Common Core question for proponents

[Anonymous]

Phonics and sight words will only get you through the first few reading levels. Once you get past them, comprehension comes in along with vocabulary. Much of what we read involves background knowledge and without a teacher guiding students through it, students are left floundering. You cannot always blame the previous years' teachers. I work at a Title One school with an awesome faculty but even we cannot make up for what kids bring (or don't bring) to school. Kids entering kindergarten not knowing how to hold a book properly isn't uncommon. Kids not able to recognize their own name in print when looking at 3 name cards on a desk. Kids who don't know how to count to 10. I could go on. These are native English speakers BTW. I have parents come in and scream at me in front of their kids b/c I assign homework. I should know that school is where the work should be done, not home!

[Anonymous]

Phonics and sight words will only get you through the first few reading levels. Once you get past them, comprehension comes in along with vocabulary. Much of what we read involves background knowledge and without a teacher guiding students through it, students are left floundering. You cannot always blame the previous years' teachers. I work at a Title One school with an awesome faculty but even we cannot make up for what kids bring (or don't bring) to school. Kids entering kindergarten not knowing how to hold a book properly isn't uncommon. Kids not able to recognize their own name in print when looking at 3 name cards on a desk. Kids who don't know how to count to 10. I could go on. These are native English speakers BTW. I have parents come in and scream at me in front of their kids b/c I assign homework. I should know that school is where the work should be done, not home!

Thank you for your post. The landscape in our schools is very complicated and some people just can't seem to understand that. Maybe it's just easier for them to simplify what is going on in order to make it seem like simple solutions, like a set of standards, will work.

I have no problem with standards and curriculum. My problem has been with the heavy handed way that they have pushed them (through "Race to the Top" and the NCLB waiver system mostly). I am 100% on board with your comment about your awesome faculty. I have taught in many schools and know that the vast, vast majority of teachers are in the profession for the right reasons. Many of these teachers wonder why they are not treated as trusted professionals now.

I believe that any complete overhaul or "new" standards should be out there for a while and teachers should be free to pilot them and give feedback (way before tests are put in based on those standards). The rush to put in these new standards and especially the tests associated with them is hard to understand. Why does it have to happen so quickly? Time to make them better or figure out what they are about would really help. Teachers have to be an integral part of the process or it just won't be credible for the long run. There haven't been nearly enough people involved in a meaningful way (that means classroom experience with all of this).

[Anonymous]

Phonics and sight words will only get you through the first few reading levels. Once you get past them, comprehension comes in along with vocabulary. Much of what we read involves background knowledge and without a teacher guiding students through it, students are left floundering. You cannot always blame the previous years' teachers. I work at a Title One school with an awesome faculty but even we cannot make up for what kids bring (or don't bring) to school. Kids entering kindergarten not knowing how to hold a book properly isn't uncommon. Kids not able to recognize their own name in print when looking at 3 name cards on a desk. Kids who don't know how to count to 10. I could go on. These are native English speakers BTW. I have parents come in and scream at me in front of their kids b/c I assign homework. I should know that school is where the work should be done, not home!

Well said. Sad, I taught in such a school forty years ago. Sounds like it has become worse--the parents didn't yell at us then, they just ignored it.

[Anonymous]

I have parents come in and scream at me in front of their kids b/c I assign homework. I should know that school is where the work should be done, not home!

Yeah, CC is going to solve that. I don't think I could stay in teaching if I got that treatment. And now you have to worry about standardized test scores being part of your evaluation? Wow. Love from all directions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This would be funny if you weren't so clueless. FWIW, elementary teachers do teach phonics and have been for years. The problem starts long before first grade.

+10000

It's scary to think that this person might work for the DOE!

Yes, they teach phonics but nowhere near as robustly as they used to, and instead rely a lot more on sight words. You might want to take a minute at reading comprehension before making yourself look foolish. Sight words only help kids learn about a thousand words, but that ends with the curriculum - whereas phonics gives them a toolbox that can better help them decode, acquire and build new vocabulary as a lifelong skill. The phonics curriculum in school today is not what it used to be a few decades ago, which is why so many more older kids are struggling with reading and language skills. They teach it, but don't spend as much time on it or reinforce it as they did 30 years ago, despite it being a vital and needed lifelong skill. Not to mention, teaching of grammar has become weaker, and many teachers don't even mark incorrect spelling anymore - because many of the younger teachers do not themselves have the language skills that teachers did a few decades ago. Maybe you are one of the young ones, that you don't know this.

And no, sorry to deflate your delusions, but "this person" does not work for DOE - but nonetheless does know a lot more about what is and isn't going on in schools than you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I have parents come in and scream at me in front of their kids b/c I assign homework. I should know that school is where the work should be done, not home!

Yeah, CC is going to solve that. I don't think I could stay in teaching if I got that treatment. And now you have to worry about standardized test scores being part of your evaluation? Wow. Love from all directions.

There have always been idiot parents. So what are you doing, in response - not giving out homework because they yell at you? Ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Yes, they teach phonics but nowhere near as robustly as they used to, and instead rely a lot more on sight words. You might want to take a minute at reading comprehension before making yourself look foolish. Sight words only help kids learn about a thousand words, but that ends with the curriculum - whereas phonics gives them a toolbox that can better help them decode, acquire and build new vocabulary as a lifelong skill. The phonics curriculum in school today is not what it used to be a few decades ago, which is why so many more older kids are struggling with reading and language skills. They teach it, but don't spend as much time on it or reinforce it as they did 30 years ago, despite it being a vital and needed lifelong skill. Not to mention, teaching of grammar has become weaker, and many teachers don't even mark incorrect spelling anymore - because many of the younger teachers do not themselves have the language skills that teachers did a few decades ago. Maybe you are one of the young ones, that you don't know this.

