Naviance is wrong

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait a second, OP’s child had close to 1600 SAT and close to 4.0 unweighted gpa (and clearly a rigorous course load in weighted gpa was close to 5.0) and no one thinks it is unusual that he was rejected from UIUC?? Even with no extracurriculars he should have been a lock, come on. Frankly I am surprised he was not admitted to Carnegie Melon either, unless he applied to CS. I am sorry OP, that must be very disappointing to your son. I hope that he is happy with his admitted choice and I am sure that he will do great wherever he lands.

1520 sat, nearly 3.9 unweighted, lots of ecs, captain on sports team who were state champs, Eagle Scout - Carnegie Melon isn't even a possibility. Waitlisted @ Case Western.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait a second, OP’s child had close to 1600 SAT and close to 4.0 unweighted gpa (and clearly a rigorous course load in weighted gpa was close to 5.0) and no one thinks it is unusual that he was rejected from UIUC?? Even with no extracurriculars he should have been a lock, come on. Frankly I am surprised he was not admitted to Carnegie Melon either, unless he applied to CS. I am sorry OP, that must be very disappointing to your son. I hope that he is happy with his admitted choice and I am sure that he will do great wherever he lands.

1520 sat, nearly 3.9 unweighted, lots of ecs, captain on sports team who were state champs, Eagle Scout - Carnegie Melon isn't even a possibility. Waitlisted @ Case Western.

They practice yield protection there big time. Tuft’s syndrome

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think what that interviewer was saying is that not all aspects of the application are visible to you. Race is, so you latch onto that. Easier than accepting that perhaps, when MULTIPLE factors are taken into account (including the mix of kids they want to constitute that year’s incoming class)...your DD was not in the 94th percentile. Maybe she is in the 90th, of the whole United States, which is great...but someone beat her out. It’s okay. Not abusive.

I don’t think anyone is latching onto race, but you can’t deny that do take it into consideration, truly do. The ones that do - if I was a URM, I would apply in a heartbeat. That said, over 3/4 of Americans, including URM’s do not want race to be a reason to receive admission

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2019/03/04/survey-finds-most-americans-say-colleges-shouldnt-consider-race

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Weighted GPAs are worthless

2. High unweighted GPAs are not going to get you anywhere in the top 25 without a very rigorous course load with 4 years of every academic subject including foreign language.

3. Any college with a 25% or less acceptance rate is a lottery for kids with nearly perfect stats

4. Naviance does not account for recruits, legacies, courseload, first gen status, full pay status, etc.

5. It’s a tool, not a crystal ball.

DD had straight As, even in APs and honors, won the Wellesley Book Award, was a STEM student, could pay full tuition anywhere, cash. Played sports as well. Great SAT scores. White female with no legacy, rejected from everything but her safeties. Applied to no Ivys by choice.

Don’t tell me her race didn’t play a role in this liberal academic environment

I worked in admissions and am currently an alum interviewer for my college. Your daughter sounds like an excellent student, so I can understand your disappointment, but there's a lot more to admissions than GPA and SAT scores. Before you play the race card, consider:

What were her recommendations like?
How did she do in interviews?
Did her essay add dimension to her profile as a strong student?
Did she hold any leadership positions -- you mention that she played sports, but was she a team captain?
Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?

First, there IS no disappointment on my or my husband's part. She got into a nice college and has continued to do great.. I didn't WANT a top school, don't care. But boy was she pressured by her peer group in this area! What shocked me was the absolute ridiculousness of the process.

Her teachers, frankly, were stunned. Look at the list you just put up above. Does that also apply towards minorities, or is it ok if they don't meet your (frankly) abusive criteria above.

What you are saying as a college recruiter/interviewer is that kids need to get almost perfect SAT scores, over-perform in academics, be team captains, win national competitions, and hold leadership positions? These kids are TEENAGERS for Christ sakes!

Do you NOT see how absolutely absurd this is? My GOD if this is your criteria, you just proved my point as to how abusive and unrealistic college admissions has become. You are a major part of the problem.

I feel you. My white daughter needed some FA for most colleges and she was ousted from most of the schools she applied. Top 10% in her top 5 private, top grades, ACT 34, won a state championship for a science event, team captain to two varsity for 2 years. Played one of those sports in club setting since she was 12. President of two major clubs and heavily involved. Worked PT at an ice cream shop. 13 year Girl Scout and volunteered 2 weeks a summer at a Girl Scout camp. She interned for 8 weeks and received a fabulous recommendation from that internship on top of 3 other recommendations. Her college counselor said all were great. She was literally at school, at a club meeting, playing a sport, volunteering, or working PT her entire 4 years of colleges. Any free time she was studying. She barely had time to socialize. She loved her school. She gave it her all.

