Compacted Math- FYI

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Or, look at it this way. Right now your child is on track to take AP Calculus in 11th grade and to need to take yet another math course to graduate. What actual harm is done if they take Calculus as a senior instead?

Since this question has come up repeatedly.

Some of us are thinking ahead. Admission to competitive STEM majors, in particular CS, is separate from admission to an undergrad institution as a whole. Unfortunately there just aren’t enough CS PhDs who are qualified and want to be academics. So the limited spots in, for example, the EECS major at Cal will go to kids who have already taken Linear algebra.

It’s not about beating another kid. It’s about not letting an Education admistrator decide which doors to close to a 9 year old that they’ve never met.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Or, look at it this way. Right now your child is on track to take AP Calculus in 11th grade and to need to take yet another math course to graduate. What actual harm is done if they take Calculus as a senior instead?

Since this question has come up repeatedly.

Some of us are thinking ahead. Admission to competitive STEM majors, in particular CS, is separate from admission to an undergrad institution as a whole. Unfortunately there just aren’t enough CS PhDs who are qualified and want to be academics. So the limited spots in, for example, the EECS major at Cal will go to kids who have already taken Linear algebra.

It’s not about beating another kid. It’s about not letting an Education admistrator decide which doors to close to a 9 year old that they’ve never met.

+1 And it´s not so easy to say ¨just double up in high school.¨ There are only so many slots for classes in high school, and there are other requirements. Right now, you can´t take phys ed over the summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People are way over thinking and fretting about this. I've had 3 kids (both in magnets and not) go through almost all the flavors of ES and MS offerings for math recently. They have all been terribly bored in math at some point. I attempted to resolve issues along the way - sometimes successfully and sometimes not. It's fine. They can spend their brainpower on other things. In the long run, lack of challenge and slow pace in ES and MS hasn't held back any of my kids from taking the most advanced math possible in HS.

The key to remember is that Algebra in 8th grade leads to 9th-Geometry, 10th-Algebra 2, 11th-Precalculus, 12th Calculus. Don't like that pathway? Double up with Geometry and Algebra 2 in 9th. Take AP Stat in 11th. Be proactive in high school to ensure your child is on the most appropriate pathway for them, and speed up or slow down then as needed.

I'm assuming your kids are older. A lot of kids now are taking Algebra in 7th, select few are taking it in 6th. You can also do summer school either through MCPS or privately to speed things up. There is not some huge reason to speed things up but it really has to do with the child's ability and interests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about 3rd grade kid who consistently scores 99th percentile in MAP but got a B at some point in the past few months? Kid understands the content and is bored. Not sure why the B. Well this preclude him from compacted next year?

Maybe kid'll be our next Einstein.

Did Einstein get precluded from 4/5 math?!!

Einstein did math problems at home. People should worry less about what your doing in school than what you’re doing out of school.

I’m curious whatever happened to lifelong learning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Or, look at it this way. Right now your child is on track to take AP Calculus in 11th grade and to need to take yet another math course to graduate. What actual harm is done if they take Calculus as a senior instead?

Since this question has come up repeatedly.

Some of us are thinking ahead. Admission to competitive STEM majors, in particular CS, is separate from admission to an undergrad institution as a whole. Unfortunately there just aren’t enough CS PhDs who are qualified and want to be academics. So the limited spots in, for example, the EECS major at Cal will go to kids who have already taken Linear algebra.

It’s not about beating another kid. It’s about not letting an Education admistrator decide which doors to close to a 9 year old that they’ve never met.

Great info about Cal. But at UC Berkeley, one can skip 1st year Math (not 1 semester) if he/she got a 5 in AP Calculus BC. There is no way one can skip Multivariable Calculus and/or Linear Algebra by saying "I took Linear Algebra in HS or a class in U Md". If one skip both 1st and 2nd years of Math and march on to Discrete Math (CS70) as a first math class in college, be prepare to be surprised. Do people really believe that Calculus classes in U MD are comparable to the Calculus classes in UC Berkeley/MIT/ Cal Tech?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Or, look at it this way. Right now your child is on track to take AP Calculus in 11th grade and to need to take yet another math course to graduate. What actual harm is done if they take Calculus as a senior instead?

Since this question has come up repeatedly.

Some of us are thinking ahead. Admission to competitive STEM majors, in particular CS, is separate from admission to an undergrad institution as a whole. Unfortunately there just aren’t enough CS PhDs who are qualified and want to be academics. So the limited spots in, for example, the EECS major at Cal will go to kids who have already taken Linear algebra.

It’s not about beating another kid. It’s about not letting an Education admistrator decide which doors to close to a 9 year old that they’ve never met.

