LAST APS meeting on new high school and countywide rezoning (4/4, 7 pm Yorktown)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:traffic is already particularly difficult at Kenmore with 900 non-driving students. if you built a 2,500 seat HS there and built a 1K seat MS at VHC, on top of 600+ at Campbell ES, and 600+ at Carling Spring ES, you're talking about a lot of students all within half a mile stretch on Carlin Spring rd. you're going nowhere if you discount this concern. i'm not kidding.

A few thoughts. First, the County would definitely have to do some road improvements and widening there. Keep in mind, you have not dissimilar situation in north Arlington with Williamsburg and Discovery sharing a campus, and Yorktown just a few blocks away.

This is a congested area, no two ways about it.

To the PP who said choice schools are the answer, how would you ensure that? One option is to allocate seats at choice schools based on the size of the neighborhood elementary schools. Do the same for things like HB. More kids from McKinley or Oakridge get spots at HB (or some theoretical other choice school at ES, MS, or HS level) than kids at Discovery or Jamestown. Otherwise, you aren't getting kids off the neighborhood campuses and easing the crowding. Also, you then need to place those choice schools in parts of the county that aren't as heavily burdened by neighborhood capacity.

that's BS. they are NOT not dissimilar. this is what i'm talking about, you're going nowhere if you discount this concern.

I'm not discounting it. It is a concern. However, there are very very few places in the county where a fourth HS could be built in a way that meaningfully alleviates the capacity problems. The traffic is a huge issue, I totally agree. But I don't think it should be a deal-breaker since the county-wide problem with seats is a crisis in the making.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:traffic is already particularly difficult at Kenmore with 900 non-driving students. if you built a 2,500 seat HS there and built a 1K seat MS at VHC, on top of 600+ at Campbell ES, and 600+ at Carling Spring ES, you're talking about a lot of students all within half a mile stretch on Carlin Spring rd. you're going nowhere if you discount this concern. i'm not kidding.

Putting 1300 students at the Ed Center is no better. Three of the four roads that surround that location are only one lane in each direction, residential streets; Quincy, which is one of them, is a main thoroughfare from the most northern parts of the county to the Ballston-Rosslyn corridor with a speed limit of only 25 miles per hour because it is a residential street; there already is a high school at that location with all of its drivers; an elementary school with all of its traffic is a block away; and the county is seriously considering using the land across the street from the Ed Center (aka the Buck property) for bus storage.

There is no place under consideration in this county where adding 1300 seats is not going to be a traffic issue and the people who live near Carlin Springs need to stop thinking their traffic issues are any more unique than those in the rest of the county where multiple schools are located very close to each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:traffic is already particularly difficult at Kenmore with 900 non-driving students. if you built a 2,500 seat HS there and built a 1K seat MS at VHC, on top of 600+ at Campbell ES, and 600+ at Carling Spring ES, you're talking about a lot of students all within half a mile stretch on Carlin Spring rd. you're going nowhere if you discount this concern. i'm not kidding.

Putting 1300 students at the Ed Center is no better. Three of the four roads that surround that location are only one lane in each direction, residential streets; Quincy, which is one of them, is a main thoroughfare from the most northern parts of the county to the Ballston-Rosslyn corridor with a speed limit of only 25 miles per hour because it is a residential street; there already is a high school at that location with all of its drivers; an elementary school with all of its traffic is a block away; and the county is seriously considering using the land across the street from the Ed Center (aka the Buck property) for bus storage.

There is no place under consideration in this county where adding 1300 seats is not going to be a traffic issue and the people who live near Carlin Springs need to stop thinking their traffic issues are any more unique than those in the rest of the county where multiple schools are located very close to each other.

give me a break. it's YOU who needs to stop thinking the world revolves around WL.

let me say this again, you're going nowhere if you discount this concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There is no place under consideration in this county where adding 1300 seats is not going to be a traffic issue and the people who live near Carlin Springs need to stop thinking their traffic issues are any more unique than those in the rest of the county where multiple schools are located very close to each other.

give me a break. it's YOU who needs to stop thinking the world revolves around WL.

let me say this again, you're going nowhere if you discount this concern.

How is that a statement that means the world revolves around W-L?