She then watched so many minorities and full pay rich white kids below her academically at her school (some barely involved) get to PICK between top schools. Her and three other obvious white FA kids got squat. One is potentially our valedictorian. They are going to UMCP after being denied at all reached and targets. Accepted to UMCP and Penn State only, which were both safeties. We have one student who had to repeat a grade and is still on Calc AB as a senior, get into an Ivy. It is very hard for these kids to swallow. They are taught to work hard and treat everyone equally and then they watch as colleges do not treat them fairly. But it is a hard, but important lesson to learn. My nephew got bumped from many tech schools and watched as girls who had similar or lesser stats get in AND get merit aid. No different than white males having an easier time at SLAC's. You have to find out which colleges need you or move to North Dakota. Stats and EC's are not enough. Colleges play the number game.

Same happened at our private. URM's got in everywhere. Even the Asian students which so many people in public complain they don't get into their top schools because of being Asian. It is a massive hook, no denying that. If you look at the private school college sweatshirt pics, you can see the obvious too.

How do you know that many of these kids didn't have some sort of connection to these schools? Like knowing people on the board of trustees or having a prominent person help them get in?

That is usually for the dumb rich while kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Weighted GPAs are worthless

2. High unweighted GPAs are not going to get you anywhere in the top 25 without a very rigorous course load with 4 years of every academic subject including foreign language.

3. Any college with a 25% or less acceptance rate is a lottery for kids with nearly perfect stats

4. Naviance does not account for recruits, legacies, courseload, first gen status, full pay status, etc.

5. It’s a tool, not a crystal ball.

DD had straight As, even in APs and honors, won the Wellesley Book Award, was a STEM student, could pay full tuition anywhere, cash. Played sports as well. Great SAT scores. White female with no legacy, rejected from everything but her safeties. Applied to no Ivys by choice.

Don’t tell me her race didn’t play a role in this liberal academic environment

I worked in admissions and am currently an alum interviewer for my college. Your daughter sounds like an excellent student, so I can understand your disappointment, but there's a lot more to admissions than GPA and SAT scores. Before you play the race card, consider:

What were her recommendations like?
How did she do in interviews?
Did her essay add dimension to her profile as a strong student?
Did she hold any leadership positions -- you mention that she played sports, but was she a team captain?
Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?

First, there IS no disappointment on my or my husband's part. She got into a nice college and has continued to do great.. I didn't WANT a top school, don't care. But boy was she pressured by her peer group in this area! What shocked me was the absolute ridiculousness of the process.

Her teachers, frankly, were stunned. Look at the list you just put up above. Does that also apply towards minorities, or is it ok if they don't meet your (frankly) abusive criteria above.

What you are saying as a college recruiter/interviewer is that kids need to get almost perfect SAT scores, over-perform in academics, be team captains, win national competitions, and hold leadership positions? These kids are TEENAGERS for Christ sakes!

Do you NOT see how absolutely absurd this is? My GOD if this is your criteria, you just proved my point as to how abusive and unrealistic college admissions has become. You are a major part of the problem.

I feel you. My white daughter needed some FA for most colleges and she was ousted from most of the schools she applied. Top 10% in her top 5 private, top grades, ACT 34, won a state championship for a science event, team captain to two varsity for 2 years. Played one of those sports in club setting since she was 12. President of two major clubs and heavily involved. Worked PT at an ice cream shop. 13 year Girl Scout and volunteered 2 weeks a summer at a Girl Scout camp. She interned for 8 weeks and received a fabulous recommendation from that internship on top of 3 other recommendations. Her college counselor said all were great. She was literally at school, at a club meeting, playing a sport, volunteering, or working PT her entire 4 years of colleges. Any free time she was studying. She barely had time to socialize. She loved her school. She gave it her all.

She then watched so many minorities and full pay rich white kids below her academically at her school (some barely involved) get to PICK between top schools. Her and three other obvious white FA kids got squat. One is potentially our valedictorian. They are going to UMCP after being denied at all reached and targets. Accepted to UMCP and Penn State only, which were both safeties. We have one student who had to repeat a grade and is still on Calc AB as a senior, get into an Ivy. It is very hard for these kids to swallow. They are taught to work hard and treat everyone equally and then they watch as colleges do not treat them fairly. But it is a hard, but important lesson to learn. My nephew got bumped from many tech schools and watched as girls who had similar or lesser stats get in AND get merit aid. No different than white males having an easier time at SLAC's. You have to find out which colleges need you or move to North Dakota. Stats and EC's are not enough. Colleges play the number game.

