"Opening up" means risking your life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The tests are in labs and have been for a while. Some say ‘too expensive to implement’ because they aren’t getting the supplies to do it from China. China controls so much of our medical product and some are just seeing that now.

Actually, they are too expensive because the Kushner committee has made it expensive for the graft. It isn't so expensive in every other country around the world.

[Anonymous]

Cross contamination at CDC lab, it appears, led to delays. What a huge f***up. Our scientists are human after all, it seems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There should be zero assistance to states that re-open and have skyrocketing rates of covid-19. No respirators should be sent. No Federal aid. Nothing.

Everyone who refuses to wear a mask and insists on going back to their normal lives without social distancing or any other precautionary measures should be forced to sign away their right to all health care if they get sick with covid19. They will have to stay home and die (or recover) there. And they will have to pay the health care costs of anyone they infect with covid19.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Again for the 60% of the United States that is healthy and again has very little risk of serious complications

Why aren't we allowing at least social distancing with masks

Well, do you know who these people are? Do you know which of these healthy looking people is asymptomatic? How can you tell?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There should be zero assistance to states that re-open and have skyrocketing rates of covid-19. No respirators should be sent. No Federal aid. Nothing.

Everyone who refuses to wear a mask and insists on going back to their normal lives without social distancing or any other precautionary measures should be forced to sign away their right to all health care if they get sick with covid19. They will have to stay home and die (or recover) there. And they will have to pay the health care costs of anyone they infect with covid19.

Lol that’s cute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there's no magic pot of money for perpetual government assistance. High unemployment and prolonged lockdowns will cause civil unrest. You don't care about job losses because you can afford to hunker down in your comfortable house with your adequate savings while millions suffer.

Mortality rate less than 2%. We have ramped up our medical preparedness, and there are empty beds and unused ventilators even in "hotspots". Drug overdoses, suicide, influenza, heart disease, cancer kill more people annually. Crazy anti-vaxxers will never immunize. We need herd immunity to squelch the virus, not hiding in our homes.

The WHO is in China's pocket, the director is corrupt. If they are squealing about funding, let China fund them. China pays about 10% of what we pay the WHO, and they can afford more.

Since you had to make it about Trump, I'll flip the script. This plan to control everyone's movements, make people dependent on government payouts, and destroy civil liberties is a leftist wet dream. Don't pretend you're not enjoying this.

Totally agree with this.
And, I'll add...... there is a rise in suicides during financial crises. https://www.forbes.com/sites/melaniehaiken/2014/06/12/more-than-10000-suicides-tied-to-economic-crisis-study-says/#2e0097b77ae2
People want to be productive. Being forced to remain at home causes depression for many. And, there is also the concern for domestic abuse and child abuse.
I can't imagine what it's like for some of these people who are confined to their homes 24/7 with their abusers. And, the financial stress isn't going to make the abuser's behavior any better.

All you people ever have are lies and distortions. You act all concerned about people when you just want to use them as pawns to support your ideology.

https://www.history.com/news/great-depression-economy-life-expectancy

“In fact, historical research shows that during the 20th century, increases in U.S. mortality often occurred during times of economic prosperity, while decreases occurred during economic depressions or recessions.“


Now that you know the truth will you start to support more social distancing? Of course not, because you don’t actually give a shit about people dying. You just value he economy more than human life.


Why do you want more people to die?

Oh, FFS.

Some of you are acting like there is nothing between a total shut down and opening up full bore.
It IS possible to open up and still have reasonable social distancing, making sure personal hygiene is a top priority, and putting other protection in place.
And, here's a newsflash..... our economy dies.... our national security dies..... our country dies.

This.

We can go to Walmart and Lowe’s and social distancing is “encouraged” But they can still operate. So they might as well do it for every other business. If the company is able to operate and telework, great. But the small mom and pop shops shouldn’t have to suffer.

