Compacted Math- FYI

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to my son's teacher. Each principal is handling things differently. My principal is moving everyone forward but they are going to review everyone at the end of the 1st quarter and knock kids down who are not ready. He said that other schools are following the county recommendations and moving kids down for the start of the year as it can be traumatic to have to switch classes midway through. I am not sure what is best, but I know I will be working with my child this summer.

Wow, that's very different than our case, where they're planning to cut down from 3/4 compacted math classes in the school to just 1/4. They said that compacted math was always meant for a very small subset of kids, but we know that the kids at our school are much more advanced in math than the average. For instance, my son got a 95th percentile nationally on the Cogat, whereas in MCPS it was just 77th, but we know that the MCPS score was based on schools with similar FARMs rates. (And not all kids take the Cogat.) My point being probably a lot more than 25% of the kids at our school are in the top 10-15% nationally in math and that they are not served by the regular curriculum. They're making it sound like you have to be a genius to be in compacted math and I just don't think that's the case.

MCPS has the same scores for all the schools, not just the rich schools. All kids who take the Cogat.

Not according to this: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/elementary/Understanding%20the%20CES%20Selection%20Process%204.419.pdf
"MCPS CogAT® percentiles are locally normed percentiles established based on the three sections of the CogAT®. Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms as an equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access."

"The locally normed percentiles on the CogAT® assessment were created from the distribution of Standard Age Scores (SAS) for students based on the socioeconomic status of elementary schools"

I'm not saying I disagree with the approach necessarily, I just don't like the fact that it's somehow hidden.

[Anonymous]

See also previous DCUM discussion https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/781457.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to my son's teacher. Each principal is handling things differently. My principal is moving everyone forward but they are going to review everyone at the end of the 1st quarter and knock kids down who are not ready. He said that other schools are following the county recommendations and moving kids down for the start of the year as it can be traumatic to have to switch classes midway through. I am not sure what is best, but I know I will be working with my child this summer.

Wow, that's very different than our case, where they're planning to cut down from 3/4 compacted math classes in the school to just 1/4. They said that compacted math was always meant for a very small subset of kids, but we know that the kids at our school are much more advanced in math than the average. For instance, my son got a 95th percentile nationally on the Cogat, whereas in MCPS it was just 77th, but we know that the MCPS score was based on schools with similar FARMs rates. (And not all kids take the Cogat.) My point being probably a lot more than 25% of the kids at our school are in the top 10-15% nationally in math and that they are not served by the regular curriculum. They're making it sound like you have to be a genius to be in compacted math and I just don't think that's the case.

But it’s possible other schools had a smaller group to begin with, just including the top math students, and didn’t need to cut down. Our school has one compacted math class, and the kids in it are generally top students anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to my son's teacher. Each principal is handling things differently. My principal is moving everyone forward but they are going to review everyone at the end of the 1st quarter and knock kids down who are not ready. He said that other schools are following the county recommendations and moving kids down for the start of the year as it can be traumatic to have to switch classes midway through. I am not sure what is best, but I know I will be working with my child this summer.

Wow, that's very different than our case, where they're planning to cut down from 3/4 compacted math classes in the school to just 1/4. They said that compacted math was always meant for a very small subset of kids, but we know that the kids at our school are much more advanced in math than the average. For instance, my son got a 95th percentile nationally on the Cogat, whereas in MCPS it was just 77th, but we know that the MCPS score was based on schools with similar FARMs rates. (And not all kids take the Cogat.) My point being probably a lot more than 25% of the kids at our school are in the top 10-15% nationally in math and that they are not served by the regular curriculum. They're making it sound like you have to be a genius to be in compacted math and I just don't think that's the case.

But it’s possible other schools had a smaller group to begin with, just including the top math students, and didn’t need to cut down. Our school has one compacted math class, and the kids in it are generally top students anyway.

Honestly, there is also probably more parent pressure at the wealthier schools to have most children included in compacted math, when maybe it wasn’t meant to be. So this is adjusting things back to what they should be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to my son's teacher. Each principal is handling things differently. My principal is moving everyone forward but they are going to review everyone at the end of the 1st quarter and knock kids down who are not ready. He said that other schools are following the county recommendations and moving kids down for the start of the year as it can be traumatic to have to switch classes midway through. I am not sure what is best, but I know I will be working with my child this summer.