Same happened at our private. URM's got in everywhere. Even the Asian students which so many people in public complain they don't get into their top schools because of being Asian. It is a massive hook, no denying that. If you look at the private school college sweatshirt pics, you can see the obvious too.

I suggest you google and learn by yourself or ask someone knowledgeable to learn from them. Being Asian is not a hook whther massive or the littlest one. In fact, Asians are discriminated against in admissions over all races, especially including White race. Be happy you are not Asian or else your kid will fare even worse in college admissions than being white. Asians have to study harder, get higher GPA, get higher standardized test results and should have more impressive extra curricular achievements than whites to get comparable college admissions outcomes. Don't be a dumb ass and spout nonsense just because your snowflake didn't get into his/her dream school.

The poster acknowledged that Asians usually aren’t considered minority in some colleges, but said it was different at her school. The counselors probably know which schools don’t discriminate against. All the tech schools don’t. Many top 25 SLAC’s don’t. But yes, ivy’s Absolutely are harsh on Asians. Not sure why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Weighted GPAs are worthless

2. High unweighted GPAs are not going to get you anywhere in the top 25 without a very rigorous course load with 4 years of every academic subject including foreign language.

3. Any college with a 25% or less acceptance rate is a lottery for kids with nearly perfect stats

4. Naviance does not account for recruits, legacies, courseload, first gen status, full pay status, etc.

5. It’s a tool, not a crystal ball.

DD had straight As, even in APs and honors, won the Wellesley Book Award, was a STEM student, could pay full tuition anywhere, cash. Played sports as well. Great SAT scores. White female with no legacy, rejected from everything but her safeties. Applied to no Ivys by choice.

Don’t tell me her race didn’t play a role in this liberal academic environment

I worked in admissions and am currently an alum interviewer for my college. Your daughter sounds like an excellent student, so I can understand your disappointment, but there's a lot more to admissions than GPA and SAT scores. Before you play the race card, consider:

What were her recommendations like?
How did she do in interviews?
Did her essay add dimension to her profile as a strong student?
Did she hold any leadership positions -- you mention that she played sports, but was she a team captain?
Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?

First, there IS no disappointment on my or my husband's part. She got into a nice college and has continued to do great.. I didn't WANT a top school, don't care. But boy was she pressured by her peer group in this area! What shocked me was the absolute ridiculousness of the process.

Her teachers, frankly, were stunned. Look at the list you just put up above. Does that also apply towards minorities, or is it ok if they don't meet your (frankly) abusive criteria above.

What you are saying as a college recruiter/interviewer is that kids need to get almost perfect SAT scores, over-perform in academics, be team captains, win national competitions, and hold leadership positions? These kids are TEENAGERS for Christ sakes!

Do you NOT see how absolutely absurd this is? My GOD if this is your criteria, you just proved my point as to how abusive and unrealistic college admissions has become. You are a major part of the problem.

I feel you. My white daughter needed some FA for most colleges and she was ousted from most of the schools she applied. Top 10% in her top 5 private, top grades, ACT 34, won a state championship for a science event, team captain to two varsity for 2 years. Played one of those sports in club setting since she was 12. President of two major clubs and heavily involved. Worked PT at an ice cream shop. 13 year Girl Scout and volunteered 2 weeks a summer at a Girl Scout camp. She interned for 8 weeks and received a fabulous recommendation from that internship on top of 3 other recommendations. Her college counselor said all were great. She was literally at school, at a club meeting, playing a sport, volunteering, or working PT her entire 4 years of colleges. Any free time she was studying. She barely had time to socialize. She loved her school. She gave it her all.

She then watched so many minorities and full pay rich white kids below her academically at her school (some barely involved) get to PICK between top schools. Her and three other obvious white FA kids got squat. One is potentially our valedictorian. They are going to UMCP after being denied at all reached and targets. Accepted to UMCP and Penn State only, which were both safeties. We have one student who had to repeat a grade and is still on Calc AB as a senior, get into an Ivy. It is very hard for these kids to swallow. They are taught to work hard and treat everyone equally and then they watch as colleges do not treat them fairly. But it is a hard, but important lesson to learn. My nephew got bumped from many tech schools and watched as girls who had similar or lesser stats get in AND get merit aid. No different than white males having an easier time at SLAC's. You have to find out which colleges need you or move to North Dakota. Stats and EC's are not enough. Colleges play the number game.