Question: Does CC explain how to do the above? Will it provide more robust materials or will it teach the teachers how to teach like they did 30 years ago? I think it's doubtful since they are only a set of standards (what the child is supposed to be able to do and not a manual for teaching).

[Anonymous]

Yes, they teach phonics but nowhere near as robustly as they used to, and instead rely a lot more on sight words. You might want to take a minute at reading comprehension before making yourself look foolish. Sight words only help kids learn about a thousand words, but that ends with the curriculum - whereas phonics gives them a toolbox that can better help them decode, acquire and build new vocabulary as a lifelong skill. The phonics curriculum in school today is not what it used to be a few decades ago, which is why so many more older kids are struggling with reading and language skills. They teach it, but don't spend as much time on it or reinforce it as they did 30 years ago, despite it being a vital and needed lifelong skill. Not to mention, teaching of grammar has become weaker, and many teachers don't even mark incorrect spelling anymore - because many of the younger teachers do not themselves have the language skills that teachers did a few decades ago. Maybe you are one of the young ones, that you don't know this.



Question: Does CC explain how to do the above? Will it provide more robust materials or will it teach the teachers how to teach like they did 30 years ago? I think it's doubtful since they are only a set of standards (what the child is supposed to be able to do and not a manual for teaching).

PP is more clueless than I thought. signed: one who has been involved in primary education for more than forty years. I have seen many reading programs come and go--and phonics has always been a part of them.

[Anonymous]

There have always been idiot parents. So what are you doing, in response

So what is the DOE doing in order to help teachers know how to respond?

[Anonymous]

I never wrote that I don't assign homework because parents yell and complain about it. We are required by our admin to assign homework so we assign it. I stay in teaching because if I quit, I would most likely be unemployed for a long time. It isn't easy to transition out of the classroom into a totally unrelated occupation. And the PP is correct that now our students' test scores are part of our annual raise. If people thought we were teaching to the test before, they ain't seen nothin' yet!

[Anonymous]

Question: Does CC explain how to do the above? Will it provide more robust materials or will it teach the teachers how to teach like they did 30 years ago? I think it's doubtful since they are only a set of standards (what the child is supposed to be able to do and not a manual for teaching).

It doesn't really matter. Poster is going on the premise that lack of phonics is the problem. It is not the problem. Common Core will not solve the problem. It achieves nothing but idiocy.

[Anonymous]

Question: Does CC explain how to do the above? Will it provide more robust materials or will it teach the teachers how to teach like they did 30 years ago? I think it's doubtful since they are only a set of standards (what the child is supposed to be able to do and not a manual for teaching).



PP is more clueless than I thought. signed: one who has been involved in primary education for more than forty years. I have seen many reading programs come and go--and phonics has always been a part of them.

You didn't answer the questions. You attacked the poster and then basically said, "I know because I know." That doesn't explain anything.

[Anonymous]

signed: one who has been involved in primary education for more than forty years. I have seen many reading programs come and go--and phonics has always been a part of them.

Let me guess again . . . you either work for a publisher, are a university professor, or work as a "specialist" in central office (and have for years). You haven't been in a classroom in years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, they teach phonics but nowhere near as robustly as they used to, and instead rely a lot more on sight words. You might want to take a minute at reading comprehension before making yourself look foolish. Sight words only help kids learn about a thousand words, but that ends with the curriculum - whereas phonics gives them a toolbox that can better help them decode, acquire and build new vocabulary as a lifelong skill. The phonics curriculum in school today is not what it used to be a few decades ago, which is why so many more older kids are struggling with reading and language skills. They teach it, but don't spend as much time on it or reinforce it as they did 30 years ago, despite it being a vital and needed lifelong skill. Not to mention, teaching of grammar has become weaker, and many teachers don't even mark incorrect spelling anymore - because many of the younger teachers do not themselves have the language skills that teachers did a few decades ago. Maybe you are one of the young ones, that you don't know this.

Question: Does CC explain how to do the above? Will it provide more robust materials or will it teach the teachers how to teach like they did 30 years ago? I think it's doubtful since they are only a set of standards (what the child is supposed to be able to do and not a manual for teaching).

Of course CC does not "provide materials" or "teach the teachers" - it is a STANDARD. As always it's still up to districts and teachers to select appropriate materials and to develop curriculum that meets the standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Question: Does CC explain how to do the above? Will it provide more robust materials or will it teach the teachers how to teach like they did 30 years ago? I think it's doubtful since they are only a set of standards (what the child is supposed to be able to do and not a manual for teaching).

It doesn't really matter. Poster is going on the premise that lack of phonics is the problem. It is not the problem. Common Core will not solve the problem. It achieves nothing but idiocy.

That was me - and for the second time now, please pay more attention, as your reading comprehension is lacking. I did NOT say phonics was not being taught, I said it was not being taught robustly enough, and that a lot of the traditional phonics emphasis has given way to sight words, which I think is a mistake. I also mentioned poor grammar teaching and several other things, but even that's just one of MANY problems in the curriculum these days - I also disagree pretty strongly with letting students use calculators without having a strong knowledge of doing multiplication and division by hand. On the other hand, we have the PP who says the problems start before 1st grade - which is a separate issue from the very real problems in the educational system, and even if there are problems in some homes, that is not a viable reason for giving the educational system a pass, nor is it a viable reason for watering down the entire educational system to cater to the lowest common denominator.