obviously all women give birth nude including this fictional woman." It's so simple-minded and lazy.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

Again, according to Baldoni's own timeline, Jamey Heath showed Lively the video of his wife's nude childbirth the day AFTER they shot the birth scene.

He was not showing to to her in order to demonstrate, as a producer, how they wanted Lively to act or appear in the birth scene, because it had already been shot.

ok? So they were still talking about the scene they just filmed? It takes a massive filtering of the facts via a framework intent on interpreting everything as an insult to reach the conclusion that discussing the scene was sexual harassment.

What professional reason did Heath have for trying to show the video to Lively if she'd already shot the birth scene?

What other appropriate reason would someone have for showing a video in which they and their wife appear nude? I've been working for 30+ years including in creative, nontraditional workplaces, and I've never shown anyway photos or video of myself or my spouse nude. It has simply never come up and I would assume doing so would not be appropriate in a work context.

Were you in a creative field SPECIFICALLY DEPICTING CHILDBIRTH??

the Lively allegations surrounding the birth scene were some of the dumbest ones.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

I totally agree with you. This was a major part of the movie.

A major part of the movie that had already been shot. Why were they still talking about it? Did they want to go back and shoot it again, this time with her nude?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

Again, according to Baldoni's own timeline, Jamey Heath showed Lively the video of his wife's nude childbirth the day AFTER they shot the birth scene.

He was not showing to to her in order to demonstrate, as a producer, how they wanted Lively to act or appear in the birth scene, because it had already been shot.

ok? So they were still talking about the scene they just filmed? It takes a massive filtering of the facts via a framework intent on interpreting everything as an insult to reach the conclusion that discussing the scene was sexual harassment.

What professional reason did Heath have for trying to show the video to Lively if she'd already shot the birth scene?

What other appropriate reason would someone have for showing a video in which they and their wife appear nude? I've been working for 30+ years including in creative, nontraditional workplaces, and I've never shown anyway photos or video of myself or my spouse nude. It has simply never come up and I would assume doing so would not be appropriate in a work context.

Were you in a creative field SPECIFICALLY DEPICTING CHILDBIRTH??

the Lively allegations surrounding the birth scene were some of the dumbest ones.

Again: the childbirth scene had already been shot. So why was he showing this video to Lively?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

Again, according to Baldoni's own timeline, Jamey Heath showed Lively the video of his wife's nude childbirth the day AFTER they shot the birth scene.

He was not showing to to her in order to demonstrate, as a producer, how they wanted Lively to act or appear in the birth scene, because it had already been shot.

ok? So they were still talking about the scene they just filmed? It takes a massive filtering of the facts via a framework intent on interpreting everything as an insult to reach the conclusion that discussing the scene was sexual harassment.

What professional reason did Heath have for trying to show the video to Lively if she'd already shot the birth scene?

What other appropriate reason would someone have for showing a video in which they and their wife appear nude? I've been working for 30+ years including in creative, nontraditional workplaces, and I've never shown anyway photos or video of myself or my spouse nude. It has simply never come up and I would assume doing so would not be appropriate in a work context.

Were you in a creative field SPECIFICALLY DEPICTING CHILDBIRTH??

the Lively allegations surrounding the birth scene were some of the dumbest ones.

Again: the childbirth scene had already been shot. So why was he showing this video to Lively?

Why are you posting post after post after trying to ruin this successful black man’s reputation?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

Again, according to Baldoni's own timeline, Jamey Heath showed Lively the video of his wife's nude childbirth the day AFTER they shot the birth scene.

He was not showing to to her in order to demonstrate, as a producer, how they wanted Lively to act or appear in the birth scene, because it had already been shot.

ok? So they were still talking about the scene they just filmed? It takes a massive filtering of the facts via a framework intent on interpreting everything as an insult to reach the conclusion that discussing the scene was sexual harassment.

What professional reason did Heath have for trying to show the video to Lively if she'd already shot the birth scene?

What other appropriate reason would someone have for showing a video in which they and their wife appear nude? I've been working for 30+ years including in creative, nontraditional workplaces, and I've never shown anyway photos or video of myself or my spouse nude. It has simply never come up and I would assume doing so would not be appropriate in a work context.

Were you in a creative field SPECIFICALLY DEPICTING CHILDBIRTH??

the Lively allegations surrounding the birth scene were some of the dumbest ones.

Again: the childbirth scene had already been shot. So why was he showing this video to Lively?

well Lively’s interpretations are clearly distorted so it’s hard to say what exactly happened. My guess would be they were discussing the scene they just shot, and the subject was still a topic of discussion and analysis. It seems totally normal to me. what seems abnormal is the accusation that he was somehow intentionally abusing Lively by showing her “porn” in the form of his child’s birth video.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

Again, according to Baldoni's own timeline, Jamey Heath showed Lively the video of his wife's nude childbirth the day AFTER they shot the birth scene.

