Can we stop referring to households making $200 or 300K a year as "middle class"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read all 14 pages. (Isn't that pathetic?) Majority of DCUM has lost touch with reality even in DC. Take a drive down Benning Rd NE or Minnesota Ave (if you know where they are) both in DC. Then come back and tell us that your 200K income is middle class in Washington DC.

+1

Right... because there are poor people in the area, that means your middle class life style isn't middle class.

What kind of stupid logic is that?

And why would you +1 that garbage?

As some PPs have stated, you may be living a middle class life style but your income is not middle class.

I don't get it. What is "middle class" if not a lifestyle? If you live in a modest home and send your kids to public school and drive a Hyundai and save for retirement and college and don't expect to ever live off your "wealth," what are you? Housing, child care, and student loans eat up an enormous amount of money. I think it's BS to say that someone living in a 4,000 sq. ft new house on two acres outside of Houston and driving two new European cars on a $150K salary is 'middle class' but someone living in a 1,500 sq ft 60-year-old Cape on 1/5 acre in south Arlington and driving two Hondas on $300K is 'upper class.'

why do you care so much how people define you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read all 14 pages. (Isn't that pathetic?) Majority of DCUM has lost touch with reality even in DC. Take a drive down Benning Rd NE or Minnesota Ave (if you know where they are) both in DC. Then come back and tell us that your 200K income is middle class in Washington DC.

+1

Right... because there are poor people in the area, that means your middle class life style isn't middle class.

What kind of stupid logic is that?

And why would you +1 that garbage?

As some PPs have stated, you may be living a middle class life style but your income is not middle class.

I don't get it. What is "middle class" if not a lifestyle? If you live in a modest home and send your kids to public school and drive a Hyundai and save for retirement and college and don't expect to ever live off your "wealth," what are you? Housing, child care, and student loans eat up an enormous amount of money. I think it's BS to say that someone living in a 4,000 sq. ft new house on two acres outside of Houston and driving two new European cars on a $150K salary is 'middle class' but someone living in a 1,500 sq ft 60-year-old Cape on 1/5 acre in south Arlington and driving two Hondas on $300K is 'upper class.'

We're doing this on 90k. What are you doing wrong?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read all 14 pages. (Isn't that pathetic?) Majority of DCUM has lost touch with reality even in DC. Take a drive down Benning Rd NE or Minnesota Ave (if you know where they are) both in DC. Then come back and tell us that your 200K income is middle class in Washington DC.

+1

Right... because there are poor people in the area, that means your middle class life style isn't middle class.

What kind of stupid logic is that?

And why would you +1 that garbage?

As some PPs have stated, you may be living a middle class life style but your income is not middle class.

I don't get it. What is "middle class" if not a lifestyle? If you live in a modest home and send your kids to public school and drive a Hyundai and save for retirement and college and don't expect to ever live off your "wealth," what are you? Housing, child care, and student loans eat up an enormous amount of money. I think it's BS to say that someone living in a 4,000 sq. ft new house on two acres outside of Houston and driving two new European cars on a $150K salary is 'middle class' but someone living in a 1,500 sq ft 60-year-old Cape on 1/5 acre in south Arlington and driving two Hondas on $300K is 'upper class.'

We're doing this on 90k. What are you doing wrong?

So your mortgage is $4000 with a takehome of $7500 before taxes? How do you do that on $90k?

[Anonymous]

We make just over 200k and have for maybe 2-3 years. Our nanny has a far better claim to a middle class existence than we do. The simple fact that we can live in a nice home, nice area, and provide someone else's livelihood while still maxing retirement (46k) and putting money (16k) Toward college savings should disqualify us from the middle class. We will probably have around 4-5M by 60-65. In no way do I consider that a reasonable outcome for "middle class".

I was a free lunch kid at times and have lived in several different places. This area is just full of out of touch, entitled people with no perspective or empathy.

Every single one of these threads just get ridiculous - "after I spend lots of money and save lots of money, I don't have anything left". Duh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read all 14 pages. (Isn't that pathetic?) Majority of DCUM has lost touch with reality even in DC. Take a drive down Benning Rd NE or Minnesota Ave (if you know where they are) both in DC. Then come back and tell us that your 200K income is middle class in Washington DC.