It depends on what you consider stem. I think parents over inflate the importance of STEM. You can do just fine as long as you have calculus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about 3rd grade kid who consistently scores 99th percentile in MAP but got a B at some point in the past few months? Kid understands the content and is bored. Not sure why the B. Well this preclude him from compacted next year?

Maybe kid'll be our next Einstein.

Did Einstein get precluded from 4/5 math?!!

Einstein did math problems at home. People should worry less about what your doing in school than what you’re doing out of school.

I’m curious whatever happened to lifelong learning?

My kid does really well in tests but only gets "B's" in most subjects. Why? Is he a bad student? I'd agree there certain things he has trouble with and must study. However, it's also true he just got used to tuning out the teacher ever since First Grade. He was just too bored. MCPS at the ES is like a cafeteria - they serve what they've got and grade on the menu. He also had one really, really bad teacher that soured his outlook on life-long learning.

To compensate, our family just supplement with tutors now so we don't have to worry as much when MCPS leadership and AEI messes up. I'm sure there will be someone on this thread that says "oh, this person is rich" - but we started doing all this when our family lived in a "bottom-three" HS feeder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Or, look at it this way. Right now your child is on track to take AP Calculus in 11th grade and to need to take yet another math course to graduate. What actual harm is done if they take Calculus as a senior instead?

Since this question has come up repeatedly.

Some of us are thinking ahead. Admission to competitive STEM majors, in particular CS, is separate from admission to an undergrad institution as a whole. Unfortunately there just aren’t enough CS PhDs who are qualified and want to be academics. So the limited spots in, for example, the EECS major at Cal will go to kids who have already taken Linear algebra.

It’s not about beating another kid. It’s about not letting an Education admistrator decide which doors to close to a 9 year old that they’ve never met.

Great info about Cal. But at UC Berkeley, one can skip 1st year Math (not 1 semester) if he/she got a 5 in AP Calculus BC. There is no way one can skip Multivariable Calculus and/or Linear Algebra by saying "I took Linear Algebra in HS or a class in U Md". If one skip both 1st and 2nd years of Math and march on to Discrete Math (CS70) as a first math class in college, be prepare to be surprised. Do people really believe that Calculus classes in U MD are comparable to the Calculus classes in UC Berkeley/MIT/ Cal Tech?

You don’t understand. You apply TO THE MAJOR as a high school senior (see https://eecs.berkeley.edu/academics/undergraduate/eecs-bs).

So you greatly benefit from demonstrated ability to pursue math at a high level, in courses taken at the HS level.

For those who will respond that this is just one institution, think about how the landscape for admissions generally has changed in the last 10
years. For those who will respond that this is just one profession, consider what’s happened in Econ PhD program admission. The most important grade on your undergrad transcript will be real analysis (not an Econ course).

[Anonymous]

oh, can my 3rd grader who scored 260 on fall MAP taking math 5/6 next year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:oh, can my 3rd grader who scored 260 on fall MAP taking math 5/6 next year?

Absolutely! As long as they have the score AND have received an A in each quarter of Compacted 4/5 AND have earned high scores on the Compacted 4/5 district assessments each quarter. As long as your brilliant child has met all 3 of those entrance criteria, I don't see why not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Or, look at it this way. Right now your child is on track to take AP Calculus in 11th grade and to need to take yet another math course to graduate. What actual harm is done if they take Calculus as a senior instead?

Since this question has come up repeatedly.

Some of us are thinking ahead. Admission to competitive STEM majors, in particular CS, is separate from admission to an undergrad institution as a whole. Unfortunately there just aren’t enough CS PhDs who are qualified and want to be academics. So the limited spots in, for example, the EECS major at Cal will go to kids who have already taken Linear algebra.

It’s not about beating another kid. It’s about not letting an Education admistrator decide which doors to close to a 9 year old that they’ve never met.

Yes, and if my uncoordinated 9th grader isn't allowed onto the varsity soccer team it will impact her chances of being selected for a Division I scholarship.

Except my kid isn't on the path for a D1 scholarship and I need to accept that in the same way that PP needs to accept that their 60th percentil math kid is not on their way to MIT and therefore not taking Linear Algebra in 12th is a moot point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 A lot of folks don't get it, because it is what we grew up with, but the whole system of standardized testing was designed to keep people out of elite institutions. It might seem innocuous to give analogies about sailboats, but think about it for a minute.

I think you're conflating math the language portions of standardized testing.