He was not showing to to her in order to demonstrate, as a producer, how they wanted Lively to act or appear in the birth scene, because it had already been shot.

ok? So they were still talking about the scene they just filmed? It takes a massive filtering of the facts via a framework intent on interpreting everything as an insult to reach the conclusion that discussing the scene was sexual harassment.

What professional reason did Heath have for trying to show the video to Lively if she'd already shot the birth scene?

What other appropriate reason would someone have for showing a video in which they and their wife appear nude? I've been working for 30+ years including in creative, nontraditional workplaces, and I've never shown anyway photos or video of myself or my spouse nude. It has simply never come up and I would assume doing so would not be appropriate in a work context.

Were you in a creative field SPECIFICALLY DEPICTING CHILDBIRTH??

the Lively allegations surrounding the birth scene were some of the dumbest ones.

No she was not. She is just obsessed with taking down Jamey Heath and accusing him of being a sexual predator.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

Again, according to Baldoni's own timeline, Jamey Heath showed Lively the video of his wife's nude childbirth the day AFTER they shot the birth scene.

He was not showing to to her in order to demonstrate, as a producer, how they wanted Lively to act or appear in the birth scene, because it had already been shot.

ok? So they were still talking about the scene they just filmed? It takes a massive filtering of the facts via a framework intent on interpreting everything as an insult to reach the conclusion that discussing the scene was sexual harassment.

I totally agree with this too. This person has to be exhausted by the number of posts and twisting/eliminating facts she does.

You are responding to more than one poster.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

Again, according to Baldoni's own timeline, Jamey Heath showed Lively the video of his wife's nude childbirth the day AFTER they shot the birth scene.

He was not showing to to her in order to demonstrate, as a producer, how they wanted Lively to act or appear in the birth scene, because it had already been shot.

ok? So they were still talking about the scene they just filmed? It takes a massive filtering of the facts via a framework intent on interpreting everything as an insult to reach the conclusion that discussing the scene was sexual harassment.

What professional reason did Heath have for trying to show the video to Lively if she'd already shot the birth scene?

What other appropriate reason would someone have for showing a video in which they and their wife appear nude? I've been working for 30+ years including in creative, nontraditional workplaces, and I've never shown anyway photos or video of myself or my spouse nude. It has simply never come up and I would assume doing so would not be appropriate in a work context.

Were you in a creative field SPECIFICALLY DEPICTING CHILDBIRTH??

the Lively allegations surrounding the birth scene were some of the dumbest ones.

Again: the childbirth scene had already been shot. So why was he showing this video to Lively?

well Lively’s interpretations are clearly distorted so it’s hard to say what exactly happened. My guess would be they were discussing the scene they just shot, and the subject was still a topic of discussion and analysis. It seems totally normal to me. what seems abnormal is the accusation that he was somehow intentionally abusing Lively by showing her “porn” in the form of his child’s birth video.

The fact that someone would suggest a birthing video is porn is really a reach.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

Again, according to Baldoni's own timeline, Jamey Heath showed Lively the video of his wife's nude childbirth the day AFTER they shot the birth scene.

He was not showing to to her in order to demonstrate, as a producer, how they wanted Lively to act or appear in the birth scene, because it had already been shot.

ok? So they were still talking about the scene they just filmed? It takes a massive filtering of the facts via a framework intent on interpreting everything as an insult to reach the conclusion that discussing the scene was sexual harassment.

What professional reason did Heath have for trying to show the video to Lively if she'd already shot the birth scene?

What other appropriate reason would someone have for showing a video in which they and their wife appear nude? I've been working for 30+ years including in creative, nontraditional workplaces, and I've never shown anyway photos or video of myself or my spouse nude. It has simply never come up and I would assume doing so would not be appropriate in a work context.

Were you in a creative field SPECIFICALLY DEPICTING CHILDBIRTH??

the Lively allegations surrounding the birth scene were some of the dumbest ones.

Again: the childbirth scene had already been shot. So why was he showing this video to Lively?

well Lively’s interpretations are clearly distorted so it’s hard to say what exactly happened. My guess would be they were discussing the scene they just shot, and the subject was still a topic of discussion and analysis. It seems totally normal to me. what seems abnormal is the accusation that he was somehow intentionally abusing Lively by showing her “porn” in the form of his child’s birth video.

The fact that someone would suggest a birthing video is porn is really a reach.

100%. She needs to grow up if this is what she considers porn

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

Again, according to Baldoni's own timeline, Jamey Heath showed Lively the video of his wife's nude childbirth the day AFTER they shot the birth scene.