Traffic is bad everywhere. The upside of putting a HS at Kenmore is that there would be a steady stream of traffic (first the Kenmore middle schoolers, then the high schoolers, then the elementary students), rather than a big blast of 4000 students within half an hour.

Side question: Does APS have to let students drive to school? Do they have to show need? I know kids who drive to school because they don't WANNA take the bus. I'm thinking there's a way to cut down on traffic . . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There is no place under consideration in this county where adding 1300 seats is not going to be a traffic issue and the people who live near Carlin Springs need to stop thinking their traffic issues are any more unique than those in the rest of the county where multiple schools are located very close to each other.

give me a break. it's YOU who needs to stop thinking the world revolves around WL.

let me say this again, you're going nowhere if you discount this concern.

How is that a statement that means the world revolves around W-L?

Traffic is bad everywhere. The upside of putting a HS at Kenmore is that there would be a steady stream of traffic (first the Kenmore middle schoolers, then the high schoolers, then the elementary students), rather than a big blast of 4000 students within half an hour.

Side question: Does APS have to let students drive to school? Do they have to show need? I know kids who drive to school because they don't WANNA take the bus. I'm thinking there's a way to cut down on traffic . . . .

We live off of Carlin Springs and a short drive from Kenmore. There is heavy traffic on Carlin Springs from 7:30 am till at least 6:30 or 7:00 at night on weekdays as it is a huge secondary route connecting Baileys Crossroads up to Ballston, not to mention the traffic on and off of Route 50 right at the intersection by Kenmore. It's already not very safe for kids to cross Carlin Springa to get to middle school (i.e. they are lucky to have and really NEED their current crossing guards) and incredibly unsafe to cross at the intersection (no stop light) by Harrison to get from Arlington Forest side over to the Bluemont side to access the bike path, pool, etc.

Not saying traffic isn't bad elsewhere/everywhere, but it really is a big problem already and not one to dust under the rug.

I would love to have a high school there and would gladly have my kids attend in lieu of W-L but only if it was a comprehensive high school and not some kind of special program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:traffic is already particularly difficult at Kenmore with 900 non-driving students. if you built a 2,500 seat HS there and built a 1K seat MS at VHC, on top of 600+ at Campbell ES, and 600+ at Carling Spring ES, you're talking about a lot of students all within half a mile stretch on Carlin Spring rd. you're going nowhere if you discount this concern. i'm not kidding.

Putting 1300 students at the Ed Center is no better. Three of the four roads that surround that location are only one lane in each direction, residential streets; Quincy, which is one of them, is a main thoroughfare from the most northern parts of the county to the Ballston-Rosslyn corridor with a speed limit of only 25 miles per hour because it is a residential street; there already is a high school at that location with all of its drivers; an elementary school with all of its traffic is a block away; and the county is seriously considering using the land across the street from the Ed Center (aka the Buck property) for bus storage.

There is no place under consideration in this county where adding 1300 seats is not going to be a traffic issue and the people who live near Carlin Springs need to stop thinking their traffic issues are any more unique than those in the rest of the county where multiple schools are located very close to each other.

give me a break. it's YOU who needs to stop thinking the world revolves around WL.

let me say this again, you're going nowhere if you discount this concern.

I'm the PPand I don't think the world revolves around WL. I don't even have kids who will attend it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There is no place under consideration in this county where adding 1300 seats is not going to be a traffic issue and the people who live near Carlin Springs need to stop thinking their traffic issues are any more unique than those in the rest of the county where multiple schools are located very close to each other.

give me a break. it's YOU who needs to stop thinking the world revolves around WL.

let me say this again, you're going nowhere if you discount this concern.

How is that a statement that means the world revolves around W-L?

Traffic is bad everywhere. The upside of putting a HS at Kenmore is that there would be a steady stream of traffic (first the Kenmore middle schoolers, then the high schoolers, then the elementary students), rather than a big blast of 4000 students within half an hour.

Side question: Does APS have to let students drive to school? Do they have to show need? I know kids who drive to school because they don't WANNA take the bus. I'm thinking there's a way to cut down on traffic . . . .