No, PP. Please read up on the inherent inequities of standardized testing which include all topics. As others have noted, to succeed in getting the highest scores, particularly in this year, kids supplement classroom teaching through tutoring and/or parental instruction and/or special programs to enhance their scores. In addition, there are clearly parents, who know the drill; they know to prep because they know that these tests essentially cement a track for students from which many opportunities will be determined or denied. Not all parents have this insight or are as savvy. They don’t know the system.

Kids in lower SES groups are disadvantaged in this system. And in this year, when so many kids were doing DL at home while a parent had to work simultaneously or - as many kids in my DC’s Title I elementary school - were left in the care of an older sibling, sometimes not much older than the student (middle school or high school) these kids were especially left behind. Now we have the county suddenly raising the bar mid flight for kids who given the hard work and graded they put in, are earning As but may not have done as well on the MAP because they didn’t have the advantages of a parent or other resources to fill the gaps that math 4/5 didn’t cover in class. It’s outrageous. Sure, you want to start 3rd graders with a 90th threshold, then start that next year when - hopefully - kids will have a chance to regain any lost ground. The only people who support this nonsense are those who feel superior by excluding kids; it’s an ego boost. If a kid is getting As in 4/5 and thriving, they earn a spot in a 5/6 class. Period.

I’m sorry, but this is ridiculous. Let me introduce a relevant example of situations I am familiar with.

Kid A: Parents strictly enforce screen time limits, with no screen time allowed on weekdays. Purchased Beast Academy workbooks and require kid to complete an extra problem set each week. Parents check homework every day. In compacted math.

Kid B: Parents allow kid to play Minecraft 1-2 hours a day. No one checks on completion of homework. Not in compacted math.

Kid A is Black and parents are middle class. Kid B is white and parents are wealthy. Keeping in mind that these are real people that I know, I would love for you to explain to me how Kid A’s Black parents are committing inequality against Kid B. That extra work is producing results. Particularly with math, outside of the true geniuses, the kids that put in the work get the results and the standardized tests are a measure of the work that is put in. It is not inequality.

I think it's great for whoever wants to put in extra work outside school in math. It seems like the parents have a lot to do with it; and when we generalize, which I think we have to in this situation, a lot of the kids who aren't doing the extra work aren't doing it because their parents are poor and struggling. How many kids of their own volition would rather do Khan Academy? It's mostly parental push. Plus, shouldn't the school teach the accelerated math? Taking the course should be enough, right?

Not to mention, my kids (and DH and I) are like Kid A but we’ve been taking our queues for how hard to push from teachers who consistently told me DS was doing great in compacted math. DC got As and special shout outs for doing great in math. I took them at their word and yet my child’s MAP score isn’t 85 / 90th percentile. Now hearing that DC will be shut out of a track that will mean they are now essentially never going to make it in a science/math program in college. Wow, if only someone had said that despite all of the accolades from teachers my child was actually underachieving and can’t move to compacted math 5/6.

This is not right and not acceptable. I know I’m not alone. And I’m so sick of the smugness on this thread. It’s exactly why this pathetic system perpetuates. Some of you get off on it.

You are not alone - I have one of these kids. Mine has test anxiety, but gets special props from the teacher in class and on the tests themselves. Rarely does my kid get anything below a perfect score on the exit tickets and EOM assessments. The 3rd grade teacher recognized this immediately and still recommended for compacted. Fourth grade teacher also acknowledged this was clear during our conference without us mentioning it. Sometimes the scores are in the 90s and sometimes they are in the 70s - clearly the MAP doesn't work well for this kid.

[Anonymous]

Do we know yet what the cutoff is to be allowed to continue from Math 4/5 to math 5/6? Or will that be a school specific decision?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do we know yet what the cutoff is to be allowed to continue from Math 4/5 to math 5/6? Or will that be a school specific decision?

The report above says that the recommendation is 3 parts: 1) 90% or above on MAP-M in the fall or Spring; All As on report cards + all 4s or 5s in County assessments.

How having an almost perfect record in Math in 4th Grade connects to learning loss during the pandemic has not been announced.

[Anonymous]

How having an almost perfect record in Math in 4th Grade connects to learning loss during the pandemic has not been announced.

This is the truly bothersome point for me. It’s because they said so. Or it’s because of some unshared information about how well, or not, students are doing in Algebra. Or it’s about some new educational studies about acceleration. I would like to hear how any of these lines in the sand connect to learning loss. If on Day 1 Principals, teachers, parents and students had been told “All As or else” many would have approached things differently this year; or at least would have been given the option of deciding whether it was worth the pandemic energy to them.

Math acceleration can be important to families for any number of reasons; there’s no reason to limit it as a scarce resource. Guaranteed it is not the reason MCPS kids are underperforming on standardized tests. Admin should leave it be.