I read a story earlier about wineries being shut down. And it’s insane because you’re literally outdoors in most wineries around here. So the ABC store can be crowded in a small space but we can’t go to a 5 acre winery? It makes no sense.

I have to agree that this scenario (and others like it) make no sense.

Many people can do their work safely. The problem is the blanket requirement in many states that ALL businesses except those deemed "essential" (WWE is "essential" in Florida https://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-deems-wwe-pro-wrestling-essential-business-amid/story?id=70142785) have to close.

Wineries should be able to remain open. Single proprietor businesses or ones with very few employees and space to social distance, should be able to open. This requires a lot of people to make those judgements, and states do not have the personnel to make these case by case decisions. Yes, it's unfair, and it seems stupid, but given the choice between not closing and closing, the governors had to choose closing, knowing they would be forcing businesses to close who didn't need to close.

I don't know the answer to this -- do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Watch - Trump and his "task force" including Novarro are going to make sure ample testing supplies go directly to red states, just as PPE was directed to red states.

Has California Governor Gavin Newsom not received what he’s asked for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there's no magic pot of money for perpetual government assistance. High unemployment and prolonged lockdowns will cause civil unrest. You don't care about job losses because you can afford to hunker down in your comfortable house with your adequate savings while millions suffer.

Mortality rate less than 2%. We have ramped up our medical preparedness, and there are empty beds and unused ventilators even in "hotspots". Drug overdoses, suicide, influenza, heart disease, cancer kill more people annually. Crazy anti-vaxxers will never immunize. We need herd immunity to squelch the virus, not hiding in our homes.

The WHO is in China's pocket, the director is corrupt. If they are squealing about funding, let China fund them. China pays about 10% of what we pay the WHO, and they can afford more.

Since you had to make it about Trump, I'll flip the script. This plan to control everyone's movements, make people dependent on government payouts, and destroy civil liberties is a leftist wet dream. Don't pretend you're not enjoying this.

Totally agree with this.
And, I'll add...... there is a rise in suicides during financial crises. https://www.forbes.com/sites/melaniehaiken/2014/06/12/more-than-10000-suicides-tied-to-economic-crisis-study-says/#2e0097b77ae2
People want to be productive. Being forced to remain at home causes depression for many. And, there is also the concern for domestic abuse and child abuse.
I can't imagine what it's like for some of these people who are confined to their homes 24/7 with their abusers. And, the financial stress isn't going to make the abuser's behavior any better.

All you people ever have are lies and distortions. You act all concerned about people when you just want to use them as pawns to support your ideology.

https://www.history.com/news/great-depression-economy-life-expectancy

“In fact, historical research shows that during the 20th century, increases in U.S. mortality often occurred during times of economic prosperity, while decreases occurred during economic depressions or recessions.“


Now that you know the truth will you start to support more social distancing? Of course not, because you don’t actually give a shit about people dying. You just value he economy more than human life.


Why do you want more people to die?

Oh, FFS.

Some of you are acting like there is nothing between a total shut down and opening up full bore.
It IS possible to open up and still have reasonable social distancing, making sure personal hygiene is a top priority, and putting other protection in place.
And, here's a newsflash..... our economy dies.... our national security dies..... our country dies.

This.

We can go to Walmart and Lowe’s and social distancing is “encouraged” But they can still operate. So they might as well do it for every other business. If the company is able to operate and telework, great. But the small mom and pop shops shouldn’t have to suffer.

I read a story earlier about wineries being shut down. And it’s insane because you’re literally outdoors in most wineries around here. So the ABC store can be crowded in a small space but we can’t go to a 5 acre winery? It makes no sense.

I have to agree that this scenario (and others like it) make no sense.

Many people can do their work safely. The problem is the blanket requirement in many states that ALL businesses except those deemed "essential" (WWE is "essential" in Florida https://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-deems-wwe-pro-wrestling-essential-business-amid/story?id=70142785) have to close.