Wow, that's very different than our case, where they're planning to cut down from 3/4 compacted math classes in the school to just 1/4. They said that compacted math was always meant for a very small subset of kids, but we know that the kids at our school are much more advanced in math than the average. For instance, my son got a 95th percentile nationally on the Cogat, whereas in MCPS it was just 77th, but we know that the MCPS score was based on schools with similar FARMs rates. (And not all kids take the Cogat.) My point being probably a lot more than 25% of the kids at our school are in the top 10-15% nationally in math and that they are not served by the regular curriculum. They're making it sound like you have to be a genius to be in compacted math and I just don't think that's the case.

MCPS has the same scores for all the schools, not just the rich schools. All kids who take the Cogat.

Not according to this: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/elementary/Understanding%20the%20CES%20Selection%20Process%204.419.pdf
"MCPS CogAT® percentiles are locally normed percentiles established based on the three sections of the CogAT®. Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms as an equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access."

"The locally normed percentiles on the CogAT® assessment were created from the distribution of Standard Age Scores (SAS) for students based on the socioeconomic status of elementary schools"

I'm not saying I disagree with the approach necessarily, I just don't like the fact that it's somehow hidden.

MCPS is in an island of their own. My kid got very high scores and wasn't selected into the Magnet for middle in a high farms school. I suspect it also has to do with race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone heard about 4/5?

Not us.

Not us either. We were told tomorrow, Tuesday.

Does that mean we can expect a letter home then? Or an email? Thanks!

We got a paper letter.

We are virtual - are you? Just curious what to look for.

In person. Not sure how they handle virtual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to my son's teacher. Each principal is handling things differently. My principal is moving everyone forward but they are going to review everyone at the end of the 1st quarter and knock kids down who are not ready. He said that other schools are following the county recommendations and moving kids down for the start of the year as it can be traumatic to have to switch classes midway through. I am not sure what is best, but I know I will be working with my child this summer.

Wow, that's very different than our case, where they're planning to cut down from 3/4 compacted math classes in the school to just 1/4. They said that compacted math was always meant for a very small subset of kids, but we know that the kids at our school are much more advanced in math than the average. For instance, my son got a 95th percentile nationally on the Cogat, whereas in MCPS it was just 77th, but we know that the MCPS score was based on schools with similar FARMs rates. (And not all kids take the Cogat.) My point being probably a lot more than 25% of the kids at our school are in the top 10-15% nationally in math and that they are not served by the regular curriculum. They're making it sound like you have to be a genius to be in compacted math and I just don't think that's the case.

But it’s possible other schools had a smaller group to begin with, just including the top math students, and didn’t need to cut down. Our school has one compacted math class, and the kids in it are generally top students anyway.

Honestly, there is also probably more parent pressure at the wealthier schools to have most children included in compacted math, when maybe it wasn’t meant to be. So this is adjusting things back to what they should be.

[PP who said "Wow, that's very different..." here] I definitely don't deny that could be an issue! In general there are parents who want to push their kids regardless of the reality of how their kid is doing. It does seem like there's a ton of variability between schools in general, which I think is a bit of an issue (I do think it's good to have some flexibility though and accept that it's very hard to find a balance). Mostly, I just don't like the fact that there aren't more options (my kid got "enrichment" grades 1-3 in math that was basically just 2 pages of "math puzzles" a quarter or something along those lines) and that things are communicated very late in the game and in a misleading way (eg "don't worry about the MAP scores, we don't use them for anything, actually we do..." "here is the MCPS percentile for the Cogat... actually it's calculated in this very complicated way, it's not the actual MCPS percentile"). I also have to say that my son has had at least one math teacher who was very confused about division by 0 so it's not always the case that the teacher knows best....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to my son's teacher. Each principal is handling things differently. My principal is moving everyone forward but they are going to review everyone at the end of the 1st quarter and knock kids down who are not ready. He said that other schools are following the county recommendations and moving kids down for the start of the year as it can be traumatic to have to switch classes midway through. I am not sure what is best, but I know I will be working with my child this summer.

My daughter got As all year and then was put in 5 math for next year. I didn’t understand what happened until I saw this thread, so thanks to the OP for posting it here.

I contacted the school and I have to now talk to the principal later this week about her placement. I am not too anxious about her taking compacted math so much as I think that had she not been achieving at a rate that would put her in it, I should have been told earlier. My daughter rarely asks me for help and has not been having anxiety over the coursework, like some of her friends have experienced this year. The response is just “stuff changed”. Okay. So still…..As would imply a mastery of material. I don’t like the lack of communication. It can impact a child’s esteem to be knocked back, particularly without a reason. So, I’ll talk with them later this week. I’m just going to note that I have never requested any meetings in the past. The only times in the past I spoke to the principal was when the school had some inexplicable issue where they constantly sent my daughter on the wrong bus. Not exactly helicopter parenting too want a child to get to the right neighborhood after school.