If your kid's grammar is as bad as yours her essays might have done her in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Weighted GPAs are worthless

2. High unweighted GPAs are not going to get you anywhere in the top 25 without a very rigorous course load with 4 years of every academic subject including foreign language.

3. Any college with a 25% or less acceptance rate is a lottery for kids with nearly perfect stats

4. Naviance does not account for recruits, legacies, courseload, first gen status, full pay status, etc.

5. It’s a tool, not a crystal ball.

DD had straight As, even in APs and honors, won the Wellesley Book Award, was a STEM student, could pay full tuition anywhere, cash. Played sports as well. Great SAT scores. White female with no legacy, rejected from everything but her safeties. Applied to no Ivys by choice.

Don’t tell me her race didn’t play a role in this liberal academic environment

I worked in admissions and am currently an alum interviewer for my college. Your daughter sounds like an excellent student, so I can understand your disappointment, but there's a lot more to admissions than GPA and SAT scores. Before you play the race card, consider:

What were her recommendations like?
How did she do in interviews?
Did her essay add dimension to her profile as a strong student?
Did she hold any leadership positions -- you mention that she played sports, but was she a team captain?
Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?

First, there IS no disappointment on my or my husband's part. She got into a nice college and has continued to do great.. I didn't WANT a top school, don't care. But boy was she pressured by her peer group in this area! What shocked me was the absolute ridiculousness of the process.

Her teachers, frankly, were stunned. Look at the list you just put up above. Does that also apply towards minorities, or is it ok if they don't meet your (frankly) abusive criteria above.

What you are saying as a college recruiter/interviewer is that kids need to get almost perfect SAT scores, over-perform in academics, be team captains, win national competitions, and hold leadership positions? These kids are TEENAGERS for Christ sakes!

Do you NOT see how absolutely absurd this is? My GOD if this is your criteria, you just proved my point as to how abusive and unrealistic college admissions has become. You are a major part of the problem.

I feel you. My white daughter needed some FA for most colleges and she was ousted from most of the schools she applied. Top 10% in her top 5 private, top grades, ACT 34, won a state championship for a science event, team captain to two varsity for 2 years. Played one of those sports in club setting since she was 12. President of two major clubs and heavily involved. Worked PT at an ice cream shop. 13 year Girl Scout and volunteered 2 weeks a summer at a Girl Scout camp. She interned for 8 weeks and received a fabulous recommendation from that internship on top of 3 other recommendations. Her college counselor said all were great. She was literally at school, at a club meeting, playing a sport, volunteering, or working PT her entire 4 years of colleges. Any free time she was studying. She barely had time to socialize. She loved her school. She gave it her all.

She then watched so many minorities and full pay rich white kids below her academically at her school (some barely involved) get to PICK between top schools. Her and three other obvious white FA kids got squat. One is potentially our valedictorian. They are going to UMCP after being denied at all reached and targets. Accepted to UMCP and Penn State only, which were both safeties. We have one student who had to repeat a grade and is still on Calc AB as a senior, get into an Ivy. It is very hard for these kids to swallow. They are taught to work hard and treat everyone equally and then they watch as colleges do not treat them fairly. But it is a hard, but important lesson to learn. My nephew got bumped from many tech schools and watched as girls who had similar or lesser stats get in AND get merit aid. No different than white males having an easier time at SLAC's. You have to find out which colleges need you or move to North Dakota. Stats and EC's are not enough. Colleges play the number game.

If your kid's grammar is as bad as yours her essays might have done her in.

Check yourself PP. I see two in your simple sentence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Weighted GPAs are worthless

2. High unweighted GPAs are not going to get you anywhere in the top 25 without a very rigorous course load with 4 years of every academic subject including foreign language.

3. Any college with a 25% or less acceptance rate is a lottery for kids with nearly perfect stats

4. Naviance does not account for recruits, legacies, courseload, first gen status, full pay status, etc.

5. It’s a tool, not a crystal ball.

DD had straight As, even in APs and honors, won the Wellesley Book Award, was a STEM student, could pay full tuition anywhere, cash. Played sports as well. Great SAT scores. White female with no legacy, rejected from everything but her safeties. Applied to no Ivys by choice.