He was not showing to to her in order to demonstrate, as a producer, how they wanted Lively to act or appear in the birth scene, because it had already been shot.

ok? So they were still talking about the scene they just filmed? It takes a massive filtering of the facts via a framework intent on interpreting everything as an insult to reach the conclusion that discussing the scene was sexual harassment.

What professional reason did Heath have for trying to show the video to Lively if she'd already shot the birth scene?

What other appropriate reason would someone have for showing a video in which they and their wife appear nude? I've been working for 30+ years including in creative, nontraditional workplaces, and I've never shown anyway photos or video of myself or my spouse nude. It has simply never come up and I would assume doing so would not be appropriate in a work context.

Were you in a creative field SPECIFICALLY DEPICTING CHILDBIRTH??

the Lively allegations surrounding the birth scene were some of the dumbest ones.

Again: the childbirth scene had already been shot. So why was he showing this video to Lively?

well Lively’s interpretations are clearly distorted so it’s hard to say what exactly happened. My guess would be they were discussing the scene they just shot, and the subject was still a topic of discussion and analysis. It seems totally normal to me. what seems abnormal is the accusation that he was somehow intentionally abusing Lively by showing her “porn” in the form of his child’s birth video.

The fact that someone would suggest a birthing video is porn is really a reach.

100%. She needs to grow up if this is what she considers porn

Maybe Ryan gets turned on when she gives birth

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

Again, according to Baldoni's own timeline, Jamey Heath showed Lively the video of his wife's nude childbirth the day AFTER they shot the birth scene.

He was not showing to to her in order to demonstrate, as a producer, how they wanted Lively to act or appear in the birth scene, because it had already been shot.

ok? So they were still talking about the scene they just filmed? It takes a massive filtering of the facts via a framework intent on interpreting everything as an insult to reach the conclusion that discussing the scene was sexual harassment.

What professional reason did Heath have for trying to show the video to Lively if she'd already shot the birth scene?

What other appropriate reason would someone have for showing a video in which they and their wife appear nude? I've been working for 30+ years including in creative, nontraditional workplaces, and I've never shown anyway photos or video of myself or my spouse nude. It has simply never come up and I would assume doing so would not be appropriate in a work context.

Were you in a creative field SPECIFICALLY DEPICTING CHILDBIRTH??

the Lively allegations surrounding the birth scene were some of the dumbest ones.

Again: the childbirth scene had already been shot. So why was he showing this video to Lively?

well Lively’s interpretations are clearly distorted so it’s hard to say what exactly happened. My guess would be they were discussing the scene they just shot, and the subject was still a topic of discussion and analysis. It seems totally normal to me. what seems abnormal is the accusation that he was somehow intentionally abusing Lively by showing her “porn” in the form of his child’s birth video.

The fact that someone would suggest a birthing video is porn is really a reach.

If I have to work with you, I don’t want you to show me videos of your naked wife doing anything, even if there’s some connection somehow to the subject matter we are working on. I’m not sure it’s porn but that’s a hard no. Wtf?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

If she signed on to the movie expecting and agreeing to X amount of nudity and sex scenes and the director was now requiring X + Y amount of nudity and sex scenes, including giving birth wet and fully naked in a tub and simulating climax on screen, then yes, this is something actors and actresses dispute and negotiate about all the time. Not sure why you’re confused about this. Above, I watched the birth scene on YouTube and I would not describe her as “fully clothed” in it, even if Baldini didn’t get his way with the fully naked birth in a tub. So to me it seems like they wound up with a reasonable birth scene with necessary nudity but not unnecessary nudity, if that makes sense.

Agree that it appears they (JB and Heath) were trying to persuade her how doing the birthing scene in a specific way would have made the film “better”—but her reaction could have simply been “nah—I’m not doing that”
And she does appear to have successfully declined Heaths artery to show her “hey here’s my wife’s birth video and it’s totally tasteful…so it could like something like this… (She shut him down before she saw any of it—and that’s all fine. But I’d hardly call that harassment in any way.)

The important contextual piece some are missing here is that BL started out very early on with offering up her own thoughts to JB on how they can rewrite or re-work dialogue or telling/directing JB how toshe wanted him to physical grab/hold her in order to make a scene “yummy” and “playfully bold” and “sexy” etc.
So she essentially set the tone with her own choices in questionably inappropriate persuasive language… and then BL balked when they followed her lead. Very confusing.