+1

Right... because there are poor people in the area, that means your middle class life style isn't middle class.

What kind of stupid logic is that?

And why would you +1 that garbage?

As some PPs have stated, you may be living a middle class life style but your income is not middle class.

I don't get it. What is "middle class" if not a lifestyle? If you live in a modest home and send your kids to public school and drive a Hyundai and save for retirement and college and don't expect to ever live off your "wealth," what are you? Housing, child care, and student loans eat up an enormous amount of money. I think it's BS to say that someone living in a 4,000 sq. ft new house on two acres outside of Houston and driving two new European cars on a $150K salary is 'middle class' but someone living in a 1,500 sq ft 60-year-old Cape on 1/5 acre in south Arlington and driving two Hondas on $300K is 'upper class.'

We're doing this on 90k. What are you doing wrong?

So your mortgage is $4000 with a takehome of $7500 before taxes? How do you do that on $90k?

Different PP here. The point is that while you live a middle class lifestyle that is only because you have chosen to commit a large part of your income to luxuries. You can do the same in a house with a $2000 mortgage, but you choose to live in an area where the housing prices are higher, probably because of a strong public school system. That is a luxury, one that the true middle class cannot afford. You chose more expensive child care because you had the means to do so, that's a luxury. Most true middle class cannot afford an expensive nanny or daycare center. If they don't have extended family to watch their children, they choose a less expensive in-home daycare or perhaps a non-resident nanny/babysitter who they can pay less. The middle class cannot afford to buy in Arlington, cannot afford daycare centers and make a number of other sacrifices that you don't have to make because you are not middle class. You may not be rich, but you are affluent, e.g. above upper middle class. In Arlington, the middle class is around $75K to $150K, so upper middle class is around $125-150K. You make more money than 95% of the area, so you aren't middle of anything other than middle of the top 10% of annual incomes in your region. You spend it on luxuries so you don't have as much disposable income, but you still get to spend it on things that the true middle class cannot afford.

[Anonymous]

Just a thought. Sad that the middle class here can't access good public schools. Where I am from (in Asia) I was from a blue collar family and all the kids had access to good public schools regardless of family income as the public schools are good.

[Anonymous]

Isn't the middle class dream to have good schools and live in a safe place? When did that only become upper middle class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just a thought. Sad that the middle class here can't access good public schools. Where I am from (in Asia) I was from a blue collar family and all the kids had access to good public schools regardless of family income as the public schools are good.

Here's a hint - good public schools is really code word for schools with predominantly high SES students. The school/teachers/curriculum are not what is making the schools good, it's the students. So unless your child is in a school with legitimate safety issues (which really is not an issue in any FCPS, MoCo, APS, or ACPS school), the education she receives will not be much different from school to school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you bring up 1.5M in a thread discussing 200k/300k. They are not even the same order of magnitude.

People in this area making 200k to 300k is living middle class type life styles. That's reality.

No, it's your skewed perception of reality. 200-300K seems like "middle class" compared to the 1.5M earners. But, compared to the 90K median in DC, 250K sure does not seem "middle class."

The only one with a perception problem is you, using "seems like" as part of your argument.

What I'm talking about is reality. 200k to 300k leads to a middle-class type lifestyle in the DC area. That's reality, regardless of what it may "seem" to you.

200-300K in DC is not middle-class in DC. The type of lifestyle you choose to live is up to you, but income wise, that is not even closely middle or median. It's closer to the 1% than the 50% in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read all 14 pages. (Isn't that pathetic?) Majority of DCUM has lost touch with reality even in DC. Take a drive down Benning Rd NE or Minnesota Ave (if you know where they are) both in DC. Then come back and tell us that your 200K income is middle class in Washington DC.

+1

Right... because there are poor people in the area, that means your middle class life style isn't middle class.

What kind of stupid logic is that?

And why would you +1 that garbage?

As some PPs have stated, you may be living a middle class life style but your income is not middle class.