Don’t tell me her race didn’t play a role in this liberal academic environment

I worked in admissions and am currently an alum interviewer for my college. Your daughter sounds like an excellent student, so I can understand your disappointment, but there's a lot more to admissions than GPA and SAT scores. Before you play the race card, consider:

What were her recommendations like?
How did she do in interviews?
Did her essay add dimension to her profile as a strong student?
Did she hold any leadership positions -- you mention that she played sports, but was she a team captain?
Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?

First, there IS no disappointment on my or my husband's part. She got into a nice college and has continued to do great.. I didn't WANT a top school, don't care. But boy was she pressured by her peer group in this area! What shocked me was the absolute ridiculousness of the process.

Her teachers, frankly, were stunned. Look at the list you just put up above. Does that also apply towards minorities, or is it ok if they don't meet your (frankly) abusive criteria above.

What you are saying as a college recruiter/interviewer is that kids need to get almost perfect SAT scores, over-perform in academics, be team captains, win national competitions, and hold leadership positions? These kids are TEENAGERS for Christ sakes!

Do you NOT see how absolutely absurd this is? My GOD if this is your criteria, you just proved my point as to how abusive and unrealistic college admissions has become. You are a major part of the problem.

I feel you. My white daughter needed some FA for most colleges and she was ousted from most of the schools she applied. Top 10% in her top 5 private, top grades, ACT 34, won a state championship for a science event, team captain to two varsity for 2 years. Played one of those sports in club setting since she was 12. President of two major clubs and heavily involved. Worked PT at an ice cream shop. 13 year Girl Scout and volunteered 2 weeks a summer at a Girl Scout camp. She interned for 8 weeks and received a fabulous recommendation from that internship on top of 3 other recommendations. Her college counselor said all were great. She was literally at school, at a club meeting, playing a sport, volunteering, or working PT her entire 4 years of colleges. Any free time she was studying. She barely had time to socialize. She loved her school. She gave it her all.

She then watched so many minorities and full pay rich white kids below her academically at her school (some barely involved) get to PICK between top schools. Her and three other obvious white FA kids got squat. One is potentially our valedictorian. They are going to UMCP after being denied at all reached and targets. Accepted to UMCP and Penn State only, which were both safeties. We have one student who had to repeat a grade and is still on Calc AB as a senior, get into an Ivy. It is very hard for these kids to swallow. They are taught to work hard and treat everyone equally and then they watch as colleges do not treat them fairly. But it is a hard, but important lesson to learn. My nephew got bumped from many tech schools and watched as girls who had similar or lesser stats get in AND get merit aid. No different than white males having an easier time at SLAC's. You have to find out which colleges need you or move to North Dakota. Stats and EC's are not enough. Colleges play the number game.

Same happened at our private. URM's got in everywhere. Even the Asian students which so many people in public complain they don't get into their top schools because of being Asian. It is a massive hook, no denying that. If you look at the private school college sweatshirt pics, you can see the obvious too.

I suggest you google and learn by yourself or ask someone knowledgeable to learn from them. Being Asian is not a hook whther massive or the littlest one. In fact, Asians are discriminated against in admissions over all races, especially including White race. Be happy you are not Asian or else your kid will fare even worse in college admissions than being white. Asians have to study harder, get higher GPA, get higher standardized test results and should have more impressive extra curricular achievements than whites to get comparable college admissions outcomes. Don't be a dumb ass and spout nonsense just because your snowflake didn't get into his/her dream school.

The poster acknowledged that Asians usually aren’t considered minority in some colleges, but said it was different at her school. The counselors probably know which schools don’t discriminate against. All the tech schools don’t. Many top 25 SLAC’s don’t. But yes, ivy’s Absolutely are harsh on Asians. Not sure why.

Because you'll notice most Asians only apply to Ivy schools and "famous" schools like USC, NYU, Berkeley, UCLA, etc. while completely disregarding great options like SLACs.
It's a demand issue, if most of them only apply to these specific schools with the same few majors, they're obviously going to have huge competition.
The point of college is the exchange of ideas from people that come from different walks of life and diversity in multiple measures is how they do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who said Naviance was a definite predictor of where your kid would get in?

No one, however, it is misleading. So just a heads up

Duh!!
I never once checked Naviance.
DD is going to a top University with a gpa slightly less than 4 (her school didn’t allow many AP’s, her regular classes were rigorous).
DD did a great research project while in high school.
It’s not all about the stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Weighted GPAs are worthless

2. High unweighted GPAs are not going to get you anywhere in the top 25 without a very rigorous course load with 4 years of every academic subject including foreign language.