The school can’t really gauge how they’re doing this year. It’s too complicated without interaction. I think this was based on MAP scores, which should never be the full measure. In any case, sending home a form letter the last day is weak.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to my son's teacher. Each principal is handling things differently. My principal is moving everyone forward but they are going to review everyone at the end of the 1st quarter and knock kids down who are not ready. He said that other schools are following the county recommendations and moving kids down for the start of the year as it can be traumatic to have to switch classes midway through. I am not sure what is best, but I know I will be working with my child this summer.

My daughter got As all year and then was put in 5 math for next year. I didn’t understand what happened until I saw this thread, so thanks to the OP for posting it here.

I contacted the school and I have to now talk to the principal later this week about her placement. I am not too anxious about her taking compacted math so much as I think that had she not been achieving at a rate that would put her in it, I should have been told earlier. My daughter rarely asks me for help and has not been having anxiety over the coursework, like some of her friends have experienced this year. The response is just “stuff changed”. Okay. So still…..As would imply a mastery of material. I don’t like the lack of communication. It can impact a child’s esteem to be knocked back, particularly without a reason. So, I’ll talk with them later this week. I’m just going to note that I have never requested any meetings in the past. The only times in the past I spoke to the principal was when the school had some inexplicable issue where they constantly sent my daughter on the wrong bus. Not exactly helicopter parenting too want a child to get to the right neighborhood after school.

The school can’t really gauge how they’re doing this year. It’s too complicated without interaction. I think this was based on MAP scores, which should never be the full measure. In any case, sending home a form letter the last day is weak.

Good for you. This whole thing is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

I just want to note…..if we feel like this as parents……imagine working for MCPS….I’d imagine that dropping these things like this don’t new behavior.

Sorry for all the angry E-Mails you’re getting, Teachers. A lot of us know it’s not all on you, but there aren’t other people to ask!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to my son's teacher. Each principal is handling things differently. My principal is moving everyone forward but they are going to review everyone at the end of the 1st quarter and knock kids down who are not ready. He said that other schools are following the county recommendations and moving kids down for the start of the year as it can be traumatic to have to switch classes midway through. I am not sure what is best, but I know I will be working with my child this summer.

Wow, that's very different than our case, where they're planning to cut down from 3/4 compacted math classes in the school to just 1/4. They said that compacted math was always meant for a very small subset of kids, but we know that the kids at our school are much more advanced in math than the average. For instance, my son got a 95th percentile nationally on the Cogat, whereas in MCPS it was just 77th, but we know that the MCPS score was based on schools with similar FARMs rates. (And not all kids take the Cogat.) My point being probably a lot more than 25% of the kids at our school are in the top 10-15% nationally in math and that they are not served by the regular curriculum. They're making it sound like you have to be a genius to be in compacted math and I just don't think that's the case.

But it’s possible other schools had a smaller group to begin with, just including the top math students, and didn’t need to cut down. Our school has one compacted math class, and the kids in it are generally top students anyway.

Honestly, there is also probably more parent pressure at the wealthier schools to have most children included in compacted math, when maybe it wasn’t meant to be. So this is adjusting things back to what they should be.

Actually, putting kids in compacted to appease their parents who don't belong there just slows down the class. This is like those wealthy ms where everyone is in honors so basically nobody is really in honors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to my son's teacher. Each principal is handling things differently. My principal is moving everyone forward but they are going to review everyone at the end of the 1st quarter and knock kids down who are not ready. He said that other schools are following the county recommendations and moving kids down for the start of the year as it can be traumatic to have to switch classes midway through. I am not sure what is best, but I know I will be working with my child this summer.

Wow, that's very different than our case, where they're planning to cut down from 3/4 compacted math classes in the school to just 1/4. They said that compacted math was always meant for a very small subset of kids, but we know that the kids at our school are much more advanced in math than the average. For instance, my son got a 95th percentile nationally on the Cogat, whereas in MCPS it was just 77th, but we know that the MCPS score was based on schools with similar FARMs rates. (And not all kids take the Cogat.) My point being probably a lot more than 25% of the kids at our school are in the top 10-15% nationally in math and that they are not served by the regular curriculum. They're making it sound like you have to be a genius to be in compacted math and I just don't think that's the case.

But it’s possible other schools had a smaller group to begin with, just including the top math students, and didn’t need to cut down. Our school has one compacted math class, and the kids in it are generally top students anyway.