She didn’t seem to have any qualms with blurring appropriateness even off set (as evidenced by her text to JB that she was in her trailer pumping but he could come and run lines with her) Why would she invite him on to run lines while she’s pumping if she were already concerned with SH in the slow dance scene that they had already filmed?
She also declined to speak directly with intimacy coordinator (which she later put in a demand for in the return-to-work conditions). So many of those conditions were things that were already being done or that had been offered—but including them made them appear as though these were not already present.

I think JB and Heath were super naive to assume a collegiality and openness from HER communication style meant that she would be open to them matching that same style in communication to her.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

+1. And a film in which the childbirth scene is the pivotal part of the entire movie. It wasn’t like it was a minor element! It’s the entire plot!

Doesn’t mean she has to do it naked in a tub. Sorry not sorry.

This is why you have no credibility. She didn’t film it naked in a tub.

But that’s how Baldoni wanted to do it (with a fake belly but exposed breasts) and that’s what she objected to. That by itself isn’t sexual harassment but you can also prove SH by a pattern of behavior, which is what Lively is alleging in her complaint — not just one single incident of assault which is what some people experience.

It’s not sexual harassment to discuss how to film a childbirth scene and for the director to have an opinion on it when it is a pivotal scene in the plot.

Again, according to Baldoni's own timeline, Jamey Heath showed Lively the video of his wife's nude childbirth the day AFTER they shot the birth scene.

He was not showing to to her in order to demonstrate, as a producer, how they wanted Lively to act or appear in the birth scene, because it had already been shot.

ok? So they were still talking about the scene they just filmed? It takes a massive filtering of the facts via a framework intent on interpreting everything as an insult to reach the conclusion that discussing the scene was sexual harassment.

What professional reason did Heath have for trying to show the video to Lively if she'd already shot the birth scene?

What other appropriate reason would someone have for showing a video in which they and their wife appear nude? I've been working for 30+ years including in creative, nontraditional workplaces, and I've never shown anyway photos or video of myself or my spouse nude. It has simply never come up and I would assume doing so would not be appropriate in a work context.

Were you in a creative field SPECIFICALLY DEPICTING CHILDBIRTH??

the Lively allegations surrounding the birth scene were some of the dumbest ones.

Again: the childbirth scene had already been shot. So why was he showing this video to Lively?

well Lively’s interpretations are clearly distorted so it’s hard to say what exactly happened. My guess would be they were discussing the scene they just shot, and the subject was still a topic of discussion and analysis. It seems totally normal to me. what seems abnormal is the accusation that he was somehow intentionally abusing Lively by showing her “porn” in the form of his child’s birth video.

The fact that someone would suggest a birthing video is porn is really a reach.

If I have to work with you, I don’t want you to show me videos of your naked wife doing anything, even if there’s some connection somehow to the subject matter we are working on. I’m not sure it’s porn but that’s a hard no. Wtf?

You are not a creative artist in the film industry so you’re probably safe.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?

If she signed on to the movie expecting and agreeing to X amount of nudity and sex scenes and the director was now requiring X + Y amount of nudity and sex scenes, including giving birth wet and fully naked in a tub and simulating climax on screen, then yes, this is something actors and actresses dispute and negotiate about all the time. Not sure why you’re confused about this. Above, I watched the birth scene on YouTube and I would not describe her as “fully clothed” in it, even if Baldini didn’t get his way with the fully naked birth in a tub. So to me it seems like they wound up with a reasonable birth scene with necessary nudity but not unnecessary nudity, if that makes sense.

Agree that it appears they (JB and Heath) were trying to persuade her how doing the birthing scene in a specific way would have made the film “better”—but her reaction could have simply been “nah—I’m not doing that”
And she does appear to have successfully declined Heaths artery to show her “hey here’s my wife’s birth video and it’s totally tasteful…so it could like something like this… (She shut him down before she saw any of it—and that’s all fine. But I’d hardly call that harassment in any way.)

The important contextual piece some are missing here is that BL started out very early on with offering up her own thoughts to JB on how they can rewrite or re-work dialogue or telling/directing JB how toshe wanted him to physical grab/hold her in order to make a scene “yummy” and “playfully bold” and “sexy” etc.
So she essentially set the tone with her own choices in questionably inappropriate persuasive language… and then BL balked when they followed her lead. Very confusing.

She didn’t seem to have any qualms with blurring appropriateness even off set (as evidenced by her text to JB that she was in her trailer pumping but he could come and run lines with her) Why would she invite him on to run lines while she’s pumping if she were already concerned with SH in the slow dance scene that they had already filmed?
She also declined to speak directly with intimacy coordinator (which she later put in a demand for in the return-to-work conditions). So many of those conditions were things that were already being done or that had been offered—but including them made them appear as though these were not already present.

I think JB and Heath were super naive to assume a collegiality and openness from HER communication style meant that she would be open to them matching that same style in communication to her.

Well said.