3. Any college with a 25% or less acceptance rate is a lottery for kids with nearly perfect stats

4. Naviance does not account for recruits, legacies, courseload, first gen status, full pay status, etc.

5. It’s a tool, not a crystal ball.

DD had straight As, even in APs and honors, won the Wellesley Book Award, was a STEM student, could pay full tuition anywhere, cash. Played sports as well. Great SAT scores. White female with no legacy, rejected from everything but her safeties. Applied to no Ivys by choice.

Don’t tell me her race didn’t play a role in this liberal academic environment

I worked in admissions and am currently an alum interviewer for my college. Your daughter sounds like an excellent student, so I can understand your disappointment, but there's a lot more to admissions than GPA and SAT scores. Before you play the race card, consider:

What were her recommendations like?
How did she do in interviews?
Did her essay add dimension to her profile as a strong student?
Did she hold any leadership positions -- you mention that she played sports, but was she a team captain?
Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?

First, there IS no disappointment on my or my husband's part. She got into a nice college and has continued to do great.. I didn't WANT a top school, don't care. But boy was she pressured by her peer group in this area! What shocked me was the absolute ridiculousness of the process.

Her teachers, frankly, were stunned. Look at the list you just put up above. Does that also apply towards minorities, or is it ok if they don't meet your (frankly) abusive criteria above.

What you are saying as a college recruiter/interviewer is that kids need to get almost perfect SAT scores, over-perform in academics, be team captains, win national competitions, and hold leadership positions? These kids are TEENAGERS for Christ sakes!

Do you NOT see how absolutely absurd this is? My GOD if this is your criteria, you just proved my point as to how abusive and unrealistic college admissions has become. You are a major part of the problem.

I feel you. My white daughter needed some FA for most colleges and she was ousted from most of the schools she applied. Top 10% in her top 5 private, top grades, ACT 34, won a state championship for a science event, team captain to two varsity for 2 years. Played one of those sports in club setting since she was 12. President of two major clubs and heavily involved. Worked PT at an ice cream shop. 13 year Girl Scout and volunteered 2 weeks a summer at a Girl Scout camp. She interned for 8 weeks and received a fabulous recommendation from that internship on top of 3 other recommendations. Her college counselor said all were great. She was literally at school, at a club meeting, playing a sport, volunteering, or working PT her entire 4 years of colleges. Any free time she was studying. She barely had time to socialize. She loved her school. She gave it her all.

She then watched so many minorities and full pay rich white kids below her academically at her school (some barely involved) get to PICK between top schools. Her and three other obvious white FA kids got squat. One is potentially our valedictorian. They are going to UMCP after being denied at all reached and targets. Accepted to UMCP and Penn State only, which were both safeties. We have one student who had to repeat a grade and is still on Calc AB as a senior, get into an Ivy. It is very hard for these kids to swallow. They are taught to work hard and treat everyone equally and then they watch as colleges do not treat them fairly. But it is a hard, but important lesson to learn. My nephew got bumped from many tech schools and watched as girls who had similar or lesser stats get in AND get merit aid. No different than white males having an easier time at SLAC's. You have to find out which colleges need you or move to North Dakota. Stats and EC's are not enough. Colleges play the number game.

Eh. No one should think that playing a sport or heading a club at school is going to get you anywhere. Was she recruited to play a sport in college? If not then that was just for fun - hope she enjoyed those years. And no one cares if she is heading a club, no.

There are tons of kids applying to Ivy’s with these kinds of stats and just not enough slots. She should have picked some different schools to apply to - sounds like some bad college advising.?

And your family sounds catty and self possessed - not great qualities. Why are you keeping track of a kid repeating a grade? And what’s wrong with being in Calc AB?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Weighted GPAs are worthless

2. High unweighted GPAs are not going to get you anywhere in the top 25 without a very rigorous course load with 4 years of every academic subject including foreign language.

3. Any college with a 25% or less acceptance rate is a lottery for kids with nearly perfect stats

4. Naviance does not account for recruits, legacies, courseload, first gen status, full pay status, etc.

5. It’s a tool, not a crystal ball.

DD had straight As, even in APs and honors, won the Wellesley Book Award, was a STEM student, could pay full tuition anywhere, cash. Played sports as well. Great SAT scores. White female with no legacy, rejected from everything but her safeties. Applied to no Ivys by choice.

Don’t tell me her race didn’t play a role in this liberal academic environment

I worked in admissions and am currently an alum interviewer for my college. Your daughter sounds like an excellent student, so I can understand your disappointment, but there's a lot more to admissions than GPA and SAT scores. Before you play the race card, consider:

What were her recommendations like?
How did she do in interviews?
Did her essay add dimension to her profile as a strong student?
Did she hold any leadership positions -- you mention that she played sports, but was she a team captain?
Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?