We live off of Carlin Springs and a short drive from Kenmore. There is heavy traffic on Carlin Springs from 7:30 am till at least 6:30 or 7:00 at night on weekdays as it is a huge secondary route connecting Baileys Crossroads up to Ballston, not to mention the traffic on and off of Route 50 right at the intersection by Kenmore. It's already not very safe for kids to cross Carlin Springa to get to middle school (i.e. they are lucky to have and really NEED their current crossing guards) and incredibly unsafe to cross at the intersection (no stop light) by Harrison to get from Arlington Forest side over to the Bluemont side to access the bike path, pool, etc.

Not saying traffic isn't bad elsewhere/everywhere, but it really is a big problem already and not one to dust under the rug.

I would love to have a high school there and would gladly have my kids attend in lieu of W-L but only if it was a comprehensive high school and not some kind of special program.

Thank you for the context! And for being open to a school. A fourth comprehensive high school there would be the only sane choice. No more Choice schools. If a neighborhood takes on the burden of a school, they should benefit by having their kids be able to attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you for the context! And for being open to a school. A fourth comprehensive high school there would be the only sane choice. No more Choice schools. If a neighborhood takes on the burden of a school, they should benefit by having their kids be able to attend.

This is so obvious! I agree 100%!

[Anonymous]

Side question: Does APS have to let students drive to school? Do they have to show need? I know kids who drive to school because they don't WANNA take the bus. I'm thinking there's a way to cut down on traffic . . .

This is a great idea!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you for the context! And for being open to a school. A fourth comprehensive high school there would be the only sane choice. No more Choice schools. If a neighborhood takes on the burden of a school, they should benefit by having their kids be able to attend.

This is so obvious! I agree 100%!

Except there is no way, regardless of site chosen, that this school will be a neighborhood school NOW. Simply because the bond money will only go so far, and it's inherently unfair to create a zoned school that will not have equivalent amenities. At least temporarily, a high school at Kenmore would have to be an "option" because it won't have all the amenities. However, it is the only site large enough to become a full comprehensive HS at a future point, when additional money and land is available to move the MS or even the ES school to another nearby property.

I understand the neighborhood's objection, but it's the same objection wherever a school is proposed. Clearly they'd need to do a number of things to make this area more walker friendly and to mitigate traffic, but that should be a positive thing for surrounding areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you for the context! And for being open to a school. A fourth comprehensive high school there would be the only sane choice. No more Choice schools. If a neighborhood takes on the burden of a school, they should benefit by having their kids be able to attend.

This is so obvious! I agree 100%!

Except there is no way, regardless of site chosen, that this school will be a neighborhood school NOW. Simply because the bond money will only go so far, and it's inherently unfair to create a zoned school that will not have equivalent amenities. At least temporarily, a high school at Kenmore would have to be an "option" because it won't have all the amenities. However, it is the only site large enough to become a full comprehensive HS at a future point, when additional money and land is available to move the MS or even the ES school to another nearby property.

I understand the neighborhood's objection, but it's the same objection wherever a school is proposed. Clearly they'd need to do a number of things to make this area more walker friendly and to mitigate traffic, but that should be a positive thing for surrounding areas.

Exactly what choice/option is going to lure people away from Yorktown or W-L, and what "amenities" would Kenmore HS be unable to offer if it became a neighborhood high school? It might have to be zoned for a smaller athletic league and play schools in Loudon. but so what?

I mean, W-L is much bigger than Yorktown now Does that mean Yorktown doesn't have "equivalent amenities" to W-L and has to become a choice school?

[Anonymous]

The School Board has proposed it as a neighborhood school. There is a $150 million budget. Is that not enough to allow for construction of a pool, etc.?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The School Board has proposed it as a neighborhood school. There is a $150 million budget. Is that not enough to allow for construction of a pool, etc.?

Falls Church City proposed a 1500 seat $117M brand new high school option that also included administrative office space. We can definitely do more than just 1300 seats with $147M.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The School Board has proposed it as a neighborhood school. There is a $150 million budget. Is that not enough to allow for construction of a pool, etc.?

Apparently not. Also, you can't build a full HS while the other two schools are still on the site. They have to be moved first or there isn't space for all the fields. That's my understanding.

[Anonymous]

Are people arguing that something isn't a comprehensive HS if there's no pool, or are there other things they want a HS to have?