Wineries should be able to remain open. Single proprietor businesses or ones with very few employees and space to social distance, should be able to open. This requires a lot of people to make those judgements, and states do not have the personnel to make these case by case decisions. Yes, it's unfair, and it seems stupid, but given the choice between not closing and closing, the governors had to choose closing, knowing they would be forcing businesses to close who didn't need to close.

I don't know the answer to this -- do you?

Only thing I can think of is if it’s a NYSE publicly traded company, you can be open and become a monopoly. If you’re a small business, you must die. Even though it’s the same social distancing rules. The big box stores don’t even follow the rule of 10 or less than 100 shoppers rule anyways so it makes no sense.

Hell, you would have LESS crowded Wal-Marts and Lowe’s if you’re local mom and pop tool shops could remain open.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, I think you are still focused on preventing infection. This is simply impossible to do. If it was possible, we would have done it with the seasonal flu since it kills so many people each year. As is, even vaccination is a hit or miss for seasonal flu. The coronavirus by best current measures is *more* transmissive and *more* deadly. People who have been kept away from getting it now, will get it later. The only thing we can do is to spread out the infection over a longer time period. There is no way to prevent COVID-19 spread.

So, you're saying we should let it run its course, and whomever dies, dies?

Prior pandemics were stopped with aggressive testing and isolation measures. These have not happened in this pandemic, hence the virus has spread like wildfire. The only thing stopping more infection right now is social distancing. If the virus has no hosts, it will die out. That's what happens in all pandemics. Not everyone needs to be infected to end a pandemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that there must be someone in the Trump administration who believes that summer weather will mitigate the contagiousness of the virus. The science on that is mixed, at best, with more scientists seeming to think it will not make a material difference. In any event, absent a vaccine (and there won't be one for 12-18 months), the virus would come roaring back in or around September. But I honestly don't know what to do about a collapsing economy that seems to have little more going for it now than sales of food, toilet paper, and curbside delivery. The elites ("ruling" class) will always do whatever it takes to remain on top of the socioeconomic pyramid as they see it.

You are making a HUGE assumption that a vaccine will be developed that will be effective at protecting people from infection with covid19.

That's an enormous assumption because some diseases can't be prevented by vaccination. In 40 years, no effective vaccine against HIV has been developed. Yes, there are treatments that keep HIV infection at bay, but there's no vaccine and no cure.

There may never be an effective vaccine against covid19, so you can't count on a vaccine to end this pandemic. And you definitely can't count on a vaccine in the next year or so. Contact tracing, isolation and social distancing are all we have right now to fight this pandemic. Oh, and testing, testing, testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The other original sin was lying about the face masks. Four N95’s (two made by 3M) were approved for the public to wear during a pandemic prior to February. When the pandemic was heading our way in January these N95 masks were not available for the public. They as we all know were not even available for the healthcare workers. So because of this mask fiasco the government lied and told people not to wear masks and just wash your hands. Thousands and thousands of people died because of this lie. Bus drivers died, grocery store workers died, people all over this country died because they were not wearing a face mask. Even if they had worn a cloth mask it would have cut down on the viral load. This face mask lie killed people. Also many masks were sent to other countries before our states.

+ a billion

The face mask lie is inexcusable and unconscionable. The CDC has blood on its hands for this one. Disgraceful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, there is NO easy way to handle this.

We can't open up now. And we most likely can't open up next month either. PEOPLE WILL DIE.

We also can't lock everyone up for 18 months either. People will go broke, commit suicide or want to kill their domestic partners from cabin fever and isolation. PEOPLE WILL DIE.

We need a couple months more of stay at home. While we build up hospital infrastructure and ramp up production of testing supplies.

Then we'll need to make tradeoffs for different kinds of personal freedoms. Want to go out and see your friends? Fine, but you have to get a negative covid test first and if anyone shows symptoms, you have to take down names. The more we allow mobility, the more we may need to allow tracking and surveillance. Want to travel? Now you need medical testing to get a visa.