I don't get it. What is "middle class" if not a lifestyle? If you live in a modest home and send your kids to public school and drive a Hyundai and save for retirement and college and don't expect to ever live off your "wealth," what are you? Housing, child care, and student loans eat up an enormous amount of money. I think it's BS to say that someone living in a 4,000 sq. ft new house on two acres outside of Houston and driving two new European cars on a $150K salary is 'middle class' but someone living in a 1,500 sq ft 60-year-old Cape on 1/5 acre in south Arlington and driving two Hondas on $300K is 'upper class.'

We're doing this on 90k. What are you doing wrong?

So your mortgage is $4000 with a takehome of $7500 before taxes? How do you do that on $90k?

Different PP here. The point is that while you live a middle class lifestyle that is only because you have chosen to commit a large part of your income to luxuries. You can do the same in a house with a $2000 mortgage, but you choose to live in an area where the housing prices are higher, probably because of a strong public school system. That is a luxury, one that the true middle class cannot afford. You chose more expensive child care because you had the means to do so, that's a luxury. Most true middle class cannot afford an expensive nanny or daycare center. If they don't have extended family to watch their children, they choose a less expensive in-home daycare or perhaps a non-resident nanny/babysitter who they can pay less. The middle class cannot afford to buy in Arlington, cannot afford daycare centers and make a number of other sacrifices that you don't have to make because you are not middle class. You may not be rich, but you are affluent, e.g. above upper middle class. In Arlington, the middle class is around $75K to $150K, so upper middle class is around $125-150K. You make more money than 95% of the area, so you aren't middle of anything other than middle of the top 10% of annual incomes in your region. You spend it on luxuries so you don't have as much disposable income, but you still get to spend it on things that the true middle class cannot afford.

So decent schools, not commuting for hours per day, and legal childcare (non-resident, so basically middle class is bartering on the black market?) are only the provinces of the "upper middle class".

if that doesn't roil you, you aren't paying attention.

but to afford a lifestyle of a functional house, with less than an hour roundtrip commute, with schools that can offer differentiation for all student levels, and legal childcare, you need at least $200k.

curious about the $90k poster? do you sahm and your dh does extreme commute?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read all 14 pages. (Isn't that pathetic?) Majority of DCUM has lost touch with reality even in DC. Take a drive down Benning Rd NE or Minnesota Ave (if you know where they are) both in DC. Then come back and tell us that your 200K income is middle class in Washington DC.

+1

Right... because there are poor people in the area, that means your middle class life style isn't middle class.

What kind of stupid logic is that?

And why would you +1 that garbage?

As some PPs have stated, you may be living a middle class life style but your income is not middle class.

I don't get it. What is "middle class" if not a lifestyle? If you live in a modest home and send your kids to public school and drive a Hyundai and save for retirement and college and don't expect to ever live off your "wealth," what are you? Housing, child care, and student loans eat up an enormous amount of money. I think it's BS to say that someone living in a 4,000 sq. ft new house on two acres outside of Houston and driving two new European cars on a $150K salary is 'middle class' but someone living in a 1,500 sq ft 60-year-old Cape on 1/5 acre in south Arlington and driving two Hondas on $300K is 'upper class.'

Well then, I guess Warren Buffett is middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We make just over 200k and have for maybe 2-3 years. Our nanny has a far better claim to a middle class existence than we do. The simple fact that we can live in a nice home, nice area, and provide someone else's livelihood while still maxing retirement (46k) and putting money (16k) Toward college savings should disqualify us from the middle class. We will probably have around 4-5M by 60-65. In no way do I consider that a reasonable outcome for "middle class".

I was a free lunch kid at times and have lived in several different places. This area is just full of out of touch, entitled people with no perspective or empathy.

Every single one of these threads just get ridiculous - "after I spend lots of money and save lots of money, I don't have anything left". Duh.

How do you save 46k per year in retirement funds with an income of 200k, while also paying 40-50k for a nanny and saving 16k? I don't understand what you are living on after all that plus taxes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read all 14 pages. (Isn't that pathetic?) Majority of DCUM has lost touch with reality even in DC. Take a drive down Benning Rd NE or Minnesota Ave (if you know where they are) both in DC. Then come back and tell us that your 200K income is middle class in Washington DC.