Honestly, there is also probably more parent pressure at the wealthier schools to have most children included in compacted math, when maybe it wasn’t meant to be. So this is adjusting things back to what they should be.

Actually, putting kids in compacted to appease their parents who don't belong there just slows down the class. This is like those wealthy ms where everyone is in honors so basically nobody is really in honors.

I totally agree with this! (And have seen this in action at the college level in various subject areas.) However, in this particular scenario, it's pretty clear that the county sees this as a stepping stone to eliminating Compacted Math (probably while continuing to not offer other options). One of our school admins actually said this during the online meeting to discuss this with the parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to my son's teacher. Each principal is handling things differently. My principal is moving everyone forward but they are going to review everyone at the end of the 1st quarter and knock kids down who are not ready. He said that other schools are following the county recommendations and moving kids down for the start of the year as it can be traumatic to have to switch classes midway through. I am not sure what is best, but I know I will be working with my child this summer.

Wow, that's very different than our case, where they're planning to cut down from 3/4 compacted math classes in the school to just 1/4. They said that compacted math was always meant for a very small subset of kids, but we know that the kids at our school are much more advanced in math than the average. For instance, my son got a 95th percentile nationally on the Cogat, whereas in MCPS it was just 77th, but we know that the MCPS score was based on schools with similar FARMs rates. (And not all kids take the Cogat.) My point being probably a lot more than 25% of the kids at our school are in the top 10-15% nationally in math and that they are not served by the regular curriculum. They're making it sound like you have to be a genius to be in compacted math and I just don't think that's the case.

But it’s possible other schools had a smaller group to begin with, just including the top math students, and didn’t need to cut down. Our school has one compacted math class, and the kids in it are generally top students anyway.

Honestly, there is also probably more parent pressure at the wealthier schools to have most children included in compacted math, when maybe it wasn’t meant to be. So this is adjusting things back to what they should be.

Actually, putting kids in compacted to appease their parents who don't belong there just slows down the class. This is like those wealthy ms where everyone is in honors so basically nobody is really in honors.

I totally agree with this! (And have seen this in action at the college level in various subject areas.) However, in this particular scenario, it's pretty clear that the county sees this as a stepping stone to eliminating Compacted Math (probably while continuing to not offer other options). One of our school admins actually said this during the online meeting to discuss this with the parents.

Does the superintendent have significant holdings in Kumon or something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to my son's teacher. Each principal is handling things differently. My principal is moving everyone forward but they are going to review everyone at the end of the 1st quarter and knock kids down who are not ready. He said that other schools are following the county recommendations and moving kids down for the start of the year as it can be traumatic to have to switch classes midway through. I am not sure what is best, but I know I will be working with my child this summer.

Wow, that's very different than our case, where they're planning to cut down from 3/4 compacted math classes in the school to just 1/4. They said that compacted math was always meant for a very small subset of kids, but we know that the kids at our school are much more advanced in math than the average. For instance, my son got a 95th percentile nationally on the Cogat, whereas in MCPS it was just 77th, but we know that the MCPS score was based on schools with similar FARMs rates. (And not all kids take the Cogat.) My point being probably a lot more than 25% of the kids at our school are in the top 10-15% nationally in math and that they are not served by the regular curriculum. They're making it sound like you have to be a genius to be in compacted math and I just don't think that's the case.

MCPS has the same scores for all the schools, not just the rich schools. All kids who take the Cogat.

Not according to this: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/elementary/Understanding%20the%20CES%20Selection%20Process%204.419.pdf
"MCPS CogAT® percentiles are locally normed percentiles established based on the three sections of the CogAT®. Gifted and talented experts recommend the use of local norms as an equitable approach to ensure equity and access in identification of students for program access."

"The locally normed percentiles on the CogAT® assessment were created from the distribution of Standard Age Scores (SAS) for students based on the socioeconomic status of elementary schools"

I'm not saying I disagree with the approach necessarily, I just don't like the fact that it's somehow hidden.

MCPS is in an island of their own. My kid got very high scores and wasn't selected into the Magnet for middle in a high farms school. I suspect it also has to do with race.

If s/he wasn't a straight 99% in testing plus straight As, then there were many other students that outperformed.

[Anonymous]

FWIW my kid did get placed into Math 5/6, with B A A in MPs 1-3 and MAP scores of 227 and 232. His teacher said 232 is 95th percentile, which I was a bit surprised by (thought it'd be lower based on previous years - we don't have the official report yet, I just asked the teacher for his score) I have no idea how he did on the other assessments they considered.