First, there IS no disappointment on my or my husband's part. She got into a nice college and has continued to do great.. I didn't WANT a top school, don't care. But boy was she pressured by her peer group in this area! What shocked me was the absolute ridiculousness of the process.

Her teachers, frankly, were stunned. Look at the list you just put up above. Does that also apply towards minorities, or is it ok if they don't meet your (frankly) abusive criteria above.

What you are saying as a college recruiter/interviewer is that kids need to get almost perfect SAT scores, over-perform in academics, be team captains, win national competitions, and hold leadership positions? These kids are TEENAGERS for Christ sakes!

Do you NOT see how absolutely absurd this is? My GOD if this is your criteria, you just proved my point as to how abusive and unrealistic college admissions has become. You are a major part of the problem.

I feel you. My white daughter needed some FA for most colleges and she was ousted from most of the schools she applied. Top 10% in her top 5 private, top grades, ACT 34, won a state championship for a science event, team captain to two varsity for 2 years. Played one of those sports in club setting since she was 12. President of two major clubs and heavily involved. Worked PT at an ice cream shop. 13 year Girl Scout and volunteered 2 weeks a summer at a Girl Scout camp. She interned for 8 weeks and received a fabulous recommendation from that internship on top of 3 other recommendations. Her college counselor said all were great. She was literally at school, at a club meeting, playing a sport, volunteering, or working PT her entire 4 years of colleges. Any free time she was studying. She barely had time to socialize. She loved her school. She gave it her all.

She then watched so many minorities and full pay rich white kids below her academically at her school (some barely involved) get to PICK between top schools. Her and three other obvious white FA kids got squat. One is potentially our valedictorian. They are going to UMCP after being denied at all reached and targets. Accepted to UMCP and Penn State only, which were both safeties. We have one student who had to repeat a grade and is still on Calc AB as a senior, get into an Ivy. It is very hard for these kids to swallow. They are taught to work hard and treat everyone equally and then they watch as colleges do not treat them fairly. But it is a hard, but important lesson to learn. My nephew got bumped from many tech schools and watched as girls who had similar or lesser stats get in AND get merit aid. No different than white males having an easier time at SLAC's. You have to find out which colleges need you or move to North Dakota. Stats and EC's are not enough. Colleges play the number game.

Eh. No one should think that playing a sport or heading a club at school is going to get you anywhere. Was she recruited to play a sport in college? If not then that was just for fun - hope she enjoyed those years. And no one cares if she is heading a club, no.

There are tons of kids applying to Ivy’s with these kinds of stats and just not enough slots. She should have picked some different schools to apply to - sounds like some bad college advising.?

And your family sounds catty and self possessed - not great qualities. Why are you keeping track of a kid repeating a grade? And what’s wrong with being in Calc AB?

Actually Ivy’s aren’t really looking for kids like yours, they are typically looking for some different qualities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Weighted GPAs are worthless

2. High unweighted GPAs are not going to get you anywhere in the top 25 without a very rigorous course load with 4 years of every academic subject including foreign language.

3. Any college with a 25% or less acceptance rate is a lottery for kids with nearly perfect stats

4. Naviance does not account for recruits, legacies, courseload, first gen status, full pay status, etc.

5. It’s a tool, not a crystal ball.

DD had straight As, even in APs and honors, won the Wellesley Book Award, was a STEM student, could pay full tuition anywhere, cash. Played sports as well. Great SAT scores. White female with no legacy, rejected from everything but her safeties. Applied to no Ivys by choice.

Don’t tell me her race didn’t play a role in this liberal academic environment

I worked in admissions and am currently an alum interviewer for my college. Your daughter sounds like an excellent student, so I can understand your disappointment, but there's a lot more to admissions than GPA and SAT scores. Before you play the race card, consider:

What were her recommendations like?
How did she do in interviews?
Did her essay add dimension to her profile as a strong student?
Did she hold any leadership positions -- you mention that she played sports, but was she a team captain?
Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?

First, there IS no disappointment on my or my husband's part. She got into a nice college and has continued to do great.. I didn't WANT a top school, don't care. But boy was she pressured by her peer group in this area! What shocked me was the absolute ridiculousness of the process.

Her teachers, frankly, were stunned. Look at the list you just put up above. Does that also apply towards minorities, or is it ok if they don't meet your (frankly) abusive criteria above.