+1

Right... because there are poor people in the area, that means your middle class life style isn't middle class.

What kind of stupid logic is that?

And why would you +1 that garbage?

As some PPs have stated, you may be living a middle class life style but your income is not middle class.

I don't get it. What is "middle class" if not a lifestyle? If you live in a modest home and send your kids to public school and drive a Hyundai and save for retirement and college and don't expect to ever live off your "wealth," what are you? Housing, child care, and student loans eat up an enormous amount of money. I think it's BS to say that someone living in a 4,000 sq. ft new house on two acres outside of Houston and driving two new European cars on a $150K salary is 'middle class' but someone living in a 1,500 sq ft 60-year-old Cape on 1/5 acre in south Arlington and driving two Hondas on $300K is 'upper class.'

We're doing this on 90k. What are you doing wrong?

So your mortgage is $4000 with a takehome of $7500 before taxes? How do you do that on $90k?

Ah. So apparently our definition of a "modest home" is different than yours!

[Anonymous]

A HHI of $250,000 puts you in the top FIVE percent of households in the DC metro area. You all really need to get over yourselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read all 14 pages. (Isn't that pathetic?) Majority of DCUM has lost touch with reality even in DC. Take a drive down Benning Rd NE or Minnesota Ave (if you know where they are) both in DC. Then come back and tell us that your 200K income is middle class in Washington DC.

+1

Right... because there are poor people in the area, that means your middle class life style isn't middle class.

What kind of stupid logic is that?

And why would you +1 that garbage?

As some PPs have stated, you may be living a middle class life style but your income is not middle class.

I don't get it. What is "middle class" if not a lifestyle? If you live in a modest home and send your kids to public school and drive a Hyundai and save for retirement and college and don't expect to ever live off your "wealth," what are you? Housing, child care, and student loans eat up an enormous amount of money. I think it's BS to say that someone living in a 4,000 sq. ft new house on two acres outside of Houston and driving two new European cars on a $150K salary is 'middle class' but someone living in a 1,500 sq ft 60-year-old Cape on 1/5 acre in south Arlington and driving two Hondas on $300K is 'upper class.'

We're doing this on 90k. What are you doing wrong?

So your mortgage is $4000 with a takehome of $7500 before taxes? How do you do that on $90k?

Different PP here. The point is that while you live a middle class lifestyle that is only because you have chosen to commit a large part of your income to luxuries. You can do the same in a house with a $2000 mortgage, but you choose to live in an area where the housing prices are higher, probably because of a strong public school system. That is a luxury, one that the true middle class cannot afford. You chose more expensive child care because you had the means to do so, that's a luxury. Most true middle class cannot afford an expensive nanny or daycare center. If they don't have extended family to watch their children, they choose a less expensive in-home daycare or perhaps a non-resident nanny/babysitter who they can pay less. The middle class cannot afford to buy in Arlington, cannot afford daycare centers and make a number of other sacrifices that you don't have to make because you are not middle class. You may not be rich, but you are affluent, e.g. above upper middle class. In Arlington, the middle class is around $75K to $150K, so upper middle class is around $125-150K. You make more money than 95% of the area, so you aren't middle of anything other than middle of the top 10% of annual incomes in your region. You spend it on luxuries so you don't have as much disposable income, but you still get to spend it on things that the true middle class cannot afford.

Did you read my post? I said I live in a small, old house on a tiny lot and drive older, cheaper cars. Other people, who make what you consider a middle class salary but live in a place with a lower cost of living, can actually afford many luxuries that people living around DC cannot, including much better housing. I'm not saying I'm scraping by. But our standard of living is not really better -- unless you are seriously arguing that living in Arlington is in and of itself a "luxury" -- than what people would consider "middle class."

Again, the daycare example--just because it costs more here doesn't mean its better. The center-based daycare in an old church basement that my kids went to here costs almost twice as much as the one my in-laws send their kids to, which is in a brand-new building. I have to spend way more of my income to get the same thing that people in other parts of the country get for half the price. If I make more money than someone who meets your definition of middle class, but I have to pay more for housing, day care, gas, food etc because of where I live so I end up in the same place, why am I "upper class" and they are "middle class"?