It is going to be HARD. Until there is a vaccine, there is GOING to be varying degrees of restriction, surveillance, repeated testing, and opening and closing of things periodically to make sure that the number of cases does not outpace hospital capacity.

Yes, I quite agree.

For example, colleges. I think students will be allowed back to rural campuses, but their freedom to come and go will be restricted. They may have to take online classes and stay in their rooms and get their temperature taken every day for two weeks, until the school is satisfied no one on campus has covid. Everyone who leaves campus will have to self-isolate for two weeks when they return. No parties, no large classes, no gatherings. Things will definitely be different, but colleges (some of them) will reopen. If contacts are traced for anyone getting sick, then restrictions can be loosened as time goes on. It won't be as it was for a long, long time. But life will go on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Watch - Trump and his "task force" including Novarro are going to make sure ample testing supplies go directly to red states, just as PPE was directed to red states.

Has California Governor Gavin Newsom not received what he’s asked for?

Not even close. Are you not seeing the articles about hospitals and blue states needing national guard troops to protect their ordered goods from DHS seizure? This is happening all over th country where the "brown shirts" are basically pirating needed supplies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that there must be someone in the Trump administration who believes that summer weather will mitigate the contagiousness of the virus. The science on that is mixed, at best, with more scientists seeming to think it will not make a material difference. In any event, absent a vaccine (and there won't be one for 12-18 months), the virus would come roaring back in or around September. But I honestly don't know what to do about a collapsing economy that seems to have little more going for it now than sales of food, toilet paper, and curbside delivery. The elites ("ruling" class) will always do whatever it takes to remain on top of the socioeconomic pyramid as they see it.

You are making a HUGE assumption that a vaccine will be developed that will be effective at protecting people from infection with covid19.

That's an enormous assumption because some diseases can't be prevented by vaccination. In 40 years, no effective vaccine against HIV has been developed. Yes, there are treatments that keep HIV infection at bay, but there's no vaccine and no cure.

There may never be an effective vaccine against covid19, so you can't count on a vaccine to end this pandemic. And you definitely can't count on a vaccine in the next year or so. Contact tracing, isolation and social distancing are all we have right now to fight this pandemic. Oh, and testing, testing, testing.

It’s not an enormous assumption given the general confidence of actual scientists, as opposed to the worry from posters who don’t actually know anything except the fear that is consuming them or their political agenda. Testing, testing, testing is not a plan—it’s a cliched slogan at this point. Widespread testing is key, but it must be combined with quarantining and contact tracing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, there is NO easy way to handle this.

We can't open up now. And we most likely can't open up next month either. PEOPLE WILL DIE.

We also can't lock everyone up for 18 months either. People will go broke, commit suicide or want to kill their domestic partners from cabin fever and isolation. PEOPLE WILL DIE.

We need a couple months more of stay at home. While we build up hospital infrastructure and ramp up production of testing supplies.

Then we'll need to make tradeoffs for different kinds of personal freedoms. Want to go out and see your friends? Fine, but you have to get a negative covid test first and if anyone shows symptoms, you have to take down names. The more we allow mobility, the more we may need to allow tracking and surveillance. Want to travel? Now you need medical testing to get a visa.

It is going to be HARD. Until there is a vaccine, there is GOING to be varying degrees of restriction, surveillance, repeated testing, and opening and closing of things periodically to make sure that the number of cases does not outpace hospital capacity.

Yeah, sure.

We're reopening May 15 regardless of what happens.

Who is "we"?

I'm not going into work on May 15, no way. I can do my job 100% at home, and I'm not going in until it's safe.
Nor am I sending my kids back to school until I'm sure it's safe.
I'm not going shopping, to movies, to parties, to meetings, to church, traveling, eating in restaurants, etc., until I'm sure it's safe.

You can experiment with your own life, but I'm not experimenting with mine or with my family's lives.