What you are saying as a college recruiter/interviewer is that kids need to get almost perfect SAT scores, over-perform in academics, be team captains, win national competitions, and hold leadership positions? These kids are TEENAGERS for Christ sakes!

Do you NOT see how absolutely absurd this is? My GOD if this is your criteria, you just proved my point as to how abusive and unrealistic college admissions has become. You are a major part of the problem.

I feel you. My white daughter needed some FA for most colleges and she was ousted from most of the schools she applied. Top 10% in her top 5 private, top grades, ACT 34, won a state championship for a science event, team captain to two varsity for 2 years. Played one of those sports in club setting since she was 12. President of two major clubs and heavily involved. Worked PT at an ice cream shop. 13 year Girl Scout and volunteered 2 weeks a summer at a Girl Scout camp. She interned for 8 weeks and received a fabulous recommendation from that internship on top of 3 other recommendations. Her college counselor said all were great. She was literally at school, at a club meeting, playing a sport, volunteering, or working PT her entire 4 years of colleges. Any free time she was studying. She barely had time to socialize. She loved her school. She gave it her all.

She then watched so many minorities and full pay rich white kids below her academically at her school (some barely involved) get to PICK between top schools. Her and three other obvious white FA kids got squat. One is potentially our valedictorian. They are going to UMCP after being denied at all reached and targets. Accepted to UMCP and Penn State only, which were both safeties. We have one student who had to repeat a grade and is still on Calc AB as a senior, get into an Ivy. It is very hard for these kids to swallow. They are taught to work hard and treat everyone equally and then they watch as colleges do not treat them fairly. But it is a hard, but important lesson to learn. My nephew got bumped from many tech schools and watched as girls who had similar or lesser stats get in AND get merit aid. No different than white males having an easier time at SLAC's. You have to find out which colleges need you or move to North Dakota. Stats and EC's are not enough. Colleges play the number game.

If your kid's grammar is as bad as yours her essays might have done her in.

Check yourself PP. I see two in your simple sentence.

But she's not applying to College. PP’s point was a good one. Not just the grammar but the arrogance might have done her in.

[Anonymous]

Naviance is a tool, not a rule book. That should have been explained when you got access.

It's interesting to see what the admissions dean at UVA thinks.

http://uvaapplication.blogspot.com/2017/01/uva-admissions-holistic-review-and-gpa.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what that interviewer was saying is that not all aspects of the application are visible to you. Race is, so you latch onto that. Easier than accepting that perhaps, when MULTIPLE factors are taken into account (including the mix of kids they want to constitute that year’s incoming class)...your DD was not in the 94th percentile. Maybe she is in the 90th, of the whole United States, which is great...but someone beat her out. It’s okay. Not abusive.

I don’t think anyone is latching onto race, but you can’t deny that do take it into consideration, truly do. The ones that do - if I was a URM, I would apply in a heartbeat. That said, over 3/4 of Americans, including URM’s do not want race to be a reason to receive admission

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2019/03/04/survey-finds-most-americans-say-colleges-shouldnt-consider-race

Harvard’s freshman class is still mostly white - it just didn’t accept your white mix.

Fifty-eight percent of respondents identify as white, compared to 62 percent of respondents to The Crimson’s 2014 survey of the Class of 2018. About 30 percent of respondents identify as Asian or South Asian; just more than 12 percent as Hispanic or Latino; 11 percent as black or African American; 1 percent as American Indian or Alaskan Native; and 1 percent as Pacific Islander.


https://features.thecrimson.com/2015/freshman-survey/makeup/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait a second, OP’s child had close to 1600 SAT and close to 4.0 unweighted gpa (and clearly a rigorous course load in weighted gpa was close to 5.0) and no one thinks it is unusual that he was rejected from UIUC?? Even with no extracurriculars he should have been a lock, come on. Frankly I am surprised he was not admitted to Carnegie Melon either, unless he applied to CS. I am sorry OP, that must be very disappointing to your son. I hope that he is happy with his admitted choice and I am sure that he will do great wherever he lands.

1520 sat, nearly 3.9 unweighted, lots of ecs, captain on sports team who were state champs, Eagle Scout - Carnegie Melon isn't even a possibility. Waitlisted @ Case Western.

It really sucks. Cmu accepted too many girls this year from what I have heard. Asian males especially had a hard time getting into top cs programs. Not sure what is expected if you are an Asian male student with rigorous courses, lots of AP’s , near perfect sat and gp and excellent ec’s. Girls and urms with way lower criteria have been admitted to top schools